Raw fooding lowers metabolism?@#!!??

[Thick]

Oh, guys I am so conflicted and need a good talking to. Ever since reading all of that Victoria Boutenko post and (wrong link I'll find it brb)
I am kind of afraid that even if I can stay on the wagon and never fall off, still I'll be fat.

Yes, if it does happen I'll still be healthy. But you cannot imagine the doubts that all of this brings up for me. I know that I lose weight and feel great on raw food. But I need to talk about this, too.

Please chime in with some wisdom about this.

[Thick]

http://mattmonarch.blogspot.com/2009/06/fat-cells-and-being-overweight-on-raw.html

okay there it is. scroll about 1/4 of the way down the page.

[Aleesha Sattva]

bottom line: if you eat high fats and do little to no movement... yes you will be fat regardless of what you eat.

so... eat a healthy balanced diet of raw live foods and get off your butt and mooooooooooove!!!

[Thick]

I know intellectually that eating less food and having less free radical oxidation going on in my body will cause less aging and more health..yet..at this stage I like to be able to eat a lot of raw food and I'm scared of that changing!=)

[Vegansara]

Eating a raw diet alone will not guarantee thinness for the rest of your life. As others stated in the Victoria thread, exercise is an equal part of health and weight maintenance. I don't know what else to tell you; it sounds like you are sort of freaking out and wayyyyy ahead of yourself. How long have you been raw? Have you lost any weight? Is weight loss the only reason you are doing raw?

My advice is to take a few deep breaths and then resolve to give raw a try, one day at a time. Learn to listen to your body. Really, the amount of stress you may be inflicting on your body will have more to do with whether or not you lose weight. Good luck!

[Seedy]

So I ran a little experiment last week. I tracked my food on my ipod and made an effort to keep my daily fat level to 25% or less. That may seem like a lot of fat, but in actuality it equaled 2 TBS of walnuts on my fruit at breakfast, 1/2 an avocado at lunch and 2 TBS of olive oil to marinate my kale at dinner. I cut out the Lara bars and flax crackers and ate whole foods for a week. I walked at lunch and took the dog for a run after dinner. Result: I lost 4 1/2 pounds. Prior to last week I had been raw for 3 months and my weight had actually increased by two pounds over that time period. If I were to estimate the amount of fat in my diet prior to last week, I would have to say it was at least 60%. Tons of nuts in the form of pie crusts, cakes and pates. 1-2 avocados every day, flax crackers for snacks, olive oil poured over greens and mushrooms. So I have to echo Aleesha. If you aren't losing weight or are afraid of gaining weight, watch your fat content and exercise. Do a spot check by tracking your food for a day. As an estimate you need 10 times your current weight in calories to maintain your weight and not less than 10 times your goal weight in calories to lose safely. I'm NOT saying you need to keep a daily food log or track every mouthful of food, but doing a spot check can be very enlightening, even if its only once a month. Even if your weight is perfect, you may be surprised at the fat content of your diet.
Seedy

[freshlight]

You could either become your own inspiration or find a good example and learn from him/her. Why to look at something you don't want? Find out what you WANT, set yourself some goals and go for them. You'll be fine

[Dimond]

Look at the examples: Philip McCluskey, who lost 100 lb on just raw alone, no exercise. Then he added in exercise & lost the rest. Tons of other raw weight loss stories like this, including Matt's wife Angela.

[snoops]

Well my thoughts upon reading the article are, sounds not very scientific but an opinion. Is that just Matt talking about what he thinks happens or is it proven fact? And two, what's the alternative? Keep eating SAD and be unhealthy? It's like anyone who loses masses amounts of weight. They are NEVER going to be able to eat like they once did. Those of us who are overweight just have to accept that we eat more than our bodies need and figure out why we need to do that.

[DebB]

You could either become your own inspiration or find a good example and learn from him/her. Why to look at something you don't want? Find out what you WANT, set yourself some goals and go for them. You'll be fine

Wow freshlight - I sure needed your post today! I 've been bummed out since yesterday and you showed me I am focusing on the negative and not the postive - Thank You!! *Ü*

[katchmoleen]

If you find a woman who has lost tons of weight on raw, going from fat to very slim, without exercise and with eating whatever raw they want, let me know. It seems to me we either exercise or settle for being a little bit overweight (albeit healthier). I am not there yet. But since my weight loss has really slowed down, I know it is time to move. The best part is, since I have proven to myself that I can be disciplined with eating raw, and since I now have more energy, I know I can stick with exercise too (as basically a hater of all exercise! :p).

[Thick]

But is it true that our bodies can become so efficient that you'll get to a point where eating more than a very small amount of raw will make you gain?

I understand that exercise uses energy and you can use up that extra energy with exercise. I guess you have to amp up your energy output to equal your food intake, still I'd like to hear someone's answer to my first question.

[Revvell]

Jeeez, Thick. When you get to the point, please, let us know.

It's like women who are afraid to lift weights. They say they don't want to "bulk up" as though what they're doing is going to do that.

FOLKS! STOP over-thinking this stuff! You'll drive yourself crazy (and us, if we feel to pay attention)! If you can just get and stay on a 100% organic, raw food program and get out and get some movement in, you'll be SO far ahead of most people and PROBABLY wayy ahead of where you were just a year ago and maybe even as little as a day ago.

As they say on "Shark Tank" ~ for this reason, I'm out of this conversation. :)


But is it true that our bodies can become so efficient that you'll get to a point where eating more than a very small amount of raw will make you gain?

[katchmoleen]

I find it so ironic that right under Matt's article about eating less, he has a huge long advertisement for all those foods he says we need to stay away from! (or at least eat less of). I personally don't believe that it needs to be that way. I think if one keeps the metabolism up by frequent small meals, reasonable amounts of all the food groups and exercise, one will be fine. I was going to do a long juice/smoothie fast in January, but I think I will stick with the principles of EatStopEat by Bran Pilon, which involves fasting two days a week. this is supposed to actually accelerate metabolism.

[Hina]

I find it so ironic that right under Matt's article about eating less, he has a huge long advertisement for all those foods he says we need to stay away from! (or at least eat less of). I personally don't believe that it needs to be that way. I think if one keeps the metabolism up by frequent small meals, reasonable amounts of all the food groups and exercise, one will be fine. I was going to do a long juice/smoothie fast in January, but I think I will stick with the principles of EatStopEat by Bran Pilon, which involves fasting two days a week. this is supposed to actually accelerate metabolism.

I've been doing ESE for 3 months now, it feels really amazing indeed, despite I don't need to lose weight :)
I can only recommend it.

[Mikey_H]

But is it true that our bodies can become so efficient that you'll get to a point where eating more than a very small amount of raw will make you gain?

I understand that exercise uses energy and you can use up that extra energy with exercise. I guess you have to amp up your energy output to equal your food intake, still I'd like to hear someone's answer to my first question.

Basically, there is no absolute answer to anything. When it all boils down, if you are eating the large part of your daily diet as raw/fresh foods, and stay away from processed foods, dairy, wheat (particularly white flour) and dark/red meats... you are GOING to maintain a healthy body weight throughout life, period. Unless you are an absolute couch potato I doubt it is even one bit possible to be unhealthy or overweight. It's not healthy to be so obsessed with "weight" as much as maintaining a healthy lifestyle, working out regularly, and staing balanced. Stress like this can lead people to eating disorders... not to mention, muscle weighs a lot compared to just plain ol' body fat.
The overall rule of thumb is that nothing happens overnight. We are all different and have different body types and needs. Stay as natural as possible and try not to look at weight or calories in the long-run. As the months go by, you will shed pounds, find yourself getting stronger, feeling content and feeling more radiant.... as long as you keep eating an ABUNDANCE of fresh foods, exercise and balance your life out. I've seen it time and time again not only on these forums but with my own family and friends (not to mention my own experience) who have switched from a predominantly meat/dairy/bread type of diet to a fruit/veg/coconut/nut etc type of diet.
Over time you begin to know yourself better...

I'm not even 100% to-the-letter raw all the time, but the point is I'm active and eat wholesome foods...

You will have days of fatigue, days of extreme energy, ups and downs no matter who you are. I guarantee you, stick with living a predominantly fresh food lifestyle and stay away from taboo processed muk and one year from this day... think back to Oct. 4 2009.... about how you felt, what you looked like, and compare the differences no matter how subtle or great they be. I guarantee you it will all begin to make sense:p
I can't believe I just wrote that much....
But anyway, keep goin!:D I'm just very passionate about fresh foods! haha

[freshlight]

If we manage to create a balanced inner life (emotios etc.) it will show in our appearance. We don't have to count the callories or to "watch out",-our inner voice is our best friend imo

[Myownworstenemy]

If I may add my 2 cents...

I have studied nutrition & physiology for several years and know that the body can "adapt" to just about any environment you put it into. If you eat nothing but "X" for however long, the body will adapt in some way and "reset" itself to accomodate for just "X". There will always be a baseline of what the body can survive on and what it needs to keep changing and becoming healthy. If you lower your baseline calories (no matter WHAT kind of food you eat) your body will adjust to accomodate for that. It will go into survival mode if you lower those calories to below what it's accomodated for. Hence, the slowing of the metabolism.

The ONLY way to force the body to accept the lower calories and STOP the slowing of metabolism is my forcing it to create adrenialine. Adrenialine is a hormone, created by strenuous exercise, that burns cortisol, a hormone created by stress: lower calories, depression, frustration, general living, etc. If you do not balance out the creation of adrenaline and cortisol you will not loose body fat period. The weight you loose "weight" on a lower calorie diet because you are canabalizing muscle tissue...which further lowers metabolism. Once the muscle tissue is canabalized, your weight will plateau and you will stop loosing. The tissue left over is "defensive fat" that the body thinks it needs to keep you alive.

Bottom line: If you don't eversize seriously and regularly the only weight you will loose will be from muscle loss. If you are going to go raw to loose weight, YOU MUST EXERCISE AND LIFT WEIGHTS. Anything else will only weaken your body in the long run.

That's my two cents... :D

[Asa]

Huh. Well, my personal experience is that once you are cleaned out, then no matter what you eat raw you won't gain much *fat* as long as you eat a good amount of fresh food.

When I first went raw, I kept my fat intake below 11 percent per day and my calories below 1250 per day the first two months. I went from 139 to 102. I was also exercising a lot. Then I dropped all limitations and stopped exercising so much. I then gained about 8 lbs in the course of a month or two- but I needed to. 102 was too low for me. This was about four years ago. I have since then gained about 3-4 more lbs, but still wear the same size clothes. I think that this is indicative of my body fat percentage shifting to more muscle.

I eat as much as I can comfortably digest.

[Myownworstenemy]

Huh. Well, my personal experience is that once you are cleaned out, then no matter what you eat raw you won't gain much *fat* as long as you eat a good amount of fresh food.

When I first went raw, I kept my fat intake below 11 percent per day and my calories below 1250 per day the first two months. I went from 139 to 102. I was also exercising a lot. Then I dropped all limitations and stopped exercising so much. I then gained about 8 lbs in the course of a month or two- but I needed to. 102 was too low for me. This was about four years ago. I have since then gained about 3-4 more lbs, but still wear the same size clothes. I think that this is indicative of my body fat percentage shifting to more muscle.

I eat as much as I can comfortably digest.


My point, you were exercising. Hence you lost weight. You stopped exercising, you gained weight back. You are exactly right in assuming you body fat % shifted to more muscle so you can still wear the same clothes.

;)

[Thick]

So then , obese people are more likely to regain weight because they never taught themselves to exercise..okay.

What about the efficiency issue? It seems to me that an efficient body would release extra nutrition when it was well balanced and exercised--not hoard it.

But maybe by being obese once, I've ruined my body forever and all this hope that I can be a normal healthy weight is foolish. (insert infp jab here)

Or maybe it's time to accept that my body is different, not crippled, not diabetic, not diseased in any way, but it needs a different kind of medicine and will always gravitate to obese if I don't go an extra mile with it...

Also, I am very active--but it's extremely stressed out kind of active hah, if you kwim.

I guess for the first part of your journey, raw food makes you healthier by correcting all of your imbalances and stops your food addictions--but if you stay addicted to the amount of food you are eating, that will eventually be an imbalance too.

[Aleesha Sattva]

that's the point though thick... by changing what you eat and how you move... you change your Self. so you don't do the same things you did before.

i was obese and won't ever be that again. i know this 100% cause i know i'll be raw forever. i won't ever go back to a SAD diet again. i like being healthy. i like having energy. i like the way my skin looks. i like my life like this!

just because i was obese... means nothing in this. nothing at all.

[Revvell]

... raw food makes you healthier by correcting all of your imbalances and stops your food addictions--


but if you stay addicted to the amount of food you are eating, that will eventually be an imbalance too.

Raw food does not stop your food addictions or the amount. Addressing your food addictions ~ the when, where, why, what and how of emotional eating and habits ~ stops your food addictions.

[Myownworstenemy]

Coming from alcohol addiction, you are totally and completely correct Rev. Raw food won't "cure" any sort of addiction, whether it be from cooked food, caffine or alcohol, but it will make you healthly. And a healthy body creates a healthy mind, which creates healthy energy to start exercising. The rest follows. You must address your demons, but you must also allow your body to become healthy enough to address them in the first place.

[Thick]

that's the point though thick... by changing what you eat and how you move... you change your Self. so you don't do the same things you did before.

i was obese and won't ever be that again. i know this 100% cause i know i'll be raw forever. i won't ever go back to a SAD diet again. i like being healthy. i like having energy. i like the way my skin looks. i like my life like this!

just because i was obese... means nothing in this. nothing at all.

Thank you Aleesha. Your testimony in this means a lot to me!=)>

[Thick]

OKay it doesn't cure your addictions in that after while you could have just one ___ and be fine--but it definatley does cure food cravings, which is the bride of addiction, hmm?

I see where you are coming from though. Not the immiediate craving addiction of now but it doesn't cure the longterm interest in the tastes and *feelings* of our childhoods and younger years.

Thanks!=)>

[Myownworstenemy]

Interesting fact on addiction (food/non psychological) We grow completely new taste buds every 21-30 days...hence the loosing of food cravings. We completely regenerate every single cell in our body every 6-8months. So what we thought we wanted/needed this month, we won't necessarily want or need next month....and we regrow our entire bodies every year!!!

[Aleesha Sattva]

but we don't regrow a new brain or new memories... we need to do some work on those aspects. that's where therapy, eft etc. come in.

for me... fasting did the trick. i don't know how... but it did. i've changed my cravings, desires etc soooooooooooooooo much.

at the same time, i wrote on my blog daily, i shared with others on forums (all writing therapy) and i have been in therapy years ago (for childhood traumas)... so i have a good grasp on how to change behaviours. ;)

my point is... just sitting on your butt isn't going to change anything. but if you have the desire... there is no limit to your abilities! (((hugs)))

[Revvell]

Coming from alcohol addiction, you are totally and completely correct Rev. Raw food won't "cure" any sort of addiction, whether it be from cooked food, caffine or alcohol, but it will make you healthly. And a healthy body creates a healthy mind, which creates healthy energy to start exercising. The rest follows. You must address your demons, but you must also allow your body to become healthy enough to address them in the first place.

Well, yeaah. Problem is, it's a cycle. IF one doesn't eliminate the habits and cravings, they'll keep sabotaging most any attempt to become healthy so, the mental/emotional issues have to work hand-in-hand with the physical.

[Revvell]

Inaccurate. We don't completely grow new taste buds every 21-30 days and even if we did, it's not the taste buds that are the problem. We also don't regenerate every single cell in our bodies every 6-8 months. Where are you getting these statistics?

If all this were true, then we'd all be healthy and living forever. I know many alcoholics who've been without alcohol for years yet still have the cravings because their bodies AND their minds are still holding the cellular memories of how they feel when they drink ~ numb. People who eat and overeat for emotional issues do so because they don't want to feel.

Various aspects come into play when dealing with psychological/emotional and physical addictions. I've been dealing with my own and my clients'/students issues for about 23 years now. Either I'm very bad at what I do (from the testimonies I get, I don't think so) or, what you say is very wrong. It should be so easy.


Interesting fact on addiction (food/non psychological) We grow completely new taste buds every 21-30 days...hence the loosing of food cravings. We completely regenerate every single cell in our body every 6-8months. So what we thought we wanted/needed this month, we won't necessarily want or need next month....and we regrow our entire bodies every year!!!

[Thick]

I have read that we regenerate our cells every 7 years, but not all at once=)> And they don't renew themselves completely, but replicate I suppose because scars don't leave but slowly travel upwards. But, I'm no expert.

I do know we slough off mouth cells at a fast rate, but I of course agree that my tongue does what it's told..by my brain, which keep careful records of how everything I've ever done with it tastes. The trick is to add in a new memory to the memory of those foods.

Now when some food crosses my mind or is jiggled in front of me, I think not only about the taste..but the feeling. When you've been dieting a long time and amateurly dealing with your feelings of deprivation, control, and every other feeling--food that is forbidden becomes a vacation from the inner good cop/bad cop game.

So...my solution has been to add to the mental file I have for that food.

When it's tempting I immiediately think about the way it makes me feel and really imagine that feeling. Now when cheetos come to mind, I honestly have an entirely different file to access=p Thirsty, hydrogenated chemical sludge in mouth, and painfully swollen beltline are the ones that come to mind on cheetos atm=)

[freshlight]

Wow freshlight - I sure needed your post today! I 've been bummed out since yesterday and you showed me I am focusing on the negative and not the postive - Thank You!! *Ü*

oh, that's cute! I'm glad you are feeling good :)

[kiropa]

hi thick,

once obese definitely does not = always obese. you are NOT different. your body is NOT different. it's a process. you are on a journey.

it sounds to me like at the moment you are accepting of changing the types of foods you eat, but not the quantities. that's okay. go with that for a while.

in time, you may simply want to eat less or you may replace some foods with lower calorie high 'bulk' foods, so you can still eat a lot -- yet continue to make progress.

also, none of this is all or nothing. you may have a hungry day, followed by a not-so-hungry day. it's all just life. don't worry about the future.

see what works for you and adjust accordingly. don't complicate things in your brain, it's so not necessary (or productive!).

as for exercise -- i don't know, but i think adding activity is what really helps. take stairs, not elevator. park far. walk. walk up the steps a few extra times, take the dog for an longer walk, that kind of thing.

i love working out -- but it's all about what works for you.

progress, not perfection. there's no 'end date'. one day at a time. simply try to live as healthily today as you can -- that's all you can do. if you have a 'bad' day, tomorrow is a new day.

i totally agree with working on the emotions/habits/behaviors that caused you to become obese.

like i said, it's a journey. be proud of how far you've come and excited for what the future holds. don't be afraid of something that hasn't even happened, that's silly.

good luck!

[T-Bird]

Thick,

What is the real issue here??? This is a little out there, to be honest.


- go raw - see how it works - give it a real try 3 or 6 or 9 months or 1 or 2 years - and if what you're doing isn't working for you - you can always change what you're doing within raw or stop being 100% raw at any time.


To be raw, you don't have to get into a space ship, travel 7 years to a new planet and never ever see a tofurky sausage again.

[TaupeRawMan]

http://mattmonarch.blogspot.com/2009/06/fat-cells-and-being-overweight-on-raw.html

okay there it is. scroll about 1/4 of the way down the page.

This article is a little crazy-making in my opinion. Looking at this theory and his blood-gas theory, it sounds like, if one goes raw, one needs to continue to eat less and less over time as well as get regular colonics to clean out all the toxins. My understanding of Matt's approach is that, unless one is willing to do both of these things, raw is going to be difficult and possibly counter-productive. This sounds like disordered-eating thinking to me. Eat raw, eat enough, take walks, enjoy life. Simple is best, in my opinion.

[Aleesha Sattva]

*nodding* I don't read or listen to what Matt has to say. His thinking is "out there" and I disagree with much of it. But... some people resonate with him. It's a personal choice really.

I like what Alissa has to say. Eat raw... allow your body to enjoy the foods and over time you will know what to eat and what not to. Always remain open to making changes cause stagnation is never good.

:D

[rawrawks]

If you find a woman who has lost tons of weight on raw, going from fat to very slim, without exercise and with eating whatever raw they want, let me know. It seems to me we either exercise or settle for being a little bit overweight (albeit healthier). I am not there yet. But since my weight loss has really slowed down, I know it is time to move. The best part is, since I have proven to myself that I can be disciplined with eating raw, and since I now have more energy, I know I can stick with exercise too (as basically a hater of all exercise! :p).

OOOOOOOOPs... I guess I be an exception. I must confess, I do not exercise and am soon to be starting running (very soon).

I had not alot of weight to lose however the weight has continually dropped from me. At my biggest (i do not weigh on scales) I was a size twelve/medium large now I am in small/sizes 7, 8 or so....and on it goes. Every day I look thinnner and my clothes fall off literally.

Eating raw, as much as I want and need. Keeping colon clean with colonhyrdo and enemas when cleansing or needed, and having a balance in what I eat, HAS RAWKED MY BODY.

Oh two years raw is my the time frame this took. Weight loss has been contuinual. Cooked sets one back.

[rawrawks]

I dont beleive eveything an "expert" says. They share from their experience or others they heard about everyBODY is different. If you have a mindset to simply eat raw, rest takes care of itself.

And yes, at what point is there an eating disorder. Eating so little and continually cleaning the colon out. hmmmm

One time i read Mr M. book online and it said that one can get "so clean" that they go to the hosp for emergency and could die if given some medicine. eeeeeee. Also that you become so sensitive you can barely live in the world ( we cant all go live in an isolated pristine place).

So n e way I got bummed..but didnt quit raw, just quit filling my head with his info.

[cara4art]

Late on this thread - I think on this one, as well as the constant colonics schedule, Matt M. is "out there", and as one poster put it on the verge of disordered eating. That said, if one just uses diet to lose weight, it IS a real fact that metabolism will slow down. It's not the dieting that's the fault, it's the fact that unless you do something to keep up or even build muscle mass, you lose muscle along with fat. That lean tissue is a good bit more metabolically active than the same amount of fat tissue, so if you are losing that lean tissue, you ARE slowing down your metabolism. This is why people who diet-only end up gaining it all back and then some, because they have induced a state of the body not being able to metabolize as much food as previously. There has to be a middle ground in there! At some point, to get results on several levels, you DO have to get moving. A solid weight-training program(or something equivalent) plus cardiovascular work will help you in so many ways. Unless one is very young, one can't expect to just sit all day and lose weight, even with a great raw food balance. Eat raw, and seriously move, and see what happens - your body will tell you soon enough, or at the very least in due time. Humans were made to move, a LOT, and unless one makes a conscious effort, our modern lifestyles don't give us that. Hope this helps!

[katchmoleen]

OOOOOOOOPs... I guess I be an exception. I must confess, I do not exercise and am soon to be starting running (very soon).

I had not alot of weight to lose however the weight has continually dropped from me. At my biggest (i do not weigh on scales) I was a size twelve/medium large now I am in small/sizes 7, 8 or so....and on it goes. Every day I look thinnner and my clothes fall off literally.


Sorry, lol, you don't qualify! I am talking about an obese person. Size 12 is not obese. Many of us would LOVE to be size 12! I am talking about someone with 70 80 or more to lose. Going from that overweight to very slim without exercising or greatly limiting what they eat on raw (like doing the 80/10/10) would be very rare IMHO.

[rawrawks]

yipeeeee I LOVE it when I dont qualify!!!

[Eilene]

We all need to do what we need at the moment. For me personally...I eat 90-95% raw a week (just guessing...1 cooked meal a week...no meat) I had to lower my fat also as I was eating way too much & of course, get off my butt & exercise!!!!! It all works together. You gotta MOVE!!