day 7 juice feasting, some questions

[shakin_jake]

Hello peeps, Read Angela Stokes juice feasting guide (David Rain's program) and decided to give it a try. I'm on day 7 and doing well overall and wanted to mention, I'm 54 years of age and have been using Cosquin joint supplement and 2 tabs of a generic naproxen daily for pain

I stopped using Cosequin and Naproxen the first day of the feast and have to say I'm experiencing a lot of joint discomfort not being on the two OTC meds

Specific joint problems..my left knee...tibea plateau fracture 1985

Left hand is obviously arthritic as it is causing me some pain and first noticed now, after starting this feast

I've had water fasting experience and know that part of fasting/juice feasting is detox, so best to avoid remedies like the two I mentioned but if I'm going to hang in there for the duration (92 days)...it looks like it's going to be a painful one...maybe in the short term only?

I've gone through crisis's water fasting like a major headache starting around day 8 annd lasting through day 15 of a 36 day water fast (1994) but with this juice regime, I'm wondering if by juice feasting I'll only prolong the pain...since it's not a thorough detox like water fasting. Comments?

BTW, I'm using a Champion juicer I've had 20 + years...works good. Mornings have been canteloupe. I'll juice half, wifey eats the other half, then it's on to watermelon usually (close to 3 litres) and then I go for the greens...lots of leaf lettuce, Romaine, I'm doing a bunch of celery (1) daily, 1 cuke, some parsley and cilantro. Tried a head of Bok Choy once all green juice with some celery...way too strong for me but a little bit of carrot added made it all palatable and tasted quite nice...sorta spicey. Also drinking grape juice and adding apples in with the carrot (carrot apple juice)


Jake
Reddick Fla.

[sport]

I cannot help you as I have not fasted yet.
I am planning to do a juice feast in the spring but have the same concerns as I have joint problems in lots of joints and arthritis in my fingers.
I find that right now glucosamine and astaxanthin control it but I have been led to believe that the only way to loose my dependance on these supplements is through fasting. I am disappointed to read that you have already completed a long water fast but still have problems.
May I ask what your diet has been like since the water fast.

[Aleesha Sattva]

why not contact the juice feasting site and ask them if you can continue with your meds?

that would make more sense to me. they may also have some other suggestions (like msm for example) that you could take instead. ;)

all the best to you on your fast.

[shakin_jake]

I cannot help you as I have not fasted yet.
I am planning to do a juice feast in the spring but have the same concerns as I have joint problems in lots of joints and arthritis in my fingers.
I find that right now glucosamine and astaxanthin control it but I have been led to believe that the only way to loose my dependance on these supplements is through fasting. I am disappointed to read that you have already completed a long water fast but still have problems.
May I ask what your diet has been like since the water fast.



~~~I was in my mid thirties when I began fasting. Just before I had read Diamond's Fit For Life where I discovered natural hygene and fasting and then decided to try fasting for the health benefits but only after reading quite a few books on the subject, books obtained through the American Natural Hygene Assoc.

My first 21 day fast (water only) was done under the supervision of Dr. William L Esser at his hygenic ranch in Lake Worth Fla. It was quite the experience for me. I was a bit overweight (230, should weigh 190 lbs.)

IIRC, I lost at least 20 + lbs, maybe more, I can't remember but having been asthmatic all my life, perhaps the real joy was the ability to be able to run a bit during my post week recovery. I took a month off work...that's was all the time I was given so three weeks fasting, one week recovery. I was young enough then to pull it off

I had made a decision to try and fast 40 days the following year. I couldn't get time off work so I quit my job=:-) Yes, being able to do a lengthy fast was that important to me. I went back to Dr. Esser's. I did 25 days there and became restless and decided to come back home to finish up (very foolish but I did). I left my car at Dr. Esser's and took a train from Lake Worth to Miami where I caught a plane back to the Keys (Marathon) where my wife picked me up and made the 30 mile ride south home to Big Pine Key

I had 15 more days to fast to make it to 40 but on the morning of the 37th day I awoke from a horrible nightmare and decided to call it quits. This is one of the reasons why you want to do lengthy fasting under proper supervision...and why I mention this episode. With proper supervision, I would have been consoled and I'm sure, would have continued the fast

I did break the fast properly for the short time at home drinking only fresh juices, then made my way back to Lake Worth so Dr. Esser could bring me back to eating. I think a spent a week more at Dr. Esser's. I do remember that after breaking this fast in Lake Worth I weighed 196 lbs. (started this fast at 232 lbs.) and the week I stayed there eating their regime of nutrition, I lost another 3 lbs. I was in the best state of health at that time in my adult life. I left Dr. Esser's driving west across Florida to visit with my Mother who lived in Naples. She kept a cat and I had always been allergic to cats. Horribly allergic to cats (red itchy eyes, swelling nasal passages, asthmatic compromised breathing). After that 36 day fast, I was able to pick Mom's cat up and snuggle with it. No doubt, I did a pretty good detox that time

Unfortunately for me, I was too head strong to stay on a complete hygenic diet. I slowly worked my back into the SAD lifestyle. As I write this I can hear Roxy Music playing 'both ends burning'

I did a few more shorter fast with Dr. Esser up through about Y2K and after making the move to north central Fla. I will do a 10 day fast on my own at least every other year. It's been a constant struggle for me to live hygenically. I've not been able to do it but I'm trying. I've been to the promised land, and it was good=:-)

Getting back to the present, last night I decided to get back on Naproxen and the joint compound I was using, whilst juice feasting. My old injuries (forgot to mention fracturing my left ankle 5 years ago) were too painful to endure while on this journey. I figure I can still get a lot of work done juice feasting and use these meds

From what I've come to understand about water fasting, arthritis can be reversed but when you add an injury to the mix, that complicates things (dealing with scar tissue?)

I wish you well on your fasting/feasting journies. You may very well be able to recover from arthritis completely. Don't let anyone stop you from trying


Jake
Reddick Fla.

[shakin_jake]

why not contact the juice feasting site and ask them if you can continue with your meds?

that would make more sense to me. they may also have some other suggestions (like msm for example) that you could take instead. ;)

all the best to you on your fast.


~~~I didn't contact the juice feasting folks but I did go back to their site late last night and read enough where they suggested if you have joint issues to use MSM and another type of reccommended substance that would or should palliate the arthritic symptoms. I need relief now so decided to get back on naproxen and Cosemin DS. I took a dose last night and again this morning (late)

I'll kick around the idea of using MSM and their other suggested formula. In the meantime naproxen add cosemin DS will be the drug of choice. As I mentioned in my previous post in this thread, I have to be able to get around while juice feasting, yet now so more compromised. To live not only in pain but the inability to not have what I've had concerning range of movement, was too dibilitating for me. I'm willing to give MSM a shot though.

I'm on day 8 of this juice feast and really want to continue. Last night I had a bit of a crisis. Stomach pains/cramps and a painful bout of diarhea. I should mention, I've not done an enema during this feast. I know it's highly suggested to do one daily for at least the first 10-14 days while juice feasting, if not longer if you have weight issues to rid yourself of (which i do). If you haven't figuerd it out (reading my dribble=:-), I'm hard headed and the old school hygeneists I learnt from in the past did not beleive in colonics, IIRC. They did recommend an enema if you were constipated and in pain however My BM's have been good and daily, and some loose but that is to be expected. I've learnt long ago that diarhea should be rejoiced as your body is ridding itself of unpleasantries...a good thing=:-)


Jake
Reddidck Fla.

[RawKnitster]

Best of luck to you during this fast. You sound mentally prepared for some heavy detoxing. Good for you! :)

I recently attended the "2nd Annual International Day of Juice Feasting". All the speakers, including Matt Monarch and Angela Stokes-Monarch, heavily stressed the importance of colon hydro-therapy during a detoxing fast, and even on into a raw life. Matt even said if you can't do it, then don't live the raw life. The argument is that when we are detoxing (especially during juice fasting) our colon needs extra help. I'm not at all convinced. It seems unnatural and wrong. I may be totally wrong. I probably should try it before knocking it. ;)

[sport]

I can understand the need for it when juice feasting as you are not getting any fibre but non fasting raw foodists should have no need for it. It makes no sense to me either.

[k8sl8]

I have read several articles that say similar... "have to" do colonics, etc. and I'm really sorry to hear MM say RAW is nothing without colonics. That's just not right. A large number of articles say the opposite... the medical field is against them as well for the most part.

The good Lord made our bodies, including our digestive system and elimination system to function under the worst of situations. Eating RAW is a healthy diet and is helping out both systems; what's hard to figure out about that?? Some of the gurus are just taking it too far sort of like the tv evangelists, lol.

Bottom line: EACH OF US needs to decide what it right for the individual. For me, no colonics...

[Aleesha Sattva]

no colonics and no fasting centres for me either. i can supervise myself... i'm capable of making decisions.

honestly... so what... you break your fast... you can always fast again. you don't have to quit your job, be at home, go to a centre, sit under palm trees (although i would like that... with a cute cabana man bringing me lovely juices LOL)...

i trust dr herbet sheldon a LOT more than i do matt monarch. a lot more.

http://www.soilandhealth.org/02/0201hyglibcat/020127shelton.III/020127.ch13.htm

read this... and then choose for yourself. we are all individuals. some use man made medicines, some do not. some fast, some do not. some eat food raw live and real... and some do not. neither path is right and neither is wrong... just different!

[shakin_jake]

Best of luck to you during this fast. You sound mentally prepared for some heavy detoxing. Good for you! :)

I recently attended the "2nd Annual International Day of Juice Feasting". All the speakers, including Matt Monarch and Angela Stokes-Monarch, heavily stressed the importance of colon hydro-therapy during a detoxing fast, and even on into a raw life. Matt even said if you can't do it, then don't live the raw life. The argument is that when we are detoxing (especially during juice fasting) our colon needs extra help. I'm not at all convinced. It seems unnatural and wrong. I may be totally wrong. I probably should try it before knocking it. ;)




~~~I think it's safe to say there is a bigger disparity between raw foodists and natural hygenists than meets the eye. Sure, both advocate raw food making up a good part of the diet (raw foodists being 100 % raw) yet natural hygene on the other hand is much simpler than some raw foodists say consuming raw food should be....especially those raw foodists that advocate adding powders/supplements and what not to their diet (protein powder, hemp, spirulina). Natural hygene is all about keeping it simple (eat fruits, nuts, seeds and vegetables, in their whole raw natural state, period)

I like what Matt is doing. I don't agree with everything he writes (I'm just a layperson) but I like the fact that he and other new faces in the raw movement are spreading the gospel about healthful living through the consumption of a plant based diet

I'm currently reading one of Matt's books where he ponders why most of the great raw food pioneers never lived past 83 or 90 years of age. Suggesting that if the raw food diet is so good, why aren't those that led the way in the modern era, why they didn't live longer, up into the centurian age and beyond

He goes on to point out some of what I've said in this post, outlining the differences between those that kept their diets although raw, they kept it simple (hygenists) and did not add the supplements he is advocating in his book. I think I got that right. Please correct me if I am wrong in summing up his outline

I think one thing Matt is missing, and you don't get this from reading about people...what quality of life did they derive from their life style. Reading about these folks (the ones Matt refersn to) you wont find out about the richness of their life through reading the books that they wrote. I thought about that reflecting on the time I spent at Dr. Esser's ranch watching Dr. Esser play tennis (Matt mentions Dr. Esser in this group). How many know Dr. Esser was an avid tennis player? He was quite good at the sport. I watched him beat players half his age, and good players at that. For a man in his eighties, he was quite the tennis player. There is more to the raw lifestyle than the length of years you obtain. Others may have better and different ideas


Jake
Reddick Fla.

[shakin_jake]

no colonics and no fasting centres for me either. i can supervise myself... i'm capable of making decisions.

honestly... so what... you break your fast... you can always fast again. you don't have to quit your job, be at home, go to a centre, sit under palm trees (although i would like that... with a cute cabana man bringing me lovely juices LOL)...




~~~~You may not realize it but what you wrote here came off as a bit condescending. Yes I quit my job 16 years ago to fast, what is wrong with that? And what is wrong with going to a hygenic ranch to learn natural hygene? I read your bio and you say you've been into raw food for 4 years now...before that you were morbidly obese and have since learned how to release 100+ lbs of body fat through nothing more than eating raw, and you are now coaching others to do the same. Would you consider those you now coach uncapable of making decisions on there own- not learning how to do it themselves vs. learning from someone else, like you? or is it okay they learn via phone consulting vs. going to a centre?

You have come up (your very own raw awareness) in the age of the internet. Many of us discovered raw and natural hygene at a time before the internet when you had to actually attend health lectures in person and visit hygenic 'centres' to gain knowledge. And yes, some of us have slipped along the way




i trust dr herbet sheldon a LOT more than i do matt monarch. a lot more.

http://www.soilandhealth.org/02/0201hyglibcat/020127shelton.III/020127.ch13.htm

read this... and then choose for yourself. we are all individuals. some use man made medicines, some do not. some fast, some do not. some eat food raw live and real... and some do not. neither path is right and neither is wrong... just different!




~~~I took the time to read that article by Dr. Shelton. Some of the passages seemed familiar. I could very well have read it in the past. I have not read all of Dr. Sheltons writings but I have read some. It's hard to argue with the likes of Dr.Shelton on any topic he discusses



Jake
Reddick Fla.