Agave = HFCS?

[sweetlime]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-jonny-bowden/debunking-the-blue-agave_b_450144.html

What do you all think of this?

[RawKnitster]

Heard it many times before. I don't care. I don't use agave because it is a health food or because it is low-glycemic, which it is not. My SIL has type 2 diatetes and agave sends her blood sugar through the roof.

I use agave, honey, and maple syrup because I have a serious sweet tooth that must be indulged or I would likely not continue to be raw. Perhaps at some level in my raw journey that will change. Until then, I use these items because they are NOT white sugar or high-fructose corn syrup.

[skier2]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-jonny-bowden/debunking-the-blue-agave_b_450144.html

What do you all think of this?

I think there's some truth to the article, though comparing it to HFCS is like comparing raw jicama fries to McDonalds fries fried in lard. Let's be honest, we all knew agave wasn't the best choice anyway, it's always been a processed sugar. Still, it's sweet, and really a little goes a long way. I don't use it much, but I definitely think comparing it to something that requires strong acids to produce, as well as some toxic chemicals and a 14-17 step chemical process, is laughable.

[Shelly11]

I'm wondering who paid that guy to write that article! lol

[RawKnitster]

(Agave is ) "A triumph of marketing over science." :confused: I've seen plenty of marketing done for High Fructose Corn Syrup but NEVER have I seen any marketing campaign for agave.

"In some ways it may be even slightly worse." (than white sugar) :confused: In what ways and can I see the support to back that up.

[skier2]

(Agave is ) "A triumph of marketing over science." :confused: I've seen plenty of marketing done for High Fructose Corn Syrup but NEVER have I seen any marketing campaign for agave.

"In some ways it may be even slightly worse." (than white sugar) :confused: In what ways and can I see the support to back that up.

Haha, well to quote someone else: "it's just as sweet as sugar, it has the same calories as sugar, and it's fine in moderation"...what do you want to bet someone from US Corn paid him to write that.

[timsmolens]

I think agave needs to be scratched from our list of potential as people who want to consume health food. If we need sweet it should come from stevia and honey. I think even maple syrup (not raw) is a better alternative than agave.

I like stevia but to me it only contains certain "frequencies" of sweet and doesn't fully satisfy my sweet tooth. I came up with solution to sweeten half with stevia and half with something else like honey, maple syrup, or fruit. In this way we eliminate the sugar by half since stevia has no actual sugar.

[Theobroma]

hmmm thought you guys might like to hear this too http://www.living-foods.com/articles/agave.html

[T-Bird]

I booed agave out of my diet within a month or two of going raw.....

1) too many questions about it

2) it's not a whole food anyway

3) raw honey has been prized since the ancients

4) dates are natures candy

5) stevia is sweet AND a green.

I don't use stevia powder - i'm going to try to grow it. Also growing a sugar maple in my yard - won't be ready to tap for about 10 years...:(

Like timsmolen said, using a variety of the natural sweeteners avoids any overload of one kind of sweetness in recipes.

[Eva]

Heard it many times before. I don't care. I don't use agave because it is a health food or because it is low-glycemic, which it is not. My SIL has type 2 diatetes and agave sends her blood sugar through the roof.

I use agave, honey, and maple syrup because I have a serious sweet tooth that must be indulged or I would likely not continue to be raw. Perhaps at some level in my raw journey that will change. Until then, I use these items because they are NOT white sugar or high-fructose corn syrup.

Makes perfect sense to me.

I use agave a few times a week and maple syrup and honey on the rare occasion (when I feel like it).

I have never had a problem with agave making me feel ill or less than stellar. I also question the source of all the agave scares that have come up in the last year. Especially since there is now profit to be made in other sweeteners that are being sold from many of the folks putting out info about agave all of the sudden.

Not that I'm saying they're being dishonest. I just don't know. And when there is money connected, I always have more questions.

Kind of for the same reason I question when David Wolfe (who sells huge amounts of chocolate) sings the praises of cacao as The Best Health Food Ever (which happens to give me anxiety if I have too much, and affects me in the same way coffee did = not so healthy for me).

*shrugs shoulders* I guess we just have to think for ourselves sometimes. ;)

[Irish_Vegan_Girl]

Makes perfect sense to me.

I use agave a few times a week and maple syrup and honey on the rare occasion (when I feel like it).

I have never had a problem with agave making me feel ill or less than stellar. I also question the source of all the agave scares that have come up in the last year. Especially since there is now profit to be made in other sweeteners that are being sold from many of the folks putting out info about agave all of the sudden.

Not that I'm saying they're being dishonest. I just don't know. And when there is money connected, I always have more questions.

Kind of for the same reason I question when David Wolfe (who sells huge amounts of chocolate) sings the praises of cacao as The Best Health Food Ever (which happens to give me anxiety if I have too much, and affects me in the same way coffee did = not so healthy for me).

*shrugs shoulders* I guess we just have to think for ourselves sometimes. ;)

I am with ya:)

[Rawcstacy]

Thanks to all previous posters here, so here's what we've learned if you've checked the links -

THE BOTTOM LINE - Processed agave is NOT raw, or usually pure as worldwide demand far outstrips supply (I wonder how that situation came about:rolleyes:), actually it is pure - pure POISON to the body (skull and crossbones smiley)

To Eva & Irish Vegan Girl: You are feel great now, that's certainly valid as some poisons don't produce immediate effects, but they are still harmful down the road, IMHO these "delayed karma foods" are the most insidious. White sugar is another - everything seems fine until the type II diabetes comes along (jabbing myself with insulin needle smiley). Come to think of it agave IS a refined sweetener like sugar, corn syrup, molasses, etc.

BTW, raw honey or dates are my preferred sweeteners (yum yum smiley)

[Broken Aquarian]

Raw honey is also refined/condensed - it's just that animals do it instead of machines. You can't eat a regular diet of honey, because you'd be stung so many times - you'd probably die from bee venom toxicity.

I think it's something to be enjoyed/used sometimes, but not something for every day use.

That's just my opinion. I try and think about things like
If I were out in nature, how would I go about getting this food?
Would I be injured trying to obtain it?
How hard would it be to get?
How much could I eat before becoming exausted from peeling/cracking/digging for it?

That's my opinion on the matter :D

[Wordracr]

Since upping my fruit intake to 20-30 pieces/day, I have little desire for honey these days - especially since it's spiked me in the past.

I like using dates, bananas, or raisins. Most of the time I just eat them plain (after soaking any dried fruit).

If you have to mix a sweetener with something to make it palatable, please, question if it's really the right food for you.

Personally, I question tomatoes for myself. Most varieties, I don't at all like them plain. So that makes me think they're not the perfect food for me. I do occasionally have it in a pasta sauce with raisins or dates though. I'm also trying growing a certain variety I found that I DO like the taste of plain.

They're about 2-3" in size and tasted sweet to me by themselves!! omg, so excited to try them again this year.

[Rawcstacy]

Raw honey is also refined/condensed - it's just that animals do it instead of machines.



Honey should be valued more for its enzymatic activity more than its sweetness - but we all like the sweetness, don't we? If at all possible use raw AND WILD honey of which some are bittersweet varieties. If you're ever this way friends, I DO know where to get the real thing.


I think it's something to be enjoyed/used sometimes, but not something for every day use.



Agreed, I use honey less than once a week nowadays. Dates more often and as referred to in the post above this one bananas and raisins are also good whole food sweeteners.


You can't eat a regular diet of honey, because you'd be stung so many times - you'd probably die from bee venom toxicity.

Perhaps you could take that up with the wild honey gathers in Burma, Indonesia, Mindanao and other forested locales. It's not an occupation without the occasional fatality, of course.
Anyhoo(sic) I was just out with 'em this afternoon, piece of (raw)cake really. OOoh SH*T! the bees followed us back, ouch, stop it!! can't talk anymore,OUCH!Owwh!, gotta run!! OUCH!!! OUCH! OWWWWWHHH!!!

[Raw Angel Mom]

Just read something from dr. Mercola site and this product raw agave is loaded with fructose, i started to use more honey instead. Apparently fructose is more toxic then glucose according to their research. Eating a whole fruit is ok. Fructose cans lead to obesity beside other serious problem. The good news, you can find pure form of agave. The color MUST be like water. I will finish the raw agave that i have and use it in moderation now.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/07/02/Agave-A-Triumph-of-Marketing-over-Truth.aspx

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/03/13/richard-johnson-interview.aspx

[Rawcstacy]

here we go again:rolleyes:
I'm still recovering from those bee stings (band-aid smiley).


Apparently fructose is more toxic then glucose according to their research.



REFINED fructose is more toxic then REFINED glucose, actually.


Eating a whole fruit is ok.[/B] Fructose cans lead to obesity beside other serious problem.



Contradiction, you mean eating a raw apple, grapes, etc. with lots of natural fructose can lead to obesity beside other serious problems?

REFINED fructose/sucrose/maltose/galactose/dextrose/everthing-ose(sic) cooked like say, applesauce IS the problem, but give me the raw organic apple anytime, please.

[christinajade]

We can all worry ourselves to death but the fact is that unless YOU or someone YOU actually know personally is growing or packaging the food, you cannot honestly say that you know where it is coming from, bottom line. We read things all day long and yes, there have been studies but have YOU or someone you've known done those studies? Probably not.

I know that all I can do is make safe choices from what I know or think I know since I am one of those people that doesn't grow or package my food. I pray over and then eat it and don't worry. :)

[Zella Juice]

dates are the best! We can even make a syrup out of them if we want. Eventually after being raw for many years if we are eating lots of fruits and veggies and leafy greens we will want less and less of things like agave and honey. My rule is to always go toward whole foods that are unprocessed. My body likes those the most.

[Raw Angel Mom]

here we go again:rolleyes:
I'm still recovering from those bee stings (band-aid smiley).



REFINED fructose is more toxic then REFINED glucose, actually.



Contradiction, you mean eating a raw apple, grapes, etc. with lots of natural fructose can lead to obesity beside other serious problems?

REFINED fructose/sucrose/maltose/galactose/dextrose/everthing-ose(sic) cooked like say, applesauce IS the problem, but give me the raw organic apple anytime, please.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. No i don't mean that eating a raw apple etc.. will lead to obesity but food with fructose added or food that has been processed, this is as per the article if you read it. They also mentioned that agave marked as raw agave is a process syrup still. Eating a food that hasn't been processed such as a raw fruit is ok, because this food contain everything necessary to balance out the fructose etc... According to Alissa Cohen, there are good raw agave syrup that is truly pure. Remember we buy almond marked raw but that aren't necessary raw. This is about being informed about what is going one with the food. I personally feel that making peace with our food is very important and if someone is at peace to use any kind of raw agave, then so be it. Just speaking for myself, i cannot be at peace using any kind of raw agave now knowing this new information.

Again, speaking for myself, i love fruits and fruits love me, lol.... I feel sad about the raw agave because i used it so much but happy to know what is going on now. I just pray that they are honest when they sell food and stop marking raw when this isn't really raw or forget to mention that the food is processed!

ps. I am just more careful with raw agave now and if i am to buy this again, it would be the purest form that i can find.

[Baby Bird]

Yeah, disappointing, but Agave syrup is not sweet liquid kale :)

I like, raw knitster, view it as an indulgence (honey, too, for that matter).

[Rawcstacy]

I like, raw knitster, view it as an indulgence (honey, too, for that matter).

I also view it as an indulgence.
Raw dates, honey, & fruit can still cause insulin spikes, so I'm using less and less of these as time goes by such that I when I do use them they taste even sweeter.:D

[GoingtoRAW]

Heard it many times before. I don't care. I don't use agave because it is a health food or because it is low-glycemic, which it is not. My SIL has type 2 diatetes and agave sends her blood sugar through the roof.

I use agave, honey, and maple syrup because I have a serious sweet tooth that must be indulged or I would likely not continue to be raw. Perhaps at some level in my raw journey that will change. Until then, I use these items because they are NOT white sugar or high-fructose corn syrup.

I'm with you RawKnitster... I also have a serious sweet tooth that must be indulged! Honestly I only use Raw Agave for my smoothies because if the fruit that I put in is not sweet enough I have a hard time getting the smoothie down. So I don't see myself quitting it anytime soon although I will be happy when I get to the point where I can take my smoothies without the Agave. For me that will mean that I am getting my sweet tooth under control!

[Rawcstacy]

I'm with you RawKnitster... I also have a serious sweet tooth that must be indulged! Honestly I only use Raw Agave for my smoothies because if the fruit that I put in is not sweet enough I have a hard time getting the smoothie down. So I don't see myself quitting it anytime soon although I will be happy when I get to the point where I can take my smoothies without the Agave. For me that will mean that I am getting my sweet tooth under control!

But for your health's sake please try to use raw honey instead of agave or maple syrup (also boiled not raw).

[freelee]

The only sweetener I would recommend is date sauce - soaked blended dates
Honey is for the bees and is not good for blood sugar levels, raising them too quickly and agave is cooked unfortunately.

[Rawcstacy]

The only sweetener I would recommend is date sauce - soaked blended dates
Honey is for the bees and is not good for blood sugar levels, raising them too quickly and agave is cooked unfortunately.

I'm not sure if I'll ever completely wean myself away from honey forever, but as per post#15 in this thread, dates (I also soak them) are my preferred sweetener.

Dates with "raw chicks", of course, are even better.:D


BTW, I Like your new avatar photo.;)

[SevenKindsOfCookie]

I use agave, honey, and maple syrup because I have a serious sweet tooth that must be indulged or I would likely not continue to be raw. Perhaps at some level in my raw journey that will change. Until then, I use these items because they are NOT white sugar or high-fructose corn syrup.

But if agave syrup is just as bad as white sugar and hfcs, then what's the point? The only difference is that you spend more money for the same results.

[SevenKindsOfCookie]

Dates with "raw chicks", of course, are even better.:D

This is a raw vegan forum!

[Rawcstacy]

But if agave syrup is just as bad as white sugar and hfcs, then what's the point? The only difference is that you spend more money for the same results.

Yes, that's why should use dates (1st choice) or honey (2nd choice), but please stay away from the agave!


Dates with "raw chicks", of course, are even better.:D

This is a raw vegan forum!


I WASN'T referring to baby chickens:eek:, however my dear Swedish friend, if you study idioms, you'll find it very PUNny!!!:D

[SevenKindsOfCookie]

I WASN'T referring to baby chickens:eek:, however my dear Swedish friend, if you study idioms, you'll find it very PUNny!!!:D

I know very well what you meant :P I was going to ask if you blend them up into a smoothie but I figured that would be crossing the line a bit ;)

[Rawcstacy]

I know very well what you meant :P I was going to ask if you blend them up into a smoothie but I figured that would be crossing the line a bit ;)

Yes it would cross the line, I'd have to call the FOOD POLICE!:eek:

[GoingtoRAW]

But for your health's sake please try to use raw honey instead of agave or maple syrup (also boiled not raw).

I may try honey - I think I tried it before but...I don't remember. I have also used fresh ginger as a sweetner for my smoothies. Like I said - I only use Agave for my smoothies so it's not a major issue with at this point. When I make recipes for my "treats" I use raw honey.

[Baby Bird]

SevenKinds, I prefer agave as a sweetener even though I'm not 100% raw right now. I have a food sensitivity to cane sugar that causes me major gastro-intestinal trouble if I consume it! Agave is a way for me to have a little neutral-tasting sweetness in something without the agony. I find that honey has a distinctive flavor and maple syrup spikes my blood sugar in its own awful way. I usually go cheap and don't bother with the "raw" version of agave, since it isn't really.

[Diana Cda]

You guys have made me decide to try date syrup in teas and clear drinks again. I used to use pitted "cooking dates" as they're called, whose syrup just didn't go well in tea or lemonades, etc. Perhaps the deglet dates I've been using in last couple of years would be better.

I usually blend up the softened dates with the date soak water (the syrup) but I can separate them next time and isolate the syrup. The softened dates need the extra water to blend properly and using plain water also "waters" down the flavour but if I get something that will work in drinks because date paste just doesn't and stevia grosses my taste buds out <g>, then that might be the way to go regardless. I'll figure out how to put back some of the lost flavour into the date paste.

I'll have to try to make date syrup with my deglets now and then I'd be free of agave. Way to go if it works! :)

[GoingtoRAW]

We can all worry ourselves to death but the fact is that unless YOU or someone YOU actually know personally is growing or packaging the food, you cannot honestly say that you know where it is coming from, bottom line. We read things all day long and yes, there have been studies but have YOU or someone you've known done those studies? Probably not.

I know that all I can do is make safe choices from what I know or think I know since I am one of those people that doesn't grow or package my food. I pray over and then eat it and don't worry. :)

I'm with you christinajade! I use to obsess about whether or not something is really raw, or really organic, whatever. I had to stop. I have to do the best I can to make the right choices and hope and pray that what I put into my mouth is the right thing! Sometimes obsessing over something can paralyze you. We all need to chill a little bit.

[Raw Angel Mom]

I may try honey - I think I tried it before but...I don't remember. I have also used fresh ginger as a sweetner for my smoothies. Like I said - I only use Agave for my smoothies so it's not a major issue with at this point. When I make recipes for my "treats" I use raw honey.

If you use agave for your smoothie, i find frozen mango and very ripe banana does the trick and make the smoothie very sweet.

Just a suggestion!

[wholefoodie]

you might want to check out - www.organicsareforeveryone.com for date syrup. it has a much better texture than you can make at home.

[roseyonnex]

I really like making date syrup - little water, dates and blend. You can strain it if you want through a nut milk bag. Keep it in a bottle to be used like any other syrup.