harder to get into then i taught. [Archive]

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marc

11-18-2009, 04:01 PM

katchmoleen

11-18-2009, 04:10 PM

Just remember, those doctors and dieticians are trained in the SAD or SCD (Standard Canadian Diet). They will not know anything about the raw diet. So they are going to give you advice that lines in with what they know. Just know that basically NO doctor or dietician cures or reverses diabetes and heart disease, in fact they will tell you you can only control it. But I believe our bodies can cure themselves, given the right nutrition and tools.

And also remember, grains raise your blood sugar too. It is a tough path! But again I so highly recommend Gabriel Cousens' book. He has the experience to back his plan. He has actually helped people reverse their diabetes and heart disease.

rawrawks

11-18-2009, 04:16 PM

A doctors job is to keep you sick and cming back for more meds. They know nothing of nutrition. I never listen to them..Oh I never ASK them.
You do what works for you. You CAN do this! I have seen green smothies balance sugar levels very quickly!

VeGenesis

11-18-2009, 05:06 PM

hi all

its actualy harder then i taught to get into some kind off great diet..or should i say lifestyle change.

i am just back frome one off the best heart hosptilal..talk to 2 cardiologiste and a nutrisionist.

all said..to eat some fish and get some kind off meat

Marc, no joke, I can measure the amount of time I have lived in hospitals in years!

In all that time I discovered something, all hospitals, virtually all doctors (maybe a couple good ones in the whole world) and especially all cardiologists, and all nutritionists who work for hospitals or doctors - MAKE A LOT OF MONEY BECAUSE YOU ARE SICK!

In ethics that is called a conflict of interests.

A cardiologist that heard about my success came to me and for weeks he studied what I did to reverse so many major illnesses. I thought it was great that someone from the medical community took such an interest. Then he applied what he learned from me on his father! No grains, no beans, no oils, high green food - the basic Raw118 diet (http://vegenesist.com/3/) that I was following! His beloved father soon started getting better! Heart disease and diabetes reversed! Yea! I thought to myself - this doctor will be able to help many people!

Well, the doctor keeps his father on raw food, low fats, 2 raw walnuts and his father is doing great! The father is doing so well that he can be seen gardening, growing the raw veggies he eats and gives to others! But the doctor, as a cardiologist, tells his patients the same as you... eat fish, chicken and grains - and stay away from fruits! Basically the exact opposite of what is making his father well!

I told my doctor, who is a raw food rebel in the Philippines. He smiled and said, "Lan, if you keep teaching people what you are doing, I and every doctor and hospital in the Philippines will be out of business!" He had told me before, "Don't trust doctors - they are taught to lie. Do your own research - it is your life that is at stake, not the doctor's."

Moretta

11-18-2009, 05:09 PM

told my doctor, who is a raw food rebel in the Philippines. He smiled and said, "Lan, if you keep teaching people what you are doing, I and every doctor and hospital in the Philippines will be out of business!" He had told me before, "Don't trust doctors - they are taught to lie. Do your own research - it is your life that is at stake, not the doctor's."

This is so true.

VeGenesis

11-18-2009, 05:19 PM

Just remember, those doctors and dieticians are trained in the SAD or SCD (Standard Canadian Diet).

Hey Katch - in the Philippines Canadians are called "Americans" also! After all, isn't Canada a part of North America? :D

Perhaps a lot of Canadians are SAD and don't even know it!

EZ rider

11-18-2009, 05:30 PM

Ask a nutritionist if cooking damages food and why they recommend damaged food ?

Rick2009

11-18-2009, 06:40 PM

marc,
I believe Esselstyn is 100% plant based. With plant based you can get good results and quality of life. Whatever you chose, I wish you good health.

marc

11-18-2009, 08:32 PM

vegenisis

wen you say this....

it is your life that is at stake, not the doctor's."

this is so true.

sometime they look like thay care..but do they realy..if there wrong about there diet tips they wont die we do.:confused:.

thanks to all.

marc.i will go to the re hab thing..will see.mabe some of those nutri people wont be better..? will see.

but there some good people to in that buisensss.

yesterday i went to get some new pils at phamacis here and the young guirl there a pharmaciiest..told me i dont like mutch to sell pills..so i would recomend you to eat sutch and sutch..that was great to see her say this insted off just trow me some pillls and go.

marc

VeGenesis

11-18-2009, 08:33 PM

marc,
I believe Esselstyn is 100% plant based. With plant based you can get good results and quality of life. Whatever you chose, I wish you good health.

A good point here is that marc docs say he needs meat. But marc is inclined toward Esselstyn's book that says no meat. Which is correct? They both seem wrong to the people on this board (one is meat, the other is cooked!).

My wife and I are realizing that a Raw, limited oil diet like they talk of here (http://www.vegsource.com/talk/raw/index.html) is better for us and my heart than the gourmet raw food fare. There are plenty of raw food simple eaters here also.

Everyone here pretty much thinks no meat, raw vegan is the right way for you marc. But it is really up to you. There is no agreement around the world on what cures heart disease best.

I know a doctor who claims eating raw eggs is the cure for heart problems. Another doctor who points out the egg doctor has a high mortality rate, thinks that boiled beef bones is the cure all answer for heart disease. They both have loyal followers (perhaps people who either like raw eggs or boiled bones?).

The founder of the vitamin C foundation has said that anyone taking 10,000 mg of Vit-C and 300mg of CoQ10 per day on a regular basis does not have heart disease! That actually helped me to a point! At least when I started to leave eating SAD.

The supplements Lysine 5g, Proline 1g and N-Acetyl-Cysteine 1200 mg all helped my heart recover.

Dr Doug Graham, whom I respect, is basically against supplements because raw food and low fat has all that you need. But I have not let go of all supplements yet.

I suggest that you choose whom you plan to believe in and put your faith and your life into - commit yourself to it - and then find a community that supports that. If that is raw food, there are a lot of people here who will help you with practical advice.

When you make your choice, and commit to it, then you can put all your effort there and stop wasting you energy on conflicting ideas like your doctors are telling you.

Honestly Marc, I tried all the things you have talked about. Everyone! None of them did what I want - I wanted improvement! That is what Raw Food has given me - that is why I am here. I fit into THIS community as a low fat raw simple eater.

Not everyone here (including me) is where they want to be. I want to be less than 100kg! I want a life without supplements! Many here want to be 100% raw! But they are working on a goal.

SET YOUR GOALS!

It will really help you once you decide what pro-active measure you want to take to treat yourself and fix your heart. The stated opinion about doctors and hospital base people is really very low on this site.

No one is going to tell you the perfect thing for you to do... Or maybe I will say that everyone will tell you the perfect thing to do - and it will all conflict with each other!

Rick2009

11-18-2009, 09:39 PM

Vagenesis,
Esselstyn and Ornish are both in favor of all plant based.
Both see 10% of calories from fat as the best for reversal.
As for the cooked part, I disagree and believe raw is better. And I don't personally do well on grains, raw or otherwise. When I first started Ornish I wasn't 100 raw. "Beans and rice" were not giving me any energy. But you have to start somewhere. The big factor that saved me was the 10% of cals from fats and all plant based foods. This was enough for my arteries to begin to heal and clean.
That being said, when I began live raw full steam, thats when the lights went on.... life force and energy, clarity and endurance. I knew I was healing big time. The stress tests, ECG and angiogram proved it. I was lucky to meet a nutritionist who understood raw live foods and was willing to help me heal on the basis of a live raw foods lifestyle. Its amazing how many mistakes I made, even as a raw vegan. The premise became, eat raw, 10% fats, 30% protein ( hemp was great for this) ( I am a protein type and need a little more protein to thrive) and 60% carbs. The nutritionist made sure I was on track for calcium, potassium/sodium balance, b vites, iron etc. Blood tests showed the results.
I know there is detox, foggy thoughts, lack of energy, etc associated with going raw. I had very little problems... the odd light headache. I think that my work with a nutritionist who helped me to balance nutrients helped. I also think maca and chlorella were key to my thriving as I transitioned. I don't need either anymore: my daily smoothies and juices are amazing.

I don't know why the only live food I can find at a hospitol caf is some carrot sticks and celery. My guess is that those that know better don't say anything.

And so although raw is best, there is value for those who need more time to transition. I believe plant-based is a step in the right direction. For some, its a huge step. And studies have proven that arteries can heal on the basis of a low fat plant based diet. I hope that personal testimonies will encourage those who are seeking better health and are not sure of how to go about it.
It should be fun. A little encouragement goes a long way. I have made peace with the conflicting viewpoints. I think Ornish and Esselstyn have been very helpful, especially is raising awareness of the need to get away from traditional food pyramid thinking and looking at what has to happen to survive heart disease.
Maybe the next generation of cardiologists will be low fat live vegan oriented. Wouldn't that be great ?

VeGenesis

11-18-2009, 11:15 PM

Maybe the next generation of cardiologists will be low fat live vegan oriented. Wouldn't that be great ?

That would be great Rick!

That being said, when I began live raw full steam

I didn't get there overnight either. In one way of thinking, since I had my first heart problem at age 20 it took me about 35 years of transition... and I do not feel I am there yet because I still take supplements that I want to stop!

I think the point I was trying to make is that you and I took concrete steps with the knowledge we had. You started with a plan, you found people who could help with your plan to make sure you got things like Vitamins, etc. When it didn't work, you made a plan to improve.

That is just what I mean. In effect, when you went to plant based maybe you were just vegan and 10% raw! As you made observations you moved forward. Each new commitment helped you reach closer to your goal...

There is no universal or cookie cutter plan. We must each discover our own plan by making a commitment and them moving forward. My friend confirmed it was Esselstyn I was following before. There were changes and improvements as I stated before. But nothing compared to the first 45 and 118 days of the miracle on RAW118!

Rick2009

11-19-2009, 07:15 AM

Vegenesis,
I agree, going with a plan is best. Gets you there much faster, well, as fast as the human body will adapt.
I do think its unfortunate for people like Marc that those who you think would know better don't provide a better plan. I have to make peace with the idea that there are many conflicting views.
Maybe one needs to bring his(her) own plan and say " here is what I want to do..100% live vegan foods..10% fats from calories.." etc.."what do I need to do to fulfill this plan in the most effective (and pleasant) manner?"
Its simple and fun once you put the pieces together.
Peace, happiness and good health are our birthright.

marc

11-19-2009, 07:18 AM

well i will still go see them. at the re hab cneter at heart institute..that is one off the bets hosptial for the heart and that is a heart institue and researche center for heart..so i gues they no a bit there.

but there is so many cardiologiste in that place...i am sher they dont think all the same. will guive them a chance and will listen.

but reading...Ornish and Esselstyn ..i do beleive them..they prove there point.

and wont go on meat.

everything dont work for everyone.

to be honest i did eat some salmon 2 time in the past 3 week that is the only meat i had or animal product. and

but one thing i am sher my sugar is still high like 18 this morning and this is not good at all.

and one more book that is great and he think like the 2 others..its dr nel barnard..reversing diabetes.

i dont want to stop it i want to reverse diabetes and reverse heart prob.

pure and simple..if i want a few more years.:D

thanks again guys

marc

katchmoleen

11-19-2009, 03:39 PM

Marc, here is a story you might find very inspirational, and encouraging you to get back on those smoothies: http://greensmoothiesblog.com/reversing-diabetes/

Read Alex Romanov's story. Blood sugar readings don't tell the whole picture all the time. Best to you!

marc

11-19-2009, 07:17 PM

this is a great insperation to.

love it...look mr rocco video.

http://kristensraw.blogspot.com/2009/11/dr-oz-turns-meat-loving-cowboy-vegan.html

marc

marc

11-19-2009, 07:42 PM

http://www.wellsphere.com/raw-food-article/gabriel-cousens-m-d-in-8220-simply-raw-reversing-diabetes-in-30-days-8221/19887

marc

Rick2009

11-19-2009, 08:09 PM

marc,

What katchmoleen has been saying about Dr Gabriel Cousens is right on. One of his followers, Dave the raw food truck driver, was diabetic and Gabe Cousens healed him with green juicing and living foods. He also cured him of colon cancer and kidney disease.

Dave weighed 403 pounds and ate 3 pounds of red meat a day.

You can google...." dave raw food trucker ". And get to his videos on u-tube.

marc, why not watch one of Dave's videos on u-tube ? It could inspire you.

marc

11-20-2009, 07:14 AM

Rick2009

I would like to thank you.

those trucker guy video are good.

very insperational for people like me and informative.

thanks

marc

marc

11-20-2009, 07:23 AM

still would like to say i did still loose aprox 30 pound in the last 3 months.

but i gain those pounds in the past year to..

so that yoyo thuing is not good at all.

but now i would like to go to my suposely....mybest weight for me

and for this i have to lose....60 pound.

right now i am a 6 feet man..250 flat so down to 190 would be not bad..even lower..but still want muslce build up.

marc

Suz58

11-20-2009, 09:37 AM

Marc,
Dr Christian Tal Schaller might be able to help you. He is French and in Switzerland. His website is here http://www.santeglobale.info/tal/index.php
He is a medical doctor turned naturopath and does phone consultations.
He has a couple of books in French on 'alimentation vivant'. He has done lectures in Paris with Dr Brian Clement of the hippocrates institute which can be found on YouTube.

Stick with raw.
Bon Courage.

marc

11-20-2009, 02:58 PM

merci SUZ......:D;)

je vais regarde ca.

marc