water fast and wrinkles

[joyce09]

Will a 21-day water fast cause facial wrinkles because of the weight loss (presumably of about 10 pounds) for a person of normal weight, when preceded and followed by all-raw eating? Does anyone have knowledge or personal experience of this? Thanks in advance for replies.

[dime]

10 pounds? You'll lose a lot more than that! 21-day water fast is not a joke.

I have done 7-day master cleanse, followed by 7-day water fast and lost 10kg (I guess that's 20 pounds?). And I'm quite skinny for my height, I was 78kg at 190cm before the fast and dropped to 67kg at the end.

So be careful with water fasting, if you don't have a lot of fat on you your muscles and organs will suffer, especially if you overdo it.

[joyce09]

10 pounds? You'll lose a lot more than that! 21-day water fast is not a joke.

I have done 7-day master cleanse, followed by 7-day water fast and lost 10kg (I guess that's 20 pounds?). And I'm quite skinny for my height, I was 78kg at 190cm before the fast and dropped to 67kg at the end.

So be careful with water fasting, if you don't have a lot of fat on you your muscles and organs will suffer, especially if you overdo it.

Did not some of your lost 10kg come back right after you ended your fast? Then that recovered weight was not really lost. It was just temporary water weight loss. I am talking about real weight loss.

[Aleesha Sattva]

i can't imagine that you'll have wrinkles... guess you'll just have to give it a try and see.

and on a water fast... you usually release about 10 pounds in the first week (if not sooner)

[dime]

Did not some of your lost 10kg come back right after you ended your fast? Then that recovered weight was not really lost. It was just temporary water weight loss. I am talking about real weight loss.

Not really, it's been two months since then and I've added only 2kg so far. But I'm almost back to my initial strength, so I think it wasn't that much muscle lost but mostly fat. At the end I was really ripped, like every little muscle was visible, so I thought it doesn't make much sense to go on with the fast.

I don't think you can simply lose 10% of your weight as water if you're properly hydrating. It's a water fast, no external nutrients come in so the body must take from what it can use -- fat deposits and muscle tissue.

[Aleesha Sattva]

it takes a long time for your body to take from your muscle tissue dime. it takes nutrients and energy from old cells, tumours, dead tissue... fat obviously... long before it goes for muscle mass.

[Aleesha Sattva]

some really great info in this thread for you both to read

http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showthread.php?t=62026

[dime]

it takes a long time for your body to take from your muscle tissue dime. it takes nutrients and energy from old cells, tumours, dead tissue... fat obviously... long before it goes for muscle mass.

I'm not sure how 'nutritious' are these old/dead cells and tumors. It takes a few days in the beginning until you start utilizing fat, during which time protein is used from the muscles quite a bit. Later on it's used just a bit per day for maintenance.

[dime]

From the referenced thread

Although protein is being utilized, a person fasting 40 days on water will not suffer a deficiency of either protein, vitamins, minerals or fatty acids. In the breakdown of dying and diseased cells, all essential substances are available while fasting for reuse within the body.
This breakdown of dying and diseased cells happens all the time in the body not just when fasting. Yet we still need to have certain amounts of vitamins, minerals, etc. daily in our food.

Thus I wouldn't agree we have all essential substances while fasting. And I wouldn't agree anyone can do 40 days of water fasting without consequences, because "all the essential stuff is available in the body". If I would try myself, with 10% fat I'll be either dead by the 40th day or end up with some serious problems and will need years to recover.

[dime]

Btw, joyce09, why do you want to do such a long fast? I hope it's not just for fun :) Do a lot of research about it first, the wrinkles is the last thing I would worry about. Your skin will losen up a bit, but shouldn't be too noticable, at least it wasn't for me. Maybe it depends on age, no idea.

[Aleesha Sattva]

dime you are welcome to your thoughts and opinions... doesn't mean i agree with them ;)

[dime]

It would be much better if you wrote what and why you don't agree with.

Here's a bit different view on water fasting (full interview here http://drbass.com/aajonus.html)

Many of our members are Natural Hygienists and have chosen to eat a vegetarian (vegan and raw primarily) diet. Many fast on occasion to allow their body to eliminate the toxic condition from daily stress. How do you view this practice of fasting and what experiences or data could you share with us on these views?

I have completed approximately 75 fasts from 1969-1981 of various lengths -- many 1-day-a-week fasts, several 5-day, 10-day and 15-day fasts. One 31-day fast and one 41-day fast. During 60% of them I drank water only with no cheating ever. During 40% I drank all or some of my urine and a little water.
During the 41-day fast I drank all of my urine and a little water. Each one, including 1-day fasts was difficult. The easier of the long-term fasts was the 41-day drinking urine because of the nutrients in the urine. Urine is the blood with most of the red blood cells removed and a little ammonium added by the kidneys. During the 41-day fast (I should call it a urine feast) I lost the least amount of weight and energy, had the fewest headaches and had better disposition but my breath was atrocious all of the time.
The 31-day fast on water only I did at age 27. It took me 2 1/2 years to regain my equilibrium. The last intellectually motivated fast I did at age 33 - the 41-day urine fast. It took me 1 1/2 years to regain my strength.
I found that fasting longer than 3 days was impossible without daily enemas to dilute the toxins in the bowels. Enemas destroyed the bacteria that is the major constituent of feces but so did the toxicity from fasting. I had constant headaches, depression, anxiety and nausea without enemas.
I stopped fasting when I realized that the side effects of forced-fasting were greater than the benefits. The benefit of ketosis, cellular cannibalism, which usually occurs within 12 hours of fasting is that it reduces the overpopulation of sluggish cells, leaving the stronger cells and those that overproduce prostaglandins. This is a process of mass genocide via cannibalism. The deleterious effects are that blood maintains a higher acid ratio weakening and damaging red blood cells and their ability to transport oxygen.
If fasting continues beyond 2 days severe blood-fat deficiency occurs. The body leeches fats from the lymph system and cells to maintain it. This fat- leeching weakens the immune system.
Another deleterious effect of fasting is that the necessary bacteria level in the intestines diminishes. Since 60-90% of fecal matter is born of bacteria, constipation results and severely diminishes bacterial synthesis of B vitamins and amino acids. This further weakens and diminishes the immune system.
Another side effect from fasts, resulting from blood-fat end lymph deficiencies is that many toxins from either industrial pollution or natural by-products of metabolism are freed. They irritate, burn and often imbed in the stronger cells, therefore weakening them. Fat, especially in lymph, usually binds with toxins and either neutralizes or escorts them out of the body through the mucus mem- branes, skin or bowels. If great collections of these toxins occur during fasting, kidney damage results. These side-effects usually create edema, especially when eating is resumed. The body often tries to dilute the toxins when it does not have enough fat to chelate and remove them. Mutations some-times result.

My conclusion after 13 years experience and research with intellectually motivated fasts is that fasts are often more deleterious than helpful. They may have their place, but I won t gamble with people's lives using fasts as therapy.
When certain situations are favorable and if an individual has no appetite, I may suggest that they fast until hungry. However, if the individual is anorexic, I do not suggest that they fast.
I have replaced fasts with a formula of raw vegetable juices (rarely fruit juices) and raw eggs. This supplies the nutrients to form solvents to remove toxicity and the fats necessary to eliminate them from the body. It is not as dramatic an experience, but it works well, and more people are able to do it and still function.


You say that fasting weakens the immune system, but Shelton and others noticed just the opposite - that colds/flus/infections in progress would cease within a few days of starting a fast, and that new ones would never occur.

Concluding that because colds and flus often cease during fasts does not mean that health is improved. It has been my experience that colds and flus and all other diseases are detoxification. I have experienced and observed that colds and flus often ceased during fasts because the body could no longer tolerate such major detoxification. Some detoxification continued to occur during fasts, however it was mainly the tremendous toxicity from the body cannibalism (acidosis). Weaker cells are consumed to feed healthier cells. Fasts force the survival-of-the-fittest reality as in most starved species. This in consequence creates a somewhat healthier body because it eliminates so many weaker and decaying cells.
In most circumstances, because the body usually requires much time and nutrients, especially fats and proteins, to detoxify and recover from fasts and because most people do not eat diets that provide proper nutrients, people lack the nutrients necessary to ideally enter regular major detoxification like colds and flus. Especially in our toxic environment bodies need major detoxification regularly.

[Aleesha Sattva]

dime it's been my experience - because i too do a lot of research (after all research is my life LOL)... that you can find pros and cons and many varied opinions on EVERYTHING. there are people who say a raw food diet is detrimental to your health... now this guy says fasting is.

i don't agree. i've experienced it and i disagree. the research i've done supports my beliefs and i'm okay with that.

and i'm not here to convince anyone of anything. honestly that's not my agenda at all. i simply share what i learn and believe to be true and let people make up their own minds.

but i can say... anyone who wants to drink their own urine for 41 days and suggests that adding raw eggs to a fast is good... has zero credibility in my mind. ZERO!

[joyce09]

some really great info in this thread for you both to read

http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showthread.php?t=62026

Aleesha, thank you for the great information thread.

[joyce09]

Not really, it's been two months since then and I've added only 2kg so far. But I'm almost back to my initial strength, so I think it wasn't that much muscle lost but mostly fat. At the end I was really ripped, like every little muscle was visible, so I thought it doesn't make much sense to go on with the fast.

I don't think you can simply lose 10% of your weight as water if you're properly hydrating. It's a water fast, no external nutrients come in so the body must take from what it can use -- fat deposits and muscle tissue.

dime, thank you for sharing your experience. You indeed lost a lot of real weight. I bet a lot of toxis went out with the fat. May I ask if your diet was unhealthful before your fast?

And will you share more about the health benefits you gained from this 14-day fast?

[dime]

Unhealthy in the sense that I was eating non-raw non-vegetarian yes. I still consider it somewhat healthy because I wasn't drinking coffee, tee, sodas, etc (just plain water and milk), didn't smoke, avoided alcohol as much as possible, avoided packaged foods (so mostly freshly cooked stuff), exercised regularly, etc.

But still, the difference is huge, to the better. Although I'm not sure if it's due to the fasting or the raw lifestyle now, I'd rather think the second. For 2-3 weeks after the fast I was really weak, constipated, etc. Even now I still have orthostatic hypotension, which started while I was fasting. Other than that everything is perfect, I can say I've never been better. I've noticed I perform a lot better in aerobic stuff like running or swimming, sex life is much better, I never really feel tired (like after eating a huge meal of meat, milk, fruits and veggies all in one sitting and in the wrong order), always wake up fresh and energetic, and so on. Benefits that I'm quite sure are specifically from the fasting: I have lost quite a bit of fat (from 14% went down to 9%) and the hemorrhoids seem to be fixed as I haven't had any problems since then.

[joyce09]

dime, thank you for sharing your experience. The health benefits you have reaped are very inspiring.

[siennagray]

joyce09, have you done any type of a fast before? A water fast is a pretty extreme type of fast to start out with - especially such a long one.

I just did a 5 day water fast followed by a 6 day juice fast. I have previously done the master cleanse for as long as 20 days. This was my first time water fasting, but it was definitely a good experience. One of the main reasons I did a water fast was to starve out candida. I have battled eczema practically all my life. It is greatly reduced - like 90%. If it starts to come back instead of continues to disappear, I will definitely do another water fast for a little longer.

I had a surprise benefit from my fast that I wasn't expecting at all. I am a very emotional person, and if I cry at night, usually it makes me so congested I have to prop my head up and can barely sleep for hours because of trouble breathing. Well I cried some the other night, and afterwords - I could breathe! It was the most amazing thing.

My experience, and that of many other master cleansers on another forum, has been that if you are switching from an unhealthy diet/lifestyle pre-cleanse/fast to a healthy one afterwords, you may gain little to none of the weight back. This can be highly individual though.

Regarding the wrinkles, I have never heard anyone say that they gained facial wrinkles over a course of fasting. I would think it would be more likely to be the opposite.

I would say that on none of my fasts has it taken me any "recovery time" to reach equilibrium. I think if you approach a fast with confidence, and an open mind, wonderful things can happen. You just need to make sure to listen to your body when it tries to talk to you.

[joyce09]

Siennagray, Thank you for your encouraging words. I have been eating very healthy, all raw, with GS. But I have not seen much improvement in my health. My health is generally OK, but I have some little problems. So I am thinking of doing water fasting. My only dread is wrinkles. LOL.

[Aleesha Sattva]

well i have no wrinkles on my face. my neck has some (i'm 47)... and i fast a lot LOL

[joyce09]

well i have no wrinkles on my face. my neck has some (i'm 47)... and i fast a lot LOL

Aleesha, Surely you have no wrinkles. But I know you do juice fasts most of the time, not water fasts. Juice fast, unlike water fast, does not cause one to lose a lot of weigth in a short amount of time and so wrinkles won't appear. Juice fast did not work for me. I once did juice fast for a whole month and at the end of the month I could not discern any improvement in my health. So I am not tempted to try another month-long juice fast. I tried GS fast. Sweet GS does not improve my health. Non-sweet GS appeared to benefit my health, but I disliked non-sweet GS and could not stay with it. So water fast would be easier for me.
Thanks to all who have helped. My fear for wrinkles has been greatly relieved. Right now I am doing half-day water only and half-day raw vegetables. When I am ready, I will move to all-day water fast.

[Aleesha Sattva]

i've done water fasts too joyce... i'm doing one now. i've done a 21 day water fast a few years ago... many 3-5 day ones and a 9 or 10 day one last year...

but i do love my juices!

[joyce09]

i've done water fasts too joyce... i'm doing one now. i've done a 21 day water fast a few years ago... many 3-5 day ones and a 9 or 10 day one last year...

but i do love my juices!


Wonderful, Aleesha. Please do share your experience of the 21-day water fast, regarding wrinkles and huger pains and health benefits and all else.

[Aleesha Sattva]

it was about 2.5 years ago so i don't remember all the details but hunger doesn't exist on water fasts.

have you read that thread i linked you up with cause there's heaps of water fasting info in it.

[joyce09]

it was about 2.5 years ago so i don't remember all the details but hunger doesn't exist on water fasts.

have you read that thread i linked you up with cause there's heaps of water fasting info in it.

I have been reading it. I is a very helpful thread. But hearing a personal testimony from a person I know in the present tense is extra powerful. Thank you for all your help. :goodday:

[RighteousYogini]

10 pounds? You'll lose a lot more than that! 21-day water fast is not a joke.

I have done 7-day master cleanse, followed by 7-day water fast and lost 10kg (I guess that's 20 pounds?). And I'm quite skinny for my height, I was 78kg at 190cm before the fast and dropped to 67kg at the end.

So be careful with water fasting, if you don't have a lot of fat on you your muscles and organs will suffer, especially if you overdo it.

Holy Geez, Dime..... how did you start off on the journey? LIke... what was your progression that brought you to water fasts?

[Aleesha Sattva]

so true joyce. have you gone through the fasting section? heaps of threads in there with people water fasting.

[dime]

Holy Geez, Dime..... how did you start off on the journey? LIke... what was your progression that brought you to water fasts?

I didn't really plan it, I was doing the master cleanse, and at some point I just decided to continue with water fast. I thought since I'm already doing this fasting, let's go to the end (or to what I think was reasonable) :) Nothing really changed much with the water fast, the master cleanse is already quite close to water fast. But at least I stopped eroding my teeth with the lemon acid, they were getting freakishly white.

[joyce09]

so true joyce. have you gone through the fasting section? heaps of threads in there with people water fasting.

Excellent suggestion which I am going to adopt. Those threads will be very motivating. I will start my water fast soon.