Vitamin B12

[DutchGirlGoneRAW]

Hello Everyone ^.^
I was just wonder how you get your vitamin B12? My mom and I just realized we aren't eating enough food with B12 in it and because it is commonly found in animal products (meat, dairy, eggs) I am not sure where else to really get it. I am not fond of taking supplements (a.k.a. I don't want to at all) so as stated above where do you get yours.

[unchatquitue]

Seaweed has some cobalamin (b12) in it, specially nori.

[sport]

I supplement as I feel that it is the safer option. I think that you can get it from fermented food as it is made by bacteria.

[Shels]

I just found out that I'm low in B vitamins as well (and consequently white blood cells).
The only thing I've been consuming with B12 specifically is nutritional yeast. Legumes and peas have other B vitamins though. I was wondering if anyone tried marmite? I just discovered it today. I really don't want to put dairy into my body, but I NEED these vitamins. Have always been against supplementing, as what we're incapable of absorbing goes where it doesn't belong in the body. It just scares me.

This is so frustrating, it's cake to find options for vegetarians, pretty easy for vegans too, but raw vegan? It's like all we have left is supplements. :mad:

Edit: There is also no proof that seaweed has any b12 that is available to us, and some types can actually inhibit whatever b12 we may be getting.

[michigan roman]

IVE SEEN MANY SAY IT CAN BE FOUND IN SOIL SO DONT WASH YOUR GARDEN VEGIS , sorry caps on by accident . so if true that its in soil why not just mix some good organic dirt from a prepared area in yard with water then filter the solids out of water for a natural b12 drink ?????????

could even take say a big like 4 gallon stainless steel kettle / pot with lid , fill it with your choice of plant stuffs , leaves / grasses / etc , and let it decompose to soil that you use to make b12 water . question then becomes what would be best plant stuffs to make a b12 rich soil ?????????

[Shels]

Roman, the only reason it is found in soil is because it is in fecal matter. It's produced in the lower intestine. So, you'd be drinking poo-water. Not my first choice.

[michigan roman]

im not expert on the topic and even if was its a very seriously debated issue with to me no one having it completely figured out , but as far as i understand with or without creature waste matter in the soil there are some types of bacterias that create b12

[Cottonball McFluffy]

I just found out that I'm low in B vitamins as well (and consequently white blood cells).
The only thing I've been consuming with B12 specifically is nutritional yeast. Legumes and peas have other B vitamins though. I was wondering if anyone tried marmite? I just discovered it today. I really don't want to put dairy into my body, but I NEED these vitamins. Have always been against supplementing, as what we're incapable of absorbing goes where it doesn't belong in the body. It just scares me.

This is so frustrating, it's cake to find options for vegetarians, pretty easy for vegans too, but raw vegan? It's like all we have left is supplements. :mad:

Edit: There is also no proof that seaweed has any b12 that is available to us, and some types can actually inhibit whatever b12 we may be getting.
Have you tried vegemite? :)

The B12 in seaweed and mushrooms is more than likely (according to recent studies) of animal waste origin. In seaweed it would be the waste matter seacreatures, including bacteria, produces. All B12 isn't just the poo on top of the plants, but remants of it the plant absorbs from the soil. But those would be very base elements and gone through the plants own digestive system, so there would be marginal remnants left. Not enough to keep the body stocked. :(

[I_am]

The only thing I've been consuming with B12 specifically is nutritional yeast. Legumes and peas have other B vitamins though. I was wondering if anyone tried marmite? I just discovered it today.


Marmite is really nasty, IMO, my uncle likes it a lot though, but it's really salty...bleh

But what about spirulina? It's algae, and you can buy it in tablets, then powder it up to add to smoothies or mix in with almond yogurt or drinks,
I heard the B12 in it isnt actually B12 though, but it's worth a shot, right?

B12 is really only found in bacteria- it comes from animal products because said bacteria live inside their intestines

[Shels]

Hey guys, thanks for the input. :D

I have since learned that one can find lots of B vitamins, including B12 in kombucha drinks, and water kefir drinks. Once I have a little money I'm going to get some water kefir grains and start growing away! It seems pretty simple and they just keep multiplying...

Oh, and they say there are also B vitamins in mushrooms.

[fastfreedom]

When I was began researching the best diet for the human body I came upon eating raw vegan. "Now days it just makes sense." But anyhow, B12 was a subject that seemed to come up pretty often. So I kept searching trying to find if raw vegan was the optimal diet.

Well there's lots of topic considering B12. Some things I found on the internet was that the body produces it, but can't absorb it because it's too low in the colon or something to be absorbed before it exits from the body. Then I read something about fasting and B12 that made sense. If you fast and don't do enemas then you won't have as many BM's, so then B12 tends to stay in the body long enough that it eventually gets absorbed. "Which makes sense to me after everything I've read about fasting, health, and B12." But I've only found two references of it on the internet. I'll find the links. It's something I wanted to test for actually to see if my B12 levels went up after a fast. But I haven't done that yet.

And in a diet where we would be a gatherer I think we may end up unintentionally eating insects while eating grass and greens and such. And I think that would be another source where we would get B12 if we lived such a life. But I'm not gonna go eat insects though. And I don't think I'm gonna eat any vegetables that have poo on em enither though, for fear of parasites. But that's just me.

Something else I'm recalling atm is that many sources of B12 that are in plant foods like kombucha and others aren't the proper kind needed by the body. But I really don't know, it's just something I recall and you may wanna do your own research.

After everything I could find on B12 I've decided that I'll just get a B12 supplement and use it if I need it. And also do water fasting to increase B12 levels.

Here's that link. http://www.healself.org/Vitamin%20%20B12.html

I had another link, but it has changed and no longer has the water fasting info in it.

[sport]

Fasting can help with absorption of other things as well. I have read of someone with low iron doing a fast and their levels went up.
I supplement B12 as well. It is better to be safe than sorry.

[bananafish]

Nutritional yeast can be a good source, though I'm not certain on how raw that is.

[michigan roman]

nutritional yeast only contains b12 if its supplimented with it ,
it does not occur naturally in the yeast

from what ive read anyway , and ive read it from many sources

[Cookie Monster Gone Raw]

So I have been adding alfalfa sprouts to my salad and last night I decided to do a bit of reading on the sprout and discovered that it actually contains vitamin B12! Yes that’s right B-12, apparently it is one of the few plant sources that contain this vitamin. I thought I would share this with you just incase if you did not know this already.

[PlantsPlease]

Hi! I supplement with B12, specifically DEVA brand B12 supplements (or sometimes the multivitamin). DEVA's B12 sublingual tastes really good and taking a sublingual/chewable tablet helps absorption.

Please supplement with B12. B12 deficiency is a very real and awful problem. It can take a while to manifest and the symptoms are not already clear so it's possible for permanent damage to be done before it is properly diagnosed. Supplements might not be "natural", but then neither is using computers. And health is far more important that being "natural". If you want natural, you could eat your feces like some other species do, but I really don't recommend that.

There are a lot of myths about where you can get B12, but the only reliable source for enough B12 is supplements. Fortified foods are good, but generally not raw and they are less than reliable because batches can vary. Also, stuff like nutritional yeast is not always fortified with B12. Other sources of B12 are even less reliable and mostly contain analogs that were once thought to be usable B12 (hence much of the confusion). We now know that such analogs do raise B12 levels for the purposes of blood tests but do not clear up B12 deficiency. So, not only is it not usable B12, it can give you misleading results on blood tests AND it might also reduce use of B12 -- something to keep in mind if you do eat a lot of food with B12 analogs.

Please, please, please read up on this topic and encourage others to read this. It breaks my heart to see vegans, vegetarians and raw foodists needlessly suffering from B12 deficiency. It not only hurts them, which is certainly bad enough, it also leads to more people believing that plant-based diets are dangerous.

See: http://veganhealth.org/articles/vitaminb12

[Psychalone]

B12 is synthesized in the gut by bacteria. There is no need to supplement in diet if we life proper lifestyles. Instead of focusing on what foods HAVE B12, I think it would be worthwhile to consider what DEPLETES B12.

-Putrefactive Bacteria destroy friendly bacteria. Putrification occurs by eating the dead carcasses of animal and most animal proteins.
-Antibiotics
-Dr. West and Hillard showed that a high protein diet increases the requirment for B12
- SInce B12 is known for its effect of the nervous system, anything that overstimulates/damages the nervous system causes the need for B12 to increase. Smoking, television, excess fear/worry, electromagnetic stress, loud abrasive sounds, High tension situations, lack of exercise (HUGE ONE). THis is a big issue because the modern livestyle is that of overstimulation. Adding proper sleep, exercise and physical/mental/emotional relaxation is KEY. Meditate, do Yoga, Qigong, play relaxing music, etc Activate that parasympathetic system!

ANother big issue is absorbtion. If you have healthy gut flora and your lifestyle is in check then you may simply have issues with absorbtion. In this case proper colon cleansing or fasting will do the trick.

Lastly lets go to sources of B12. We know ACTIVE algae has B12, certain sea vegetation and soil based probiotics. Fermented foods therefore will have a good concentration of B12 as well.

Clinical and experimental animal studies have shown that pernicious anemia (b12 deficiency) can be treated successfully with chlorophyll, so load up on those greens/green smothies/green juices if you're worried about it.

Usually the biggest issues are bad absorbtion in the gut and overstimulated nervous system. Get those two sorted out and you should never have to worry about it.

Best of luck

[PlantsPlease]

Hi Psychalone,

Please, please, please read the page that I linked to above. Many of those "B12 sources" turned out after further testing to be sources of B12 analogues. Many books on this topic are using old information that has since been disproved. Please don't repeat these myths.

Also, not all bacteria produce B12. Fermented foods are not reliable because most bacteria do not produce B12. When there is actual B12 in fermented foods, it's a good sign that they were contaminated by feces at some point. And while we do have B12 producing bacteria in our digestive track, they are too far down the track for us to be able to absorb the B12.

Some people recycle B12 better than others in their systems, some people absorb it better, some people have bigger supplies of it from their animal eating days. For some, it can take many years for deficiency to develop (though for others, deficiency can develop much sooner). However, your stores will eventually deplete if you do not get enough in your diet. Please don't deplete your stores of B12 and become deficient. This is a very serious problem and it does happen.

[Psychalone]

Hi Psychalone,

Please, please, please read the page that I linked to above. Many of those "B12 sources" turned out after further testing to be sources of B12 analogues. Many books on this topic are using old information that has since been disproved. Please don't repeat these myths.

Also, not all bacteria produce B12. Fermented foods are not reliable because most bacteria do not produce B12. When there is actual B12 in fermented foods, it's a good sign that they were contaminated by feces at some point. And while we do have B12 producing bacteria in our digestive track, they are too far down the track for us to be able to absorb the B12.

Some people recycle B12 better than others in their systems, some people absorb it better, some people have bigger supplies of it from their animal eating days. For some, it can take many years for deficiency to develop (though for others, deficiency can develop much sooner). However, your stores will eventually deplete if you do not get enough in your diet. Please don't deplete your stores of B12 and become deficient. This is a very serious problem and it does happen.

Yes and some people live on one small vegetable meal a day known as "modified bigu" in chinese tradition. Others yet live on mostly sunlight or just breath alone...where's the b12 comin from? ;) Don't fall into the myth that we're as limited as the authoritarians would like you to believe. Plenty of vegetarian and vegan societies exist.

As for the analogous B12, I'm quite aware of the issue. When I first did raw vegan I was uneducated and failed miserably and ended up going raw paleo so i'm aware of most "anti-vegan" arguments. While it may be true that some B12 stuff doesn't work, Some has been proven to. Again most supplements that are tested for B12 activity are DEAD, most algae is rendered inactive through the processing methods people use, it's very hard to find active brands of algae, probiotics and enzymes are alittle easier.

Again you're failing to see the point that our high need for B12 is due to an improper lifestyle. As Dr Doug Graham says, "Lets judge by results, not theories". thegardendiet.com is the website of a raw vegan family. They've raised like 3-5 raw vegan kids...no B12 deficiency, no vitamin or mineral deficiency, no health issues. Now I wonder how that could be if they're not taking in B12. But lets look at their lifestyle. They get plenty of fresh air and sunshine, they're home-schooled, they're given many creative outlets like music and art etc, low stress environment. THATS why we suffer B12 issues, it's not that we don't make enough for a natural lifestyle, it's that we live UNNATURAL lifestyles so our needs are higher. Thats like eating a bunch saturated fats and cholesterol and saying "Oh we need blood pressure medication to survive and stay healthy", yeah if you keep up your unnatural diet and lifestyle you'll need blood pressure meds but if you live in accordance with nature you won't need jack.

To put some icing on this cake, there were clinical studies done by Dr. Zichgraf and Saunders where they were able to cure pernicious anemia with chlorophyll. They theorized that it's because it killed putrificative bacteria. So again, only when you've eliminated all of the factors that obstruct B12 synthesis and absorbtion can you make the dietary argument, and even then in order to prove we need it from diet you'd have to take people living natural lifestyles and clean diets and still find it. And how can you explain that there's no signifigant difernece in the percentage of meat eaters and vegans who suffer B12. If people who eat meat, eggs and milk on a near daily basis can get B12 deficiency then you can't possible say that we get it because it's not in out diet.

Now of course we don't all live natural low stress lives with clean air and sunshine and exercise, so in these cases, yes, supplementing with things like Raw Yogurt can help, but again to we can make enough on our own if we just clean ourselves up and live in accordance to nature, so why be dependent on a sub-par supplementation plan?

Your fear mongering is cute, but really it's not necessary, just let go, all your worrying is probably causing your need for B12 to increase ;) Nature takes care of her kin.

[Melon]

excess fear/worry, electromagnetic stress, loud abrasive sounds, High tension situations

Psychalone, I agree with everything you're saying but when I'm exposed to the above quoted and have a deficiency what do I do? I just got my B 12 test results back. Bad news....I was told to supplement! I never see doctors and never supplement since I'm against it too. I'm devastated and not sure what to do yet. :(
Has anyone here had a deficiency and managed to bring his/her levels back up to normal without synthetic supplements?
Do sprouts and kombucha really have human active B 12? Anyone has researched it? Thanks! : )