can smoothy cause heart prob.?

[marc]

hi all.

ok i just did myself once again a great smoothy.love it

kale/spinash/carrots/banana/roman lettuce...a bit off stevia..MMMMmmmmmmmm:D



but i have read somehwre and cant find it again that some veg if you eat to mutch can cause the blod to cloth..to get a lot tickier..cause off some vitamine K...

is this true...? and what is those veg.?

becasue wit my heart that is block in some arteries it might not be the best thing at all.

marc.

[sport]

The latest that I read on Vitamin K is that it has wonderful anti ageing qualities.
It seems to be present in the cabbage family of veg and greens.
I did not read anything about heart problems or clotting.

[sport]

This is the list
Food Serving Vitamin K (mcg)
Olive oil 1 Tablespoon 8.1
Soybean oil 1 Tablespoon 25.0
Canola oil 1 Tablespoon 16.6
Mayonnaise 1 Tablespoon 3.7
Broccoli, cooked 1 cup (chopped) 220
Kale, raw 1 cup (chopped) 547
Spinach, raw 1 cup 145
Leaf lettuce
(green), raw 1 cup (shredded) 62.5
Swiss chard, raw 1 cup 299
Watercress, raw 1 cup (chopped) 85
Parsley, raw 1/4 cup 246

This is the site that I was reading last night.
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/vitaminK/

[Revvell]

I have arrythymia's (sp) and smoothies are what help, not hurt ~ me, anyway.

[marc]

did found this..

i think its wen people take mediacation like me..plavix and aspirine it could be call for prob if to mutch.mmmmm

http://www.squidoo.com/vitamink








marc

[sport]

I feel that they are talking about supplements and the danger of over supplementing if you are on blood thinners.
I think that it would be hard to get too much from wholefoods.

[sport]

This is the RDA

Adequate Intake (AI) for Vitamin K
Life Stage Age Males (mcg/day) Females (mcg/day)
Infants 0-6 months 2.0 2.0
Infants 7-12 months 2.5 2.5
Children 1-3 years 30 30
Children 4-8 years 55 55
Children 9-13 years 60 60
Adolescents 14-18 years 75 75
Adults 19 years and older 120 90
Pregnancy 18 years and younger - 75
Pregnancy 19 years and older - 90
Breast-feeding 18 years and younger - 75
Breast-feeding 19 years and older - 90

[marc]

:confused::(

http://blog.nutritiondata.com/ndblog/2007/01/broccoli_wars_v.html


i do take aspirin and plavix and some cholesterol and blod pressur pills.

so not sher anymore about my smoothy full off kale and spinach..

jeeee i love it a lot.

they say take the same amouth every day off vit k..but hard to keep up.

ho well

i gues i will have to go in some other kind off smooothy until i am off those medication.

wen you are diabeteic and have herat prob,,there so mutch thing you cant eat its sad. even in good healthy stuff.


marc

[marc]

try to find new veg to make my smoothy wit..that d have a lot less vitk.

kale is not for me for this time sadly..:confused:..i wont start to take one amouth every day and do blod test to see what is the best amount etc.

will just do something hesle.

cucomber..celery etc i gues.wont hold as mutch

marc

[Dimond]

Think your wasting time and energy worrying about this. Raw will heal you. The stress over worrying about everything you're consuming is more toxic than the food. Stick with raw and soon you won't need meds. You'd be better off cutting some out now, like aspirin. Supplements are better. But of course you need to make sure to do the research and do everything else recommended for heart conditions (besides meds). Also would help if you work with a natropath or nutritionist that is familiar with the raw diet and heart issues.

[T-Bird]

Breast-feeding 18 years and younger - 75
Breast-feeding 19 years and older - 90

:eek::eek::eek:

I cut my kids off at 6 months!!!

[sport]

I have a feeling that anyone under 18 who is breast feeding is not going to be the type to be checking on the rda for vit K

[Tirza]

I have an uncle in the hospital with an advanced case of Congestive Heart Failure. He has gone on the doctor-recommended diets and taken the medications for many years, but it was still a slow slide to where he is now. At this point they only offer him a year (max) with pain control. They can't do surgery on him or anything else that will help. It is so sad to see this. The doctors don't want to tell their patients to get onto a diet that will actually do something for their conditions because they know that most people would never do it anyway. So they give them pills to try to stave off the worst of it and slow the progression. Since my grandfather also died of this disease, I am naturally concerned for my own possible susceptibility. I asked my GP about the swelling I experience in my ankles as that is a symptom of CHF. She sent me for an echo cardiogram and I am hearing the results tomorrow. I was hoping to deal with this by preventive measures, but I may just be into treatment mode now.

Meanwhile I have been renewing my commitment to tweaking my diet to NOT CHEAT and even remove as much added oil as possible from my food preparation. I have been spending time reading articles and watching YouTube videos by Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn who treats heart patients with a totally plant-based diet. It might be worth your while to try and get information from him on this. He has scientific tests with data showing total reversal of serious heart conditions. There are pictures of people's arteries with serious blockages and then pictures of the same arteries totally cleared.

Here we can only tell you anecdotal stories, which are fine, but if you want technical medical information from a renowned doctor who is himself committed to the vegan diet, he might be the one. I don't think he is technically Raw, but I'm sure he wouldn't oppose it. At least he can give you info from the totally vegan view and from medical science that might help you to determine if there is real cause for concern with some vegetables.

All the best.

[marc]

hi tirza.

that book you are talking about is just great.

i got a fe books...like cadwell and ornish or the china study..same...all plant base and no oils. no avocadoetc....great books.

some people dont no what this meen..but wen you have block artery like me....100%.....95...90.90.65%...this is not like veryone helse easy to say raw will heal you...it can also kill you depending what you eat wen your are that far in the disease..even raw.

they put 4 stenst in..but i still have that 100 and that 65% there..the 100 the heart did some bypass my itself..but those are extremey small and realy easy to block.

so that is why the no oils..noi meat no dairy.

and wen i ask about the vit k and get a response that i over think about it...ya sher..easy to say..but wen 4 cardiologiste said to me it could have been your last ride..and that been twice they say that to me..we sher dont think the same way.

even in raw food there some bad stuff for some people..we are not all made and have the same health.


marc..i am only 39 and would like to get at least onother 20year if possible and more..think positive but have to be honest to myself to..i have heart prob.

[Tirza]

marc,
I hear where you are coming from and I encourage you to go full steam ahead on everything vegan and raw with greens and such that you know don't cause concern. Then find out directly from the most authoritative sources you can about the rest of them that you are worried about.

Your case sounds very serious and I hope you will keep posting with your experiences so we can all see the direct results of how this diet is working for you. It could be a great encouragement to others, and if there are issues that need to be warned about, we can be aware of them too.

I know that dietary measures take a longer time than surgeries and pills. But in the long run, the patient may end up actually healed. Not just a stop-gap.

PS Out of interest, what part of Canada? I wonder if you are in a place where there may be doctors who are open to these dietary plans?

[stiggs]

:eek::eek::eek:

I cut my kids off at 6 months!!!

hehe :D

[marc]

PS Out of interest, what part of Canada? I wonder if you are in a place where there may be doctors who are open to these dietary plans?

actualy they dont think i should go full raw and keep eating a bit off meat..but that is becasue they dont think people can stick to plant base and will eat wathver.

i am in ottawa/ontario region..and i am part and patient off the ottawa heart institue..one off the best all around place for the heart..and they have some reaerche there to part offf the ottawa univeristy.

i will be going to see there nutrisioniste next week..so will se what she have to say if there somebody that should no its her.will see.

and will go mabe in those meething all those heart patient get together onece a month..so will try to go and seee if some off them have try the all plant diet etc.

i no some off those people do no about ornish diet and saud it work but extremely hard to follow 1000%.

i gues will see..and even me hard time to follow 100%.

i am even not raw 100% because do eat a bit off ''wok ''cook veg. and i am honnest about it...but i dont eat meat or dairy...but some restaurent i go vegan havea bit off oil in some meal..that is a prob.


marc

[Tirza]

I went to a nutritionist at my hospital here in Toronto. She asked that I make a diary of everything I ate for 3 days before I came. I did, and also brought her my full raw menu, with explanations and recipes so she could see exactly what was in it all.

She looked it over and was very impressed. The only thing she had to add was for me to try to cut down on the nuts as they have a lot of calories. I couldn't argue with her about that. She said I certainly had NO worries about enough protein or calcium on my menu even though there was no dairy or meat listed. So I'd say she did know what she was talking about.

What impressed ME was that SHE didn't have a fit over my diet. She knew before we met that I wasn't interested in seeing her little plastic models of meat portion sizes, etc. I told my doctor that there wasn't much use for me to go to a conventional nutritionist because they would be telling me to eat things that I would not eat anyway. He told me that she would accommodate her recommendations to whatever dietary needs I had. If I was vegan, she would work with that. If I was kosher, she would work with that. That is why I agreed to see her and I wasn't disappointed. However, she didn't tell me anything I didn't already know so I didn't see the point in going back regularly - other than for the encouragement and reinforcement of seeing someone regularly. I'm sure that would help, but it's a long subway ride for me.... I was just happy that she was so flexible.

You're right that most doctors or nutritionists would not recommend this as they know people wouldn't follow it. But if they see someone who will, they are pretty happy.

[SharonC]

Marc,

There is so much confusion about this topic - hope this helps.

First, plavix and aspirin work differently than coumadin (warfarin). This explains the difference...

"Anticoagulant drugs, also called anticlotting drugs or blood thinners... fall into three groups:
Inhibitors of clotting factor synthesis. These anticoagulants inhibit the production of certain clotting factors in the liver. One example is warfarin (brand name: coumadin).
Inhibitors of thrombin. Thrombin inhibitors interfere with blood clotting by blocking the activity of thrombin. They include heparin, lepirudin (Refludan).
Antiplatelet drugs. Antiplatelet drugs interact with platelets, which is a type of blood cell, to block platelets from aggregating into harmful clots. They include: aspirin, ticlopidine (Ticlid), clopidogrel (Plavix), tirofiban (Aggrastat), and eptifibatide (Integrilin)." http://www.answers.com/topic/anticoagulant-and-antiplatelet-drugs

Coumadin (warfarin) works by inhibiting vitamin K-dependent coagulation factors. Plavix and aspirin work on the platelets to make them less sticky (nothing to do with with vitamin k). This doctor's answer explains...

"Plavix and aspirin work on the platelets to make them less sticky. There are no specific foods or vitamins that interact with these two medications. So, you don't need to be concerned about taking a multiple vitamin that contains vitamin K.
Warfarin (Coumadin) is probably the "blood thinner" you were considering when asking about vitamin K. To make four of the necessary blood clotting proteins, the liver must have access to sufficient amounts of vitamin K. Warfarin thins the blood by partially blocking the action of vitamin K in the liver. If a person takes too much vitamin K in the diet or as supplements, it can make warfarin less effective.
Since you didn't mention warfarin, vitamin K intake should not be an issue for you." http://www.aolhealth.com/heart-disease/ask-an-expert/plavix-aspirin-and-vitamin-k

Second, there is a lot of misinformation about the consumption of greens while taking coumadin (warfarin). You don't need to worry about this because you are not taking this drug, but it is good to know. Greens do not 'thicken' the blood (they are great for the blood!) - they simply contain vitamin k which is essential for helping the liver to regulate blood clotting (so that we do not bleed to death - a good thing!), and also extremely necessary for the health of our arteries and bones (all good)!!!

This article explains why it is actually good to include vitamin k foods in your diet when taking coumadin... "So, if I am on warfarin, should I avoid eating foods that contain vitamin K? By now you should know that the answer to this question is "no." It is a common misconception that people on warfarin should avoid vitamin K. As is indicated above, reducing your vitamin K intake can cause your INR to increase and may make it more difficult to control. Rather than avoiding vitamin K, you should maintain a consistent intake of vitamin K by maintaining a consistent diet. In other words, from week to week, you should eat the same types of foods." http://www.clotcare.com/clotcare/vitaminkandwarfarin.aspx

There are many foods and supplements that especially help with keeping the blood thin and prevent clotting. Lots of water, lemon juice, grape juice, tomato juice, garlic, ginger, cayenne, omega 3 fats, vitamin E, tumeric, bromelain, etc. Nattokinase is used by some as an alternative to drugs. But, many of these are not recommended if also taking the drugs because of the risk of blood becoming too thin. They are also not standard medical recommendations. People who choose this path do so on their own unless they have found a doctor/health care provider who is not strictly practicing standard medicine.