Anyone using kettlebells?

[theresaann]

I am new to going back to raw, but have been using kettlebells on a vegan diet for about 2 months. OMG are they an amazing workout! Just wondering if anyone else has discovered them on raw....Can't wait to see for myself.

[Revvell]

Yup!! I yam. And mace, and ropes and Indian and iron clubs.

[RawHealthyBeauty]

It is the best workout!!! I discovered it not that long ago from the Famous Revvell!! Thanks!!! :)
I'll be using these no matter what age I am!! :)

[Revvell]

It is the best workout!!! I discovered it not that long ago from the Famous Revvell!! Thanks!!! :)
I'll be using these no matter what age I am!! :)

And, you'll just be getting younger. :D

[Shine]

Asked for one for Christmas - can't wait to get started! Been checking out different routines to do when I do have one.

[Revvell]

What size/brand you getting?


Asked for one for Christmas - can't wait to get started! Been checking out different routines to do when I do have one.

[theresaann]

This is a copy of a post I did yesterday, regarding kettlebell workouts:

I use a 15 and a 25 pound bell, you can get these at sporting good stores, even target has them now. The dvds I use are available online, these are the ones I'm using now. They are AMAZINGLY effective. I can't say it enough:

"The Kettlebell Goddess Workout", available at dragondoor.com
"Ultimate Body Sculpt and Conditioning," at ontheedgefitness.com
"Art of Strength Newport" available at artofstrength.com
"Kettlebell Dynamics," by Amy Bento, at collagevideo.com

These workouts are great. I rotate through them weekly. The Art of strength one is TOUGH!!! But they are ALL advanced and effective. I really like the Ultimate Body sculpt one from Lauren Brooks. ITs just a really overall effective workout. But all of these are good.

I recommend using at least a 15 pound one to start to make sure you really get a good workout in. Less than that might be ok for learning, but you want to challenge yourself to get the best results.

I love this workout so much I'm going to start a rawvegan and kettlebell blog! Peace!

[Revvell]

Personally, I'd suggest you start with a 8-10 pound to get form correct first. Also, do NOT get Everlast which are available in many stores and online. The handle is too close to the bell and they're very hard to use and dangerous. My recommendation is Ader.

Most of the vids I've seen they talk about form and then lose the "crown to coccyx" alignment and by the time you're through, your neck hurts. The other thing I notice is they don't use legs but use mostly arms (and yes, heavier kb's will end that). Third thing is shoulder pack. Many people using kbs are unnecessarily hurting themselves because they're pulling their shoulders out of "pack".

My suggestion for learning really good form ~ Steve Cotter's dvd collection or go to YouTube and watch the vids by Zenkahuna and you may see the difference between what he and his students do compared to what many vids show.

I've not seen the ones Theresaan recommends so I'm speaking generally. Saw one woman on YouTube who, when finished with her training threw her kb on the ground. Idjit. Always place your kb down consciously. Never throw it.

I've been playing with kbs for about a year or so now.

[Shine]

What size/brand you getting?

I have asked to a 10lb kb. Didn't specifiy brand but looking at your last post, I will elaborate on my request.

Whenever I start a new program I like to have a vid to go by - actually see what is happening and get talked through it.

I like having the different routines to alternate with, keep the muscles guessing :)

[Revvell]

I have asked to a 10lb kb. Didn't specifiy brand but looking at your last post, I will elaborate on my request.
10#'s is good. That's what I start with and still use it for working out new moves. If you're doing a snatch or clean or Turkish get-up you want something lighter.




Whenever I start a new program I like to have a vid to go by - actually see what is happening and get talked through it. A teacher who knows what s/he is doing is better than a vid. A vid can't critique and she what you're doing so you get the most benefit and to help prevent injury.



I like having the different routines to alternate with, keep the muscles guessing :)They don't need to "guess" with kbs. The top thing to do are swings. After you perfect them with a lighter weight, you will want to go heavier and use one and two hands.

This is a really good routine ~ Zenkahuna (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uIm8qHu56w) Part of it is pretty advanced so, do what you can easily do. Get wrist bands to learn to do the cleans.

Enjoy!

[Shine]

Looks like I've got some more research to do! :) This is shaping up to be a great new adventure!!

[Revvell]

Yep! There are a lot of good vids out there yet, the form needs a bit of tweaking. You'll see many where they've got their necks "cranked" instead of keeping it in alignment with the rest of the spine. Also, because they ARE using lighter weight, they've not learned to use leg drive to lift instead of arms. They've also not learned how to lift the abdomen. There's more to it than people think. Good that you're researching. LOVE IT!


Looks like I've got some more research to do! :) This is shaping up to be a great new adventure!!

[theresaann]

Yes I was super conscious of form because at 45, I just didn't want to hurt myself! I learned early on to really use legs and gluts to stabilize my spine. Three of those vids (except Amy Bentos-she says on that one, to her credit, not to start with that one, but to get her intermediate one which has more instruction) have detailed instruction, but I agree, I imagine its not as effective as having a coach right there with you to really micro-position one to learn the very best form for them.

So far in the almost three months I've been using kbs, I haven't had any strains or injuries at all-only my glutes get sore...and thats ok with me!

What a fantastic and FUN workout this is. I can't see myself ever going back to the "free weight and treadmill" routine. No way!

Peace! :)

[revdrcyn]

My trainer MAKES me use them -- I have been lifting weights for 30 years and I really DO NOT like kettlebells . . . AND, I really do get how effective they are - awesome results!

[Samalmarr]

Dumbbells work fine for me.

These kettle bells are good for gym work but they are expensive and you need more than one weight costing a few hundred pounds over the course.

stick with compound movements. Plus dumbels.

[Revvell]

KB's are way more versatile than free weights. Unlike free weights, we don't isolate our movements so the whole body gets worked quickly, easily, efficiently. Less time, more benefit.

You need more than one dumbbell, barbells, plates ~ costing quite a bit of money ~ to fully train with them.

I've done both. Use to train in a gym 5-hours a day, 5-7 days a week with free weights and machines.

Now I do primal play outside of a gym ~ anywhere I want... with only a couple of kbs and bodyweight movement and get GREAT workouts in wayyyyyy less time.

[Defiance]

I have been using kettlebells for a few months and love them! My friend Bob Garon in Chicago runs Synergy Kettlebell Kamp, and he is also high-raw. He sells wonderful professional kettlebells at really good prices (for what they are--they aren't cheap! :D )

His website is http://www.alwaysbelieve1.com

Give Bob some love--he's a great health crusader & has a really wonderful fun personality!

[Revvell]

Here's where I get mine:

These are the Troy: http://store.kettlebellinc.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=55 I suggest beginning with the lighter ones to make sure your form is correct before moving on to the heavier weights.

They have what they call the premier and also the pro style. The first two in the Pro style are less expensive than where Defiance gets hers; the rest are more expensive. Interesting.

Ader makes top quality kb's in a variety of sizes. Whatever you do, do NOT get Everlast. I purchased a pair and the handle is too close to the bell and I kept hitting my fingers.

[theresaann]

I just wanted to reconnect about the kettlebells. I have to say, I've been working out, with a few months off here or there, for about 27 years, even teaching "aerobics" way back when in the eighties (remember leg warmers, big hair and waist high leotards??...;) and I have to say, I get such a better workout from using kettlebells TWICE A WEEK for only TWENTY MINUTES at t time, than I did from an hour a day of free wt/cardio work, Plus I'm less stiff.

I try to do three 30 min sessions a week, but if I don't have time, I don't have to feel guilty about it, cause those two really are enough. This gives me time to do yoga on alternate days, which I felt I had to sacrifice when working out with free wts and cardio because, you know, yoga's not a "real workout" and I wanted to get buff!

I'm taking the HKC in March (Hardstyle kettlebell certification) through dragondoor.com just cause I really want to perfect my form for best results.

I use a 15 KB for upper body and snatches, 25 for lower body and 35 for swings and some lower body like dead lifts. Yes, they are pricey, but my gosh! Its the best workout I've ever done and its a whole gym in one bell!

This stuff has reshaped by body in ways that nothing else has. And its lifting my butt and I have abs....at 45, I'll take it!! Peace~

[BobGaron]

I have been using kettlebells for a few months and love them! My friend Bob Garon in Chicago runs Synergy Kettlebell Kamp, and he is also high-raw. He sells wonderful professional kettlebells at really good prices (for what they are--they aren't cheap! :D )

His website is http://www.alwaysbelieve1.com

Give Bob some love--he's a great health crusader & has a really wonderful fun personality!

Hey thanks Christy for the love. :)

When it comes to kettlebells, the answer is yes. Professional Grade Kettlebells, manufactured exclusively for the American Kettlebell Club, are high end steel bells. All kettlebells bells are the same size regardless of weight. that way your form will not change when you move up in weight. The handle is an extremely ergonomic 32-33mm. The shape of the bell allows extended, high rep sets with as much comfort as possible. Extended sets are timed with reps noted. This process is at the core of true Kettlebell lifting. Short sets have no place in the AKC methodology.

The bell handle and body ergonomically conforms to the contours of the hand, wrist, and forearm. This is an important aspect of the top lifts (Jerk, Snatch, Long Cycle). With access to a Pro-Grade Kettlebell, progress will definitely be quickened.

Personally, I don't use anything else for my own training.

More here: http://Alwaysbelieve1.com

[Revvell]

All kettlebells bells are the same size regardless of weight. that way your form will not change when you move up in weight.

That's great except for me, part of having different sizes is being able to adapt which, as humans, is a REALLY good thing to know how to do.

Extended sets are timed with reps noted. This process is at the core of true Kettlebell lifting.

Which is the way it's done with barbells and dumbbells. Sounds as though you've adapted your kb training to conform to what bodybuilders do. What's the point?




Short sets have no place in the AKC methodology.

Why not?




Personally, I don't use anything else for my own training.



Well heck, I'd use what I sell too.

[BobGaron]

That's great except for me, part of having different sizes is being able to adapt which, as humans, is a REALLY good thing to know how to do.


Which is the way it's done with barbells and dumbbells. Sounds as though you've adapted your kb training to conform to what bodybuilders do. What's the point?



Why not?



Well heck, I'd use what I sell too.


You've missed the point and clearly have not noticed that we are the furthest from anything bodybuilding as possible. Timed sets are NOT performed when working with dumbbells and barbells. On the contrary what is used is a given rep count instead of working for time as in Girevoy Sport which practices for 10 minute sets on average... all without ever setting the bell down or stopping the set.

I apply the Bruce Lee method to everything I do. Paraphrased: "Use what works and leave that which does not."

Kettlebells have been around for a few hundred years and have survived among many different cultures. The main culture they derive from is Russia. Kettlebells have made their journey into the U.S., post cold war, around the mid 1980's.

Most women begin with either 8 or 12 kilo where most men begin with 12 or 16 kilo. It shouldn't take long to progress to the next size bell if you practice regularly.

There are 2 general schools of thought when it comes to Kettlebell practice- "Hard Style" and "Girevoy Sport or Fluid Style". We generally practice a blend of both. I believe in the Bruce Lee method: “Use only that which works, and take it from any place you can find it.”
“Don't get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”

1. Hard Style- more explosive, very ballistic and unorthodox. Trains usually for certain number of reps and sets in various Swings, Snatches, Cleans, Presses, Turkish Get-Ups, Sots Presses, Bent Presses, and more.
-made popular by Pavel Tsatsouline

2. Girevoy Sport or Fluid Style- much more fluid & graceful, more relaxed, endurance oriented, trains for time and number of reps within a given time limit for either the Biathlon which is the cumulative score of both the Jerk and Snatch or solely a separate event called the Long Cycle(clean and jerk)
*Girya = kettlebell, Girevik = kettlebell lifter

Russian Kettlebells are the single best piece of training equipment that will show you the most muscular strength and endurance, joint stability, cardiovascular strength and endurance, power, agility, coordination and simply the ultimate overall fitness conditioning that your body could ever receive. If there is one training piece of equipment that I can use for the rest of my life and never anything else again regardless if it was a sophisticated machine, tractor truck tire(for flipping), cables, ropes, dumbbells, barbells, medicine balls or whatever- the Kettlebell would be it!

Kettlebells are, simply put, a tool. Keep in mind that there are many tools out there and many roads to fitness. This is just one of those tools and will take you down a great, great road.

In order to get good at something you must practice, practice, practice. The body (brain and nervous system) remembers actions that it performs. In order to improve and get better at something that action must be repeated. If you want to be good at basketball you must throw the ball at the net thousands of times. If you want to be good at swimming you must get wet and perform the strokes for thousand of laps. If you want your body to get strong and fit then you must practice movements and protocols that will make you that way. You must keep it consistent and keep it constant. People who exercise only 2 or 3 times a week and expect to see changes are not going to see anything much at all. Being active and moving toward fitness strength takes consistent daily effort alongside an even stronger nutritional lifestyle. Eating 5-6 small meals a day will never accomplish this because every time you eat you spike your insulin which in turn stores fat. The only thing going for most people who abide by that eating plan is that they typically eat very few calories, but who wants the burden of counting calories and eating that many times during the day? Not me! No one’s schedule allows that. I’ve previously written a lot more about nutrition on my blog so I won’t tangent off on that now. If you’re interested in reading that info go here: http://BobGaronTraining.com and you can subscribe to my blog updates.

Remember to keep your intensity high during your workouts in order to experience all the benefits of efficient strength and full body conditioning training. When you stretch out the time intensity lowers and you will never reap all the rewards or it will surely take you much longer to do so. If you want to know what I mean just go into any local gym and look around. Most folks have been trying for years to get into shape, or that last bit of flab off, but can’t seem to do it. They even try gym hoping, but of course that won’t work either. It’s not the venue- it’s the person and their protocol. Don’t be stubborn- be intelligent and learn to work that way too.

[Revvell]

O.k., so now I have the background of kb's which I already know. You didn't respond to my questions. Give Defiance my love please.

I said "adapt" you agreed. I asked why "no short sets".... I mix 'em and match 'em. I wanna do short, I do short; I wanna do more, I do more. I use what "works" and leave the rest. heh!

What's a "short set" in your opinion?

[BobGaron]

O.k., so now I have the background of kb's which I already know. You didn't respond to my questions. Give Defiance my love please.

I said "adapt" you agreed. I asked why "no short sets".... I mix 'em and match 'em. I wanna do short, I do short; I wanna do more, I do more. I use what "works" and leave the rest. heh!

What's a "short set" in your opinion?

I'm not understanding why you are so argumentative. I did indeed answer your questions.

To expound...

Our focus is strength endurance. Plain and simple... and something short sets can never give in the same.


What's a "short set" in your opinion?

A short set is anything that takes less than a minute or two to complete.


The "style" of kettlebell training I practice is called Girevoy Sport or G.S. It is a fluid style where the body works as efficiently as it can to move the weight throughout the given range of the desired movement. Our goal is to primarily achieve an overall strength endurance so we only utilize the necessary muscles without purposely and needlessly over exerting as taught by other schools or styles. G.S. has been the original and predominate kettlebell training style used by those who developed kettlebells in Russia and all other 'styles' of kettlebell training have derived from it.

GS and Movement Efficiency
Overall Kettlebell movement GS style is less about how much weight one can move, but moreover how long one can move a given relative weight without breaks, but the exception is a rack rest and overhead lockout rest when performing Snatches, Jerks, and Long Cycle with the Kettlebell.

The movement itself is performed with the most efficient method so therefore an aggressive hip thrust is not preferred. That would engage more muscle & nervous system recruitment which translates to a higher energy expenditure. That leads to weakness in efficiency. If a runner started a marathon sprinting they would not last the entire race. The same is true with GS strength endurance training. Lasting is key.

Performing a movement with ONLY the necessary muscles need to complete the movement is what we're after and any leak in overall efficiency is a overusage of energy. We find ways to survive and last in the most efficient manner possible. That is the overall goal. If we can last and the next guy/gal can't- we win and/or have a successful workout.

[Revvell]

How is asking a question ~ which still hasn't been answered ~ being argumentative?

My training? Check out Zenkahuna on YouTube.

Enjoy!

Revvell

[BobGaron]

How is asking a question ~ which still hasn't been answered ~ being argumentative?

My training? Check out Zenkahuna on YouTube.

Enjoy!

Revvell

Tone is everything... anyway...

I've seen all of his videos. I do enjoy watching those and have great respect for him; however that style of training is a bit different from what we do in Girevoy Sport. Additionally the techniques are more efficient and more consistent with the traditional Eastern European style.

[BobGaron]

I'd like to give you an idea of a touch of the difference. Let's look at the technique of the foundational movement in Kettlebell practice. The swing is but a supporting movement in order to strengthen the posterior chain primarily as well as the anterior chain to give support to the posterior. In the movement the body and brain become stronger and more efficient in lifting in that motion so that a natural progression to either the clean or snatch can be made quite effortlessly. Again it is entirely about efficiency and moving efficiently in these movements from one to the next.

The legs do in fact bend- it may have been difficult to see in the baggier pants I was wearing. In the forward bending of the swing the spine remains nuetral in that my head follows the bell instead of looking up or straight. When that happens, as in other teachings, the cervical spine impedes. Instead of driving with the legs as in a push press, which recruits the quads a bit more than needed or desired, the hamstrings and glutes are actively recruited to move the bell throught the motion of the swing from between the legs to chest height. The hips are driven upward by these primary muscles as fast as needed in order to create momentum on the bell enough to get it to between chest and eye level height. The arms are used as little as possible and are only a support to the lower body in the entire movement.

1. AKC Master Coach Mike Stefano teaches the G.S. Swing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lri9IVhOJP8

2. Honored Master of Sport Valery Fedorenko(who is what Tiger Woods is to golf and what Michael Jordan was to basketball, Valery is to Kettlebell Lifting Sport) performing the snatch and you can clearly see the blend of the swing and the snatch flow together: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaeVAszF7xM


As for the form...

1. When you start, bring the bell between ur legs and go down allowing gravity to bring the bell down without trying to get it there. Afterall it's goin down on its own anyway so let it.

2. When it goes between ur legs have the middle of ur forearms and high on ur inner thighs meet (kinda like the stance football players get into when they hike the football) and then thrust your pelvis & hips upward, which will create momentum to bring the bell up to just above chest height.

3. You will do very little with your arms. In fact relax both arms and hands as much as possible.

4. Don't have a death grip on it and when you move the weight up, from the thrust of ur hips, ever so slightly pull the bell inward so ur arms very slightly bend, but not too much.

5. When u thrust the bell up with ur legs and hips be sure, and this is VERY IMPORTANT, that u squeeze ur glutes(butt muscles) as hard as u possibly could. I mean squeeze those suckers so hard that u can crack a walnut with ur cheeks. AND u can practice that with ur friends for some weekend entertainment... SERIOUSLY though that's how hard u gotta squeeze ur glutes when u thrust the bell upward. That way ur lower back turns off as much as possible and ur core turns on.

*IF u feel ur lower back work a lot, first don't be alarmed cause it will be working, but just consciously squeeze ur glutes harder. We just don't want ur lower back to be working moreover ur hamstrings, glutes, and mid-back/shoulders. The bell should feel weightless in ur arms and hands due to the momentum u generate from ur hips.

[BobGaron]

This was a great conversation last night and Rev I really appreciate your difference of opinion. It's quite refreshing to experience what others have learned and regularly practice. We are to always, always, always be learning. Once we believe we have arrived or cannot learn anymore we must truly know that we indeed know nothing.

Again thanks for the posts. I really appreciate and enjoy your conversation. Let's keep it going shall we... and anyone and everyone else please chime in as well. We're all learning and supporting each other here together as a team. :)

Bob

[Aleesha Sattva]

i've always wanted to try kettlebells... i think they'd be great to work with. but alas... i have not as of yet...

thanks for all the info in this thread... it's inspired me!

[BobGaron]

i've always wanted to try kettlebells... i think they'd be great to work with. but alas... i have not as of yet...

thanks for all the info in this thread... it's inspired me!

You are VERY welcome Aleesha! :)

Lemme know if you have any questions regarding them, where to get them, how to use them, etc. I'm always around and always excited to help. :)

-Bob

[Aleesha Sattva]

Thanks Bob!!! (((hugs))) I appreciate it greatly!

[BobGaron]

i've always wanted to try kettlebells... i think they'd be great to work with. but alas... i have not as of yet...

thanks for all the info in this thread... it's inspired me!

I noticed in your side bar your saying: "Fasting and meditating under Grandmother tree". I LOVE it!!! :) I intermediate fast 18 hours every day and then eat over a 2-4 hour period in the evening. I've been doing this for years and absolutely love it and have never felt better.

I'm incorporating much more raw foods into my diet now this year. I'd say I'm never less than 50%, but am aiming for 85% looking at my week as a whole.

I'm hoping to learn a lot from this forum.

[theresaann]

Wow, Bob, thanks so much for taking the time to clarify all those distinctions. I did not realize there were as palpable differences between KB styles as you are describing. Thats very interesting.

I totally agree with you regarding the effectiveness of KB's as a training tool. NOTHING compares. I will never go back to the free wt/cardio routine. This clearly is a form of exercise one can learn to practice at progressively deeper levels their whole life.

One trainer on the internet called KB's the "thinking person's workout." Couldn't agree more.

Peace!

[BobGaron]

Wow, Bob, thanks so much for taking the time to clarify all those distinctions. I did not realize there were as palpable differences between KB styles as you are describing. Thats very interesting.

I totally agree with you regarding the effectiveness of KB's as a training tool. NOTHING compares. I will never go back to the free wt/cardio routine. This clearly is a form of exercise one can learn to practice at progressively deeper levels their whole life.

One trainer on the internet called KB's the "thinking person's workout." Couldn't agree more.

Peace!

You are VERY welcome! If you want to know more and/or anything else just ask and you shall receive. :)

Thanks,

Bob

[theresaann]

Thanks, Bob!

I just got Lisa Schafers newsletter where she has started a 30 day/10,000 swings challenge. That's in alignment with what you mentioned on your blog about doing LOTS of swings to really get the movement down.

Then I saw the vid of "GS" swings. I wasn't clear on the difference between the hardstyle swing, other than no "hip snap" at the top of the movement and the hand position seems a little different (that was a one handed demo).

I'm trying to imagine using the KBs with a more "fluid" motion as you describe, but am having trouble with that. I do get the squeezing the glutes hard part, though. Is it squeeze the glutes but no hip snap?

Anyway, this 10,000 swings in 30 days challenge is calling me....she breaks that down into 333 swings/day, or about 450 swings 2 days in a row, then a rest day. I did 150 today with a 35 pound KB in 3 sets of 50 doing one handed and two handed combos, with 30 seconds rest between. That was actually quite challenging, esp. cardio-vascularly.

Doing 450 swings in a day would break down to 9 sets of 50...sheesh. Maybe I could break that up into like 5 sets in am, and 4 more later, etc. 10,000 swings, with a heavy enough bell, has got to produce some results in 30 days. Lisa says the results are amazing as long as the bell is heavy enough....Have you ever done something like this?

How cool to connect about KB's on a raw food forum...such a great combination! Peace, Theresa :)

[~liz~]

This is good! Lots of interesting thoughts, opinions, and information on this thread!!! Nice!!!