Suggestions for NON-Brassica dark green leafies?

[Arky]

Hi, many of you will be aware of the goitrogenous (http://cancerweb.ncl.ac.uk/cgi-bin/omd?query=goitrogen&action=Search+OMD) nature of members of the Brassica family (cabbage, broccoli, kale, brussels sprouts, Pak Choi etc.).

I'm just wondering if any of you have any suggestions about non-goitrogenous alternatives for dark-green leafy consumption? I'm not overly concerned about the Brassicas when eaten in moderation, but the point is that I really want to increase my intake of dark leafies dramatically, since they contain so many nutritional benefits.

I realise this discussion strays a little into the botanical domain, but I'm sure some of you have experience & knowledge in this area :)

Therefore, it would be really cool if some of you could contribute to a list of non-goitrogenous dark-green leafies, which would be useful not just to myself but to all of us here on the board.


Thanks for your input.


J.

[Sharon in Colorado]

How about spinach, kale and other greens?

[MAK]

Dear J. a.k.a. Arky ,-)))
That is a very important issue. At this point the under active thyroid is my biggest health concern. It is improving but slowly.
Because of thyroid I have excluded fresh cabbage (love this vegetable) and others mentined by you from my diet. I have replaced cabage with romaine lettuce. Nevertheless, I eat fermented cabbage in homemade non-salted sourcraut and/or cortido. I am quoting Sandor Katz the author of Wild Fermentation:

"...Raw cabbage, according to some
nutritionists should not be eaten on a daily
basis because of the presence of goitrogens,
substances that block the formation
of thyroid hormone. This in turn makes it
difficult for the liver to convert the plant
form of vitamin A into the animal form.
Fermented cabbage is a transformed vegetable
and does not have these limitations..."

[Rawkinlocs]

Yeah, I was going to say any of the darker lettuces (green leaf, red leaf, romaine, etc.); parsley, baby leaf spinach...and how about the wild/weed-types (dandelion greens, lambs quarters, etc.)?

[MAK]

Yeah, I was going to say any of the darker lettuces (green leaf, red leaf, romaine, etc.); parsley, baby leaf spinach...and how about the wild/weed-types (dandelion greens, lambs quarters, etc.)?

Any lettuces except iseberg (useless vegetable). Prsley is wonder herb. Very nutritious and has many medicinal values. Dendelion greens are great for your liver, but they are somewhat bitter and need to be soaked for a while.
I remember my grandma used to send me in the weeds to pick up dendelion greens and roots (stems were not good) for salads and garnishes.
I have never seen "lamb quarters" What is it?

BTW grandma lived to be 94 (!).

[Rawkinlocs]

Here is a site that gives a lot of info with photos of lamb's quarters:

http://www.cloudnet.com/~djeans/FlwPlant/lambsQuarters.htm

Here is a brief synopsis of what is found on the above page:

Lamb's-quarters, Pigweed Chenopodium album
Goosefoot Family: Chenopodiaceae

This European immigrant is an odorless, branching, annual herb, with stalked, opposite, simple leaves which are clammy-feeling, unwettable, and have a whitish coating on the underside. The first leaves are roughly diamond-shaped and somewhat toothed toward the point, and the later leaves are narrow and toothless.

Lamb's-quarters was introduced to the U.S. as a pot-herb and now grows everywhere. It particularly likes disturbed soil, but it's not above growing through the cracks in the sidewalk. It generally grows from 1 to 3 feet tall, though it may reach over twice that height under favorable conditions. There are many similar edible species in this genus. The rule is: if it's odorless, it's food, and if it has a resiny smell, it's a spice.

...Lamb's-quarters is very high in vitamin A, calcium, potassium, and phosphorus and is also a good source of protein, trace minerals, B-complex vitamins, vitamin C, iron, and fiber.

[MAK]

Thanks,
I know this weed. The Russian name "loboda"
It grows everywhere. I never new it can be eaten :confused:
Did you ever try to eat it raw in salads?

[nemo]

huh... i was unaware that brassicas might not be perfectly divine food for all humans... but than again i don't do banannas, soooo...

...the aforementioned Parsley... my all time favorite 'not kale, not cabbage' green... so densely packed with nutrition, so cheap LOL...

dandelion greens are bitter... bitter, bitter, bitter, just like my heart!! i LOVE 'EM!!! the don't need to be soaked, marinated, dehydrated, or doinked with in anyways shape or form... JUST EAT 'EM!!! no! you're tastebuds are the ones who are wrong!!! these greens'll make ya a lean, mean, disease fightin' machine!!!!

beet greens? very DARK leafies... a brassica? doesn't seem like it to me...but wadda i know, eh?

what about chard? swiss chard seems alot like beet greens to me...

i am going to go out on a limb, and assume that mustard greens (spicy YES!!) and collards, are maybe brassicas?

Nettles if you can get 'em are kewl...mmm, mm.

try any of the green herbs, rosemary, orgeano, basil... all very potent... wheatgrass, too... all potent 'greens'...

hope this helps

nemo

[Arky]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. What follows is not a criticism of any of your suggestions, but just my understanding of each of them. If any of you have heard conflicting info, I'd be pleased to hear it. I also realise that there is no such thing as a truly perfect food that may be eaten with total abandon! :)



How about spinach, kale and other greens?

Well, unfortunately, Kale is one of the Brassicas. Don't get me wrong, it's an extremely nutritious vegetable and I do eat it, but I refrain from eating it in larger quantities for the aformentioned reasons.

Spinach, I really like - it has such a mild taste that it's incredibly easy to eat in large quantities - however, I take it easy on the spinach, too, because it is very high in oxalic acid, whcih binds with calcium and hinders the absorption of calcium in the gut, which is a great pity.


Any lettuces except iseberg (useless vegetable).

I'm with you regarding the iceberg, Mak - iceberg lettuces have next to no nutritional value and also absorb relatively high levels of cadmium, apparently.

I enjoy, and eat plenty of romaine (Cos) lettuce, but lettuces are generally very lacking in minerals when compared to darker green and more substantial green leafies. Once of the main reasons I wish to consume large amounts of green leafies, aside from the healthy chlorophyll, is the mineral content.


parsley, baby leaf spinach...and how about the wild/weed-types (dandelion greens, lambs quarters, etc.)?

Parsley is something I do add to my smoothies, from time to time, not least for it's good vitamin C content. However, it is not easy, in my locality, to obtain large amounts of this herb for sensible money. I will try to find a wholesale source instead, since parsley is well worth including in good quantites in one's diet.

Baby leaf spinach is lower in oxalic acid than mature spinach, but the problem nonetheless remains. Also, non-organic spinach is often very high in pesticide residues (don't ask me why, it just is - it's often near the top of the residues list, near to strawberries. Damned modern farming...!!). I buy organic whenever I can, but it gets expensive. Despite all these factors, I do eat spinach quite regularly.

Lambs quarters - now there's something I've been eager to eat in larger quantities (despite the oxalic acid content), but I have been rather disappointed, in my wild-edible foraging attempts, in finding a good source for this nutritious plant. I'm continually looking, though...



dandelion greens are bitter... bitter, bitter, bitter, just like my heart!! i LOVE 'EM!!! the don't need to be soaked, marinated, dehydrated, or doinked with in anyways shape or form...


Yeah, I do consume dandelion greens - they're so abundant and easy to find. As you say, they are incredibly bitter - I cheat and blend them, but the nutritional value remains the same.



Nettles if you can get 'em are kewl...mmm, mm.


Yup - I always pick nettles at the same time as I pick dandelions (both are available almost year round), and blend both of them together into my green smoothies.
Dandelion greens, being the diuretic they are, do make me a little dehydrated if I'm not careful, however!



try any of the green herbs, rosemary, orgeano, basil... all very potent... wheatgrass, too... all potent 'greens'...

When I eventually get my automatic sprouter up and running, some time early in the new year, I'll definitely be growing some wheatgrass, alongside my baby greens. The herbs are all great, and i do consume them, but to eat any of them in significant quantity is not so easy, both in practical and in economic terms.


Then, of course, there's the whole Vitamin K issue, with large quantities of leafy greens, but that's another can O' worms! :D

Thanks again to all of you for your suggestions and please keep them coming, everyone!


J.

[NoGMO!]

come on, say something nice about Arugula, my all time favorite!! :p

dunno if that is a green or an herb- I'm not well versed in botany, but forgive me, I just had to chime in.

also, can fresh basil leaves be used as "leafy greens"? - oops sorry / I missed that - that was mentioned already by Nemo.

[Autumn]

How about escarole? YUM! :D

[Revvell]

Yanno what? GREENS ARE GOOD! That simple. I'm so tired of people making raw food eating HARD and complicated! It's NOT! IT IS SOOOO SIMPLE!!! EAT RAW FOODS!

I have to say ~ and maybe I'm just being grouchy yet, finding all kinds of things wrong with mother nature's intended food for us is just WRONG! If y'all will just read SG's latest post from Victoria Boutenko's latest book, you can put this all to rest. I'm tired from reading this. *goes to lay down* :p


R.

[Sharon in Colorado]

I agree with Revvell. We're all detoxing SAD food with all its dangers and side effects, we needn't worry so much about a what is in our natural edible vegetation.

[Ariannah]

I agree to a point. People with thyroid problems are advised to lay off or eat very minimally, the foods in the cabbage family, and it's good to know and educate oneself. I still eat kale on occasion, but for the most part do stay away from the cabbages.

Even narrowing down the greens, there is still plenty of freedom and varieties within even that. And as for the rest of the raw universe... off the top of my head I can name hundreds of foods, and those are just the ones my finite little brain knows about. So having to pick out one or two to avoid out of the list isn't such a big deal.

[Arky]

Escarole and arugula, now THERE's two I've never tried!

I'll look those out when I'm next in the supermarket or farmer's market.

I appreciate the remarks about not worrying about such things when eating raw and, to a point, I agree with the sentiment. My intention is not to complicate raw-foodism. However, as I stated in my original post, I really wish to consume greens in a MAJOR way, for a while, and it is simply because of the sheer quantity that I wish to consume that I feel, quite adamantly, that it is important to heed the potential issues associated with members of the brassica family. Sure, if I was only eating one cabbage a week then it'd be largely irrelevant. but if I'm eating 4-6 cabbages a week (for example), then it most certainly IS a concern. Burying my head in the sand about this will do me no good if my health suffers in the meantime, and there is, to be fair, a not-inconsiderable amount of head-burying in certain quarters of the raw community - "WHATEVER your symptoms are, just blame it on detox..." etc etc.

Any budding raw foodists reading this thread have absolutely nothing to worry about if they are consuming a wide range of foods which (by bulk, calories, or both) prevents them from consuming large quantities of any one food group family, and thus from falling foul of goitrogenic (or whatever characteristic) pitfalls. My present aims are to focus heavily on one particular foodgroup, which means my criteria are different.

Thankyou NoGMO and Autumn for your suggestions.


J.

[Autumn]

Arky,
Let me know when you've given escarole a try, and what you think of it. :)

[Arky]

I will, Autumn -once I've managed to find some! ;)

Just found this on my surfing travels:

http://www.seedquest.com/seed/vegetables.htm


J.

[sweetgoddess]

Arugula is a green herb so you're right on both counts!

I LOVE arugula. It tastes like peanuts and is extremely nutritious. :)
I used to grow a ton of it and sell it at the Farmers market. If you have a small garden space, go for it. It only takes 3 weeks from planting seeds until it is ready to eat and can be repicked a few times until it gets hot.


GREENS ARE GOOD! That simpleSo true!! Revvell, are you still lying down? lol.....hands you a green smoothie....
;)

[kel]

Arugula is my favorite and eat it as a salad all on its own. I like it when it gets hot

:D
It is easy to grow in a window too

[LeanAndHungry]

Now I am slightly concerned. I just bought a ton of Kale, as well as some Bok Choy and Chard from Diamond Organics in California to have it shipped all the way to Virginia. It's very expensive(for shipping), but so far the best source I have come across. The quality is superb. I planned on eating tons of Kale, like upwards of a half lb a day, and even doing days in which I only eat greens(Kale making up the majority of the greens). I have no known thyroid problems, but might it still be a problem?

[surfergrrl]

well, i've read through all the posts, and everyone got all my favorites. but.... did anyone say MINT?

and, you know, a lot of these herbs come in varieties, such as chocloate mint, which i'm thinking of growing in my apartment, because i read that it has small leaves (maybe that means it will behave itself and not take over- plus, how can i resist ANYTHING that has the word chocolate in it).

then there's pineapple sage, etc. going to try to grow some other herbs indoors, too. oh, yeah, mustard seeds for sprouting and growing.

gotta read more about those lambs quarters in rawkinlocs' post. bye for now..

[Dandelion Girl]

Brad, don't worry about eating all the kale. I just listened to a teleconference with Victoria Boutenko. She said they started out her green smoothies eating only kale and when their bodies had enough, they didn't want it anymore for a while. Your body will tell you when it is time to rotate and eat some other greens. After a while, they started eating kale again and rotated with other greens. She said that rotating greens is important, but that your body will tell you if it has had enough of a certain green. You just won't want to eat it at that time. Revvell is right. Greens are good. If you read Victoria's book, she will answer so many questions. She has done a lot of research on this and I feel that she knows a lot more about greens than any of the doctors that are telling us about problems with eating greens. All greens have something in them that causes us not to eat more than we need. But our bodies will tell us when we have reached that point. I'm not trying to critisize anyone worried about eating too much of any type of greens. I'm too new at this for you to listen to me, but I really feel that Victoria has done the research and has the experience more than anyone else that may say otherwise. I think if we listen to Alissa (Just make it raw.) and Victoria, we will all be doing a great thing for our bodies.

[Purl]

Here is a site that gives a lot of info with photos of lamb's quarters:

http://www.cloudnet.com/~djeans/FlwPlant/lambsQuarters.htm

Here is a brief synopsis of what is found on the above page:

Lamb's-quarters, Pigweed Chenopodium album
Goosefoot Family: Chenopodiaceae

This European immigrant is an odorless, branching, annual herb, with stalked, opposite, simple leaves which are clammy-feeling, unwettable, and have a whitish coating on the underside. The first leaves are roughly diamond-shaped and somewhat toothed toward the point, and the later leaves are narrow and toothless.

Lamb's-quarters was introduced to the U.S. as a pot-herb and now grows everywhere. It particularly likes disturbed soil, but it's not above growing through the cracks in the sidewalk. It generally grows from 1 to 3 feet tall, though it may reach over twice that height under favorable conditions. There are many similar edible species in this genus. The rule is: if it's odorless, it's food, and if it has a resiny smell, it's a spice.

...Lamb's-quarters is very high in vitamin A, calcium, potassium, and phosphorus and is also a good source of protein, trace minerals, B-complex vitamins, vitamin C, iron, and fiber.


THIS IS SOOOOO GREAT!!!! I have this stuff all over our yard!!! Free FOOD!!! YIPPEE!!!!!

[Jackie1995]

NOBODY mentioned watercress!

This is a marvelous leafy green!

here's a link:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17271-2004Mar23.html

Watercress
Wednesday, March 24, 2004; Page F05


This week's look at what's new, bountiful or mysterious in the produce aisles.

It's hardly intuitive that something as delicate as watercress would be a member of the mustard family. But that knowledge comes pretty easily upon first nibble. Watercress has a bracing peppery bite that is not at all subtle.



(Julia Ewan -- The Washington Post)


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NUTRITIONAL INFORMATION: Move over, wheatgrass. Watercress has long been regarded by the Chinese as a detoxifying agent. It contains substantial amounts of beta carotene, calcium, Vitamins A and C, as well as health-giving, cancer-fighting compounds including antioxidants and beta-phenylethyl isothiocyanate.


I've been using this a lot lately, (sorry-non organic version from super walmart, only $1.47 per package).

I put it in my guacamole instead of cilantro; I add it to my green smoothies (not more than 1.5 cups, because it does have a *snappy* flavor); I add it to salads, eat it raw just to green up my teeth.

Wonderful stuff!

Here's more:
Watercress can often be found in streams and damp meadows, and has small white flowers in the Spring. Watercress is delicious and pungent in salads. If you can't find a stream with a reliable supply of cress, check your local grocery store!

Also, for more detail on the amazing amount of nutrients in watercress, visit nutrition data:

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-B00001-01c20hq.html

See you later!

[jaurequi]

jackie1995, watercress is part of the cruciferous family... I think these are of the same family Arky wishes to avoid?