Low fat high raw vs higher fat ALL raw

[RawGirl4Health]

Hi all, I am still confused on this issue. I have read many books on raw, veganism, low fat, higher fat, etc... which all seem to really contradict one another! Its making me crazy to be honest! lol...

When i started out raw over a year ago, i felt/looked amazing, but i have to admit that i was occasionally cheating on the weekends, and taking my enzyme supplements. I didn't worry too much about fat %-ages, just aimed to do raw most of the time, i kept it simple.

then, i read 80/10/10, and recall Dr. Graham saying that if your faced w/ eating a high fat meal vs a cooked low fat meal, to go for the cooked low fat meal. This statement has totally confused me. Then, many other books discuss not worrying about counting anything, and eating whatever one wants to their hearts content, as long as its raw.

I know for myself, if i eat too much fat in the middle of the day, it does make me a bit sluggish. However, eating all fruit and veggies is difficult for me especially in the winter months.. and somewhat unsatisfying, as i really love a good avocado or a nut dip here and there.. and i would venture to guess that the lipase in raw fats is good for us, rather then bad for us.. opposed to oils/cooked fats. I have even read how lipase can melt away our own fat stores, essentially.

Unfortunately, i have gained back a few lbs this winter, have been eating maybe 50% raw but am not feeling so great.. and really want to kick off the spring on a good note. But, im so crazy reading so many contradictory books!! I normally like to educate myself, but i am really losing it over this issue. It leads me to get stressed, and I wind up eating cooked foods that are no good for me.

Can anyone help guide me in the right direction? I am not really up on Gabriel Cousins, but it sounds reasonable (fruit in the morning, greens at lunch and fats in the evening).. does anyone have experience with this regimen? Any advice/help is greatly appreciated :)

:wuv

[Eva]

I eat how my body is asking. If I feel sluggish, I need less fat. If I crave avocados, olive oil, coconuts, almonds, fruit, greens, whatever... I eat it.

I find that I go through phases of lower and higher fat and that as long as I pay attention to the response of my body, I'm good.

The reason they are so contradictory, is b/c our bodies are similar in many ways but also very different in others. So a lot of folks get the hair-brained idea that b/c they do things a certain way it is the Right Way, when really it's the right way for them and some others. But likely not everyone.

If find Alissa Cohen, Ani Phyo, and Victoria Boutenko to be quite open to living in the real world, being smart about it, and staying raw without a lot of Eat This Exact Way Like I Do dogma. It's quite refreshing, actually.

:)

[Revvell]

The reason I'm on this site and have been for awhile is because Alissa's way of going about it is, to me, the easiest and best ~ ".... eat whatever you want as long as it's raw..." and I'll add... "and allow your body to choose what's best as it adjusts."

[dime]

Agreed with the above suggestions, and I would add: try to balance it out. Going into extremes (high this, high that) is usually not a good idea. I myself usually eat similar amounts of carbs and fat (I guess something like 45/45/10) and it's working fine, at least for me.

[appifanie]

I find that I go through phases of lower and higher fat and that as long as I pay attention to the response of my body, I'm good.


totally. also, ratios are so hard to stick to, and stressful! eat what you want, see how you feel, adjust. or don't.

[Psychalone]

Hi all, I am still confused on this issue. I have read many books on raw, veganism, low fat, higher fat, etc... which all seem to really contradict one another! Its making me crazy to be honest! lol...

When i started out raw over a year ago, i felt/looked amazing, but i have to admit that i was occasionally cheating on the weekends, and taking my enzyme supplements. I didn't worry too much about fat %-ages, just aimed to do raw most of the time, i kept it simple.

then, i read 80/10/10, and recall Dr. Graham saying that if your faced w/ eating a high fat meal vs a cooked low fat meal, to go for the cooked low fat meal. This statement has totally confused me. Then, many other books discuss not worrying about counting anything, and eating whatever one wants to their hearts content, as long as its raw.

I know for myself, if i eat too much fat in the middle of the day, it does make me a bit sluggish. However, eating all fruit and veggies is difficult for me especially in the winter months.. and somewhat unsatisfying, as i really love a good avocado or a nut dip here and there.. and i would venture to guess that the lipase in raw fats is good for us, rather then bad for us.. opposed to oils/cooked fats. I have even read how lipase can melt away our own fat stores, essentially.

Unfortunately, i have gained back a few lbs this winter, have been eating maybe 50% raw but am not feeling so great.. and really want to kick off the spring on a good note. But, im so crazy reading so many contradictory books!! I normally like to educate myself, but i am really losing it over this issue. It leads me to get stressed, and I wind up eating cooked foods that are no good for me.

Can anyone help guide me in the right direction? I am not really up on Gabriel Cousins, but it sounds reasonable (fruit in the morning, greens at lunch and fats in the evening).. does anyone have experience with this regimen? Any advice/help is greatly appreciated :)

:wuv

What Dr Graham outlines is an ideal. Yes the ideal diet is fruits and greens, however, what he doesn't seem to mention or address is transition. MOst people cannot handle the stress of transition if it's hastey, there are alot of things (not just physical) that happen when one transitions to such a diet and people have to know how to cope and adapt. Even Arnold Erhet who advocates the ideal diet of mankind as just fruit, advocated a "transition diet". You may want to look into his book the "Muscusless diet healing system" and "rational fasting". I have both as "ebook" if you're interested I could put them on a blog for free download.

Anyway the point is that you shouldn't worry about reaching the ideal at THIS point, right now just try to focus on transitioning and adapting. If you're going for low fat then only eat fat it when you crave it, but take note of how much you eat(without stopping yourself, so as to properly gauge) and then slowly lower the amount. Or you could go low fat vegan and simply supplement with enzymes while transitioning to 100% raw. Honestly it's your choice. The reason Dr Graham suggests low fat cooked over raw fat is because when you stick to low fat, whether cooked or not, you condition your body to use carbs as the fuel source. Then when it needs energy it will crave carbs and fat will essentially be out of the picture. However you're correct that as long as enough lipase is present you will not get fat. I did an experiement when I was younger where I ate around 4000cals a day and about 500g of raw saturated fat a day for 2 weeks. I was trying to gain weight but I ended up LOSING 5lbs over those 2 weeks, so no you won't gain wieght as long as the lipase is there. That isn't to say that it's the best source of energy, but if weight is your only concern then don't let it bother you.

Personally though, I wouldn't use oil. It's not natural when it's isolated like that, just like raw proetin powders or any of that. Nature takes care of her kin. Eat from the table of nature and you will be well, eat from the table of man and you will be sick.

All that being said, a few things to watch out for:
1.) Unripe fruit. This is HUGE because much of the way fruit is harvested is not to our benefit. Buy local (even if it's not organic), it's better because it's picked when it's ripe (rather than unripe across seas/states). UNripe fruit is one of the main reasons most people don't handle fruits well and why fruitarians fail. The nutritional profile of fruit still ripened on the mother plant is much higher than an organic fruit picked too early. ALso more life energy is left on the plant longer. Find some local farmers markets if you can.

2.) Too much plant fiber. Cellulose cannot be broken down in the body and thus can be rather rough on the system, causing gas, bloating etc. MOst times people are pretty good with it so you probably won't have to worry, but have an active enzyme supplement ready just in case (make sure it has cellulase). If you go low fat then focus on RIPE, LOCAL fruits or on sprouts (cellulose doesn't develop until later in the plants development so sprouts are okay in that regard)

3.) Undereating. Fat is a concentrated energy source. Usually when we crave fat it's telling us that we need a high concentration of energy. If we eat enough fruit/sprouts then we shouldn't crave fat (unless of course it's an emotional craving or the body needs extra lubrication due to abrasive plant fiber in the digestive tract). Thus if we undereat fruit or ignore our desire for food we'll end up craving a more concentrated source of energy to make up for what we've been dneying ourselves. Remember when you're eating fruit/sprouts eat until satisfied and don't limit yourself. You'll NEVER get fat on fruit and sprouts, it's nearly impossible, so when you crave it, it means your body needs energy for healing.

4.) Exercise. When you start going low fat raw vegan your energy skyrockets (At least mine did). It's good to have an outlet. Exercise is a great healthy way to burn energy and increase your vitality. I personally also use music as an outlet, and also creative writing and other projects (including making D&D campaigns and playing strategy games like chess, Axis and Allies and other challanging mind games). WIth all this freed up energy now you have to APPLY yourself. Utilize your new potential and starting living. Remember you eat to live, so what do you live for? Now's a good time to answer that question ;)

5.) SUnlight, vitamin D. Sunlight has SO many benefits it's really so underrated. Sunlight, I've found, is the key to keeping the nerves and mind strong. I've found that when I don't get enough sunlight I crave food much more (for emotional reasons) and I worry and stress more. When comfort food is being eliminated the Sun can be your friend and listen to all you proplems and give you warm hugs and feed your brain (and pinneal gland) and shower you with unconditional love. ALl poetic metaphors aside look up the science, the sun is definately an ally in this journey.

Anyway, hope you find your answer. Books are great to stimulate ideas but TRUTH is not found in books. Rather it is found in life, in experience.

EDIT: Also Idk if you've ever read the "Warrior Diet" by Ori Hofmekler, he talks about putting emphasis on the TIMING of meals. He recommends phases of undereating and overeating. SO during the day he'd say focus on exercise and eat only raw foods like fruits and at night eat the cooked stuff and the fats. The basic idea was to remain high stress during the day and eat the "sedative" foods at night. SO if you were to pick eating raw fats, save them for dinner. If you were to picked cooked vegan, then save cooked foods for dinner. I used that with a vegetarian diet when I was younger and it worked almost as well as the raw vegetarian diet. Perhaps you may want to try this approach as well. BEST OF LUCK! XD

[modernmonkey]

I'm too much in pursuit of the ideal to recommend you eat whatever you want as long as it's raw. But I would say, the more you read around and try stuff out, the easier it gets to form and then cement your beliefs.

[RawGirl4Health]

Thank you Thank you Thank you!!!!! All of your posts are so wonderful, the author suggestions and such - totally appreciated! :heart

I have to give a very big thank you and shout out especially to you, Psychalone, Wow! you know your stuff! I think I read about your raw experiment prior on these forums, perhaps. I am impressed and also shocked that you would do such an experiment on yourself! But, its those kinds of testaments that I find almost more reliable then the studies i read about in books.

I love the science of all of this, and I feel like im getting more and more intelligent, and the raw diet has given me many gifts. It has greatly reduced my anxiety, which was extremely problematic all of my life. I suppose its my inner perfectionist which is seeking this "perfect" raw diet/ratios/quantities but I know that is going to be difficult and limiting. My energy and emotional state alone are so worth figuring it out, and finding my way through this kind of sticky transitional time.

See - i used to work from home for the past year or so, so i never had to worry about anything - eat on demand, bathroom on demand, sunny day? walk on demand... etc etc... now, i have had to join corp america, and while i love the challenge of my new job (love how you mentioned finding a channel for my new found energy- my job is very demanding and perfect way to expend my energy) ... So, there are a several other things that i am in transitional mode with as well, I think it all just collided at once. Anyhow, enough therapizing about myself...

I really feel my diet and mood are truly linked. I have been bad this weekend, eating bagel, potatoes/homefries (fatty, starchy, icky for me) and my oh my, talk about heartburn, emotions all over the place, etc.

But tonight, i made a big bowl of raw banana /strawberry raw ice cream (just fruit plus a little raw honey and ice) and bam! I am in a wonderful mood! lol. So, it is very interesting to me how rapid my mood is to respond to my diet.

I read something that frustrated me SO much. I have to find the link but a quack detective was discussing how diet and disease are not related. It really frustrated me, especially when everyone knows that is not true, and that diet and disease are related. Well, at least that is my feeling. I hope that I can stick to a nice version of raw living, i love not having to consume animals anymore, i love eating and feeling light, and someday/year soon, i want to have a baby and a raw pregnancy hopefully, if i have the willpower and courage!

So thanks again to everyone for these terrific, supportive responses. I need to find some local raw friends - i think that would make a ton of difference. My hubby has taken the plunge now too, and tonight, he surprised me with my own copy of 80/10/10 so that i could refer to it whenver i want. What a sweetie pie!!!

Cheers to a great week everyone!
:D
:heart:

[sport]

I can only say that on a high fat 100% raw diet I developed arthritis and my cholesterol was off the scale. After one year of low fat, my arthritis is gone and my cholesterol is back within normal levels.
If I had to choose between the 2 options listed in the title I would stick with the low fat high raw but I do not have to make that choice. I choose to be low fat 100% raw.

[modernmonkey]

Just wanted to add, that few would actually endorse high fat raw. It is just when gourmet raw or anything-as-much-as-you-like is on offer, the new or uninformed may levitate towards fat more, because it is closer to the taste and texture of SAD.

[LilMsBliss]

Just wanted to add, that few would actually endorse high fat raw. It is just when gourmet raw or anything-as-much-as-you-like is on offer, the new or uninformed may levitate towards fat more, because it is closer to the taste and texture of SAD.

Great point!

[RawGirl4Health]

Hi all - when i say high fat, for me its between 10 and 30% of my total calories. I don't normally have it at more then 1 meal, perhaps a little snack. Today, for example, was pretty high fat, but i am still just over 25%.

So just wanted to clarify. And, i have already lost a few lbs, eating around 20% fat the past few days. Feeling good!

[laura-jane]

I eat how my body is asking. If I feel sluggish, I need less fat. If I crave avocados, olive oil, coconuts, almonds, fruit, greens, whatever... I eat it.

I find that I go through phases of lower and higher fat and that as long as I pay attention to the response of my body, I'm good.



Me too. Exactly!

[dime]

Hi all - when i say high fat, for me its between 10 and 30% of my total calories. I don't normally have it at more then 1 meal, perhaps a little snack. Today, for example, was pretty high fat, but i am still just over 25%.

That's definitely not high-fat :)

[Raw Angel Mom]

You got good advice and i am all for listening to your body. For me, i tend to eat low fat diet because i am in the mood for it but at time, i eat so much fat and i just go for it. I just try to follow my body's need.

I hear you about your body having a link with your emotions, now that you are aware of this, you can have a plan when you don't feel so good. Whatever you choose to cope with your emotions, please don't go into guilt neither with excuse to eat cook food etc... but do it from a responsible place. IF your spirit has enought and want to feel alive through your body, then choose to go for walk, take deep breath or do gentle exercise. This release the stress and bring a well being with your emotions. Even uplifting music, buying nice flower for yourself, whatever enrich your spirit.

You are phenomenal and you are doing so great, beleive in your power for you are this powerful girl.

You will find what works for you and please take in leave with the % of fat. Go with where your body needs to be.

All is well!

[mcster]

I eat how my body is asking. If I feel sluggish, I need less fat. If I crave avocados, olive oil, coconuts, almonds, fruit, greens, whatever... I eat it.

I find that I go through phases of lower and higher fat and that as long as I pay attention to the response of my body, I'm good.

The reason they are so contradictory, is b/c our bodies are similar in many ways but also very different in others. So a lot of folks get the hair-brained idea that b/c they do things a certain way it is the Right Way, when really it's the right way for them and some others. But likely not everyone.

If find Alissa Cohen, Ani Phyo, and Victoria Boutenko to be quite open to living in the real world, being smart about it, and staying raw without a lot of Eat This Exact Way Like I Do dogma. It's quite refreshing, actually.

:)

+1. This is an individual journey. Do your homework, experiment and then do what works for you. Take the good and leave the bad. I'm at a point where I don't even want to refer to my diet as RAW even though I'm 100%. Theres no need for labels or dogma (and there is a lot of dogmatic people around raw!). I ate trail mix that had roasted almonds the other day. Does that mean I'm no longer 100% raw? :rolleyes:


Hi all - when i say high fat, for me its between 10 and 30% of my total calories. I don't normally have it at more then 1 meal, perhaps a little snack. Today, for example, was pretty high fat, but i am still just over 25%.

So just wanted to clarify. And, i have already lost a few lbs, eating around 20% fat the past few days. Feeling good!

That's not high fat. You may also want to consider your caloric needs. If you do a lot of exercise, it gets tough getting all your calories from greens. I do intense exercise 1hr x 4 days/week and would be hungry all the time if I didn't eat the amount of fat I do. And like you, I eat maybe 20-30%. Eating healthy fats has helped me burn off fat. I'm currently down to 10-12% body fat from around 23% pre raw (I'm a guy) and I've put on a lot of muscle in just three months. My body has literally transformed. Again, your body is your laboratory. Research, experiment and keep doing what works for you. The most important idea for me personally has been...eat mostly from the produce section.

[RawGirl4Health]

Thanks so much again for the great advice everyone! Sorry for the delay in responding (darn new schedule). Want to report that my hubby has been SO amazing in this journey. He is big into the 8/1/1, and he is also a P90X'er. He is doing fantastic. And, it is such a great change and motivator for myself, b/c i was the one who started this journey, and he joined in on his own (i did not force him, rather led by example).

Finally settling into the new schedule, and i try to calculate my averages daily, and figure the numbers out. I started a week ago, and my numbers for last week (despite eating apx 3 semi-cooked meals out / at friends house) my ratios were really good for the week: 84% carbs / 6.5% fat / 8.9% protein. Now, these #'s are not exact (some days i had to guess b/c i didn't prepare the food) so im venturing to say that i am probably closer to 8/1/1 and I thought i really blew it, haha ! I love tracking, b/c i am a number cruncher and like to see hard facts in front of me.

As for the 3 - 4 meals i ate that were cooked/out - i kept them as vegan as possible, as low fat as possible (i have to admit, i had ... gasp... ice cream for the first time in a VERY long time w/ an old friend, (w/ my enzymes of course) and i admit that i think i actually prefer the taste of my banana cocoa nibs + cherry ice cream that i eat all the time to my old favorite of pistachio w/ hot fudge and chocolate sprinkles, lol). One meal was at a friends who my husband told that I was vegan, so they really bent over backwards making lightly grilled portabella mushrooms, a fabulous rice and salad (not too bad), second meal was at an Indian restaurant where i had this amazing rice crepe w/ potatoes inside and a vegan veggie sauce, and the third meal was on friday night (my normal evening for a little "cheating" after a long work week) which was gluten free pasta w/ a ton of steamed veggies and some bread and olive oil at a favorite italian rest. nearby. Despite those meals, still down 2lbs, still feeling great.

I used to weigh myself daily, which was making me bi-polar. I like weighing in weekly, and also calculating my totals weekly, allows me to better see the big picture. After all - isn't it about the overall picture that sums up our health anyhow? Some days we lean more one way only to make up for it the rest of the week - so i like thinking this way, its refreshing. The rest of my week was almost all fruits, smoothies or very simple salads.

My goals for the upcoming week - to eat 8/1/1, to eat less dried fruits (i can get addicted so i portion out my servings that i bring to work), to do a 1 day fresh juice fast at some point, to drink little or NO alcohol (i had a very bad reaction friday night w/ some wine... i had been eating very clean for several days, and then i had a really bad reaction and though i was going to faint after some white wine... my hands swelled up, my heart was palpitating and i was super dizzy... it was scary! I used to be able to handle some alcohol but i think that i have a magnesium deficiency b/c once i took a supp i was back to normal)...

Anyhow that is it for now.... hope you don't mind my random update b/c it really helps me keep on track as well as get some good feedback here .. which i find invaluable. Its great to be among friends of a like mind, and to feel like im in a place that is supportive!

I'll keep you updated :) Meanwhile, love to you all and have a great week! :heart: