To Honey or not to Honey

[Emmanuelle]

If we have to believe David Wolfe, (who I tend to believe, since he knows so much about so much when it comes to nutrition!) raw honey is a miracle super food, but I have been searching the net for information and the information is contradictory, for example this link from a raw food site nonetheless; http://www.rawfoodexplained.com/sugars-and-other-sweeteners/why-honey-is-a-harmful-food.html calling honey a harmful food.

What is your personal opinion?
And... do you?

[Revvell]

First of all, "we" don't HAVE to "believe" anyone.

Via 60 years experience, my feelings on honey is that it's anti-bacterial, antil-biotic and anti-viral. It's the first thing I take when I feel a sore throat coming on. It's been known to soothe and possibly heal shingles. It's been used on various occasions to heal open wounds. I keep honey on hand, always. From what I understand, it's the only real food that never c an go bad.

Uh, what was the question? Do I what?

[Aleesha Sattva]

i lovvvvve raw honey.

[Emmanuelle]

First of all, "we" don't HAVE to "believe" anyone.

Via 60 years experience, my feelings on honey is that it's anti-bacterial, antil-biotic and anti-viral. It's the first thing I take when I feel a sore throat coming on. It's been known to soothe and possibly heal shingles. It's been used on various occasions to heal open wounds. I keep honey on hand, always. From what I understand, it's the only real food that never c an go bad.

Uh, what was the question? Do I what?

"if we have to believe" is a matter of speech, where did your hostility come from?
My question is do you consume honey, if you read the title from my thread you might connect the dots :)

[Emmanuelle]

i lovvvvve raw honey.

So do I Aleesha :D
And WOW to your signature, congratulations, I think that is really fantastic.

[Revvell]

"if we have to believe" is a matter of speech, where did your hostility come from?
My question is do you consume honey, if you read the title from my thread you might connect the dots :)

First of all, I'm not hostile. Just stating WE don't have to BELIEVE anything. There are a LOT of new people on here and if they read that they HAVE to believe what David, or anyone else says, they're reading an inaccurate statement.

There was no question in your title which is why I asked.

I tend to be very literate in my speech in order to create clear communication. If one takes that as hostility ~ well, it comes from them, not me! :)

[Emmanuelle]

I think "if we have to believe" is a commonly known and used matter of speech, but thank you for clearing it up, now those new people you speak of will be sure to think for themselves, instead of taking for granted all that is being told, god forbid that would happen...

[Revvell]

Actually, the statement is "... if we were to believe..." not "have" to. Big difference. And goddess forbid you'd see me as hostile. Cantankerous maybe; hostile, nah. :rolleyes:


I think "if we have to believe" is a commonly known and used matter of speech, but thank you for clearing it up, now those new people you speak of will be sure to think for themselves, instead of taking for granted all that is being told, god forbid that would happen...

[RawSar]

I prefer to use raw organic honey when making desserts rather than using agave

[MysticTree]

Actually, the statement is "... if we were to believe..." not "have" to. Big difference. And goddess forbid you'd see me as hostile. Cantankerous maybe; hostile, nah. :rolleyes:

"If we are" or "if we were" or "if <insert name> is to be believed"; these are commonly used. As you say "if we have to" is not commonly used in English - either English English or US English.

I am a fan of Raw Honey - apart from the price ;o)

Georgina

[Green_Woman]

I LOVE RAW HONEY.

And I also get a laugh out of the Battle of the Semantics that's going on right now... ;)

[Rachiel]

I am a fan of Raw Honey - apart from the price ;o)


It is cheaper for me in NZ than heated honey. Not to mention that when I buy "bush" honey it is mostly manuka and kanuka.

Personally I believe that raw honey is antibacterial and very healthy. On the other hand it is still sugar so should be considered as such, like anything balance and thought about what your body needs is important. That being said there have been times where I have eaten it off the spoon and not felt any negative health effects.

[sport]

I refuse to eat anything that comes out of the butt of a fellow creature.

[rawrawks]

I would go so far as to say, if I couldnt eat honey, as in, someone said that rule, I would not follow the plan. Honey is a nectar from God (IMO) He gave it to us for our healing.

It is the circle of life.

Bees polllinate flowers, make honey, we eat honey, we bee happy, we plant more flowers, bees pollinate flowers, make honey....awwwww you get it.....

Before( a long time ago) I used to eat the decaying flesh from a wonderful animal that lost its life...so as our dear Lucy pointed out (about being so technical NOW compared to what we used to eat) I figure having some sweetness in one powerful food is "better than" for sure.

Oh and my plants are growing in composted soil that my earthyworms (ate my kitchen scraps and pooped out their butt) made. hahahaah just funning you sport...

[Emmanuelle]

Too bad my honey thread got hijacked into a spell checking thread, perhaps you could all speak in my language (Dutch), and see how many minor errors I can get out of everyone :) but thank you for the warm welcome..

[MysticTree]

If you set your location in your profile then everyone will be able to make allowances for the fact that English isn't your first language. I couldn't speak Dutch for all the pecans in the world :o

Georgina

[Emmanuelle]

I will eat those for you ;)

Thank you for the heads up Georgina

[gabriele]

edited by Moderators:

In Alissa's rules (http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showthread.php?t=33779) for this board:


6. No discussions of animal products such as dairy, eggs or meat. We realize that for some, honey should be among that list but we are not opposed to honey so please do not start up discussions about why we accept honey if we’re vegan. There are discussions where the subject of honey was brought up and talked about so feel free to do a search for it to see the various sides of that. But aside from honey, no discussions in favor of consuming other animal products are to be discussed here.

[Emmanuelle]

Gaby, I used to think about it the exact same way as you did. Perhaps my personal policies have softened, after reading the benefits of raw honey. And perhaps I shouldn't believe that the beekeeper I am buying from is one that produces only raw non heat processed honeys, and cares much about his bees. I know organic beekeeping is besides the point in your elegy, and that you are targeting our unconscious by bringing up the "vegan-ness" of our honey seeking actions, but truth be told, I have no right or honourable answer to your question.

Does that make me a bad person?
Or simply a non-vegan, or are they the same ;)

(I am not attacking you at all, merely returning a question)

[MysticTree]

I think small-time beekeeping is a much more symbiotic relationship than large-scale money focussed honey production. Many hobby beekeepers don't use smoke and all beekeepers should always leave enough honey for the bees to over-winter on ... look for an ethical beekeeper who loves his bees or choose not to eat honey at all. I don't know if there is a truly true answer on honey.

Georgina

[michigan roman]

thats where im at too gabriele . im trying to evolve into the perfect citizen of the universe amongst all creature types . civilizedly behaving without preying upon other beings . and focused on making earth a perfect place as opposed to praying to a god thing to bring me to a perfect place when / if ;) my current body wears out . if we arent striving to make earth a perfect / heavenly place it'll never happen !!

it always gets me when people are praying to go to heaven / a civilized place and then theyre butchering the hell outta every critter on earth :confused:
humans as predators still at this point in earths known history is ridiculous to me , were still a bunch of crude cave people .
as you may be able to easily detect by how crudely / agressively the punk little maggots that are our ruling class behave , pushing everyone around that they can like the little vicious predators that their philosophy keeps them as . (THEY WONT STAND MUCH LONGER)

so i stopped judging myself better than other creature types and began treating all other creatures as if me not just other humanoid type creatures .
and i see the other creature types of earth as younger / less advanced or developed souls than me , and that say 1000 body spans ago i was an insect something like a bee . so i may kill in self defense or to prevent other creature types from over populating (ide prefer civilizedly via water or food source feedings containing anti fertility substances controling populations) and in the process making the territory i need to survive uninhabital for me . but i dont prey up on or use other creatures , as a properly / perfectly functioning citizen of the universe wouldnt . weve higher developed minds and hands with which to exist as non predatory / parasitic life forms with , use them or spend more of your future floundering as a lower life form is my opinion

[gabriele]

Wow! Some interesting answers.

[Aleesha Sattva]

edited by Moderators:

In Alissa's rules (http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showthread.php?t=33779) for this board:


6. No discussions of animal products such as dairy, eggs or meat. We realize that for some, honey should be among that list but we are not opposed to honey so please do not start up discussions about why we accept honey if we’re vegan. There are discussions where the subject of honey was brought up and talked about so feel free to do a search for it to see the various sides of that. But aside from honey, no discussions in favor of consuming other animal products are to be discussed here.

pulling this down to make sure everyone sees it. IF this discussion turns to ethical issues again, this thread will be deleted.

[gabriele]

Add me to the list of yet another member leaving this forum. I don't appreciate censorship. It is caused by ignorance. This discussion is offensive to some because it points out hypocrisy. If you're eating honey, there are issues. I don't appreciate my entire post being deleted. That type of action belongs more in a dictatorship than here. A sad day.....

[Aleesha Sattva]

that is your choice... this is Alissa's forum... she gets to make the rules. Period.

[Veganforlife]

Add me to the list of yet another member leaving this forum. I don't appreciate censorship. It is caused by ignorance. This discussion is offensive to some because it points out hypocrisy. If you're eating honey, there are issues. I don't appreciate my entire post being deleted. That type of action belongs more in a dictatorship than here. A sad day.....

This IS sad that you feel this way. No one is trying to have dictatorship by any means. It's just if rules and guidelines were NOT established, this entire forum would be totally off topic, which is living one's life to the fullest. Healthy both mentally and physically. That is all we as the mods are trying to do. Keep the peace. No one is trying to dictate at all. Sorry you feel this way.

[revdrcyn]

I refuse to eat anything that comes out of the butt of a fellow creature.

Amen to that!

[Green_Woman]

It can't really be considered tyrannical interference if the rules are posted in plain view prior to your acceptance of "membership", is it? ;)

[green jeanie]

according to the rules, i don't see anything in this thread condemning rft for advocating honey. just some discussion of individual views. (not individual views that advocate any other non-vegan practices) the rules seem to be covering those 2 specific issues.
*don't go off on rft for allowing honey
*don't go off on the benefit of raw milk or if b12 comes from meat or something crazy

discussion of how/why/if individual members choose to eat honey in their diet is not restricted in that version of the board rules.

My prickly hair on this board is not with the rules.......i get it. It's the KISS principle. And my experience is that the board services it's mission statement and it's members better for having the rules. My prickly hair is with the often ridiculous tone with which certain moderators apply themselves in managing the rules. But hey, certain personalities are drawn to these positions. So, whatever floats it for you. But if you are in a position that gives you some sort of authority or leadership role and you get CONSISTENT AND VARIED feedback that your delivery or leadership style is problematic it may be a good idea to self-reflect and take some ownership in the dynamics rather than constantly deny and continue to blame the messengers. imho

PS: I love honey!! I couldn't eat it before starting raw because i was so sugar sensitive. This summer I started getting full raw honey combs from a bee keeper at the farmer's market. WOW!! super food is right!! I noticed a huge benefit to my whole system. In fact, I just went to the last market of the season and got three combs for the freezer to last me the winter.
Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet :D

[Aleesha Sattva]

I'm so sorry you are taking our tone as anything other than simply authoritative in this thread. As moderators we do need to take that tone at times.

I was unaware that our moderating was being given in ridiculous tone... I've reread what both Lucy and I posted and didn't read our posts as such... but hey, people read tone in their own way. Sorry you took it as such.

As for why you can't see a problem... the posts were edited or deleted. Hence why you can't see them. ;)

[Mary Kay]

Okay...back to the honey issue....LOL.....I was a beekeeper for years. It was actually my pickup line for my now husband "Oh, so you're an apple farmer, well then you must know about beekeeping. I'm a beekeeper." And his jaw dropped......

But I digress: Honey does not come out of the butts of bees!

It comes out their "mouths." And no, it's not puke either! Bees have two stomachs: Since they can't carry a bucket to transport the nectar, they have a second cavity - stomach- that does have enzymes to act upon the nectar, then they unload it into the hive. Their other stomach is their real stomach, where they digest stuff and then poop it out their butts. It's poop, not honey. LOL

I believe that if humans could exploit the bees, they certainly would. And maybe large-scale producers do to a small extent, but if they try too hard, the bees will suffer, and ultimately the producers will $uffer. Honey producers do not take all the bees honey, and give them sugar water. Instead, they provide the bees with such a nice home, that they're able to produce an excess.

That being said, I agree it's still "sugar" and must be consumed in moderation. As for it's antibacterial properties, it does have these to a small extent. Like a minute amount of peroxide.

As for the fact that it will never go bad....True. If stored in a tight container, it will literally last forever. There is honey from the Egyptian tombs that is still good.

Amazing. Homage to the bees.

I'd rather get local honey than agave shipped for thousands of miles! Some vegans will use honey, some won't.

Mary Kay

[MysticTree]

I refuse to eat anything that comes out of the butt of a fellow creature.


Amen to that!

Honey comes from their "mouth parts".

Georgina

[MysticTree]

you beat me to it Mary Kay.

I have always wanted to be a beekeeper but so far it's not been possible.

Georgina

[green jeanie]

Aleesha, I was in no way referring to your posts. Sorry for the confusion.

Your posts are always articulate, respectful, supportive and clear.

I appreciate your work on the site tremendously and respect that it is a tough position to be in.

Cheers, GJ

[Revvell]

PS: I love honey!! I couldn't eat it before starting raw because i was so sugar sensitive. This summer I started getting full raw honey combs from a bee keeper at the farmer's market. WOW!! super food is right!! I noticed a huge benefit to my whole system. In fact, I just went to the last market of the season and got three combs for the freezer to last me the winter.
Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet :D

I agree. I think honey is one of the most amazing foods available.

[Revvell]

Thank you for the clarity Mary Kay.


Okay...back to the honey issue....LOL.....I was a beekeeper for years. It was actually my pickup line for my now husband "Oh, so you're an apple farmer, well then you must know about beekeeping. I'm a beekeeper." And his jaw dropped......

But I digress: Honey does not come out of the butts of bees!

It comes out their "mouths." And no, it's not puke either! Bees have two stomachs: Since they can't carry a bucket to transport the nectar, they have a second cavity - stomach- that does have enzymes to act upon the nectar, then they unload it into the hive. Their other stomach is their real stomach, where they digest stuff and then poop it out their butts. It's poop, not honey. LOL

I believe that if humans could exploit the bees, they certainly would. And maybe large-scale producers do to a small extent, but if they try too hard, the bees will suffer, and ultimately the producers will $uffer. Honey producers do not take all the bees honey, and give them sugar water. Instead, they provide the bees with such a nice home, that they're able to produce an excess.

That being said, I agree it's still "sugar" and must be consumed in moderation. As for it's antibacterial properties, it does have these to a small extent. Like a minute amount of peroxide.

As for the fact that it will never go bad....True. If stored in a tight container, it will literally last forever. There is honey from the Egyptian tombs that is still good.

Amazing. Homage to the bees.

I'd rather get local honey than agave shipped for thousands of miles! Some vegans will use honey, some won't.

Mary Kay

[NaiveJeanette]

Alissa uses honey in her book.

this forum is an extension of her book.

[rawrawks]

Did I say I love honey...??? I love honey..its wunderfilled food.

[Vrindavan]

i believe honey is good for human.

I do not understand all the terms/theories of that articles.

History and human experience is easier to grasp.

but i am not sure if REALLY majority of honey are heat treated ?

because a beekeeper once told me there is no need to apply heat(high or low) to facilitate processing.

Then why the bee farm still use heat ?

[rawrawks]

I talk to the bee farmer or ask the storekeeper....the honey says raw, unheated, unprocessed, then its raw. I make sure.