Ranting and Raving -- consider yourself warned

[RawTruth]

From a long-time raw fooder, I just have to get this stuff off my chest:

Since when is it okay for recipes to flood the raw magazines, books, forums, and blogs that include NOT RAW ingredients like:

- nutritional yeast
- maple syrup
- yacon syrup
- etc.

... so that new-to-raw people think it's okay because well-known raw chefs concocted them?

Since when are most people going to admit that these are NOT raw and not argue about it. They're not, they're not, they're not:

- agave
- cashews
- cacao
- yerba mate
- etc.

... so new-to-raw and even experienced raw are getting their glycemic levels wacky (doesn't matter what the agave people say, it's not low!!), they're getting toxins with their cashews which aren't/can't be raw unless you're spending practically your whole mortgage paying for them, and taking their adrenals and energy on a wild ride with toxic cacao. Addictions remain or are begun ... but oh, doesn't it taste yummy!! Addicted even though they say it's not. There's a reason why everyone gets wild-eyed and rabid about their raw chocolate. (Follow the money, people.) Go find and read Paul Nison's article on chocolate. It'll open some eyes, for sure.

And when are people going to stop looking for superfoods in bottles, heat-sealed plastic bags, and in endorsements by charismatic raw-millionaires who just happens to have an MLM you get in on, like:

- goji berries
- maca
- lacuma
- etc.

... and understand that the only super foods are fresh, ripe, organic whole foods in their natural forms? If we don't live in the tropics, the Aztecs, or wherever, these are not local foods to us anyway, so how can they be that super? Aaargh.

Dare I add to this rant my thoughts/observations about eating mostly fruit? Hmmmm ... nope. Think I'll save that for a whole 'nother thread!

Am I stirring the pot on our nice little RFT? Maybe, but I know what I know. And I continue to hate seeing newbies (or not so new) fall under the hypnosis of the marketing/entertainment-eating raw culture/getting stuck in raw gourmet recipe black lands.

Like Revvell, I know many/most of the "players" in this lifestyle. I also know the one or two legitimate science-based, research-proven people and organizations, too. I've done tons tons tons of my own research over the last six years.

Why why why?

[michigan roman]

GREAT POINTS !!!! as usual teaching / informing , in rawtruth we trust !!!

your right on the money rt , and since back 4 years ago when i went raw my number one authority

i / we greatly miss your presence here . you really should have a big say in the raw galaxy up there with anyone else , actually imo beyond everyone else . a big site / video / forum / tv show / etc

your the perfect leader = smart and good :cool:

hey misslinda just showed up like old times , she kicked off a fasting thread .
heres a link



http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showthread.php?t=55540

[RawTruth]

Ha! That Misslinda! I'll have to jet over there and check it out. There's gotta be some kinda trouble that can be gotten into! Well, maybe I'll check it out tomorrow. I'm about in for the night ... yep, what a party pooper ... and early one for now. Gotta rest up because ... drum roll ... tomorrow I'm heading into the weight room to try to put back on some of the 20+ lbs that have abandoned me. (Weight room = living room where my hand weights are laying in the corner. High tech. Cant' beat it.)

[michigan roman]

i cant remember this guys name , hes like an ex military guy / college wrestler

he used to be serious into weights . then got inot nothing but high rep body weight stuff and put on more size / muscle that way with certain movements like legs apart push ups and some type wide stance squats . and reason i bring this up as a life time exerciser / athletic type is since seeing the guy ive gotten into doing alot of squats with out weights and have determined them to be excellent . they help stretch lower body / back . and also build thigh strength and size . easy to do there in your livingroom gym

ive found walnuts to put weight on me , and oh wait a minute here :
your in cali the home of a current masssive fresh walnut crop :cool:

[MrsJohnnyG]

You are fabulous! Love your rant! :D I may consume the occasional *gasp* non-raw food now and then, but I'm under no delusion about it and won't tell myself, "Oh, it's okay, it's RAW; after all, _insert_wealthy_raw_guru_of_choice SAYS it's raw"... you are right on about the marketing/money aspect of it.

Honestly, I don't trust something to be truly raw unless it grew on a tree or plant in my organic back yard. I certainly don't trust something to be raw if it's shipped from 2,000 miles away in a heat-sealed plastic bag, possibly irradiated thanks to our government who is ONLY looking out for our best interests :rolleyes:, traveling in the back of a UPS truck that reaches 125 degrees. No cacao addictions here, thankyouverymuch!! ;)

xoxo

[RawKnitster]

Consider the pot stirred. You warned, yet I just had to look. :rolleyes:

[snoops]

I totally agree with you that all those things are not raw. So I am not being taken in by the pseudo gurus. However in my transition to healthier food I am appreciating some of those things that allow me to make oh so much healthier than the SAD version of things. I'm not sure I would be able to do it. To be honest it is a struggle even with the addition of those suspect food items.

Will I ever get rid of them and just eat real foods? Not sure at this point. Am I healthier at 80% raw than I was 100% SAD? Oh yeah!!:)

[lovenlife]

Bravo Rawtruth!!!

Yes yes yes. I couldnt have said it better if I worked a year on it.

I agree is all I can say. Wealth,chocolate sales,superfoods in bottles, powders, concoctions, players oh my!all buzzwords

thankx for psoting this!!!

~as I head to the fridge for an orange~real food,real raw

[JennaHoneyBear]

I guess it's because people want their raw cake and to eat it too

It's very hard for some people to go the raw route (me included). It's comforting, I suppose, to be able to eat some old comfort foods without the guilt. Heck, that's what LOLF is all about, re-creating lots of cooked dishes to get you to stick to RAW. I suppose those kind of foods are good for a transition period, but certainly not for someone running around claiming to be 100% raw.
I suppose it also adds in some creative "fun". For some who love to make food dishes, mono meals aren't very exciting. It's nice to switch it up a bit and "work" for your delicious food and get a great reward.

Could be a raw foodie "phase" that some go through. I know right now that I use some of those foods, but will I still use them when I'm a 100%er in a few years? Who knows how I will feel then?

Also, I suppose people just pick their battles and figure they're eating healthier than they used to

Just some stuff I thought of :)

[lovenlife]

Jenna, I always tell people the "better than" principle. If you eat today "better than" you used to or if you eat a food that is "better than" the conventional sad version, then you are one step closer.

I could go crazy with all the stuff for sale out there. I dont. I just go to the co-op or Traders and buy whole, living, real raw food and eat it. Sometimes I make stuff but mostly eat simple.

Thats how I have had the greatest raw success. If I get into all that heaviness, my body suffers.

[christinajade]

Bottom line, eating truly raw is a life style change. I would agree that eating 80% or even 50% raw is healthier than eating cooked pizza and chicken nuggets and french fries! Most Americans eat crap even when they think they are eating good. I, myself am only 90% raw and I still allow myself some occational things. It is nice to see all those yummy sweet raw recipes. I think the same rule applies with sweets though as it does in cooked foods. Eat in moderation. You can actually be an unhealthy raw foodist if you are eating tons and tons of deserts instead of veggies, sprouted grains, sprouts and fruit.

Its true that you can't trust anything but the fresh stuff. Ugh..

[RawKate]

Thank you for posting this. I do think people often brush this subject under the rug. Truth always prevails.

Is Braggs Liquid Aminos raw?

[snoops]

Is Braggs Liquid Aminos raw?

Apparently not. Google it. There is some controversy about what is actually in it.

[DopeRawAbundance]

I place keeping a good mindstate on a higher pedestal than making sure everything that enters my body is 100% raw. With that logic, I would deem that adding some maple syrup to a recipe isn't gonna hurt me as much as beating myself up over it would.

Ya learn something new everyday, don't make your brain go 'splodin all over the place from, say, making sure all the spices you buy are dried at proper temperatures. Relax, take one baby step at a time.

[snoops]

don't make your brain go 'splodin all over the place .

LOLOLOL - you have such a way with words DRA:D

[RawKate]

Apparently not. Google it. There is some controversy about what is actually in it. I googled. Currently, I am using coconut aminos. http://www.coconutsecret.com/aminos2.html

It is sold at Whole Foods and is really tasty.

[JoyceH]

I place keeping a good mindstate on a higher pedestal than making sure everything that enters my body is 100% raw. With that logic, I would deem that adding some maple syrup to a recipe isn't gonna hurt me as much as beating myself up over it would.

Ya learn something new everyday, don't make your brain go 'splodin all over the place from, say, making sure all the spices you buy are dried at proper temperatures. Relax, take one baby step at a time.

I agree totally! Love your response DRA!

That being said I can totally respect and understand the original post as well. Everyone's on their own raw journey here. After 2+ years of eating high raw, I still like to include some not-raw items like nut yeast, maple syrup, cashews, cacao, etc into my diet. I suppose I'm still transitioning? Anyhoo, no matter where you are on your raw journey, it's all good! Keep up the great work everyone. Let's face it, living a raw lifestyle is not always easy so let's all give ourselves a pat on the back and have a great weekend! :)

{{Hugs!!}}
Joyce

PS - my blog is quite naughty in regards to the original post but maybe someday I won't feel the need for so much crazy gourmet desserts and fancy dinners on the weekends. But for now I'm still having fun :o

[JoyceH]

From a long-time raw fooder, I just have to get this stuff off my chest:

Since when is it okay for recipes to flood the raw magazines, books, forums, and blogs that include NOT RAW ingredients like:

- nutritional yeast
- maple syrup
- yacon syrup
- etc.




Ok, the yacon syrup is news to me. I didn't realize it wasn't raw. I bought a small 8 oz $17 bottle that came from a trusted raw foodie. Oh well......*sigh*...it does taste lovely, like molassis. Still might experiment with it as it might make some yummy gingerbread almost raw cookies :)

[ambermum]

You speak the truth! I do incorporate some of the above items (nutritional yeast, cashews, etc) into my diet but don't kid myself that they're raw and as tasty as cacao is, it's fallacy to portray it as a superfood and I think it is toxic...

[JennaHoneyBear]

Is Braggs Liquid Aminos raw?

That stuff made me sicker than a dog when I had it once! Not good! I had a meal at a raw restaurant once and the food I was eating smelled very funny to me in a familiar way and after I got a headache, I realized I had been eating Braggs!! I had only a small amount before I figured it out, so it wasn't bad.


I place keeping a good mindstate on a higher pedestal than making sure everything that enters my body is 100% raw. With that logic, I would deem that adding some maple syrup to a recipe isn't gonna hurt me as much as beating myself up over it would.


IAWTC!


RawKate, those aminos look very intriguing! thanks for sharing

[lovenlife]

I dont BRAGG about BRAGGS...I have had some foods out there prepared with it and it is sooooo salty. UGH. My body doesnt like it at all.

I dont want my brains splodin all over the place either. hahahaha DoperawAbun...information overload.....ugh

Yes I love life and do the best I can, have what I want to have, live a great life and feel good on rawfoods. Thats what counts.I NEVER want mental anguish to be associated with food again. From that I am set free.!!! How boutchu?

[RawTruth]

Nice comments, folks!

I'm glad you all understood my original intent, which was, aside from releasing some current frustrations(!), basically, a plea for honesty and truth.

I support everyone seeking a healthier lifestyle -- wherever they are on that path. Just giving up animal products, for some people, is a huge step. So they're still eating cooked food ... so what. When and if they're ready to move on, they will.

Same for those eating all or predominantly raw. I've used Nama Shoyu, agave, cacao, etc. myself. But, I knew they weren't raw. Well, that’s not true; not at first for the agave or cacao. I was already a raw fooder when those products came out and believed what the manufacturer/distributor said. But, then, when it turned out they weren't raw, I chose to use them both at times anyway. As my friend Dawn always says Don't sweat it; our worst eating is still better than most peoples' best eating.

The main thing is being honest -- a non-raw product shouldn't be passed off as being raw ... and it shouldn't be okay to list it in a recipe IF the recipe and book are described as raw without identifying it. All they have to do is put parentheses around a short not raw right after the ingredient: 1/4 C. yacon syrup (not raw). That way, then, we can make an intelligent decision.

I'm not putting anyone down. I'm not making a commentary on raw desserts. I'm not ranting about the poor food combining on "transitional" raw diets. I'm not suggesting that 100% raw is the only way to live. I'm just sayin . . .

[snoops]

You are right there. It is very deceptive of companies to put raw on their labels.

[michigan roman]

im glad your flagging it RT . people in this society eat so dirty and take diet so very wrongly lightly that leadership has to develop to teach people how very important diet is

you cant make a perfect tooth / eye / skull out of heated unnutricious mush ,
and the more properly one builds the cells of their bodies the longer their bodies are gonna last

so im glad your teaching us what the unraw things are , then the more quickly they can be phased out of the societys diet and in the process improving future generations lives . the sooner the better

DIET IS BEING TAKEN WAY WAY TOO LIGHTLY ON EARTH

[lovenlife]

and just to add a side note....Victoria Boutenko recently (in honesty and truth) spoke to Matt M. and said she is not all raw anymore

and Frank G. had turkey dinner

sooooo do whatcha want and what works for ya

but yes.....if its raw say it is, if its not then say its not..honesty and truth here here!!!!

[Katie P]

I'm so confused.......RAW cashews aren't raw? & RAW agave isn't raw????

Help a sista out!

[RawKate]

For those interested in exploring this topic further at this time in their raw journey, here is a compiled list of items "raw" but not really raw, which I found very helpful. http://www.purelyraw.com/deadfoodlist.htm

[christinajade]

Wow! Victoria Boutenko isn't all raw anymore. That is so shocking! I mean I'm not judging her but it is just amazing to hear after all those years of being raw. It just might not be a 100% forever thing for some people and thats fine. Whatever works!:)

[RawHealthyBeauty]

Hey RT! I'm glad you said something about this!

[lovenlife]

Wow! Victoria Boutenko isn't all raw anymore. That is so shocking! I mean I'm not judging her but it is just amazing to hear after all those years of being raw. It just might not be a 100% forever thing for some people and thats fine. Whatever works!:)

No she actually taught her kids to COOK so they would be prepared for a mate if that mate was a cook-ie. She said she is going with her body and is actually losing weight now because of it.

And Frankie took alot of flack when he posted about his T carcass on t-giving (sorry).....but He gets to choose like we all do. Honesty tho..cool.

All raw isnt for everybody.

Katie P, No Agave isnt raw....I guess there is some clear stuff that is better but it is all processed.

Most nuts, unless you buy them from a place where they specify to what temp they are heated or not. This requires specialty ones in the stores or online purchasing.

Sad but true.

[rawlight]

...If we don't live in the tropics, the Aztecs, or wherever, these are not local foods to us anyway, so how can they be that super? Aaargh.

For those of us trying to eat local and who are trying to understand how our food choices affect the planet, ie. fuel to FLY the above mentioned superfoods to our neck of the woods AND packaging, this is just not moral. I really don't understand how the 'stars' get away with making money off these products just for those reasons. I think they have created the 'demand' by saying we need them. So we need to take responsibility, too, and just say NO lol!!

Eat seasonally and try to eat as local as possible.

The point is, eat these if you want, but understand the implications of doing so: not raw/wasted resources.

[MrsJohnnyG]

and just to add a side note....Victoria Boutenko recently (in honesty and truth) spoke to Matt M. and said she is not all raw anymore
Interesting... I'd love to know more about that... does that mean she's "only 99%" raw now or much lower or what?


For those of us trying to eat local and who are trying to understand how our food choices affect the planet, ie. fuel to FLY the above mentioned superfoods to our neck of the woods AND packaging, this is just not moral.

Totally agree. That's why, as I said earlier, I don't consider it truly raw unless it was grown in my back yard (or the local organic co-op I buy from each week). (Speaking of which... I just placed my order for an almond tree, apricot tree, two varieties of peach trees, shrub cherry which hopefully will produce actual cherries here, and a couple of apple trees! Soooo excited to harvest my own fruit and nuts from my own back yard!!! :D)

I posted here the summer before last about being dismayed when my order of "raw" food arrived, and the inside temperature of the box was so hot it was steaming (this was the heat of July in Georgia, and who knows how long it had been riding around in the back of the UPS truck). My "raw" coconut oil was completely melted. I can only assume that all $120 worth of "raw" foods were all very much cooked.

[lovenlife]

Yes..it just FEELS wrong to have to send way off somewhere to get stuff. I agree.

[snoops]

Rawlight - Unfortunately eating local for me is wheat and beef. Alberta is the Texas of Canada. I could NEVER have avocado, mango, well you name it!! I appreciate that I could grow and can or freeze but even then its pretty much root vegetables and berries. I wish I could live in the south cause I am really sick of the winter but for a couple more years I am here and then I will be a snowbird so not even living in the south in the summer. My greens come from CA and Mexico. Avocados too. Most fruits from South America in the winter. If I am too be raw - I am a drain on the planets resources. Not sure what else to do though!!:)

[Doxallo]

Just wanted to say that I appreciate this thread. I am new to raw - about 4 months now. I went raw overnight - claiming about 95-98% raw. I began with fruits and veggies primarily and some non-raw things like balsamic vinegar on greens. It is interesting to me that I am probably minutely LESS raw now that I have added nuts.....and agave.....and, well, perhaps some other things that aren't raw. I presumed if it said 'raw' that it was indeed raw. This is perplexing and disturbing. I neer went into this trying to be perfect or 100% raw, and I don't think I will ever be dogmatic about it -- but I so appreciate the information and I guess I need to do a lot more research, especially about some things that I may be able to get for real raw that I could keep in my diet.

Keep the information coming please!! I feel like I've been partially duped and that is NOT a nice feeling. :(

Janice

[lovenlife]

I am always surprised how nuts are allowed to say "raw" on them when they are pasteurized!

[JoyceH]

Rawlight - Unfortunately eating local for me is wheat and beef. Alberta is the Texas of Canada. I could NEVER have avocado, mango, well you name it!! I appreciate that I could grow and can or freeze but even then its pretty much root vegetables and berries. I wish I could live in the south cause I am really sick of the winter but for a couple more years I am here and then I will be a snowbird so not even living in the south in the summer. My greens come from CA and Mexico. Avocados too. Most fruits from South America in the winter. If I am too be raw - I am a drain on the planets resources. Not sure what else to do though!!:)

Hey Snoops, you certainly are NOT a drain on the planets resources for eating a raw vegan diet where many of your foods come from the south. I live in Vermont and I too am in the same boat. Being vegans our carbon footprint is soooooo much smaller than that of our fellow meat eaters. It takes thousands of gallons of water a day to feed a meat eater where it only take a couple hundred for a vegan. It takes 5 times as much land to feed a meat eater as it does to feed a vegan. I don't know the numbers off the top of my head here at the moment but I'm sure you get my drift. So please keep doing what you're doing! If everyone on the planet became a vegan, there would be enough food for everyone on our planet! No one would be starving right now. So keep on supporting and purchasing raw organic produce even if it comes from Mexico, or wherever! :)

Best wishes!

Joyce x

[kyrie]

From a long-time raw fooder, I just have to get this stuff off my chest:

Since when is it okay for recipes to flood the raw magazines, books, forums, and blogs that include NOT RAW ingredients like:

- nutritional yeast
- maple syrup
- yacon syrup
- etc.

... so that new-to-raw people think it's okay because well-known raw chefs concocted them?

Since when are most people going to admit that these are NOT raw and not argue about it. They're not, they're not, they're not:

- agave
- cashews
- cacao
- yerba mate
- etc.

... so new-to-raw and even experienced raw are getting their glycemic levels wacky (doesn't matter what the agave people say, it's not low!!), they're getting toxins with their cashews which aren't/can't be raw unless you're spending practically your whole mortgage paying for them, and taking their adrenals and energy on a wild ride with toxic cacao. Addictions remain or are begun ... but oh, doesn't it taste yummy!! Addicted even though they say it's not. There's a reason why everyone gets wild-eyed and rabid about their raw chocolate. (Follow the money, people.) Go find and read Paul Nison's article on chocolate. It'll open some eyes, for sure.

And when are people going to stop looking for superfoods in bottles, heat-sealed plastic bags, and in endorsements by charismatic raw-millionaires who just happens to have an MLM you get in on, like:

- goji berries
- maca
- lacuma
- etc.

... and understand that the only super foods are fresh, ripe, organic whole foods in their natural forms? If we don't live in the tropics, the Aztecs, or wherever, these are not local foods to us anyway, so how can they be that super? Aaargh.

Dare I add to this rant my thoughts/observations about eating mostly fruit? Hmmmm ... nope. Think I'll save that for a whole 'nother thread!

Am I stirring the pot on our nice little RFT? Maybe, but I know what I know. And I continue to hate seeing newbies (or not so new) fall under the hypnosis of the marketing/entertainment-eating raw culture/getting stuck in raw gourmet recipe black lands.

Like Revvell, I know many/most of the "players" in this lifestyle. I also know the one or two legitimate science-based, research-proven people and organizations, too. I've done tons tons tons of my own research over the last six years.

Why why why?
Bottom Line Raw Truth is you need to CHILL OUT!!! Dogmatism is not going to get you anywhere, and it certainly won't induce anyone else to become raw. Raw is a HUGE lifestyle change for most people. Telling people that they only are going to be eating raw fruits and veggies, only, will have most of them running for the door - a stampede of sorts. It's a PROCESS, one that you have been on for 6 years. Now I know agave doesn't agree with me, through trial and error. And some people have no problem with it. The same goes for all the stuff you've mentioned. Most people's mileage will vary.And if they are smart and observant they'll use their common sense and avoid stuff that makes them feel funky.It's all about balance, which I feel this post of yours was anything but balanced!

Now dogmatism and rules and stressing and obsessing over every single non raw item in one's diet may work for you. One may also enjoy the dramatics that this approach entails. It doesn't work for most, and orthorexia is just as much an eating disorder as is anorexia or bulimia or compulsive overeating. I am sure that is not what you want to encourage.

Your approach to raw food as expressed here would in my view encourage social isolation and not inclusion.It's way too neurotic a space to exist in. Most people have families, friends, and business colleagues who are not following this lifestyle. Is one meant to cut these people out of one's life just because they are not raw?!
Get a grip!!!!!!!

Since you've been on this journey, you know then that your tastes change, just as the foods you are attracted to change quite naturally over time.

This Xmas, I am buying a raw cake which I intend to share with friends. So what it has raw cacao in it? I think that it's probably 100 times healthier than the cooked Christmas sh**te (pudding, hard sauce, turkey etc) I've put in my mouth in the past. Food is part of life, it's meant for enjoyment, as well as health, and cutting yourself off from loved ones in the name of raw purity is just pure stupid, as well as unhealthy!!!

And yes I've tasted goji berries, I don't like them!( BTW GOJI BERRIES are just wolfberries, which have grown wild in England for over 1000 years. They are common in Asian cuisine. So if you've got an Asian neighbourhood near you you're sorted. Or just grow them. Yes wolfberries). But your mileage may vary. And you'd better check your science on food miles, because it's bunk, and it's just protectionism in all it's ugly glory masquerading under a "green" cloak. The concept of Food miles is a pretentious luxury to sap the conscience of relatively "rich" first world consumers.

If by buying goji berries, lucuma, and other products I give the grower in a third world country the opportunity to feed and clothe and house his or her children and extended family and give them an education, bring it right on!!!!!
Transporting these products by air or sea, produces less carbon emissions and less of a carbon footprint as a rule, than buying food that has been trucked from interstate. This is the hard science, and if you want I'll go call the Ministry of Agriculture here in Oz and get you a copy of the study!

People get wild eyed and rabid over cooked chocolate.That's why Cadbury still exists and is virtually recession proof.

I'm not saying that raw gourmet should be the bulk of one's diet.However gourmet of any kind is very expensive, and if you live in a diverse neighbourhood a lot of these things are easier to find. If you buy in bulk and in a group it's way less expensive. You can still pay your mortgage.It's your CHOICE!!!!

Also some people thrive on raw gourmet as part of an overall raw vegan diet. It means that they can still interact with their family and friends,which is just as important to them as the physical health benefits.

Most people are not ascetic, and there is no raw police - last time I checked!

FREEDOM OF CHOICE is the point here! If someone want's to make Cafe Gratitude's entire recipe list - more power to them! Eventually your taste buds and body will tell you they need a break!

If raw chefs want to create recipes with these ingredients (that to you are verboten) it is THEIR CHOICE! It's also your CHOICE whether or not to make that recipe! Isn't that the point of life and being free?! Heaven forbid that being a raw vegan should resemble an initiation into a cult! This is not a religion, let me remind you. Everyone here is on a journey, and will have to find what works for them!!!!

People listen to YOUR body, not just your taste buds, it will tell you clearly what it doesn't like!!!

Vibrant health includes emotional and mental health not just physical. Obsessing over food, and being perfectly raw in perpetuity is deeply unhealthy! THE KEY IS BALANCE and MODERATION!

Carla

[mstrish]

well it the same thing as people say frozen fruits and veggies are raw but thats not true either is it?!

[DopeRawAbundance]

Speaking of which... I just placed my order for an almond tree, apricot tree, two varieties of peach trees, shrub cherry which hopefully will produce actual cherries here, and a couple of apple trees! Soooo excited to harvest my own fruit and nuts from my own back yard!!! :D

That thought has me excited. If you have more room there's some avocado and olive trees somewhere with your name on it. Boy I could use more land.

[snoops]

Thanks for that comment JoyceH. I completely agree with you about veganism vs. meat eating. I just sometimes think I would like to eat more locally. I read the 100 mile diet etc. But I just do not live in a climate conducive to that, like you! And I am so grateful to better transportation and whatever else brings me fresh fruits and veggies because growing up it was apples, bananas and oranges and iceberg lettuce. I remember my Mom loved avocados and maybe once a year we would have one because they were so expensive. I also appreciate that they are still expensive carbon footprint wise. Not sure of the answer if it means I can't eat all those wonderful tropical things.

[snoops]

Oh oh oh - that was my 1000 post. Woo hoo:cool:

[kyrie]

Thanks for that comment JoyceH. I completely agree with you about veganism vs. meat eating. I just sometimes think I would like to eat more locally. I read the 100 mile diet etc. But I just do not live in a climate conducive to that, like you! And I am so grateful to better transportation and whatever else brings me fresh fruits and veggies because growing up it was apples, bananas and oranges and iceberg lettuce. I remember my Mom loved avocados and maybe once a year we would have one because they were so expensive. I also appreciate that they are still expensive carbon footprint wise. Not sure of the answer if it means I can't eat all those wonderful tropical things.

Snoops,

Come Monday I will have all the studies required to debunk the rubbish that is the concept of food miles But here is some info for starters:

http://www.abareconomics.com/interactive/09_ResearchReports/FoodMiles/htm/chapter_3.htm

and....

http://www.abareconomics.com/publications_html/crops/crops_09/foodmiles.pdf

Interesting reading unless you are biased towards only one side of the scientific debate.


Carla.

[Katie P]

If raw cashews aren't really raw, then why do they taste different from roasted?

[Mary Kay]

You can find truly raw cashews on the internet as well as raw cacao etc. Most people know nutritional yeast is not raw, but it is a "living" food.

The reason raw cashews can say "raw" is they're not "cooked" in the traditional sense. They are "raw", but are heated to above what raw foodies consider to be raw, and where many or most of their enzymes get destroyed.

That's why they can say "raw." They're not cooked, but heated.

HTH,

Mary Kay

[Katie P]

You can find truly raw cashews on the internet as well as raw cacao etc. Most people know nutritional yeast is not raw, but it is a "living" food.

The reason raw cashews can say "raw" is they're not "cooked" in the traditional sense. They are "raw", but are heated to above what raw foodies consider to be raw, and where many or most of their enzymes get destroyed.

That's why they can say "raw." They're not cooked, but heated.



So is there any purpose in soaking them? Can the enzymes be activated if they've been heated?

Suddenly I'm so confused! What nuts are truley raw w/o being heated?

[MrsJohnnyG]

That thought has me excited. If you have more room there's some avocado and olive trees somewhere with your name on it. Boy I could use more land.
I've optimistically planted several avocado pits, although I don't think in my non-tropical zone they will actually grow... but hey, a girl can try, can't she?! I would LOVE to have olive trees too (*drool*) and now that you've said that, I'm going to check to see if any will grow in my area!!

Carla/kyrie, I get what you're saying, but RawTruth is soooo not dogmatic like that. This was just a harmless vent. Kinda like how certain common grammatical errors or common mispellings might be a pet peeve... it's annoying, but that doesn't mean you're psychotically dogmatic about it... ya know? I know if you and RawTruth sat down and sipped smoothies together, you would agree on WAY more than you would disagree on. She is a super-sweet, non-judgmental, knowledgeable, terrific person who meant no hard feelings by this harmless rant. It's all good! :)

[RawTruth]

Bottom Line Raw Truth is you need to CHILL OUT!!! Dogmatism is not going to get you anywhere, and it certainly won't induce anyone else to become raw. Raw is a HUGE lifestyle change for most people. Telling people that they only are going to be eating raw fruits and veggies, only, will have most of them running for the door - a stampede of sorts. It's a PROCESS, one that you have been on for 6 years. Now I know agave doesn't agree with me, through trial and error. And some people have no problem with it. The same goes for all the stuff you've mentioned. Most people's mileage will vary.And if they are smart and observant they'll use their common sense and avoid stuff that makes them feel funky.It's all about balance, which I feel this post of yours was anything but balanced!

Now dogmatism and rules and stressing and obsessing over every single non raw item in one's diet may work for you. One may also enjoy the dramatics that this approach entails. It doesn't work for most, and orthorexia is just as much an eating disorder as is anorexia or bulimia or compulsive overeating. I am sure that is not what you want to encourage.

Your approach to raw food as expressed here would in my view encourage social isolation and not inclusion.It's way too neurotic a space to exist in. Most people have families, friends, and business colleagues who are not following this lifestyle. Is one meant to cut these people out of one's life just because they are not raw?!
Get a grip!!!!!!!

Wow.

That's a lot of negative energy, assumptions, and insults that you've aimed at me.

Perhaps the issues brought up in other posts in this thread led you to assume things about my beliefs or judgment that sure weren't in the original post nor in any other of mine here.

For whatever reason, though, you have mischaracterized me. I know it's easy to do when we're just dealing with writing without tone of voice, facial expression, body language -- I've seen things flame up so fast in message boards and, yes, even here back in the old day -- but I think it's most beneficial to assume the best about the poster. And, in this case, the title of the OP and the writing tone I took tagged it as being lightweight/harmless (though the topic of honesty -- which IS the topic -- is important) and I was very careful to be clear about that.

I'm wondering if you read post #22 before writing this. Especially since you believe you understand my "approach to raw foods." If not, maybe you would take a few seconds and do that now?

Anyway, I've spent more time and thought on this than I'd intended. I just want you to know that your assumptions about me are hurtful and your words cruel. I was very much taken by surprise since it's the first mean post I've run into since hanging around again at RFT. I hope it's the last.

[RawTruth]

Interesting... I'd love to know more about that... does that mean she's "only 99%" raw now or much lower or what?This IS an interesting development that I've known about for a while now. Also, a number of other "names" have not been 100% raw for some time, in one case, for years. I've been tempted to start a thread about it -- not to "tattle" (yikes!) but, rather, to discuss -- but have decided not to as it seems too gossipy.

Also, I'm afraid that it'll discourage folks away from the wonderful benefits of raw veganism. So many are struggling to live the lifestyle and reap the rewards of a body that heals, is naturally nourished, and energized. And, so many set raw authors/speakers up on a pedestal as gurus, experts, even idols or, at least, models that they should follow. So, I hesitate. However, the ones who I know and have talked to about this have lived a long time all-raw and found certain aspects that weren't working for them anymore. They're (most of them) not running around eating cheese pizza, but are adding in high-vibrational, sensible, healthy foods -- steamed quinoa & lightly-blanched veggies or baked sweet potato, for example -- or some raw non-bovine dairy. Again, for most, it's after much thought, study, and after having a thoroughly-healed and healthy body by being 100% raw for as long as it took to undo the previous harm done. Yes, there are a few (or, rather, a family cluster) who is eating semi-junk food like frozen yogurt, but the others I know aren't doing this.

Eeeek. Gotta stop!!!!

[michigan roman]

kyrie

how does being 100 % raw as opposed to 90% raw , or any other differing from main stream diet exclude family and friends from ones life ???

it doesnt unless their not true friends and they blow it out of proportion !!!

and the original post here was about raw site / chefs / magazines including non raw items in whats being presented as a raw diet . point being is if you arent presenting raw recipes dont call yourself a raw entiity and mislead people

and rawtruth has helped / lead thousands / tens of thousands of people would be my estimation to go raw since i started 4 years ago . she knows as much about the raw diet as anyone and besides dietary knowledge / hard facts brings wit and fun to the raw society . shes doing as much good as anyone out there in raw circles , anyone

and ide bet youve not seen much of rawtruths stuff on line over the years because if you did you wouldnt be foolish enough to try to school her on the raw diet / way

[hellicat]

This thread is really interesting. I've only been raw 8 months but it's definitely gotten me thinking. I aspire to "100% raw" - whatever that means.

People say that there's a huge difference health-wise between 99% and 100% raw. I think Alissa has also said that. But do these 100% rawbies still eat agave, cacao, etc?

Perhaps the health benefits are best if one exclusively eats fresh fruit and vegetables. No nuts, no freezing, no dehydrating. My goal is to find out for myself - eventually :D

[kaybee]

wow... kyrie--i dont understand why you are frustrated with raw truth..the bottom line she was trying to get as was

"if people are going to put non-raw ingredients in raw-foods recipes, then they should please list in parenthesis that that item is "not-raw," just so that people will have the option whether to put it in or not."

That way if people are trying to stay 100% raw, then they will know for sure whether what they are eating is or isnt raw. Many newbies dont realize these items arent raw. the idea isnt to be rigid, its just to allow people to make *informed* choices, which they cant make if they have been led to believe that all the ingredients in these "raw foods recipes" are really raw, which they arent. I dont see why this is being rigid or anything, its just asking for "truth in labeling!" :confused:

Mary Kay--just so you know, nutritional yeast isnt, unfortunately, a living food either :( it IS rich in b vits, but they do have to heat/kill the yeast before it is packaged and sold.
from another website: Nutritional yeast and the kind of brewer’s yeast you find in health foods stores aren’t living organisms. They’re deactivated, so they won’t ferment into alcohol and they won’t make anything rise. So why do we bother? Because deactivated yeasts are quite rich in nutrients, particularly B-vitamins.

personally i still go through phases of using it, because i like the flavor, and sometimes it means the difference between me eating kale salad or not eating kale salad, but it doesnt make me feel good and i dont think its the best thing for my body.

Also--MrsJohnnyG re: your avocado tree: i live in ireland and had several avo pits that sprouted and started growing in a greenhouse i was using... the one that is left is about 5 feet tall now after a few years. and its much warmer where you are. so i dont know, you might have luck. i dont know if this tree woudl actually fruit here, and the greenhouse isnt tall enough to allow it to grow properly, but where you are, you never know. with a bit of protection, (sheltered area, even with plastic hanging down over it during the winter etc. you NEVER know. there is a lady HERE who says she has a lemon tree that produces lemons! she bubble wraps it during the winter, lol, AND i was told the other day there are people in West Cork (south coast of ireland) that grow BANANAS! so go figure, lol

[kyrie]

kyrie

how does being 100 % raw as opposed to 90% raw , or any other differing from main stream diet exclude family and friends from ones life ???

it doesnt unless their not true friends and they blow it out of proportion !!!

and the original post here was about raw site / chefs / magazines including non raw items in whats being presented as a raw diet . point being is if you arent presenting raw recipes dont call yourself a raw entiity and mislead people

and rawtruth has helped / lead thousands / tens of thousands of people would be my estimation to go raw since i started 4 years ago . she knows as much about the raw diet as anyone and besides dietary knowledge / hard facts brings wit and fun to the raw society . shes doing as much good as anyone out there in raw circles , anyone

and ide bet youve not seen much of rawtruths stuff on line over the years because if you did you wouldnt be foolish enough to try to school her on the raw diet / way

Hello Michigan Roman,

I've been on this site for about 7 years, actually before this site existed, and Alissacohen.com was only a splash page. In fact I'm on this site nearly every day, several times a day, I just don't log in, and I've done this for over 6.5 years. I've seen Raw Truth from when she was a total newbie to this site, I remember when you first joined too. I've seen so many people come and go from this site, plus set up their own sites as well.

Like I said people's mileage will vary, however if someone wants to include things like maple syrup, nutritional yeast etc, and still call it a raw recipe - so what? I think Alissa uses many of these same ingredients in her LOLF book, which by the way I remember speaking to her on the phone about before it was even published.

You cannot deny that the key is balance, balance, balance. And while you may want to ignore the fact that this diet can be isolating when taken to extremes,the fact is it can( because we live in a world where the people we interact with are not perfect, and may not be as tolerant or open as we would like them to be).

Even if I or any other raw foodist starts out using maple syrup etc, this is part of the process. If one wants to use it occasionally, does that mean one needs to go and first ask permission from the raw police?

Why would you make it difficult for someone to stick with the diet by imposing all these rules? It's a lifestyle change, not just a diet, which is hard enough in itself for anyone. Why would y'all make it any harder? Just so one can satisfy someone else's arbitrary standard of pureness? Puhleeze!

To me both your post and Rawtruth's come across as incredibly dogmatic. Even if you don't mean to be. Really it's all about choice!

I frankly have no time for raw percentages. If someone starts off eating 50 percent raw, or is eating 90 percent raw or whatever, more power to them. The insistence that everyone has to be 100 percent raw immediately is just plain ridiculous.

It has to be better than eating nothing for starters. We all forget that we live in a world with a growing global food crisis. Many people die from hunger every single day. While this is occurring daily we here on this forum, sit in our comfort zones and have silly discussions about raw percentages.

How about being grateful for the food you do have? And not making value judgements on others for the choices they make with their food whether it be recipes, or the percentage of raw that they eat. There are children starving to death every day, and they are hungry people in this United States of America, who would love to know where their next meal is coming from - raw or otherwise!.

Start where you are comfortable raw, and work up to what you can manage and then keep upping it from there. Be balanced, and you have a greater chance of success!

No one is being misled. Are we all sheep? We all have an individual responsibility to educate ourselves on what we put in our mouths and not give over the responsibility to a so-called guru or anyone else on a rawfood site.

I've been researching the raw diet from 1999 when I first discovered Shazzie's blog. I don't subscribe to what any particular raw guru or individual or any rawfoodist says on a forum. I do my own research and draw my own conclusions.

Now your mileage may vary.

Have a great day,

Carla.

[Revvell]

The only thing RT is saying here is "truth in advertising".. that's it! Don't advertise something is raw when it's not! Go to Trader Joe's. They advertise raw almonds ~ they're not raw.

That's all RT is saying. She really doesn't care is someone is raw or not; if they eat 5%, 50% 100% ~ this thread is not about that.

She does care that people are advertising something as raw when it's not. That's it!




If one wants to use it occasionally, does that mean one needs to go and first ask permission from the raw police?
Carla.

[snoops]

The insistence that everyone has to be 100 percent raw immediately is just plain ridiculous.



.

I have to agree with this. I think that for MOST people this is something that will eventually turn them off raw, is the insistence that it is all or nothing for the ultimate health. That 99% is not 100%. My experience over the last 2 years dabbling with this is that maybe 100% is the ultimate but it is not realistic for me and where I am right now. It is like going on a DIEt and sure I lose weight but I can't sustain that way of living. I can do it short term but do not want to do it long term. And I appreciate that I have not given it a real chance because the most I have done 100% is 5 days. Yeah I felt good but I could not sustain it. It doesn't fit with my lifestyle NOW.

So does it make me unhealthy to eat 80% and "good" cooked food the rest of the time. I don't think so.

I'm just saying that perhaps the dogmatic must be 100% and strive for 100% may be turning people off that could be very healthy at 80% and being directed through discussion as to what a good 20% cooked could be.

I know this is counter to the rules here but I am bringing it up because the discussion started and I think its a valid discussion. (Also realize it doesnt follow the OP - but has evolved - or devolved - to this)

And honestly those who are 100% more power to you. But I believe you are a very small percentage of people who post here if truth were to be known!! Might be a good poll questions. Are you 100% raw. I would be interested to see the numbers.

[T-Bird]

This IS an interesting development that I've known about for a while now. Also, a number of other "names" have not been 100% raw for some time, in one case, for years. I've been tempted to start a thread about it -- not to "tattle" (yikes!) but, rather, to discuss -- but have decided not to as it seems too gossipy.

I think it's very important to know what's really going on and to examine possible problems with long time raw food consumption. wheher they b nutritional, social, of psychological.

I mean - if you think about it, if someone is preaching/making a living off of raw foodism and eats he occasional baked potato - AND HIDES that fact - isn't that fraud, of a sort?

If on the the other hand, they say - 100% raw food is optimal, and I stick with that most of the time, they are being authentic.

[T-Bird]

Perhaps the health benefits are best if one exclusively eats fresh fruit and vegetables. No nuts, no freezing, no dehydrating. My goal is to find out for myself - eventually


That's kind of where my thinking is going too! I'm thinking it may well be percentage of raw fresh fruits and veg that are the determinant - and that 50% fresh fruit and veg, and 50% dehydrated may well be equivalent to 75% raw fruit and veg and 25% healthy cooked vegan, or some such.

That's why it's important I think for the long timers to come clean - does long term 100% not work? Are they hiding it to protect their $$$$ stream?

What gives?

[Revvell]

The insistence that everyone has to be 100 percent raw immediately is just plain ridiculous.


No one is insisting that on this thread or on this forum. Even if they were, so what? Why would any adult care if someone else was insisting on something that's not right for them? :confused:

[T-Bird]

I'd like to come out in support of raw truth AND kyrie!

I totally understand where RT is coming from, and I think it's important for information to be HONEST and TRUE. I used agave briefly before finding out what it was all about - and I bought it for a lot of money at a raw food place - I felt totally gypped later. I also used bragg's for YEARS thinking it was healthy and raw and then finding out that the raw food restaurant was sadly mistaken in thinking it is any better than natural organic soy sauce - it might even be worse......

I think Kyrie also has excellent points - We're all where we are and must do what we are capable of and what fits in with our lvies that keeps up happy as well as healthy.

I guess the distinction is between products and people. RT wants products and services to be clearly labeled as being 100% or some compromise for taste/convenience/whatever. So that those who are serious about 100% know what that is and how to do it.

Whereas Kyrie is talking people, who must be loved and accepted where ever they are and where ever their aspiration lie.

I think we can all agree on these points? Group hug?


<cue kumba ya music>

[snoops]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo9AH4vG2wA

:D:D:D

[T-Bird]

I can always count on you, Snoops!

[Green_Woman]

She does care that people are advertising something as raw when it's not. That's it!

Maybe RT should have been a little more clear for those who don't necessarily know her "style" and will walk away from this thread demoralized rather than encouraged...

Did I miss something, or is this type of discussion precisely what Alissa doesn't like to see on RFT, considering the OP directly condemns some of the very Living Food (not RAW, but Living) items Alissa uses extensively in her book? ;)

I agree about the False Advertising, and I don't embrace MOST of the Raw "Professionals" in the Raw Food "Industry"... and I had honestly never heard of Paul Nison before watching his new "I eat MEAT now!!! Raw is UNHEALTHY!!!" videos over at Giveittomeraw.com

:)

I don't base my life experiences entirely on "Professional Opinions". If I did, I could not honestly call this MY life.

[Green_Woman]

But I do want to hear your Rant on eating mostly fruit. :D Naughty, naughty me... ;)

[Revvell]

Did I miss something, or is this type of discussion precisely what Alissa doesn't like to see on RFT, considering the OP directly condemns some of the very Living Food (not RAW, but Living) items Alissa uses extensively in her book? ;)



Yes. According to my experience here, you are correct.

[Revvell]

But I do want to hear your Rant on eating mostly fruit. :D Naughty, naughty me... ;)

Guess we're both in line for a spanking. *pushes you out of the way* :p ;)

[Green_Woman]

I didn't know you were THAT kind of naughty, Revvell. ;) :D

[Revvell]

*looks around the room whistling quietly* Why, I have no idea what you mean. :cool:


I didn't know you were THAT kind of naughty, Revvell. ;) :D

[Ilse W.]

This is off-topic, but I do believe, as I've stated earlier, that each person's choices are his/her own and I fully support whatever it is. Someone doesn't feel that 100% raw vegan works for their body? Trying goat's milk? Raw egg? Steamed quinoa? Steel-cut oats? Hot veggie soup? Great. If it makes you healthier, yay. If not, I'm sure you'll know it and move on.

THANK YOU!!! The point I keep making: this is not supposed to be a religion but a way of working toward our personal best health. We all have different body chemistry, different backgrounds, different health concerns and issues. RFT is a great help and resource for all of us, but nobody here has a monopoly on "the TRUTH".

I prefer simple foods without much preparation (I'm probably too lazy to bother doing much more than wash my fruits and veggies before eating them). I'm against all the "super" anythings, and certainly am not going to spend my very limited funds to buy something off some "guru's" website.

[Eva]

Guess we're both in line for a spanking. *pushes you out of the way* :p ;)

LOL, oh dear. I picked an interesting time to see what's going on here.

Raw Truth... I will say, I do like when recipes I find in raw books are fully raw. But where does the line get drawn? I have contacted the company where I get my agave and feel confident with the way it makes me feel and what they say re: it's "raw-ness". I feel fine with the "raw" cashews. I feel poopy with Braggs and too much nutritional yeast, avoid them both.

When I had Braggs the first time, I actually posted on here. I had my first stomach ache since going raw and wanted to know the real deal, if that was why. I had seen the ingredient in Alissa's book. I've heard from several others they like using it and it helps them stay as raw as they want to be.

We can never understand everyone's motives when they say certain foods are so spectacular, but we can all make the choice to create our own reality and be responsible for our own well-being.

And Diana, I *know* deep down you meant no dogmatism or ill will or anything else with this post. I know we are all coming from different places, and I have really enjoyed reading this discussion.

I even used macs in place of cashews in a recipe today, will try to use them a little more and see if it works for me. I've rawified a cheesy kale chips recipe so it doesn't have the dreaded nutritional yeast. Sometimes I have the version with nutritional yeast. I'm just doing my best at every given moment and feel great doing that.

I respect you greatly and really appreciate you sharing your thoughts on this.

[T-Bird]

I've rawified a cheesy kale chips recipe so it doesn't have the dreaded nutritional yeast.


ahem?? where is it??

[Katie P]

ahem?? where is it??

I'd like to see it???

[Aleesha Sattva]

i'm guessing she's substituting pine nuts, lemon and a little raw salt???

[Green_Woman]

Do share, Eva. *taps foot impatiently*

I use Nutritional Yeast but have noticed that I don't respond AS favorably to it as I respond to its absence. :D However, I love the cheeze flavor... so, do tell!

[Revvell]

I use tahini in mine? Raw? *shrugs* I dunno!

[Eva]

LOL Sorry guys - I have several options for my cheezy kale chips. Offhand, chickpea miso, sea salt, red bell pepper all help to make it cheesy and salty. Definitely no lemon in any of them. Do have some fresh tahini in one.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head - but I'll tell you for sure that the red bell pepper helps. It's crazy just how cheesy it can taste when dehydrated!

:)

[PonyGirlMom]

Here is what is confusing me:

I know that stores, even the "natural" ones, are loathe to reveal that they are no longer selling truly raw nuts.

I know how maple syrup is made!

But when you look at agave syrup on the shelves, you see "regular" and "raw." Why on earth would they go out of their way to create a special botle that says "raw" when it's not?

[Eva]

Do share, Eva. *taps foot impatiently*

I use Nutritional Yeast but have noticed that I don't respond AS favorably to it as I respond to its absence. :D However, I love the cheeze flavor... so, do tell!

Ha - I *do* like the flavor with the nutritional yeast too... I like to call that version the "super smack" whereas one of the version's without it is just a "cheesy snack". Man, the nutritional yeast really is like some sort of "smack" too - that stuff's addictive! :eek::D

[Conscious Midwife]

Here is what is confusing me:

...But when you look at agave syrup on the shelves, you see "regular" and "raw." Why on earth would they go out of their way to create a special botle that says "raw" when it's not?


My WF store had @ 6 different varieties of Agave none of which said RAW, though the use too. So maybe your store is jsut selling out the remaiing stock of questionably labelled Agave.

[VeGenesis]

From a long-time raw fooder, I just have to get this stuff off my chest:

Since when are most people going to admit that these are NOT raw and not argue about it. They're not, they're not, they're not:

- agave
- cashews
- cacao
- yerba mate
- etc.

... so new-to-raw and even experienced raw are getting their glycemic levels wacky (doesn't matter what the agave people say, it's not low!!)

Why why why?

I am sorry if I am stupid or something but I do not understand why cacao is not raw? When we eat the cacao fruit from the tree we save the nuts (seeds?) wash and let them dry in a strainer and then peal them. I eat six to a dozen a day and it really helps with both Iron and Magnesium. So why is this not raw? I am serious, I really would like to know?

[kaybee]

hi natasha--

there are some foods--fermented/cultured foods--that can be considered live/living because of the probiotics/good bacteria in them but the foods themselves are not actually raw. these are things like miso and nama shoyu. sauerkraut, as long as it has not been pasteurized, is an example of a food that is both raw and living, but in the case of things like miso and nama shoyu (unpasteurized soy sauce), the initial ingredients have been cooked, but then they have been left unpasteurized after culturing/fermenting. so you are getting a probiotic-rich food but the actual substances it was grown on (soy, rice, barley, etc) were cooked first thus not raw.

[RawKnitster]

I am sorry if I am stupid or something but I do not understand why cacao is not raw? When we eat the cacao fruit from the tree we save the nuts (seeds?) wash and let them dry in a strainer and then peal them. I eat six to a dozen a day and it really helps with both Iron and Magnesium. So why is this not raw? I am serious, I really would like to know?

You stupid? I don't think so. I'm sure the OP isn't thinking of cacao fruit that you process yourself. Raw cacao has been given a bad rap because of a few unscrupulous processors.

natasha, Cacao is the same thing as cocoa. I think it is called cacao to differentiate itself from cocoa which is as I understand it, always heat processed. I was told by my cacao supplier ;) that raw cacao has 20 times more nutrients than cacao or cocoa that has been treated with high heat.

[Aleesha Sattva]

I'm new to raw so I'm interested in reading and learning as much as I can. What's wrong with plastic bags and bottles? Can you please point me in the direction of some scientific evidence that backs up your claims? I'm not being rude btw - I'm genuinely interested in what you are saying! :)

don't forget the power of google... google is your friend!

[Marine Mom]

Wow, I had no idea cashews weren't raw. Fortunately, I don't like them.

Thanks for info,

Kris

[Stina]

is that it tends to be rant-free. Unlike so many other forums that are more about controversy and less about support. I don't care to join the debate about the grey area of controversial items that could be considered transitional. I saw a long-term member a few years ago here go off on a rant that the forum wasn't focusing on garden-fresh produce. She quit the forum, apparently without realizing that most of us probably don't have access to land for growing and we're doing the best we can do to fix up supermarket produce.

Oh, and feel free me target me with your next rant! Going to school full-time and working full-time at a strenuous job leaves me in the position of eating mostly fruit! Then a salad in the evening. And you know what, I feel great. And you know what, when I get more time I'm gonna make recipes with cashews............and agave.............and nutritional yeast...........and.........and............:)

[RawKnitster]

Stina, you have been around a long time! And I'm glad for that. I like your attitude and take on things. :cool: :)

[Stina]

Stina, you have been around a long time! And I'm glad for that. I like your attitude and take on things. :cool: :)

Yeah, thanks. I really get a lot from this community and hope I share something to.

gosh, we're practically neighbors. I'm in Portland Oregon

[RawKnitster]

So you are an Oregonian. That explains the good attitude. ;)

[Irish_Vegan_Girl]

From a long-time raw fooder, I just have to get this stuff off my chest:

Since when is it okay for recipes to flood the raw magazines, books, forums, and blogs that include NOT RAW ingredients like:

- nutritional yeast
- maple syrup
- yacon syrup
- etc.

... so that new-to-raw people think it's okay because well-known raw chefs concocted them?

Since when are most people going to admit that these are NOT raw and not argue about it. They're not, they're not, they're not:

- agave
- cashews
- cacao
- yerba mate
- etc.

... so new-to-raw and even experienced raw are getting their glycemic levels wacky (doesn't matter what the agave people say, it's not low!!), they're getting toxins with their cashews which aren't/can't be raw unless you're spending practically your whole mortgage paying for them, and taking their adrenals and energy on a wild ride with toxic cacao. Addictions remain or are begun ... but oh, doesn't it taste yummy!! Addicted even though they say it's not. There's a reason why everyone gets wild-eyed and rabid about their raw chocolate. (Follow the money, people.) Go find and read Paul Nison's article on chocolate. It'll open some eyes, for sure.

And when are people going to stop looking for superfoods in bottles, heat-sealed plastic bags, and in endorsements by charismatic raw-millionaires who just happens to have an MLM you get in on, like:

- goji berries
- maca
- lacuma
- etc.

... and understand that the only super foods are fresh, ripe, organic whole foods in their natural forms? If we don't live in the tropics, the Aztecs, or wherever, these are not local foods to us anyway, so how can they be that super? Aaargh.

Dare I add to this rant my thoughts/observations about eating mostly fruit? Hmmmm ... nope. Think I'll save that for a whole 'nother thread!

Am I stirring the pot on our nice little RFT? Maybe, but I know what I know. And I continue to hate seeing newbies (or not so new) fall under the hypnosis of the marketing/entertainment-eating raw culture/getting stuck in raw gourmet recipe black lands.

Like Revvell, I know many/most of the "players" in this lifestyle. I also know the one or two legitimate science-based, research-proven people and organizations, too. I've done tons tons tons of my own research over the last six years.

Why why why?

I didn't think it made that much of a difference, I didn't know raw had to be like every little thing. I don't know who would deem whether nutritional yeast or such is "okay". And isn't raw when you are 95-100 per cent raw. I have to ask, is it such a bad thing to be a little bit un-raw, if it makes you feel good?

I'm not fully raw so I'll admit that I can't really give a "raw" opinion on it but, I suppose it is like being vegan, I'm all vegan, and I wouldn't appreciate it if the recipes included gelatine or what not. however, I don't know if that is a fair comparison.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just, conversationing? If that makes sense, I want to hear what anyone who shares your opinion on non-raw items, has to say about this.

smile.

[T-Bird]

I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just, conversationing? If that makes sense, I want to hear what anyone who shares your opinion on non-raw items, has to say about this.

I don't think the issue it - some rec are not completely raw:eek:

Rather - that it isn't explained that these ingredients are compromises for whatever reason. like maple syrup, not raw but pretty healthy.

I think the post is about full disclosure....not dogma

[rawviveyourself]

what a thread!

i do tend to agree with most of the posts here - however diametrically opposed some do seem.....

on 'what constitutes raw' - i've felt the same way about "health food stores" for a long time. many are just filled with overpriced soy products and "healthy" supplements filled with chemical preservatives. and how many people blindly line up to hand over their hard earned dollars in the name of being "healthy"?

i think much of where you are at in your individual rawness is partly about self-education and partly how in touch with your self & your priorities you are. we all have our reasons for being on this road.

i don't mind taking any recipe - vegan-soy-SAD-whatever and modifying it for my own taste. i also don't want to stress myself out unecessarily, because over-obsessing feels counterintuitive to leading a peaceful healthy life to me. but then again, that's just me - i'm a vipassana (http://www.dhamma.org/)meditator, so i tend to look at things a little differently than most. :)

as for raw newbies - it's a journey of lifelong learning. some will thrive on a partly raw diet, some on a 100% raw diet - maybe both along the way!

here's a question: has anyone here ever tried to describe the raw community and our obsession on percentages to a non-raw person? doesn't it sound almost silly to try to explain our never ending diatribe on percentages? [laughing]

what i will agree wholeheartedly on is the comment on MLM. as a healer i have seen so many people join the various cults of MLM - like the bottled superfoods craze, and my pet peeve: the Young Living clan. i am happy people are becoming enlightened, but saddened when a *little* bit of knowledge becomes a rigid dogmatic structure that is - admit it or not - where money supercedes healing on the scale of priorities. i could easily write a very long and very detailed rant on essential oils use and training (http://www.essentialorc.com/), but obviously this is not the appropriate place.

i love our community here, and it warms my heart that people can express themselves passionately about the wonders of health and living foods. we can't control anything but our reactions in this world, so thanks all for the lively discussion - this thread is a good read for those who seek out the information on raw and want to make a change in their lives.

[Aleesha Sattva]

I find this very interesting that the very foods you are mentioning here and saying why, why, why are (most of them) the very products Alissa uses in HER recipes; maple syrup, nutritional yeast, cashews. etc...and wait isn't she the raw food purist you all are telling newbies to go read her book and try this or that recipe of hers? Somehow this is VERY contradicting...good advertisement for her and her book, have to admit...good marketing skills!

Alissa is not a raw purist. She's all about making it easy to eat raw live foods. If someone doesn't want to eat *insert food here* then they don't have to. If they choose to, then it's their choice. No biggie either way since it's our own personal journeys that we each need to be accountable for, no one else's.

[Stina]

Alissa eats with great purity (from what I hear in interviews and it's obviously true: look at her) and occasionally eats raw gourmet with minute amounts of flavorings. It's the best of all worlds and not worth getting anal retentive over.

But if someone's feeling arguementative, let's argue the merits of wheat grass juice enemas!:D

[snoops]

LOL you make me laugh Stina. I'm sure I've told you before, but I love your sig line:)

[Stina]

LOL you make me laugh Stina. I'm sure I've told you before, but I love your sig line:)

Yeah, whatever. I challenge you to Jello wrestling.

[snoops]

Hmmm - too much sugar for me I think!!

[Revvell]

Do it Snoops! Just don't inhale! I wanna watch!!! :p

[kaybee]

yeah but make sure you use irish moss for your jello...or it wont be raw or vegan:eek:

:p

[Revvell]

There ya go. Now we've got an international audience. heh!

[VeGenesis]

You stupid? I don't think so. I'm sure the OP isn't thinking of cacao fruit that you process yourself. Raw cacao has been given a bad rap because of a few unscrupulous processors.

natasha, Cacao is the same thing as cocoa. I think it is called cacao to differentiate itself from cocoa which is as I understand it, always heat processed. I was told by my cacao supplier ;) that raw cacao has 20 times more nutrients than cacao or cocoa that has been treated with high heat.

Oh I have seen it processed the "normal" way - they cook it till the hull is nearly charcoal and black. In fact normal cocoa power is usually heated way past boiling at least three times. Once to get the hull off, then again when ground at high speed to make it a liquid and then again when they remove the fat and power it!

Even at the second stage it will make me sick! I mean really sick!

[VeGenesis]

a rant that the forum wasn't focusing on garden-fresh produce.

You mean I am not the only one with a concrete yard? But I was able to talk the landlord into letting me cut a few holes in the cement and plant a few little food trees!


Going to school full-time and working full-time at a strenuous job leaves me in the position of eating mostly fruit! Then a salad in the evening. And you know what, I feel great. And you know what, when I get more time I'm gonna make recipes with cashews............and agave.............and nutritional yeast...........and.........and............:)

Are you superwoman Stina? You sound like it!

I still think we are all different. Listen to your body talk is still the rule to live by. Personally Cashews and Nutritional Yeast make my body scream. But I do like Tibicos Buko (The Probiotic Tibicos made with Young Coconut Water). For those with water kef1r grains, those are actually Tibicos! Just ferment in your coconut water to make Tibicos Buko!

[VeGenesis]

But if someone's feeling arguementative, let's argue the merits of wheat grass juice enemas!:D

Ha ha ha :D I am just trying to figure out how to grow wheat grass juice here in the Philippines! As in to drink! But I also hear there is value in Milk Kefir going the wrong way to cure such things as large intestine problems... My question is... Aren't enemas kinda backwards? :confused: Is Milk Kefir, Wheat Grass going in the wrong way still considered "food?" :confused:

Life can be kinda confusing sometimes!

[domestic goddess]

I have actually read this entire thread. I don't come 'round here much anymore as I must say that I found the thinking of many here to be very narrow. I have to agree with Carla in that ANY amount of raw you do is going to improve your life. This whole I'm-more-raw-than-you thing helps NO ONE. If someone wants to eat cashews that are heated too high to be considered raw by the raw police...who cares? Why can't everyone just worry about their OWN diet and let others work out what works best for them on their own?

I have been raw for 5+ years now in varying degrees. I have had people 'call me out' for not being raw 'enough' or vegan 'enough'. Really, sounds like people need to get a hobby that is not analyzing others food choices. I wish to support people in looking to improve their health, and heal their bodies in whatever way best works for them. Some people do not WANT to be all raw/vegan and ya know what? It really has NO affect on my life whatsoever. I am happy to share my knowledge with those who ask, and will support those on the raw healing path in whatever way they need me to. I do not judge people who eat or don't, certian 'questionable' foods, nor do I beat myself up for eating cashews, or enjoying a superfood smoothie if I have a hankering for one. Whatever works for YOU is fine by me. I am much too busy enjoying my own life and walking my own path.

I wish everyone the best raw life they choose to live. :)

[Luda in Georgia]

I'm a newbie...read the whole thread...had some great laughs...thanks Stina!

What is "raw gourmet"?? Before going raw...no percentage necessary...I leaned towards all kinds of foods. My teenager is not raw and I still love to cook his meals...I am a gourmet cook, because I love to play with flavors and make the taste buds dance. I love to make foods interesting to look at as well as experience.

Almost every post here that mentions raw gourmet gives it a negative connotation. I have the feeling I may be a raw gourmet, because I tweek most recipes to find the picante, sweetness, or enhance a marriage of flavors for a whole new experience...it's still raw. I look for the unique veggie or fruit or herb and don't care if it comes from Thailand or Timbucktoo as long as it's organic...my personal preference...but yeah! first & foremost I'm a food snob.

I love the perspective & energy of all the "gurus" because I find it inspiring to delve deeper in my own research, but I catch & grab a little from everyone...even those on this forum.

It's just my style...no better nor worse than anyone else's. :)

[DebB]

I'm a newbie...read the whole thread...had some great laughs...thanks Stina!

What is "raw gourmet"?? Before going raw...no percentage necessary...I leaned towards all kinds of foods. My teenager is not raw and I still love to cook his meals...I am a gourmet cook, because I love to play with flavors and make the taste buds dance. I love to make foods interesting to look at as well as experience.

Almost every post here that mentions raw gourmet gives it a negative connotation. I have the feeling I may be a raw gourmet, because I tweek most recipes to find the picante, sweetness, or enhance a marriage of flavors for a whole new experience...it's still raw. I look for the unique veggie or fruit or herb and don't care if it comes from Thailand or Timbucktoo as long as it's organic...my personal preference...but yeah! first & foremost I'm a food snob.

I love the perspective & energy of all the "gurus" because I find it inspiring to delve deeper in my own research, but I catch & grab a little from everyone...even those on this forum.

It's just my style...no better nor worse than anyone else's. :)

Hi Luda ~ I always thought "raw gourmet" were the recipes that had many steps, the more involved recipes, like lasagna. Or it could be an involved dessert like a beautiful cheesecake. A lot of gourmet recipes (not all) have several different sub-recipes within the finished product. The more involved, gourmet-type recipes vs simple whole food like a green salad or just eating an apple. *Ü*

[domestic goddess]

Luda, that is awesome! You have to do what works for you. ANY way of eating is only going to work for you if you believe in it and enjoy it. So I find it totally refreshing that you dance with your foods! :D

[Luda in Georgia]

Thanks Deb! Now I get it. The first time I went raw...few yrs back...I was basic fruits & veggies. After 6 months I literally couldn't stomach it...blew my digestion.

I really love the concept of living foods, healing the body & mind, and feel guided that this is my true food lifestyle, so I figured this time I'm going to make it work. So many more recipes and ideas floating about this time around...it's exciting.

Hi Domestic Goddess...read a bit of your blog and I'm curious what kind of marinades you use for your veggies...and fruits??

Luda

[Aleesha Sattva]

Luda... if you are ever in BC Canada... feel free to come prepare for me! *grinning*

[EarthMama33]

Alissa is not a raw purist. She's all about making it easy to eat raw live foods. If someone doesn't want to eat *insert food here* then they don't have to. If they choose to, then it's their choice. No biggie either way since it's our own personal journeys that we each need to be accountable for, no one else's.

Thanks for clarifying this. I do not yet have Alissa's cookbook. I have not purchased it yet bc I do not have the funds for an excalibur or a vitamix. I do have the Cornbleet book though. I have always wondered about the raw nut issue when looking at raw cookbooks, as many of them contain recipes using cashews and almonds... both of which are very hard to get "TRULY raw."

I have thought to myself, while browsing through my copy of "Raw Food Made Easy" that SURELY she does not expect me to hunt down and locate TRULY raw almonds and/or cashews. That would not be very easy (or cheap), would it?

((On a side note, I discovered that my local co-op sells unpastuerized almonds. But they are $14/ lb !!! Which to me is quite expensive!! Does it *really* matter, with respect to weight loss, healing, etc??))

My reasons for wanting to be raw are: I want to lose 15 pounds AND I want to have more energy. I am transitioning from a cooked vegan diet. So I am wondering,,, do I really need to spend time, money, ... hunting down TRULY raw versions of nuts or can I make due for now?

[Revvell]

do I really need to spend time, money, ... hunting down TRULY raw versions of nuts or can I make due for now?

Do what you can.

As far as Alissa's book, with over 300 recipes, you don't necessarily need a VM OR a dehydrator. They'll come in handy but a food processor is pretty much a necessity.

[domestic goddess]

EarthMama33 you do the best you can with what you have. Any changes to your diet towards a more living food lifestyle will improve your health. The more you are able to do, the more profound the healing :) Sometimes finances dictate the way I eat and I am limited to smoothies, and salads. Other times I can induldge in 'fancy' raw food products. It's all good in my book :)

Luda, I don't use marinades much anymore (I haven't journaled here in forever, lol) But when I did, I would use Organic Nama Shoyu or Miso...not raw but they have health properties *I* was comfortable with. Now, I am lazy, lol, and if I can't eat it as is, I don't :D Well....unless it is a dessert....then all bets are off!

[VeGenesis]

What is "raw gourmet"??

For US! (US only ok?) Raw Gourmet is anything that you do not just bite. As in when my Honeybun chops up a mango!

Super gourmet may be when we smash bananas and add cinnamon or raisins!

I guess Ultra gourmet would be anything that comes out of our tiny little blender!

Of course we speak Engano around here (that is a combination of English and Cebuano and sometimes Bisalish (Bisaya and English) for those that know the difference. So in other countries or even other households these terms may be defined differently...

Tong N Cheek... :D

[katacykls]

LOLOLOL - you have such a way with words DRA:D

+1



This post reminds me of when I first learned about raw and thought that it was not feasible to make it my or a part of my lifestyle since I did not own

-a Vitamix
-a Food processor
-and every possible superfood out their you can name

Although you may have felt like you were ranting consider yourself a good eye opener for many..
I think what you are saying is true..although I add cashew to my shakes and have cacao also...

[RawKnitster]

Why did I look at this thread again...? I'm leaving now. Taking my "cacao addicted, wild-eyed, and rabid" self back to my "raw gourmet recipe black lands". :D

[VeGenesis]

Why did I look at this thread again...? I'm leaving now. Taking my "cacao addicted, wild-eyed, and rabid" self back to my "raw gourmet recipe black lands". :D

:) Knitster, you're so funny... I just ate my 10 cacao and actually it makes me sleepy!

[Revvell]

:) Knitster, you're so funny... I just ate my 10 cacao and actually it makes me sleepy!

Cacao does that to me too. Actually, it makes me incoherent so, I don't eat it.

[VeGenesis]

Cacao does that to me too. Actually, it makes me incoherent so, I don't eat it.

Ah but it also prevents the night time leg cramps and I prefer it to the Mag supplements. But that is just me... Likewise ten cacao are free with the cacao fruit and supplements are rather pricey...

But I am not incoherent, I ate it over an hour ago and I am writing this - or maybe my computer has taken over my fingers... joke!

Still, if it does that to you Revvell, I wouldn't recommend it for you! (Do you eat it with the fruit or just the seeds?) I too have noticed a number of things that people swear by here that really makes me sick. It just reminds me of how unique we all are!

[karenasmm]

Hello all,
I just read the whole thread and I appreciate the info!:D
I have been doing raw for almost 30 days and since i love to jump right in to things wholeheartedly i've got 4 raw "cookbooks" i'm trying out recipes from and so i guess its all pretty "gormet". Lots of nuts, seeds, olive oil etc. Of course enjoying making my own chocolates with "raw cacao". I've spent about 4x my normal grocery budget this month, fortunately its been a profitable month for me, but i can't keep this up indefinitely. I've totally restocked my pantry with all these exotic ingredients from raw cacao, raw( or cold pressed) coconut oil, raw agave, raw cashews and almonds even the mysterious goji berries...have a new blend-tec on the way.
I've invested everything in going raw and trying to make it easy for my husband and kids to enjoy. I am loving the foods but of course as i read on the boards and blogs and watch the "gurus" on you tube now i find out that not everything is so simple, that some things that are called raw are not really raw and the dangers of cacao etc.
So I really went out of my way to find "really raw" nuts, cacao and coconut oil. Seems everyone has a different definition of the word RAW.
So of course i'm frustrated but way too invested to back out now, while all these ingredients are in my pantry.
So here is my question. If i do this "gourmet raw" style and include these questionable ingredients, what is the harm? Is it going to impede weight loss?
I'm in very good health and want to stay healthy, but i am also about 40 lbs overweight and there is a history of diabetes in my family that i would like to avoid.
I saw on other threads that if someone is raw and not losing weight, it can be what they are eating that is not raw. Could eating nuts that are not really raw (though not roasted) be the problem? If so, why? I mean can someone break it down to be nutritionally?
Does this mean i'm only going to lose weight if i eat just raw fruits and veggies? I don't think i can do it if its so plain, i'll get bored and start missing more complex meals.
Thanks! :confused:

[domestic goddess]

Well...I fear I will get slapped for this answer but here goes...

SOunds like you are doing awesome. Better than awesome. In a perfect world where money and life does not affect our choices we could all eat a perfectly raw and organic diet with no worries or issues. Guess what? Not a perfect world. So, with that in mind I say this: you do the best you can with what you have. Set your intention to be as healthy as *YOU* are able to be. Eating, something we all need to do to survive, should not cost more than your mortgage, lol.

For me, I LOVE raw and can't imagine eating any other way. I eat what I like, sometimes I make 'gourmet' stuff but not very often. The things I buy...could be questionable but you know what? It is STILL so much better than what I could eat on a SAD diet. ANY amount of raw, whole foods you add to your diet is going to help your health. If weight loss is your goal, you will still lose weight by switching to a predominantly raw diet if a few 'questionables' pass by your lips.

I think the MOST important thing, honestly, is for this to be as easy as possible. This should not be something that consumes you. How will you continue with a raw food lifestyle if it is so stressful and hard? Don't make it harder than it needs to be. Enjoy the delicious food you prepare, knowing you are healing, releasing weight you no longer need and feeding your family a wonderful diet. Good luck to you!!! :D:D:D

[karenasmm]

Seems like most recipes contain fats (good fats). Of course this is where all the flavor is and its my downfall always. People (non-raw friends and family) are waring me that the nuts are going to add on pounds fast.
I dont like to focus on what i'm not eating, but in 30 days i quit meat, dairy (loved cheese) bread, pasta etc as well as cutting waaaay down on coffee and have only had 1 glass of organic wine. I used to pee starbucks and polish off a half bottle or more of red wine daily!
So please help me understand why i'm not losing weight yet? I'm looking at this bowl of almonds and i'm getting scared. Should i cave in and start counting fat grams?

[karenasmm]

Thank you for such a wonderful and encouraging reply! I am trying perhaps too hard, i am enjoying it very much though. Its an adventure!

[skier2]

Seems like most recipes contain fats (good fats). Of course this is where all the flavor is and its my downfall always. People (non-raw friends and family) are waring me that the nuts are going to add on pounds fast.
I dont like to focus on what i'm not eating, but in 30 days i quit meat, dairy (loved cheese) bread, pasta etc as well as cutting waaaay down on coffee and have only had 1 glass of organic wine. I used to pee starbucks and polish off a half bottle or more of red wine daily!
So please help me understand why i'm not losing weight yet? I'm looking at this bowl of almonds and i'm getting scared. Should i cave in and start counting fat grams?

Keep in mind that:

a) you are eating a lot of water-rich foods, which add water weight
b) Your body takes time to adjust to the changes, and weight will not necessarily always "fall off"
c) There's weight shift, too--you might put on muscle as you are losing fat
d) Raw fats like nuts need to be eaten in moderation, like all things, but the MYTH that they make you gain weight was based on the wholly incorrect low-fat theory of the 90s.
e) Avocados digest easier than raw nuts, but are equally satisfying
f) A digestive enzyme complex might help you
g) GREENS will help you lose wight. I mean serious greens...none of the 1 leaf kale and 4 bananas crap, more like 1 bunch kale and 1 banana. That's just how it works, and believe me, it WORKS.