What do all you think of GM food????

[Robthom4392]

I purchased a box of organic grapes but they are seedlees, just wondering what all you think about fruit that has been GM in this way and would you eat it????




thank you

[sport]

That is not GM. That is just selective breeding. That has been practised for thousands of years.
I know that seedless grapes are not the best as the poor plant is tricked in to producing fruit but it is not GM.
I would not touch anything genetically modified and I would prefer it if my grapes have their seeds (and their reason for living) intact but I will eat them if there is nothing better about.

[Revvell]

As Sport says, that's not GM. It's bred specifically to not have seeds which is waaaaay different than GM. Google GM so you'll understand the difference.

If I know something is gm, I don't touch it. Problem is, we don't know. From what I've read, all soy is now gm.

[beckx]

As everyone said, seedless grapes are selectively bred... seedless stuff is weird but if you love grapes and that's all you can get, I say eat them.

RE: genetically modified foods, studies on GMOs are coming out, and it's not looking good:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/12/monsantos-gmo-corn-linked_n_420365.html

[sport]

Problem is, we don't know. From what I've read, all soy is now gm.

We are much better protected over here. Most of it is banned and if it is included they have to tell us on the label.

[Revvell]

O.k., I'm moving. They don't have to tell us here ~ yet! Weird how people are so trusting. Sickening, actually.


We are much better protected over here. Most of it is banned and if it is included they have to tell us on the label.

[sport]

O.k., I'm moving. They don't have to tell us here ~ yet! Weird how people are so trusting. Sickening, actually.

You do know that I was boasting. I love to boast.

[Revvell]

Pffffftttttt!!!! ;)



You do know that I was boasting. I love to boast.

[kaybee]

yeah sport--someone told me that Monsanto actually tried to SUE ireland for ireland banning monsanto stuff in the country, or something to that effect ! monsanto needs to die.

[sport]

I was reading a report in the financial papers recently about Monsanto sales being down and I was delighted. I hope that they loose a fortune and rot.

[Tsurugi_Oni]

I don't see anything wrong with GM necessarily. All it is is consciously manipulating genes. What you gotta ask is what they're manipulating, and the ethics of owning a patent on life.

[Revvell]

s/he says, tongue in cheek ~ I hope.

[kaybee]

Wow...I cant believe that anyone concerned about their health would be in support of GM foods... GM is not natural selective breeding, rather its taking the genes out of one organism and putting them in another. Or genetically modifying plants to be immune to particular herbicides so the whole field can be sprayed with those herbicides and everything BUT those plants be affected/killed. or... or.. or... bad news! its messing with natural design. the sorts of things that GM produces are things that would never be produced in nature or even by selective breeding. When we start taking genes out of one thing and putting them in another, were messing with the very integrity of nature and creation. Not to mention the "suicide seeds" aka "terminator seeds" that are intended to be marketed to farmers in 3rd world countries that CANNOT have seed saved from them because there is a "killer gene" inserted into the plant that will make the seeds sterile. Not to mention the havoc and destruction potential when interbreeding with similar domestic or wild plants can occur...the devastation this can cause because of interbreeding with wild and with domestic related plants is phenomenal.

...quoted from the Greenpeace website...
"The fact is, Terminator technology takes a massive risk with our food supply, puts poor farmers into a near-servitude relationship with seed salesmen, and benefits only the multinational corporations like Monsanto which promote it."

or from time magazine:
"After tweezing out a toxin-producing stretch of DNA from a noncrop plant, gene scientists managed to knit the lethal genetic material into the genome of commercial plants. They also inserted two other bits of coding that would keep the killer gene dormant until late in the crop's development, when the toxin would affect only the seed and not the plant. But because the seed company needs to generate enough product to sell in the first place, the scientists included one more DNA sequence--one that repressed all the sterilizing genes they had just inserted. Once they had grown all the seeds they needed, they would soak them in an antibiotic bath that neutralized the genetic repressor--rendering them infertile."




i mean--WHY would you even create a seed like this? MONEY MONEY MONEY. monsanto trying to make more MONEY. they sell roundup and then make plants that are genetically modified to be immune to it so they can sell more pesticides... sounds really environmentally friendly! NOT!

THATS GM. NO THANKS. NO THANKS TO ALL OF IT. GM is NOT ecologically sound, nor is it a holistic attitude that encourages better crop husbandry, not to mention the possible health implications of these GM'ed plants in our bodies. NO THANKS.

haha sport--yeah monsanto can ROT, and all their seeds can ROT with them

[sport]

I don't see anything wrong with GM necessarily. All it is is consciously manipulating genes. What you gotta ask is what they're manipulating, and the ethics of owning a patent on life.

I am vegan and so do not want fish genes in my tomato. I want my fruit to be fruit.
Besides, they do not yet know what effect GM foods have on the body. I have read that animals, if given a choice, will avoid it.

[wanabelean]

I don't know what GM is but particularly a seedless grapes are nutritious too. The only difference is that seedless are more convinient to eat cause you don't have to remove something inside your mouth and more advisable to be eaten by kids.

[Tsurugi_Oni]

Like you said kaybee, not even selective breeding is natural selection. Natural vs. GMO isn't a measure of food nutritional value.

You always have to ask the question "How did they genetically modify the food?" To crop all GMO's into one giant evil category isn't fair. I agree a lot of GMO aint used in a "right" way, but I'm not against the technology itself.

Plus, nobody forces 3rd world countries to use GMO. It obviously benefits the people who grow the seeds, or else they wouldn't do it. We live in a society where nobody wants to participate in food production, so Mosanto comes and enables us to live that way. Without Mosanto we couldn't live the lifestyle we do. While GM crops aren't hollistic, neither is intensive agriculture, so I try not to be so critical of Mosanto personally.

I'm *partly* sympathetic with their policies too. Do you expect a company to invest millions in research, and not gain any returns? How do they expect to fund future research without profit?

As long as people are okay with mono-farms, agribusiness, and hypermodern lifestyles, Mosanto is a necessary evil.

[beckx]

Plus, nobody forces 3rd world countries to use GMO. It obviously benefits the people who grow the seeds, or else they wouldn't do it. We live in a society where nobody wants to participate in food production, so Mosanto comes and enables us to live that way. Without Mosanto we couldn't live the lifestyle we do. While GM crops aren't hollistic, neither is intensive agriculture, so I try not to be so critical of Mosanto personally.

whoa, so many incorrect assumptions here. please educate yourself about the impact of GM crops on farmers, and the role of the world trade organization, world bank and international monetary fund in what is grown and how in third world countries receiving 'aid'.

when a country receives aid from the world bank it will be required to do structural adjustment, which can involve restructuring the economy to focus on growing cash crops. often with this kind of restructuring farmers will be forced to use GM seeds and will be required to pay a royalty on replanting and use chemical fertilizers and pesticides. this is often done in collaboration with dismantling programs like seed saving. in fact, monsanto will often take native seeds, genetically modify them, and patent them - then sell them back to farmers. people are not only losing their livelihood but they are starving to death because of monsanto and WTO/IMF/world bank policies.

we live in a society where many farmers can't make it, where farmers get subsidies for growing monoculture crops that deplete their soil, where many farmers are put out of business by monsanto, or sued by them on 'patent infringement' grounds because their crops become cross-pollinated with their neighbor's GM crops. it is just untrue in the first place to say that we live in a society where no one wants to participate in food production - no idea where you came up with that one. farms all over the world are failing because of monsanto, and are being replaced with huge agrobusinesses.

please, please, please, educate yourself on this and stop spreading misinformation.

[Vrindavan]

fruits with seeds are closer to wild species.

and i eat the small seeds as well.

[sport]

Without Mosanto we couldn't live the lifestyle we do. .

I have to totally disagree with this statement.
If you asked me for another word for EVIL I would say Monsanto. I think that they are the most evil force in the world at the moment (and that is putting them before the terrorists). I say this because I think that terrorism only effects this generation but Monsanto are going to effect generations to come.
They are spreading disaster.
I will give you one example. If I have a conventional farm and do not use GM but my neighbour does and some of his pollen floats over and contaminates my crop do you think that I am the injured party. I would think so but instead they have forced through laws that allow them to be able to sue me and win.
The normal practice in farming for thousands of years is to eat a percentage of your crop and save the rest to reseed but they sell seed to farmers in poor countries and then they find that the seeds of that crop have been "fixed" so they will not grow again and the farmer has no choice but to go to monsanto again the following year and every year after that.
Google Monsanto Exposed and these are just 3 of the many links that come up.

http://www.anhcampaign.org/news/monsanto-exposed-at-copenhagen-for-profiteering
http://www.organicconsumers.org/monlink.cfm
http://www.organicconsumers.org/monlink.cfm

[Revvell]

... but I'm not against the technology itself.

Which is your right.




Plus, nobody forces 3rd world countries to use GMO.Really? You KNOW that for sure?




It obviously benefits the people who grow the seeds, or else they wouldn't do it. Operative words ~ "3rd world country." These people will do most anything to make money and don't have the capabilities we do to do the research to know what's happening.


We live in a society where nobody wants to participate in food production,SO untrue! Monsanto is SUING people TO MAKE THEM use their seed! Are you kidding me??? The are so MANY farmers out there who've had farms for generations being FORCED or, having to give up their farms because some of Monsanto's seed has blown onto their lands.


so Monsanto comes and enables us to live that way.Enables?




Without Mosanto we couldn't live the lifestyle we do. And we'd be happier and healthier for that.



While GM crops aren't holistic, neither is intensive agriculture, so I try not to be so critical of Mosanto personally. You're not only not critical, you are supportive. Don't be a hypocrite. Tell the truth.




I'm *partly* sympathetic with their policies too. Do you expect a company to invest millions in research, and not gain any returns? How do they expect to fund future research without profit? That's not even an issue. They've got more than profit. When they sue farmers because they've found crops grown with Monsanto seed on it, it's more than "profit", it's greed. Monsanto is pure greed.




As long as people are okay with mono-farms, agribusiness, and hypermodern lifestyles, Mosanto is a necessary evil.Evil is never necessary just by the nature of the word.

[streetsurfer]

For those interested in seeing a little on the history of one GMO crop, the potato's foray into it for a short term, keep an eye out for the airing of The Botany Of Desire, Micheal Pollan, on PBS.

[Tsurugi_Oni]

Yes, I'm sure nobody is forcing 3rd world OR first world people to use GM seeds. We use GM because it works, simple as that. It allows monofarms to thrive, which allows us to eat and live the way we want. Maximizing productivity, diminishing losses, and returning handsome profits are a strong incentive.

Mosanto suing people over seeds growing on their property is a separate ethics issue all together. I've read some of these cases, and I'm not going to decide cuz it's not like I was there to observe the truth. It may be greed, or it may be them taking a stand. The law around GM crops does pose many problems we haven't been ready to deal with tho.

Sure without intensive agriculture we'd be healthier. But in a free country, that's not what we've chosen. We've chosen intensive education, agriculture, modern living, innovation, and competition. Right or wrong we've chosen to go along this path, and Mosanto simply enables us to do that.

We've chosen to have metropoli where there's not an ounce of food production within the city. This allows amazing business efficiency, fast communication, networking, run perpetually, allow specialization, concentration of knowledge, and many other things. Right or wrong this is how we like to live. To balance this we need an opposite extreme on the food system. We could easily triple the number of farmers and have all the organic food we want. But that's not the trend for a reason, simply because its not important enough as an ideal.

War isn't a nice thing, but I'm not going to criticize the war machine and not the people who allow it. In an ideal democratic republic they coexist, so you can't blame one and not the other.

[DopeRawAbundance]

I kinda agree with what Tsurugi One is gettin at. Consider Monsanto the messenger. You don't shoot the messenger, you solve the problem they're bringing to your attention. It's like when you're growing a garden. If you have a pest problem, you don't kill the messengers with pesticides. You restore the natural integrity of the soil, get healthier plants as a result, and the messengers will go away. (that pun was sickeningly related to the subject at hand).

I'm going to fight the problem by growing my own heirloom food and being more environmentally conscious in general. Maybe it'll catch on and we will transition to a world Monsanto can't thrive in.

[Vrindavan]

Monsanto is doing the pollution and creating external cost,
removing the source means removing Monsanto !

[RawKnitster]

You know those annoying little plastic stickers with a 4 or 5 digit number that are on every fruit and vegetable sold in stores... ? They tell a story.

4 digit number beginning with 8 is standard, non-organic.

5 digit number beginning with 9 is organic

5 digit number beginning with 8 is genetically modified.

[OnMyJourney]

You know those annoying little plastic stickers with a 4 or 5 digit number that are on every fruit and vegetable sold in stores... ? They tell a story.

4 digit number beginning with 8 is standard, non-organic.

5 digit number beginning with 9 is organic

5 digit number beginning with 8 is genetically modified.

I just read that on GRHF via Lazy Environmentalist. I never knew before today! I'll definitely be paying attention.

ETA: I didn't see the part about the 4 digit number starting with an 8 being standard non-organic though...for instance regular code for non-organic bananas starts with a 4.

[Tsurugi_Oni]

DopeRawAbundance, excellent analogy!! Treating symptoms is good for an emergency, but without treating the cause then all you do is recreate the same. Cut the branches and the tree will grow more to replace it.

I'm well read in all that IMF, capitalistic modernization of 3rd world nations, all that fun stuff. Do I think that many times people buy into deals without reading the fine print? Most certainly. But many times they're not FORCED to (Unless you're talking communist nations). They have the choice of being nearly powerless, living subsistence, and being ravaged by defiency and disease.

The simple fact is, is that in a capitalistic democratic republic, nobody forces people to make these choices. We could of easily stayed a largely agrarian society since the revolution (well.... as a self-enclosed system sure). But we CHOSE to move along the path of modernity because we LIKE it!! That's the thing about America, it's ultimate tool for self-expression, for right or wrong. People choose lawns over gardens. They choose nuclear family instead of extended. A person has the choice fo driving 10 miles to get a candy bar, wasting gallons of fuel to transfer 4oz of food. Then they blame corporations for transferring millions of pounds of food over long distances in a MUCH more gas/pound effiency rating than the average consumer and being "environmentally harmful". It's sickening actually.

We have freedom of choice. We could easily own acres of land each, grow our own food, and not have to ever see another human being again. But we don't, we CHOOSE to live the way we do.

So to make it seem like Mosanto is creating monofarms, destroying the world, and is evil is misleading. If they didn't have a market, then they couldn't exist. And they only have a market because the people decide that it benefits them.

Plus, even if we did move away from intensive agriculture, places like China won't. So when it comes to a geopolitical debate, how do we compete with a nation that ISN'T free, and has very "relaxed" ethical standards? We could be a happy healthy vegan nation in 2nd nation status. Native Americans could of lived a happy hollistic life, until the White Devils came and forced them to change their system. Doesn't matter if what you have is a perfect internal system if someone from the outside can just trample over it.

Some companies are making GM rice that creates beta-carotene so 3rd world peasants won't become deficient. Extensive testing has to be done to make sure it's safe, but Im not stupid enough to condemn GM when I haven't spent 6 years of my life learning about it.

I look at GM like I do mushrooms. As a rule of thumb I'm not going to go pick up and eat a mushroom. But with careful examination, and re-examination by experts, they are wonderful delicassies.

[Revvell]

Tsurugi_Oni,

You know, you can type here until your fingers fall off and I will rarely agree with you and I'm not going to argue with you. Monsanto = greed and destruction of all that's good to my understanding of life. That's all I've got to say.

[Tsurugi_Oni]

That's fine. To each his own.

[solarliving]

A little bit about Monsanto. The company isn't just responsible for Genetically modified foods, but Bovine Growth Hormone along with other noxious products. In my opinion, Monsanto needs to be wiped off the planet.

From Link Below:

"Despite saccharin's cancer "propaganda" in 1981, in 1985 G.D. Searle & Co. purchased Monsanto, taking the company deeper into pharmaceuticals and the sweetener industry. NutraSweet, saccharin's competitor, was now owned and marketed by the same company - Monsanto."


http://www.sweetpoison.com/articles/0406/monsanto_the_creator_of_n.html

[T-Bird]

kinda agree with what Tsurugi One is gettin at. Consider Monsanto the messenger. You don't shoot the messenger, you solve the problem they're bringing to your attention. It's like when you're growing a garden. If you have a pest problem, you don't kill the messengers with pesticides. You restore the natural integrity of the soil, get healthier plants as a result, and the messengers will go away. (that pun was sickeningly related to the subject at hand).

You need to research monsanto a little more - this is not just a company producing pesticides. They are the nearest thing to umbrella corp yet - no way to know how far that hive is buried.....

[sport]

I think that their aim seems to be to get control of the world's food supply and they will stop at nothing to achieve that goal.
It is a pity. The technology could have been used for the betterment of the world instead.

[Revvell]

I think that their aim seems to be to get control of the world's food supply and they will stop at nothing to achieve that goal.
It is a pity. The technology could have been used for the betterment of the world instead.

True that. Greed and power.

[kaybee]

Like you said kaybee, not even selective breeding is natural selection.

um. i definitely didnt say that. i said
GM is not natural selective breeding, rather its taking the genes out of one organism and putting them in another.

theres a WORLD of difference between what you quoted me as saying and what I said. My point was that the stuff that they do in GM is nothing that we could ever achieve through "natural" selective breeding. "Regular--i.e. NON-GM" selective breeding (selectively bred by human beings) is something that I consider "natural" when compared to "GM" selective breeding.

[Tsurugi_Oni]

Relative to the environmental pressures which typically affect breeding habits without human intervention, selective breeding is far from a "natural" process. I understand get what you're saying tho, I just don't know I can use "??natural??" as some sort of marker for good/bad.

Civilization can be seen as unnatural. Marrying an unhealthy partner and having children. Using fire to cook, irrigation, space shuttles, sedentary lifestyle through farming, etc, relative to existence untouched by humans.

In my mind, the only question is if something is effective or not. We're not constrained by the same limitations other animals have, and so we shouldn't live by their reality. We should live the reality of being a human. Unlimited potential, imagination, creative prowess, logic, conscious living, etc. Kind of the Star Trek philosophy haha, one day living in space colonies may be the norm :D

[kaybee]

wow...only interested in whether something is "effective" or not?... what about the long term consequences? GM is bound to have long term consequences, if not genetically (though likely there will be this too), then in terms of more environmental degradation from people buying GM seeds that are modified to be herbicide and pesticide resistant so that they then go douse their acres of crops with herbicides and pesticides, rather than seeking and using more sustainable, ecologically-sound farming methods, or in terms of a host of other impacts.

[Tsurugi_Oni]

Yes, "effectiveness". Effectiveness means long term also, and incorporation within various levels of "systems". If you limit your parameters to not include these than what you're doing really isn't effective, now is it?

What long term consequences are you talking about GM having? We could easily GM one species of plant to be EXACTLY like an already existing species. So really the argument shouldn't be against GM, it's what we're using it for that needs to be debated.

Monoculture farming far preceeds GM, so that's not really a fair argument. It's like saying Microsoft is making people buy technology and not live a "sustainable" life by releasing new technologies. If people want organic, they'll have it. But obviously the perceived benefits of organic don't outweigh the perceived of monoculture, so no change is going to be made. Chinese food thrives in the US because it's damn tasty, and nobody is forcing people to eat McDonalds. No McDonalds flourished without people to buy it's products. No Mosanto can thrive without people to believe in its products.

If you ask me, Mosanto is simply a product of the lack of Cultural Identity within many modern countries. The guiding principles which direct the actions, and development of nation have been lost. An example of this would be amazonian subsistence tribes, who would never plant a GM plant because it completely goes against their culture and framework of what it means to exist.

[EarthMama33]

I was reading a report in the financial papers recently about Monsanto sales being down and I was delighted. I hope that they loose a fortune and rot.

I hate those bastards!

[EarthMama33]

For those interested in seeing a little on the history of one GMO crop, the potato's foray into it for a short term, keep an eye out for the airing of The Botany Of Desire, Micheal Pollan, on PBS.

There are a couple of interesting documentaries I have seen about Monsanto lately.

Bullshit
Life running out of control
King Korn

They were eye opening, to say the least. I suggest that every person who is interested in their health and the health of the planet, to watch these documentaries.

[Vrindavan]

hi

best if you can link to the videos too, thanks

[sport]

Bullshit
http://onebigtorrent.org/torrents/4571/Bullshit-Documentary-about-Vandana-Shiva

Life running out of control
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erF8xNnWT-E

King Korn
http://www.onestopdownloads.com/member-files/753663693/King+Corn+2007+LiMiTED+DOCU+DVDRip+XviD-LMG+TheTorrentSource.org.html

There are 2 pages of of downloads about Monsanto on this site.
http://onebigtorrent.org/search/monde+monsanto.

[sport]

My tag line is a quote from Gandi but I think that he could have written it for Monsanto.