Gaining Weight Over Time (Plateau) (Victoria Boutenko)

[laura-jane]

Hi all,

I've been raw for a couple of months, and I am really looking forward to continuing to stay raw for an extended period of time.

One concern that I have always had is a few warning signs about being raw over very long periods of time (say, ten years) and that it can lead to weight gain. I don't know that much about nutrition, but it makes sense to me that the body over time might decide that it needs to horde more nutrients and it is entirely possible that one might gain weight over time (like a decade) even eating a low-fat raw diet.

For example, I really admire Victoria Boutenko and her teachings. However, I recently discovered that she is a bit overweight. You can see a video of her here (http://renegadehealth.com/blog/2009/07/23/victoria-boutenko-on-oxidation-green-smoothies-avocado-pits-and-more/). I really am not here to discuss anyone's personal habits and I do not wish to disrespect Victoria in any way. However, when I heard Victoria's comments about "plateauing" on the raw food diet after a few years, and then gaining weight although she continued to be raw, I was quite surprised.

The purpose of my post here today is to ask whether anyone has heard a valid explanation from Victoria or others which might explain Victoria's weight gain? Again, I do not think that she is terribly overweight or anything; however, I just expected her to be very slim and she is not.

It is giving me some doubt as to the validity and healthfulness of this diet over the very long term.

[Revvell]

Since no one was willing to ask Victoria directly about her weight gain and she is LARGELY overweight, I asked her off the air for her permission which she gave saying that people were talking about it and blogging about it but never asking her directly so, I did.

Her response paraphased is ~ she hates exercise and with all the research she is doing, sitting at the computer, etc., she's just eating and gaining weight. I've not seen her for a few months so, don't know if anything's changed since. You can listen to our whole interview here (http://bit.ly/c74SL).

[laura-jane]

Revvell,

Thanks so much for your quick response that totally answered my question--with primary sources to boot!

I am listening to the podcast right now.

Thanks very much!

[Veganforlife]

So? Let me get this straight. Being thin and slim constitutes health? I personally don't think so. Victoria and Alissa and me and a multitude of others have healed and cured themselves of illness and dis-eases by eating HEALTHY! There is so much data that not only Victoria and Alissa have brought to light, but the pioneers like Ann Wigmore studied and researched and PROVED that the long-term results of eating a living diet can have. It doesn't take a lot ofscientific data, but common sense.
Eating LIVING foods will keep us alive and healthy. Eating dead foods will do nothing.
Like Ann Wigmore said, "Eating live foods equal live bodies. Eating dead foods equal dead bodies."

[laura-jane]

PS: Here's the radio interview. (http://rawkinradio.com/2008/10/14/revvell-interviews-victoria-boutenko-at-the-raw-spirit-festival/) The discussion turns to the topic of weight around 13 or 14 minutes in. Great interview.

[laura-jane]

Veganforlife, I didn't see your comment when I posted my PS.

I totally get your point and you are correct that being slim and thin is not the be-all end-all and weight is certainly not a complete indicator of health.

I guess for me most of my exposure to raw food "celebrities" of sorts have been to extremely thin people and I was surprised more than anything.

My intro to raw foods was by someone who greatly improved his arthritis and my reason for going raw was not weight loss but health and energy.

But I was still very curious and I wanted to know what Victoria's rationale was, which she explained very well in the podcast.

Thanks for your insight and reminding us all that weight is not the #1 concern. Health is, and should be, the focus.

[Vegansara]

While this is a touchy subject, I do believe that being overweight is unhealthy. It taxes our organs and joints. I'm not arguing for stick thin model weight here, but I will stick to my guns that for optimal health, weight must be included in the discussion.

[Revvell]

I agree. Although I've seen many people slightly overweight (to my eye), and VERY fit ~ kicking my butt up hills and stuff yet, when they get to the point where they never go out, never move, it is wayyyy taxing on the system, PLUS, obesity has been linked to many disease and, it is taxing on the rest of the system, never mind the joints. I know way too many people, rather than eliminate the excess weight, succumb to getting hip and knee transplants. Surgery, in and of itself is dangerous as well.


While this is a touchy subject, I do believe that being overweight is unhealthy. It taxes our organs and joints. I'm not arguing for stick thin model weight here, but I will stick to my guns that for optimal health, weight must be included in the discussion.

[Veganforlife]

While this is a touchy subject, I do believe that being overweight is unhealthy. It taxes our organs and joints. I'm not arguing for stick thin model weight here, but I will stick to my guns that for optimal health, weight must be included in the discussion.

I agree that weight definitely plays into one's health but everyBODY is different and many factors create the shape and weight of each of us. Whether it IS lack of exercise or not eating 100% Raw (contrary to popular belief), being 100% Raw DOES make a huge difference. There are "reasons" (if you will) why some will eliminate weight and keep it that way faster than others.
I guess what gets me is folks questioning the long term effects of this diet. I'm sorry but if the SAD/CRAP diet was scrutinized a fraction of how this healthy, healing way of eating is, I bet a body part folks would not shovel that garbage down their throats at the speed of light like they do now.

[Nikkan18]

yea im being very concerned now. I honeslty was doing this diet for weight reasons which also became about health too, I def do not not want to gain back the weight that i have lost becasue i still want to feel good about my self

[Veganforlife]

yea im being very concerned now. I honeslty was doing this diet for weight reasons which also became about health too, I def do not not want to gain back the weight that i have lost becasue i still want to feel good about my self

Then continue to eat100% Raw, workout, think positive thoughts, and read all you can about Raw foods. We truly ARE what we eat!

[Revvell]

The answer to your concerns ~ eat raw, get out and MOVE! It's that simple. Victoria has one part down ~ eat raw. The body is made to MOVE!

We also don't know the mental/emotional state which comes into effect as well. I know for a fact, when many people become balanced mentally/emotionally, they will often eliminate excess weight. On the other hand, many become more mentally and emotionally balanced via eating raw.

Just play with your raw food and stop worrying and concerning. Get out and move!

[Aleesha Sattva]

I guess what gets me is folks questioning the long term effects of this diet. I'm sorry but if the SAD/CRAP diet was scrutinized a fraction of how this healthy, healing way of eating is, I bet a body part folks would not shovel that garbage down their throats at the speed of light like they do now.


yea im being very concerned now. I honeslty was doing this diet for weight reasons which also became about health too, I def do not not want to gain back the weight that i have lost becasue i still want to feel good about my self

so then what's your alternative? to eat SAD food?

sorry folks... makes me giggle every time i hear people say (or type) that they are concerned about the long term effects of eating healthy LOL that's like saying you are concerned about the long term effects on your body by doing yoga ... or the long term effects on your mind by meditating...

*giggling and leaving the room with her yoga mat, mediation pillow and a cup of cantaloupe juice*

[Aleesha Sattva]

watch this! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fULtU2NfPQA)

[RawKnitster]

I spent an evening listening to Victoria Boutenko talk for 3 hours about her raw journey from beginning to present. She did indeed address her weight issure and how people talk about it.

She stated that she is just a woman trying to do the best she can. She works in an office, writes a lot, and eats too much in the evening, and needs to exercise more. She also has to deal with a long family history of obesity.

She is very aware that the weight gain is from having a second and even third plate of food in the evening as a way to decompress from the work day. Both she and her daughter are trying to exercise more.

She is in great health and has the softest, most beautiful complexion you can imagine.

On a personal note, I have lost about another 10 pounds since the picture below was taken. If you read my blog then you know I am a huge foodie and love to make special recipes and desserts. I have been on many plateaus since going raw. I even gain a few pounds back once in a while, probably because of the pies I make. Does it matter? No way! I'm still losing in the long run and feeling great.

When I decide it is time to lose a few more pounds then I add a 30 minute walk to my day, cut back on the raw delights, AND DRINK MORE GREEN SMOOTHIES!!

[katchmoleen]

This frustrates me sooooooo much.

PEOPLE! The woman lost about 100 pounds! And has kept most of it off for many years! How many people can even come close to saying that? It is such a rare accomplishment, and yet people focus on the fact that she is still a little overweight. Sheesh!

She makes me just want to stand up an applaud.

[Revvell]

... people focus on the fact that she is still a little overweight. Sheesh!


Last time I saw Victoria, she was not a "little overweight". I am a little overweight; she's obese. This is not to put her down. I adore everything she's done for and with her research for the raw community and I know it's embarassing for her to have regained that much weight yet, it IS a topic within the community and to not address it is ridiculous. She's willing to address it.

Now, what she does about it, if anything, is her business. We talked about it and it's something she's experimenting with. At the end of our interview, I believe I said something to the effect that whatever happens with us can be learning tools for others. Knowing what I know of Victoria, whatever she's doing, she's learning from and yes, I applaud her for her honesty and integrity in sharing her and her family's journeys with us.

[RawLibrarian]

So? Let me get this straight. Being thin and slim constitutes health? I personally don't think so. Victoria and Alissa and me and a multitude of others have healed and cured themselves of illness and dis-eases by eating HEALTHY! There is so much data that not only Victoria and Alissa have brought to light, but the pioneers like Ann Wigmore studied and researched and PROVED that the long-term results of eating a living diet can have. It doesn't take a lot ofscientific data, but common sense.
Eating LIVING foods will keep us alive and healthy. Eating dead foods will do nothing.
Like Ann Wigmore said, "Eating live foods equal live bodies. Eating dead foods equal dead bodies."

True, all of it ... but Alissa exercises strenuously every day, as she says in her book--she works out at least one hour a day, usually more. She is in top physical condition, as you can see from her photos. She's very buff and not scrawny or emaciated. She looks great.

I applaud Victoria for her contributions, and for the weight loss that she has attained, but Rev is right--people are designed to move. What would help Victoria decompress after her work day would be a vigorous walk, not additional food, and I hope that she can carve out the time to do this for herself.

[Mary Kay]

Katchmoleen, I think what most people are saying -and I agree - is that Victoria may have lost 100 lbs, but no doubt, she's gained most of it back, while being a spokesperson for RAW. We all appreciate what she's done for us.

And now you're all going to slam me, I bet, but I hope Victoria realizes that she's a role model as she's out there in the public eye...and that gives her more incentive to cut some of the fat/sugar combo and abundance of food she's ingesting, and start moving. Kind of like - it's almost a responsibility!

Mary Kay

[Aleesha Sattva]

I don't think it's her responsibility... but it would certainly sell more books. I imagine that some people who haven't read her books or heard her speak would be less interested if they saw her.

I have a friend who asks me (every time I see her) to recommend her to anyone I know who wants to release weight and doesn't want to go raw (as I coach people to go raw and/or increase the raw in their diets). She does EFT. I told her (as kindly as possible) that I can't imagine someone wanting to come to her to release weight since she's so overweight herself. (She obese)

I wasn't being mean, I was attempting to explain to her that people look to see where YOU are (as the coach, mentor etc) before they hire you. Kinda like going to see a doctor to get rid of your acne and he's covered in it. Wouldn't instill a lot of confidence.

[Aleesha Sattva]

i found this pic of her. it said it was from 2009/08

[Veganforlife]

You know? Russian women are normally BIG(ger) women.

When you point that finger? Look down at it and see the three other ones pointing back at you?

well then...?

everyBODY is different!

[Aleesha Sattva]

I totally agree with you Lucy and that's exactly what I've thought every time I've seen a pic of Victoria. To me... it doesn't matter a smidge cause I adore the woman. I think she's brought sooooooo much knowledge into my brain I can't even begin to thank her enough.

[Revvell]

O.k., so recommend me! I'm not obese. :D

You know what's interesting to me though is ~ and, some of us were talking about this at RSF in Az ~ people, for some reason, ignore that the people selling stuff aren't walking their talk. For instance, Dr. Phil is selling a weight-loss book, yes? In my eye, the gentleman is a bit portly (unless something's changed). Dr. Weil talks about health. I've NEVER seen that man anything but LARGE! And still, they are making big bucks selling products not because of how they look but because of their marketing, their associations, their degrees, whatevah! People go to doctors who tell them to quit smoking and you can smell the smoke stink on them.

I was at a networking meeting once and had a lil sticky on my name tag that said ummm, hmmm, "Deserving" or something like that. One young woman came up to me and laughed and said "deserving"? I said yes, I am. Aren't you? She backed up a step, blushed and stuttered, "well, I guess so". I asked ~ "what do you do for money?" She said she's a life coach. 'scuse me? And yet, people will go to her because they'll go by HER surface of who she says she is, not who she really is.

Life goes on. ;)






I have a friend who asks me (every time I see her) to recommend her to anyone I know who wants to release weight and doesn't want to go raw (as I coach people to go raw and/or increase the raw in their diets). She does EFT. I told her (as kindly as possible) that I can't imagine someone wanting to come to her to release weight since she's so overweight herself. (She obese)

I wasn't being mean, I was attempting to explain to her that people look to see where YOU are (as the coach, mentor etc) before they hire you. Kinda like going to see a doctor to get rid of your acne and he's covered in it. Wouldn't instill a lot of confidence.

[Veganforlife]

I totally agree with you Lucy and that's exactly what I've thought every time I've seen a pic of Victoria. To me... it doesn't matter a smidge cause I adore the woman. I think she's brought sooooooo much knowledge into my brain I can't even begin to thank her enough.

I don't view people's shells. That is shallow. I view what they have to offer. What their aura is about. What makes them inside.

This world for the sake of the almightly dollah is too quick to cram down everyone's throat you must look this way or that way. Pffft! And what is that teaching our children's children?

I am not one to judge another, unless they mess with me. THAT is another story. But I usually walk away from the situation. NOT with my tail between my legs, but with my head held high.

[Revvell]

Agreed....


I totally agree with you Lucy and that's exactly what I've thought every time I've seen a pic of Victoria. To me... it doesn't matter a smidge cause I adore the woman. I think she's brought sooooooo much knowledge into my brain I can't even begin to thank her enough.

[gabriele]

While this is a touchy subject, I do believe that being overweight is unhealthy. It taxes our organs and joints. I'm not arguing for stick thin model weight here, but I will stick to my guns that for optimal health, weight must be included in the discussion.

I totally agree with this. The bottom line will ALWAYS be calories in, calories out. Whether you chose to count them or not. I've read that even here, in this forum, a lot of people are subtly counting their calories, to get a rough idea of what goes in.

If you eat a lot of fat and sweets, raw or not, you will not lose weight or you might gain weight. Fats, from oils and nuts and all the concoctions that are in the raw recipe books, have a lot of calories.

It is irrelevant whether or not she is liked or respected, she is overweight! We're talking about her body, not her personality! This is of interest since we are all trying to find the "ideal" way of eating, the healthiest way of eating, and here is someone who is very overweight while eating this way. So it's confusing. I say that the healthiest person is one who is on the thin side AND eating raw. Just being thin on a SAD diet doesn't mean you're getting good nutrients. And being overweight, while eating all raw, means you're eating too many calories, which stresses every single organ in your body.

This isn't a discussion pointing fingers at Victoria in a judgmental way, this is a discussion of eating raw, promoting raw in books and videos, and then being overweight. In my opinion being overweight is never healthy, i don't care what anyone says. And i'm pointing the biggest finger at myself, look at my own weight down below.

[Aleesha Sattva]

I don't view people's shells. That is shallow.

I don't think anyone here is being shallow. Talking about this situation isn't something to be ashamed of - at least not in my views. If she's selling books that talk about weight release and health... then there's nothing wrong with looking at her to see if she's walking her talk.

Doesn't mean I respect her any less... it just is what it is.

[Veganforlife]

I don't think anyone here is being shallow. Talking about this situation isn't something to be ashamed of - at least not in my views. If she's selling books that talk about weight release and health... then there's nothing wrong with looking at her to see if she's walking her talk.

Doesn't mean I respect her any less... it just is what it is.

Oh, I wasn't calling anyone HERE shallow, I just mean judging people, I feel in general is shallow. And please OP, DO NOT take it that way.

I feel Victoria has been on overload forever. I'm sure speaking here, there, and everywhere is taxing on one's body. She's contantly on the go, but I thank my lucky stars she is!!!

[Aleesha Sattva]

i think that if my family made all the amazing dehydrator crackers and breads that their family does... i'd be overweight as well. (more than i am now that is)

i just got their latest recipe book... reaaaaaaaaaaally nice!

[iluvmangos]

You know? Russian women are normally BIG(ger) women.

No offense, but that's true for American women as well, but it doesn't mean it's healthy. Being overweight isn't healthy for anyone no matter where they're from. That said, I have no disrespect for Victoria for being overweight.

[Veganforlife]

I think that's a lot of it. They make travel foods. Much easier to travel with crackers and breaks then fresh produce...

I think it's her lifestyle. I know it was mine while working at the Health Food Store. I had access to ALL the nuts I wanted and that basically was my dinner and then I'd go home and shortly thereafter go to bed. Not good. I never worked out, sure that was a physical job, but not a workout.

I know that getting up and moving is a HUGE factor in shaping your body. Easier said than done for many.

[Veganforlife]

No offense, but that's true for American women as well, but it doesn't mean it's healthy. Being overweight isn't healthy for anyone no matter where they're from. That said, I have no disrespect for Victoria for being overweight.

I meant their bone structure. Maybe I'm off base here, but I picture Russian women being big-boned?

Oh, I agree being overweight is not healthy. But what she has done and researched and provided for hundreds of thousands and have changed lives...well, I just love her!

[gabriele]

[QUOTE=Veganforlife;560452]I don't view people's shells. That is shallow. I view what they have to offer. What their aura is about. What makes them inside.

Viewing people's shells tells us about their health, which is what we are discussing. I don't think it's shallow at all. Unfortunately we can't see inside our arteries and hearts and cells.........but a fat body is not a healthy one. If all we cared about is our "auras" then we will die fat and young of a heart attack. I care very much about my "shell".

[gabriele]

how many of us have been to Russia?? i have.......it is a myth that they are large. They are not. Think Anna Kornikova. The are just like everyone else. You're thinking of the cold war potato-eating farm women portrayed on TV all the time. Just like it's a myth that German women are fat, i was born there and they are the thinnest women in all of Europe, seen that first hand.

[iluvmangos]

I meant their bone structure. Maybe I'm off base here, but I picture Russian women being big-boned?

Oh, I agree being overweight is not healthy. But what she has done and researched and provided for hundreds of thousands and have changed lives...well, I just love her!


I haven't seen Victoria in person so I have no idea what her bone structure is like, but the pic that Aleesha shared didn't seem like someone who is just big-boned. She clearly has a weight problem.

Like I said, I mean no offense to her. I'm still overweight myself. I'm working on losing that weight, but I am overweight and would never judge someone for being overweight or mistreat them in any way because I know how it feels.

I just want Victoria to be healthy. I'm sure she has helped a lot of people improve their health and want her to have the same health benefits.

[Veganforlife]

how many of us have been to Russia?? i have.......it is a myth that they are large. They are not. Think Anna Kornikova. The are just like everyone else. You're thinking of the cold war potato-eating farm women portrayed on TV all the time. Just like it's a myth that German women are fat, i was born there and they are the thinnest women in all of Europe, seen that first hand.

Okay. Oops, my bad...that's why I threw it out there...I don't know for sure...

[Veganforlife]

[QUOTE=Veganforlife;560452]I don't view people's shells. That is shallow. I view what they have to offer. What their aura is about. What makes them inside.

Viewing people's shells tells us about their health, which is what we are discussing. I don't think it's shallow at all. Unfortunately we can't see inside our arteries and hearts and cells.........but a fat body is not a healthy one. If all we cared about is our "auras" then we will die fat and young of a heart attack. I care very much about my "shell".

hmmmm, you've brought up a good point...

okay, okay, retracting the shallow. GEEZE LOUISE! Didn't mean to cause a raukus! LOL!!! This is true, but me personally? I still go for what someone has inside to offer...

[Imani]

listen folks i have been raw for sometime now, discovered it in 2002 discovered you guys not long afterwards, raw food helped me heal my hyper thyroid issues, lost some weight, had a raw pregnacy, had a eventless pregnancy even with child with extra chromosome. He had a VSD, again eventless, nursing raw 22months, celebration after celelbration of great health, eventlessness with illness. My child is gorgeous and has never been sick, is raw, has been raw, is completely healthy never sick, never ear infection, never nothing associated with extra chromosome, trisomy 21. He has no mucus ever, I am still raw and all weight from pregnancy gone, but I am still 15 pounds over weight and 45 pounds over my prechildren wieght. I have 5 children, and intially before raw and after 4th child gain weight with a hyper thyroid. Yeap hyper and gained, I also modeled for 10 years. The weight gain was not good. I could have just done full figure, but personally ws too freaked out.
But I am healthy, I do triathlons, I did my first half marathon, I stay hydrated, I eat raw, I drink green smoothies daily. I eat avocado, young coconuts, I am not understanding my slow weight loss. I know some people say stay away from those fats but Ineedthem for good reast milk. I am loosing, but slowly. I do Bikram yoga 2-3 times a week. This weight issue has been over 7 years, I still would not choose SAD. I feel great, I do not feel pain, unless I eat something not good. I heal well, quickly. My skin is flawless, I look very young, I am told younger every year. I feel awesome on the rawsome journey. I see Vitoria she will work out her lack of excercise. and someone said to me a rawfoodist Kristopher AAron from Chicago, like me. Nutririon is King and diet is Queen. They go together. I will continue to do yoga, swim run and bike. I will be moving to a raw eco village in cali soon. I know the energy that will surround me soon will help me achieve my goal weight. But again the feeling great everyday feeling loving, and cheerful, to recover health wise well and my attitude is great. When I get snappy at my chidlren, I rebound fast with love and understanding for self and the children. I have to not bother with weight right now and go for what I feel. I feel awesome rawsome.

Imani

[gabriele]

[QUOTE=gabriele;560466]

okay, okay, retracting the shallow. GEEZE LOUISE! Didn't mean to cause a raukus! LOL!!! This is true, but me personally? I still go for what someone has inside to offer...

No!! no rukus! yes, go for the insides, but we are talking about health and obesity here. The insides are irrelevant to this. Whole separate discussion.

I just hits a nerve with me....why can't we be equally obsessed with the inside AND the outside? It's what you ignore physically that will ruin your life if you end up intubated in a hospital. Or with stents in your arteries that are guaranteed to reclog again. The outside is very important too. Ignore that and you will eventually pay the price, i'm saying....

[Revvell]

When one is doing everything they can to eliminate excess weight and it's just not happening, it's got to be a mental/emotional issue.

When I was asthmatic, eliminating foods which caused the asthma, meaning wheat and dairy, helped about 75% (give or take). The rest was eliminated by addressing the mental/emotional aspects. We didn't do anything specific for the asthma itself ~ just for the whole person.

It's funny how so many refuse to look inside. "why am I still holding on to this weight? I'm doing everything I can! I eat right! I MOVE! what is it?" Well, it's gotta be something inside, yes? There's nowhere else to look ~ and I don't mean inside your physical body, I mean inside your mental/emotional bodies.

[gabriele]

It's funny how so many refuse to look inside. "why am I still holding on to this weight? I'm doing everything I can! I eat right! I MOVE! what is it?" Well, it's gotta be something inside, yes? There's nowhere else to look ~ and I don't mean inside your physical body, I mean inside your mental/emotional bodies.

Yes, Revvell. Every time i was upset, anxious, nervous or just plain happy, i would reach for my Lindt chocolate. Now, having given it up, i don't have anything to reach for!! All my reasons for overeating are laid bare and out in the open. I have to suddenly deal with weird emotions without medicating myself with chocolate. It's very strange. It's like someone took away my meds. Like an emotional detox. For me, much more than a physical detox, an emotional detox.

[Veganforlife]

Yes, Revvell. Every time i was upset, anxious, nervous or just plain happy, i would reach for my Lindt chocolate. Now, having given it up, i don't have anything to reach for!! All my reasons for overeating are laid bare and out in the open. I have to suddenly deal with weird emotions without medicating myself with chocolate. It's very strange. It's like someone took away my meds. Like an emotional detox. For me, much more than a physical detox, an emotional detox.

Why not a Raw version?

[Revvell]

Why not a Raw version?

Why not address the issue instead of sedating and using ANY food as a drug?

[gabriele]

i just can't seem to do it. I have tried, i have all sorts of cocoa, cacao, butter, powder, raw, whatever, i have mixed and matched.......also, i'm a disaster at preparing anything except a smoothie.....

there is nothing that can replace Lindt for me ........i even tried those cacao raw nib things, blech, wow were they horrible.........

maybe one day i will find something.....

[Revvell]

maybe one day i will find something.....

Why not eliminate the emotions causing the cravings?

[Veganforlife]

Why not address the issue instead of sedating and using ANY food as a drug?

AH...MUCH better advice.

You are so smart!!!

[NaturalMama]

May I suggest that it could also be that she eats too much fruit? Fruit causes weight gain in alot of people, especially if they believe it should be the major part of their diet. There is more fruit than greens in her smoothies, plus she eats extra fruit as well. Fruit is great, don't gt me wrong anf we need it but too much of it over long-term isn't healthy in my opinion and does keep the weight on. I have a friend who said she tried to go raw vegan but gained more weight and she was already overweight. She didn't have the info needed to understand that there's more to eat on raw than mostly fruit and associated raw with fruit. She has found that limiting her fruit to 1 or 2 per day is helping her keep the weight off; just too bad she doesn't do the rest of her meals raw. Also, I remember Storm mentioning he gives alot of orange juice to his children, they use ALOT of oranges, and that when they don't have oranges their kids lose weight (I saw this on their website and heard it on an interview). Oranges are high in natural sugars. Oranges are not bad, every good thing in moderation though. And using myself as an example, well I've always had a weight issue but the opposite, I had problems trying to keep the weight on, especially after having a baby because I nurse. I was always too skinny and people would comment on it. Pre-pregnancy I was 105 pounds at nearly 5'4" and I'd be eating constantly or else I'd lose weight. Postpartum due to nursing I'd eat a ton but be 95 lbs, once I got down to 85 lbs. Keep in mind I was not yet raw, but I was eating alot of fresh foods. With this past pregancy (my fourth and fifth children) I was very sick after most foods, but I could eat alot of fruit and I gained alot of weight and my twin babies were 6 lbs 1 ounce and 6 lbs 3 ounces and were born a month early, my dates were accurate. Keep in mind that for me I expected the twins to be much smaller especially bornb early and considering what is normal for me (dd born at 39 weeks was 6 lbs 14 oz, ds born at 41 weeks was 7 pounds 2 ounces and ds born 40 weeks was 5 lbs 12 ounces, his was the pregnancy I ate very little fruit because we couldn't afford it). And most importantly, now my babies are 3 months, they are exclusively nursed and nurse alot, thy are big, beautiful babies with lots of rolls (which is great for them), I am 115 pounds and have maintained that and I do it by adding fresh fruit to my diet, I also eat lots of greens and some healthy fats, but I ate even more fat before going raw and mostly the unhealthy kind that should have made me gain weight. But I never did much fruit, did lots of salads in the past. But the thing is I eat fruit in my diet to maintain a healthy weight, but I don't eat as much fruit as Victoria does (from what I read in her books) and I do excercise now (I didn't excercise much pre-raw because I was often too tired) and I'm nursing twins exclusively who are growing well, I also do less sweet fruits like blueberries and papaya and do the very sweet fruits less. I find I need less fruits to maintain my weight when I mix them with greens as well. Greens are crucial though, so I do greens such as green smoothies but the fruit is equal to or less than the amount of greens I put in. I also have a papaya almost everyday, that's all the fruit I eat daily. I eat other things too though, and you could also call tomatoes and cucumbers fruit, but I'm talking about sweet fruits. I imagine Victoria wouldn't be so overweight if she limited her sweet fruit consumption.... and ofcourse excercise too, but I do excercise and I eat alot less fruit than she does with more physical demands for calories, yet if I ate as much fruit as she does I would certainly be overweight too...this coming from someone who used to have difficulty keeping weight on. Those are just my thoughts on this and I hope I'm making some sense.

NAK

[Mary Kay]

Quote by Gaby:[It is irrelevant whether or not she is liked or respected, she is overweight! We're talking about her body, not her personality! This is of interest since we are all trying to find the "ideal" way of eating, the healthiest way of eating, and here is someone who is very overweight while eating this way. So it's confusing. I say that the healthiest person is one who is on the thin side AND eating raw. Just being thin on a SAD diet doesn't mean you're getting good nutrients. And being overweight, while eating all raw, means you're eating too many calories, which stresses every single organ in your body.

This isn't a discussion pointing fingers at Victoria in a judgmental way, this is a discussion of eating raw, promoting raw in books and videos, and then being overweight. In my opinion being overweight is never healthy, i don't care what anyone says. And i'm pointing the biggest finger at myself, look at my own weight down below.[/QUOTE]


Sorry. I still don't have this "quote" thing down............. But right on, Gaby.

And Gaby, while you're pointing to yourself, don't forget to point to your stats and how far you've come! You go girl!

I have one of Victoria's videos, and yep, she adds lots of nuts, fats, via olive oil, sugars in dates etc. I love her recipes though, but fear I have to moderate to lose some myself.

Mary Kay

[gabriele]

Thanks MaryKay, i have 2 of Victoria's books, i am a supporter of hers too.

Revvell, you ask why not "eliminate" my emotions, .......huh? I think you probably mean "control" or something, because i really don't want to eliminate my emotions. :)) If something makes me mad, or something scares me, i'm going to have emotions! And before, i could grab chocolate. Now, i have to deal with the feelings. That is normal. That's what "normal" people do, they deal with life. If i had NO emotions, i would be a robot. :( The alternative is to go run to the psychiatrist and get some medications which would ruin my liver and i don't want to do this. So outside of drugs or chocolate, i don't see what's really left other than to deal with life. I was just making a point that i personally found it interesting how i'm having these weird feelings and emotions that are pouring out of me whereas before they were being suppressed by hundreds of pounds of Swiss chocolate (no exaggeration there).

[Veganforlife]

Thanks MaryKay, i have 2 of Victoria's books, i am a supporter of hers too.

Revvell, you ask why not "eliminate" my emotions, .......huh? I think you probably mean "control" or something, because i really don't want to eliminate my emotions. :)) If something makes me mad, or something scares me, i'm going to have emotions! And before, i could grab chocolate. Now, i have to deal with the feelings. That is normal. That's what "normal" people do, they deal with life. If i had NO emotions, i would be a robot. :( The alternative is to go run to the psychiatrist and get some medications which would ruin my liver and i don't want to do this. So outside of drugs or chocolate, i don't see what's really left other than to deal with life. I was just making a point that i personally found it interesting how i'm having these weird feelings and emotions that are pouring out of me whereas before they were being suppressed by hundreds of pounds of Swiss chocolate (no exaggeration there).

Why not let go of the CAUSE of the emotions. Not the emotions themselves. But the TRIGGER? Whatever is creating these emotions? Emotions just don't happen...right?

[Revvell]

Better us of words maybe. Yes, to be alive we do need to experience our emotions. I think there's a better word even than control. Ahhh, transform. How's that? Nope. That's not what I want to say either. lol

The issue basically is, as you say, to deal with them, experience them, enjoy them because they are life. Sedating and numbing oneself is never the answer.

The problem is, when the emotions are so out of control... or that people have learned to not feel at all... so, when I work with people we rate the emotion on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being over-the-top at times, then we do the work to bring them to a level they can deal with.

O.k., how about balancing the emotions?

What's interesting is that, even joy will bring up more emotions than most can handle so, it's about being able to handle whatever we feel.

O.k., now you've got me thinking because I enjoy being accurate in what I say. Thankiss. :)

P.S. "normal" people are all doing what everyone else does ~ numbing their feelings. "Natural" people live without numbing and drugging.

The alternative is NOT to go to a psychiatrist and get drugs. That's what "normal" people do. Food addictions are drugs. They're just cheaper and more readily available.




Thanks MaryKay, i have 2 of Victoria's books, i am a supporter of hers too.

Revvell, you ask why not "eliminate" my emotions, .......huh? I think you probably mean "control" or something, because i really don't want to eliminate my emotions. :)) If something makes me mad, or something scares me, i'm going to have emotions! And before, i could grab chocolate. Now, i have to deal with the feelings. That is normal. That's what "normal" people do, they deal with life. If i had NO emotions, i would be a robot. :( The alternative is to go run to the psychiatrist and get some medications which would ruin my liver and i don't want to do this. So outside of drugs or chocolate, i don't see what's really left other than to deal with life. I was just making a point that i personally found it interesting how i'm having these weird feelings and emotions that are pouring out of me whereas before they were being suppressed by hundreds of pounds of Swiss chocolate (no exaggeration there).

[gabriele]

everything you just said is totally right.........

[Revvell]

O.k., I'm writing up an audio segment and what I've is what we need to do is not suppress or eliminate our emotions but EXPRESS them!

Here's what I wrote ~

"Just as most of us were not brought up with a healthy lifestyle, few of us seem to have been encouraged to emotionally express ourselves optimally either as we were growing up ~ and even now! We’re afraid to speak up; afraid to be seen!

Rather than expressing our true feelings vocally or otherwise, we've learned to use food as a coping mechanism, “eating over” our stress and sedating our feelings instead.

By adopting such habits, many of us have created strong emotional patterns around food."

[Veganforlife]

Kinda like "expressing" the big bosom of life...

::runs out of the room laughing::

[Veganforlife]

::runs back in::

Apologizing.

I like that Revvell, really...

[Revvell]

Ahhh, well, the trigger would be what? The thoughts, yeah? "I'm feeling ~ and I need some chocolate." I'm feeling ~ and I need some starchy stuff"... Although we don't actually acknowledge what we are feeling, we just know we are feeling ~ so, numb it!


Why not let go of the CAUSE of the emotions. Not the emotions themselves. But the TRIGGER? Whatever is creating these emotions? Emotions just don't happen...right?

[RawKnitster]

i found this pic of her. it said it was from 2009/08

When I saw her in April 09 she wasn't that big and said she had been losing weight. I will be seeing her next week at the Raw Network of Washington annual gala. I'll let you all know how she is doing.

[gabriele]

and what's nice is that the more i lose weight, the more vocal i get, the more i let my opinions and feelings be known!! Before, fat and insecure, i would try to blend into the furniture and not be so noticed.

i don't feel this way any more. yippee!!!!

[Revvell]

and what's nice is that the more i lose weight, the more vocal i get, the more i let my opinions and feelings be known!! Before, fat and insecure, i would try to blend into the furniture and not be so noticed.

i don't feel this way any more. yippee!!!!

Congrats! Many are the opposite. They've hidden behind the fat for so long they don't know who they are when they eliminate it and are afraid to be seen. Good on ya!

[Aleesha Sattva]

When I saw her in April 09 she wasn't that big and said she had been losing weight. I will be seeing her next week at the Raw Network of Washington annual gala. I'll let you all know how she is doing.

perhaps it was an older pic. ???

[NaturalMama]

The original post that has a link of her on the Regenade Health Show is from July 23, 2009, and she does look pretty overweight.

[RawKnitster]

I saw Victoria speak last night. Yes, she is still overweight and perhaps a bit more than when I last saw her. It simply doesn't matter. The woman is all heart and brains with an amazing wit and humor. Weight issue or not, I could listen to her talk all night. She is smart, funny, and wonderful.

Most days she is on the computer all day, as many as 19 hours a day. She does research in several languages, reading everything she can. And thank goodness she does. I know I have certainly benefited from all the research she does.

She addressed her weight in the speech. Someone in the audience asked a question about how to gain weight on a raw diet. She thought they were asking about her weight gain. Her response was about about all the time she spends reading and lack of movement. Also about her problem with eating in the evening. She is working on a refrigerator lock with a timer to be locked after dinner and not open again until morning. She said her next book would be about how to lose weight for the third time. Not sure if she was joking or serious. After the question was clarified by the moderator her answer was the best way to gain weight was to eat NO FAT for 7 days. Not being able to gain weight is a sign of poor liver function. So, she must have a very clean liver! Her words, not mine. :)

[rawrawks]

I dont know. If I am listening and want to emulate or take advice from any health educator and especially a raw one, I want to see a picture of health. To me, there is no way overweight speaks health.

Even with pc n studying, there has to be movement and discipline to do same. Otherwise arent we imbalanced. To make learning and being on the computer a priority over a body that is in good shape?

Victorias weight always perplexed me.

[RawKnitster]

For the record, as much as I like her and enjoy her teachings, I don't agree with her 100%. If she asked me for advice I would tell her to use more greens and less water in her smoothies, and throw in a heaping Tablespoon or two of Alissa's green food powder.

[ReneeH]

I dont know. If I am listening and want to emulate or take advice from any health educator and especially a raw one, I want to see a picture of health. To me, there is no way overweight speaks health.

Even with pc n studying, there has to be movement and discipline to do same. Otherwise arent we imbalanced. To make learning and being on the computer a priority over a body that is in good shape?

Victorias weight always perplexed me.

Hummm, I don't know about that Rawrawks. I don't think Victoria is saying that overweight means health. She's imperfect like the rest of us, right? Should she keep her knowledge to herself without sharing it because she's overweight? Many Raw foodists and teachers I see are terribly UNDER weight and don't look healthy to me, yet many benefit from their books and classes. It's hard to know looking at the outside who truly is in the "picture of health"...

So, I think it depends on the individual. I mean, look at me. I did the challenge for 60 days and only lost 20 pounds. Still, 20 pounds is 20 pounds, I'm NOT knocking that...I'm still a work in progress. But, should I NOT teach because I'm still 40 pounds overweight? It's funny, because the "weight" question is always one of the first questions people ask me... "How much weight have you lost?" I'm sure that Victoria is tired of that question, too....


Believe me, I've come to realize how important exercise is in total health fitness...I agree with that. Alissa exercises several times a day every day, eat's 100% RAW, and she looks just GREAT, in my opinion. I'm not making excuses for Victoria, she SHOULD exercise more. But I SOOOO appreciate her book on Green Smoothies and I'm glad that she has shared the things she's learned, overweight or not.... :)

[rawrawks]

Oh I am NOT saying anything about her knowledge andher contribution to all of us. Not in any way.She offers value beyond belief.

I said that if I (speaking only for me) am inquiring of a health "guru" or someone in authority or education mode, I (me personally) want to see their vibrant health and that they are walking the walk while talking the talk.

I think it is important always to be in integrity with what we are preaching and teaching. Freeness of speech.

I personally am working on tweaking my eating plan, as I have a couple last things to be in integrity with and then I begin coaching more full time. I cant, in all honesty, teach something I am not doing. Plus I want people to see vibrant health and energy in me and want it for themselves. But YES others can begin to TEACH when ever they want. Everyone who wants to teach is ready right now. I am speaking for me personally. I want to be walking the walk and then talk the talk and have it all be in harmony.

Why I said my last sentence is when I first went raw, I read all the greens for life book and followed it, then seeing her I was perplexed that she was overweight. I didnt say that was bad, it just didnt make sense to me how rawkers could be overweight. Thats all. Not even about her at all. Simply all part of my learning.

I am sorry. i didnt intend badness for any who are overweight. I am a support for those not intending to make them feel badly. Typed words stink sometimes. Not who I am to hurt anyone.

[Veganforlife]

EveryBODY is different...

[rawrawks]

Yipeeeeeeeeeeeeeee thats why I only can speak for me.

[smiley]

I recently saw Victoria give a lecture. I think she is wonderful and I have read everthing she has written.

Anyways, in this lecture she talked about how she was recently teaching her children how to cook food. I was shocked...but she went on to explain that her kids may have to cook for a future partner and she didn't want them to be clueless.

So, I believe that she not only taught her kids how to cook but I"m sure that they ate the food too. And as we all know, once you start cooked food, it is not easy to stop.

This would explain her weight gain.

I completely believe that anyone eating raw food will normalize their weight (whether they need to gain or lose).

I have seen many long-term raw foods people who don't exercise and eat a ton of raw food and still lose weight or keep their stable weight.

I don't understand why but many long-term raw foodists have started adding cooked food in their diet.

I don't agree with that. I will be 100% raw for the rest of my life!

Raw Rawks!!! :cool:

[Raw Angel Mom]

I saw her last year and she has the most beautiful skin that i have seen so far. Very healthy and young looking.

[Loren]

Hi Folks,

Though it's certainly possible that someone knows all the answers but isn't applying them, I have always looked for teachers, coaches, and role models who were actually getting the results they were promising me.

Most of us have ingrained, unconscious, cultural standards about what does and doesn't look OK. People used to seeing almost everyone around them overweight are likely to think that someone who has a healthy amount of body fat is too skinny. There are more than 100 studies that show that the leanest members of virtually every species except those from the coldest climates are the healthiest.

Someone who is having trouble losing weight may certainly be consuming too much, or a less-than-optimal diet.

But they also may not be meeting one of the bodies other needs, including enough sunshine or enough sleep. In both cases, people who are either underweight or overweight may have trouble achieving optimal weight.

Another very common cause is that the body is very toxic, and is unable to deal with the work of eliminating these toxins because it is overwhelmed or the overall vitality is low. Unable to eliminate toxins in the body, the body may be forced to retain excess body fat, which is where these toxins are stored. When people finally have the energy --and opportunity -- to really cleanse the body (most effectively through water-only fasting) the excess weight comes off relatively effortlessly.

[rawrawks]

Yes Loren. I had not exercised at all (although I am always moving and never stop, and am now a runner)and weight kept and keeps dropping off. I eat simple raw and dont overeat. Recipes are too heavy for me. Raw works on weight loss....it normalizes the bod to a perfect weight for the body.

[Loren]

One more thing: when the diet is optimal, there's no need for exercise to maintain ideal weight. Exercise is critical for creating an optimal body composition and overall function of the body, but weight will be self-regulating when the body is clean and we are meeting all of the body's physiological needs.

[ReneeH]

One more thing: when the diet is optimal, there's no need for exercise to maintain ideal weight. .

Sorry, I agree with Alissa and Revell... The body is designed to move. Even Victoria herself agrees that she spends too much time at the computer than exercising. Having a combination of RAW and exercise helped me to lose 23 pounds in a month...verses my now loss of 20 pounds in two months with minimal exercising.... I am certain that if I were able to exercise my loss would have been greater...along WITH eating RAW... that's what Alissa says in her book, pages 131-135 Living on Live Food.

Again, everyBODY is different. Maybe just eating RAW works for you, but most of us out here need to move...

[Loren]

Hi Renee,

I didn't say not to move, and I didn't say burning more calories won't speed up weight loss. We need to move to be healthy, and more exercise will speed up weight loss. What I said was that it is not necessary to exercise for the purpose of losing weight, because a balanced body given an optimal diet will indeed always find it's own optimal weight, and I have many, many clients who have experienced this over the nearly 18 years I've been coaching people on raw food. Hope this clarifies things.

[rawrawks]

eeeeekazoids.... . I edited my post about moving as well. Moving is key to health!!!! Gotta run! :) Sorry my post was about raw works and people lose weight....it wasnt about exercise. Me not sure whats up today? I didnt mean to get into such a touchy subject...sorry all. Love.

[Clare]

That is so weird that she would teach her kids to cook?! I mean, most young people today can hardly cook anyway, so what's the use? And what is she teaching them to cook anyway? You would think they could cross that bridge if they ever came to it by themselves. For example, I was raised vegetarian and totally clueless about cooking meat (still am). But after marrying I tried to make a few things. I could read after all. Fortunately nothing I made was great enough to keep DH from wanting to eat meatless at home now. Now if he wants meat he has to request it, it has to be organic, and it has to go from the freezer to the oven to the plate!

The other thing I have been thinking about since this thread started is that VB might simply be an overeater. Even in her 12 steps book, she admits as much when it comes to cooked foods. She says that she cannot allow even 1% cooked because it opens the door to more and more. Being an overeater myself and a former bulimic, raw has been a huge help as far as fuel goes but is not the complete answer. Raw makes it possible for me to eat normally, but I still need to pray, plan, and work through my emotions in new more mature ways or I will fall again, either binging on raw concoctions or going into cooked food. Teaching someone to cook would not be good for me! My heart goes out to V for the pain she might feel over this issue. Maybe it's hard for her to find support and mentoring when she herself serves as mentor to so many.

[rawrawks]

Clare, you may have hit something here. It may be raw emotions and she overeats. Some take care of all others and not themselves. The mom thing. Bless her.

I find, for me, that sometimes when toughter emotions hit, I read something I wrote and think its from someone else. Thats how far the emotions can take one down. I cry when I read this older post of mine. And it is not so easy , at that time, to apply our own advice, due to where our perspective it at.

Who knows, she might get up, feel like crap and eat same (the unmentionable morning food many prefer that consists of our friends in the yard)...or maybe not ..oh well.

She will make her way like all of us. In the meanwhile, we honor her contribution to all of us and send her our love.

[smiley]

If you are concerned about raw food and plateauing or even gaining weight, look at pictures of Igor. He was just as big as Victoria at first and he is now thin...much thinner than Victoria.

Also, look at Angela Stokes.

These are 2 excellent examples of what 100% raw will do to help weight loss and keep it off (rather than gaining).

I believe cooked food is the key to weight gain...I have been raw now for over 6 years and have spoken to and coached many people during this time. Any time that people have told me that they gained weight eating raw, I would probe further and find out that they did eat cooked food.

I'm not judging anyone, I know it is hard to be 100% raw. I'm just saying I will never blame raw food for gaining weight (unless of course your body needs to gain weight because raw food will normalize your weight).

For example, I lost a lot of weight when I first started, then I gained 10 pounds back and I have holding steady ever since. :cool:

[Aleesha Sattva]

i'm going to close this thread now. we've discussed this... and i feel it's not appropriate to go into their personal lives (as this thread is now heading). posts have been edited to remove the inappropriate comments... and so... time to let this one go into the archives.

in light,
Aleesha
Moderator