It's all in the book girl!! - Just yelling at myself

[OnMyJourney]

This thread is solely about my recent "incident"...if we can call it that. I hear/read folks getting all up in a tizzy about certain things in the raw food lifestyle from time to time and every now and then I get caught up in it myself.

Most recent example - avocados. I :heart: avocados with a deep passion! lol BUT after reading 'here, there & everywhere" I began to worry that I'd gain weight if I continued on the path with this love affair. I had a chat with whoa-raw that helped me out immensely in this regard. (Thanks again whoa! :hug) Then, last night I was re-reading some parts of LOLF and ..."It's all in the book!" Of course it is! I read the book from cover to cover when I initially purchased it, but other than for recipes and the sprouting section...I'll admit I hadn't re-read any other parts in a while...until last night.

Right there in black and white on pages 167-170. Of course Alissa "told" me this already...but I got caught up in the hype of external discussions. It's like that activity when you line up a bunch of people and the 1st one tells the next person something and the task is to pass it along. :whisper And by the time it gets to the last person it's totally distorted. Yea...that's what happens with information regarding rawfood (and everything else) sometimes. So it was really nice to sit down "with Alissa" (ok not really her, but reading her books feels like she's sitting with me lol) and going over things again.

Just for the record, I'll park this tidbit here from LOLF:


There's a huge difference between cooked fats and raw fats. Studies linking fats to high cancer rates, heart attacks, kidney failure, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, angina, cardiovascular disease, and many other diseases have been done with cooked fats. Obesity is linked to a high, cooked fat diet.

Raw plant fats, on the other hand, have exactly the opposite effect. Raw fts, found in avocados, olives, coconuts, nuts and seeds contain antioxidants. They contain oils that produce healthy joints, nerves and bones. Raw plant fats do not cause the body to gain excess weight because, unlike cooked fats, they still contain the enzyme lipase, which is needed to digest fat. By cooking fats, lipase is destroyed, along with other important enzymes and minerals. Lipase breaks up raw plant food as it is eaten, and helps the body to digest oils in these foods. Because this food gets assimilted and digested properly, it is not causing all kinds of chronic and degenerative diseases, and it's not getting stored as excess body weight.

You will not get fat by eating avocados, olives, sprouted nuts and seeds, and other plant fats!

When I first started this diet I was eating two to three avocados a day and losing weight! I didn't have much weight to lose, but the few extra pounds just melted off, because I was eating fats in their whole, natural form with all of their enzymes intact.

Alissa goes on to share the story of her client Janice who tried to speed up her weight loss by cutting out these natural fats and how she hit a wall after losing 45 pounds. Janice started out cutting avocados..and then cutting nuts and then extended this to no desserts, nut butters, crackers, etc.


Anyway...I just posted this to tell MYSELF, "See, she told ya already!" So I have decided that I'm going to review LOLF every month just to keep my head on straight as I travel back down this path. Thank you Alissa, for taking the time to share all of this information with me/us. I promise to do a better job of keeping it in the front of my mind at all times. :heart

[Eva]

You've got it now!! We don't "learn" everything we read just from reading it one time. Sometimes we DO have to learn a lesson. It is what it is! Part of life!

BUT now you've really got it! Good for you!

:heart

[OnMyJourney]

Thank you Eva!! :hug You're so right, I've learned my lesson! I'm in the process of re-reading LOLF now and plan to purchase Alissa's newest book this evening. I'm back on the path... :woot:

[Eva]

lol! I'm seeing you all over the place in this moment. :) :) AGAIN, good for you!!!!! I would LOVE the extravagance of being able to purchase Alissa's book, but it's a lot harder from here than it was in the US. No amazon.com for me. SO, enjoy it extra for the rest of us! Especially the cheeses and ice creams!!!

[OnMyJourney]

lol! I'm seeing you all over the place in this moment. :) :) AGAIN, good for you!!!!! I would LOVE the extravagance of being able to purchase Alissa's book, but it's a lot harder from here than it was in the US. No amazon.com for me. SO, enjoy it extra for the rest of us! Especially the cheeses and ice creams!!!


I was just thinking this myself! :p I promise to enjoy the cheeses and ice creams for you, if you promise to enjoy that lovely weather for me!

[Eva]

It's a deal! :heart:

[modernmonkey]

It's great that you have found some peace with your decision to consume unlimited raw fats. But beware if you are ALSO consuming large amounts of fruit TOO. It's one or the other I'm afraid.

This article should help make sense of my drivel.

http://www.loving-it-raw.com/fruit-or-fat.html

[Eva]

It's great that you have found some peace with your decision to consume unlimited raw fats. But beware if you are ALSO consuming large amounts of fruit TOO. It's one or the other I'm afraid.

This article should help make sense of my drivel.

http://www.loving-it-raw.com/fruit-or-fat.html

I can't agree with this article. I love fruits as much as the next gal, but I crave fats when I go even 1 day without them. I find sometimes I crave 4 or 5 avocados in a day, even!! And sometimes I want less, but outright deciding to only eat "overt fats" when I'm already eating the best diet on the planet, is diet/lifestyle suicide, in my opinion.

[beckyh]

Does coconut oil count? I just can't get into avocados, I am not sure why, but I can't. I use coconut oil all the time, everyday. so does that count? I do eat avocados, but not all the time. Usually only if a recipe calls for them and then sometimes I omit them. I want to like them more but I am not sure why I don't.

[modernmonkey]

I totally understand your choices and reasoning. And would never knock those.

And comparatively your right. 5 avocados in a day is so much better than literally thousands of other people's diets. But is it optimum? Probably not, if fruits feature greatly too. I think there is a huge difference between, 'hey, look how healthily I eat!' and 'eat like me for optimum health.' The first is true with a high-fat, raw diet. The second is not. Endorsing a high-fat, raw lifestyle is perfect for someone who is already eating tons worse, because comparatively they are gonna be way better off and this option may be more successful in keeping them on track. But endorsing a high-fat, raw lifestyle to just ANYONE who wants to pursue optimum health is misleading and mis-informative in my opinion. That is not aimed at you personally btw, but at the general raw food movement that gladly endorses unlimited fats and meal/snack recipes packed with fats that will all to easily replace the nutrition found in fruit. Then to also not warn of the negatives affects of eating too much fruit with a high-fat, raw diet just makes it irresponsible too. I welcome your comments. :)

[Eva]

Does coconut oil count? I just can't get into avocados, I am not sure why, but I can't. I use coconut oil all the time, everyday. so does that count? I do eat avocados, but not all the time. Usually only if a recipe calls for them and then sometimes I omit them. I want to like them more but I am not sure why I don't.

I think it's perfectly OK to not like avocados and eat them only occasionally. If you really don't WANT them, why force them down? ha! Of course, my mom used to hate them. I tricked her into eating them so many times, that now she loves them!


I totally understand your choices and reasoning. And would never knock those.

And comparatively your right. 5 avocados in a day is so much better than literally thousands of other people's diets. But is it optimum? Probably not, if fruits feature greatly too. I think there is a huge difference between, 'hey, look how healthily I eat!' and 'eat like me for optimum health.' The first is true with a high-fat, raw diet. The second is not. Endorsing a high-fat, raw lifestyle is perfect for someone who is already eating tons worse, because comparatively they are gonna be way better off and this option may be more successful in keeping them on track. But endorsing a high-fat, raw lifestyle to just ANYONE who wants to pursue optimum health is misleading and mis-informative in my opinion. That is not aimed at you personally btw, but at the general raw food movement that gladly endorses unlimited fats and meal/snack recipes packed with fats that will all to easily replace the nutrition found in fruit. Then to also not warn of the negatives affects of eating too much fruit with a high-fat, raw diet just makes it irresponsible too. I welcome your comments. :)

See, here is the thing. One person might excel on a high-fruit, low-fat diet. And that is great. And that same person might SOMETIMES want to have more fat.

And another person might excel on a high-fat, low-fruit diet. And that is great too. That same person might SOMETIMES want to stick to a lighter diet just because it feels better, doing something like a juice feast or fruit cleanse.

The thing is, as I mentioned, SOMETIMES I crave 5 avocados. But SOMETIMES I don't want any fat at all. BUT I most definitely do NOT want to put myself in a box because I "should" do better with a low-fat diet. I'm not on a diet, I'm living life, optimally.

After 4 years of raw food, I know exactly what it is my body is craving. I eat it, and then I move on. I don't gorge myself on nuts just because I am having a tough day. If I'm eating, it's because I'm hungry. I eat and buy what appeals to me.

Just a few days ago, and until earlier today actually, I was obsessed with guavas. I really wanted them, all the time. Who knows why? But I ate a LOT of them. Today I was at the veggie shop, and I saw the guavas, and kind of thought "meh, no thanks". So, no more guavas until I want them again.

And actually, it's interesting, because I didn't have a green smoothie today because we were having a problem with the electricity at the house. A guy is fixing it, so it's all good. But, no GS. By the time 2 or 3 came around I was RAVENOUS for greens. Didn't even make the connection I hadn't had the usual smoothie. I just really was craving greens.

All this to say, reading some article about what I "should" eat because of what a few people (who do not live in MY body) say I should eat or shouldn't, is simply unreasonable.

Listening to my body, living without measurements, never counting food, always being open to my changing needs, that, to me, is reasonable.

I completely understand, on some level, your perspective! :hug It's just that, this way of living, is working very well for me. Low fat was a short-lived thing I tried, because I found myself craving fats, big time. And feeling a little light-headed, not quite right. So I have to speak up here to disagree, for myself!

[verbena]

How do you know if you are eating low fat raw? Maybe a stupid question and i know it's suppose to be no more than 10% of calories from fat a day, but what would that look like in a days intake of food? I can't really picture what 10% should look like.
I'd say that at least 60% of my diet is fruit, but i'm not sure if my fat intake is 10% or below. where i get my fat from everyday is usually 1tbsp coconut oil, about 200ml of weak hemp milk, maybe about 1.5 tbps of olive oil and occasionally half an avocado or some pumpkin or sunflower seeds. does this sound like a lot of fat?

[modernmonkey]

Thanks for sharing Eva.

I guess what you and many others are saying is, it really doesn't matter whether, high-fat, low-fat, high fruit, low fruit etc... what matters is the introduction to raw. And that introduction will lead to a natural balance eventually. I guess I have a bee in my bonnet because I want to get to optimum as quick as possible. I have read too much about newbies who eat too much fat, end up with the same old cravings and gain weight. This seems to me totally unnecessary but I guess there is a good argument that noobs must learn for themselves. I just feel that a low-fat, high fruit lifestyle could cut a lot of corners. And in a way if you go days without fat because you don't feel like it then I don't see you as having a high-fat diet. I'm concerned with the newbies hitting 40% fat a day easily, making all these high-fat recipes and eating loads of avocados ASWELL. Add a ton of fruit too? They are likely to be in with some shocks before health and energy come to them.

[Eva]

I VERY RARELY go more than a day without fat. I do eat a fair amount of fruit but it really depends. I have been very low on nuts since I got here, just because they're a little harder to source out, and I don't have my dehydrator here. (I almost never eat nuts without first soaking and dehydrating them, I find them very tough to digest unsoaked.)

Anyways, last night, all I could think about was nuts nuts nuts nuts! So I ate some, then felt better. Even so, I've been getting olive oil and coconut oil most days. But I don't have avocados much here because it's not the season. We don't just get things (in Brazil, here for the "winter") from other countries when they're not in season here.

But in the end, I'd say my diet probably averages 20-30% fat.

Now, when I FIRST went raw I was eating TONS of fat. And I made it through. On the days when I knew it was too much, I would start to crave a juice feast. One day juice feasting, then I'd be back to eating whatever because I would have cleaned and lightened up.

All that to say, either way, I don't prescribe to Dr. Graham's or other's 811 philosophies. I'm not going to count how much fat I eat. I have SEVERAL friends who have ALSO tried that and found that long-term, it just didn't work for them.

Alissa is one as well.

No matter what, we simply must pay attention to our bodies. If someone is eating too much fat, they should know! Because they will feel "heavy" and not be full of energy. Or they will lean towards more fruit.

That is the key.

A lot of people who eat a lot more fat than works for them, are doing the emotional "cabinet shopping" sort of thing, where they are avoiding a personal emotional issue. That I can't speak to, because I have moved to a stage of eating for hunger, period.

lol! I feel like I may be repeating myself here. All I know is that we are not one-size-fits-all humans. Our needs change, our experiences are different, our bodies are different, and our lifestyles are different.

I hope that you are not trying to get to optimal quickly... and instead are missing what you need to get there! BUT that IS SUPER COOL that you are aware of the pitfalls and trying to avoid them. :cheer:

[modernmonkey]

How do you know if you are eating low fat raw? Maybe a stupid question and i know it's suppose to be no more than 10% of calories from fat a day, but what would that look like in a days intake of food? I can't really picture what 10% should look like.
I'd say that at least 60% of my diet is fruit, but i'm not sure if my fat intake is 10% or below. where i get my fat from everyday is usually 1tbsp coconut oil, about 200ml of weak hemp milk, maybe about 1.5 tbps of olive oil and occasionally half an avocado or some pumpkin or sunflower seeds. does this sound like a lot of fat?

The great thing with aiming for 10% fat is, it is NOT a quantity, it is a ratio. So don't let anyone convince you that it is limiting. You can easily use an online food tracker (like fitday.com) to find out what percentage of your diet is fat. If you want to keep it down to the recommend 10% but find you are going over, all you have to do is up your fruit intake to bring the ratio back in line. This should not be permanent but a process which will enlighten you to how often you turn to fats instead of fruit, the preferred source of nutrition. Remember there is plenty of folk here that argue you needn't limit your fat intake on raw but there are also plenty that feel they should. It's up to you and this is one way to do it. 10% looks like half to a whole avocado or a couple of ounces of nuts/seeds plus what is derived from the fruits you eat if you eat enough to reach your daily caloric quota.

[Eva]

How do you know if you are eating low fat raw? Maybe a stupid question and i know it's suppose to be no more than 10% of calories from fat a day, but what would that look like in a days intake of food? I can't really picture what 10% should look like.
I'd say that at least 60% of my diet is fruit, but i'm not sure if my fat intake is 10% or below. where i get my fat from everyday is usually 1tbsp coconut oil, about 200ml of weak hemp milk, maybe about 1.5 tbps of olive oil and occasionally half an avocado or some pumpkin or sunflower seeds. does this sound like a lot of fat?

Verbena, this sounds like about the amount of fat I get in an average day, and I don't stick to 10%, but I also don't (in my opinion!) overdo it. Do you feel heavy and lethargic? Or full of energy? Hungry?

[modernmonkey]

No matter what, we simply must pay attention to our bodies. If someone is eating too much fat, they should know! Because they will feel "heavy" and not be full of energy. Or they will lean towards more fruit.

That is the key.



Praise be Eva! I love this quote. It resonates with me. I may pin it on my fridge. Thank you.:encore:

[verbena]

The great thing with aiming for 10% fat is, it is NOT a quantity, it is a ratio

Thank you, this makes so much more sense to me now!

Eva - I dont feel heavy, and I do get hungry pretty quickly - usually within 3 hours of eating a meal fat or no fat. as for lethargic, not really, though i'm needing to sleep a lot right now as i'm detoxing I think. I was raw most of last year apart from a couple of cooked months at the end of last year, but i'm back 100% again. The tiredness was quite bad for a few weeks, but it's letting up now.

I guess I don't need to worry about my fat intake :)

[modernmonkey]

Thank you, this makes so much more sense to me now!

Eva - I dont feel heavy, and I do get hungry pretty quickly - usually within 3 hours of eating a meal fat or no fat.


From what I understand, 3 hours is EXACTLY the amount of time a raw meal should last you so I think you are spot on and not getting hungry too quickly. Well done you!

[OnMyJourney]

I will admit that I did not read all of these replies just a few, but I wanted to reply to modernmonkey's initial response to me, before I get my workout in for the evening.

I'm not endorsing or saying that I will engage in a high fat raw food life. I'm saying that I'm not going to sweat eating avocado as a part of my diet in fear that I will gain weight as a result.

In Alissa's book she clearly says that a properly balanced diet consists of selecting foods from all the principal groups (fats, greens, and fruits). "If you do not eat from all three sources your body will eventually become nutritionally out of balance. It's that simple." (pg 85 LOLF). So she's not saying eat avocados, nuts, etc all day every day and be healthy because that's better than eating SAD or because it's non-cooked, naturally occurring fat. She's saying, and I'm celebrating the fact that, I don't have to be overly worried about consuming avocados in general. I love them, and my diet is indeed balanced. I will listen to my body. If it's craving more avocado right now then it's because it needs it and when it no longer does...the cravings/desires will even out...as will my overall intake.

[modernmonkey]

I will admit that I did not read all of these replies just a few, but I wanted to reply to modernmonkey's initial response to me, before I get my workout in for the evening.

I'm not endorsing or saying that I will engage in a high fat raw food life. I'm saying that I'm not going to sweat eating avocado as a part of my diet in fear that I will gain weight as a result.

In Alissa's book she clearly says that a properly balanced diet consists of selecting foods from all the principal groups (fats, greens, and fruits). "If you do not eat from all three sources your body will eventually become nutritionally out of balance. It's that simple." (pg 85 LOLF). So she's not saying eat avocados, nuts, etc all day every day and be healthy because that's better than eating SAD or because it's non-cooked, naturally occurring fat. She's saying, and I'm celebrating the fact that, I don't have to be overly worried about consuming avocados in general. I love them, and my diet is indeed balanced. I will listen to my body. If it's craving more avocado right now then it's because it needs it and when it no longer does...the cravings/desires will even out...as will my overall intake.

Thank you OnMyJourney. I genuinely like the philosophy when spoken in full and I especially like the way both yourself and Eva put it. If you read all the posts you would see I was quickly coming round.:wuv

[OnMyJourney]

Does coconut oil count? I just can't get into avocados, I am not sure why, but I can't. I use coconut oil all the time, everyday. so does that count? I do eat avocados, but not all the time. Usually only if a recipe calls for them and then sometimes I omit them. I want to like them more but I am not sure why I don't.

I'm with Eva, if you don't like avocados don't 'force' yourself to eat them. And yes, coconut oil counts. I would just say make sure it's cold pressed and extra virgin. Happy rawking life style! :cheer:

I'm not big on nuts too much with the exception of an occasion batch of cheezy kale chips or cheez its, so I need to get my fat in. Just like Eva, I crave it when I go even one day without it! But in retrospect, I do find that on the days where I stick a few cashews or walnuts in some pitted dates as a snack that I don't crave avocados. Isn't it wonderful how the body can tell us just what it needs? So simple, yet it never ceases to amaze me!

[OnMyJourney]

Thanks for sharing Eva.

I guess what you and many others are saying is, it really doesn't matter whether, high-fat, low-fat, high fruit, low fruit etc... what matters is the introduction to raw. And that introduction will lead to a natural balance eventually. I guess I have a bee in my bonnet because I want to get to optimum as quick as possible. I have read too much about newbies who eat too much fat, end up with the same old cravings and gain weight. This seems to me totally unnecessary but I guess there is a good argument that noobs must learn for themselves. I just feel that a low-fat, high fruit lifestyle could cut a lot of corners. And in a way if you go days without fat because you don't feel like it then I don't see you as having a high-fat diet. I'm concerned with the newbies hitting 40% fat a day easily, making all these high-fat recipes and eating loads of avocados ASWELL. Add a ton of fruit too? They are likely to be in with some shocks before health and energy come to them.

Alissa's response to this in LOLF was basically that as a newbie, coming from SAD you need the denser foods or more food to keep the food cravings at bay and to prevent binging on SAD foods because you feel like" Raw isn't working," due to the intense hunger. And eventually things will even out...if you/we listen to our bodies. I think it's very well explained on pages 168-170, pg 56 and 87.. Overeating avocado or anything is not optimal or advised...no one should eat to the point of sluggishness on Raw or SAD. However, she does say,


If you are trying to lose weight, eat more fruit and vegetables and minimize the fats. Reduct the amount of nuts and extra oils eaten, and get your fats from avocado and other fatty fruits such as olives. pg. 87

That's in line with what I'm doing, so I'm happy. The key is knowledge. Success with ANY lifestyle change is about being informed. It's not misleading or ill advised, IMO...no one can do the research for you. One has to do the legwork on their on. Which is what this whole thread is about. I have the book, I have the information at my finger tips...but I let myself get taken astray by other discussions. I'm celebrating the fact that I'm going back to the source (Alissa) as far as my raw food philosophy is concerned and I'm kicking myself a bit for ever teetering.

[OnMyJourney]

Originally Posted by Eva

No matter what, we simply must pay attention to our bodies. If someone is eating too much fat, they should know! Because they will feel "heavy" and not be full of energy. Or they will lean towards more fruit.

That is the key


Yep...


Thank you OnMyJourney. I genuinely like the philosophy when spoken in full and I especially like the way both yourself and Eva put it. If you read all the posts you would see I was quickly coming round.:wuv


I'm glad you all discussed things through prior to my return. Keep up the wonderful living! :throwhearts:

[modernmonkey]

That's in line with what I'm doing, so I'm happy. The key is knowledge. Success with ANY lifestyle change is about being informed. It's not misleading or ill advised, IMO...no one can do the research for you. One has to do the legwork on their on. Which is what this whole thread is about. I have the book, I have the information at my finger tips...but I let myself get taken astray by other discussions. I'm celebrating the fact that I'm going back to the source (Alissa) as far as my raw food philosophy is concerned and I'm kicking myself a bit for ever teetering.

I wholeheartedly agree. I have a different source, philosophy, information and my teetering is different to your teetering. But what you say in BOLD is absolutely true. What I know get is how utterly unique each persons approach can be to reach similar results.

[Eva]

Loved this discussion. :) :) :) :heart