Maybe they're gonna learn the hard way

[raweater]

I had given a copy of my raw recipe book to my aunt last xmas half of which is information on the corrupt health care systems. After reading it she basically said "studies always contradict each other so none of them mean anything" because she doesn't understand the difference between a biased study made by the company selling a product and unbiased independent studies that tell the truth.

Well a few months ago her boyfriend started to have problems with his intestines and his diet is horrible and the cause of his problems, but even after my aunt read my book she chose to trust the corrupt health care system that is the #1 cause of death and disease and only interested in exploiting people for profit. Well after the surgery his intestines shut down and swelled and he started having lung problems. Now it looks like they may "have" to do another surgery or give him drugs that may kill him by heart attack.

It blows my mind that people can blindly trust such a corrupt and deadly system even after having been informed about it and now he has been put in a dangerous condition, had his health destroyed, and may be killed because of their gullibility.

[margoss]

that's so sad. We've been lead by medical profession for so long, it's hard for people to not follow sometimes. Many do not realize the commercials are actors, rarely real people. There are many good MDs out there, mainly the bad ones are seen. Also, it's easier, it appears, to follow conventional med vs helping ourselves, making changes. THis could mean that we are responsible for how we are...which in many cases we are. I hope he doesn't need the other surgery.
I have a friend, 47, who has the body of a not taken care of 80's woman. She's on so many meds, over wt. I was trying to help her, get out to walk but she always cancel & make excuses. I quit. She lives 2 mls from a great walking path...wish I had something like that near me. I told her to go 2x week with dog..to lazy to do it. I also think she's embarassed about how she looks she doesn't want people to see her. She was a 12 8yrs ago, now a size 24. She's always been vain.
As it's been said to me on here, we can only lead by example & hope they come too. If not, we can't do anything about it except help them when they come.

[rawrawks]

I feel so blessed to not be misled by the medical hype. Feel sad for those who LOVE medical care. I personally think it is stemmed in people need to be touched...and attention, for real.

[D'vorah]

I'm so sorry for your aunt's boyfriend. I'm sure he's suffering. But I have to say, I hate posts like this one. I don't know a single doctor who intentionally deceives patients for profit, and I know a LOT of doctors. However, I do know many doctors who are themselves decieved and believe what they are presenting to be truth. They believe they are doing good work, helping people the best they know how.

That said, I avoid going to the doctor.

Well wishes to your aunt's bf.

Deborah

[raweater]

I'm so sorry for your aunt's boyfriend. I'm sure he's suffering. But I have to say, I hate posts like this one. I don't know a single doctor who intentionally deceives patients for profit, and I know a LOT of doctors. However, I do know many doctors who are themselves decieved and believe what they are presenting to be truth. They believe they are doing good work, helping people the best they know how.

That said, I avoid going to the doctor.

Well wishes to your aunt's bf.

Deborah

I fully know that most doctors want to help their patients, I never said in my post doctors had bad intentions, I had the health care system is corrupt and made for profit, the entire "education" doctors get is a total fraud so as much as a doctor may want to help none of what they have been led to believe has any truth so they can't help the patients even though they think they are helping them. That's why doctors are among the most unhealthy and shortest lived people.

[brendasue]

" That's why doctors are among the most unhealthy and shortest lived people."

Is there studies to back up that statement?

[Anastazia]

The best book that I've ever read that clearly & powerfully explains how medical studies can be VERY biased & corrupt is "The China Study"...explains it so ANYONE can understand, yet isn't dumbed down...I want to photocopy those parts to have on hand to share with those who use the 'everything contradicts each other so it doesn't matter what I eat" excuse...

There is one more thing I do for those not yet ready to hear, & it makes a big difference, eventually...well, actually, two things:

#1 is to be honest about my journey with this, & about my learning curve,
& #2 is to have compassion, holding no judgement about where they're currently at, with faith that they, too, can change, as I am, & pray for them about it all.

Sharing info with them about their particular health issues (research on what helps, not just food, but herbs, lifestyle changes, what can aggrevate/contribute to their conditions) can also show them you care, & just want them to have a healthier life. A kindly worded e-mail with some links can really be encouraging to them, especially if you include a few of testimonies of folks who've reversed their conditions with nutrition etc.

~Anastazia~

[EZ rider]

I think the reason that health care reform is such a big issue right now is that wall street has taken over the health care system for the purpose of squeezing as much profit as possible out of each customer. I think most doctors really want to help people but the bottom line profit gets in the way as a conflict of interest develops between profit and care.

[GlimR]

I remember the thread you started after she read your book.......same holds now...you love...you offer what knowledge you have if it is wanted...you lead by example...you do not come from a place of anger...you let the rest go...same now as then.

[Seedy]

the corrupt health care system that is the #1 cause of death and disease and only interested in exploiting people for profit.

I think this is way too harsh. I believe that most doctors, and a good many of the researchers in the pharmaceutical companies, are dedicated professionals trying their best to help the sick. That's not to say that those at the top of companies and hospitals aren't guilty of exploiting the weaknesses and laziness of the public to make a buck - they are. But the majority of doctors and researchers are doing the best they can to keep a fat, lazy, irresponsible public from the consequences of their own bad behavior. You gave your aunt the information she needed. She refused it. I see the same thing over and over among my own friends and co-workers. Doctors ( yes, MEDICAL doctors) like John McDougall, T. Colin Cambell, Joel Fuhrman, Neal Barnard, etc. have been publishing and preaching the need for a vegan, low-fat diet for years. What can a doctor do when a patient won't listen, won't change their diet, won't excercise? Drop them as a patient? That isn't even a choice. Doctor's don't always get to pick their patients. All they can do if a patient won't listen to reason is put them on some drug to try and keep them alive for a few more years. Or operate to try and relieve the worst of their symptoms. I speak from experience. I was a fat (+300 pounds), lazy, asthmatics on pills, inhalers, and steroids. I needed a near death experience (I owe my life to the dedication of the emergency room doctors and nurses at the local hospital) to change my ways. And that's the point. It was only when I got off my fat butt and changed my diet, began to exercise, and most important began to READ the information that was out there that I began to get my health back. My doctor was THRILLED about this. He wanted nothing more than to help me get my health back. He helped me cut back of my meds until I was off them. He says I should teach a course in diet. The fact was, the only thing in the way of anyone's health is their own attitude. To blame the doctors is what we used to say in the 70's a 'cop out'. We have the medical establishment that we demanded. Until we are willing to take the reins of our own health, we are the enemy, not them.
Seedy

[snoops]

Seedy, I always love your posts - you are so right on.

[Dararaw36]

Even though I'm moving kind of slowly at taking the reigns of my own healthcare, I completely agree with seedy's post. Eloquently said. Having worked in healthcare, more specifically, the operating room as a surgical technologist, I have seen doctors go out of there way to help a patient, many times making surgery a last resort. In some cases the doctor has tried everything within their power and many young doctors are very open to listening to and using alternative or holistic methods, at least they are here at the University of Iowa. They know this town is full of hippies. :) At any rate, many times, it's the patient that is the stone wall, and not the doctors and it usually has to do with lifestyle and diet.

When we would do lumbar back surgeries, one of the requests of the doctors would be for the patient to lose some weight. More often than not, the patient would not lose the weight or would even gain weight before the procedure, which made the procedure much more difficult, and made healing and therapy difficult as well. Just a simple example.

[raweater]

Argh I had just typed a really long reply and it got lost, I'll retype it in shorter.

It's important to understand doctors are very strictly forbidden from using any treatment other than drugs and surgeries, those caught usign other treatments permanently loose their medical license and get extremely long prison sentences, countless doctors are in jail for having cured patients of their diseases like cancer using nutrition. So very few doctors will risk spending most of their life in jail to help a patient.

Not only that, during the decades of their "education" they are led to believe that diet has nothing to do with health and that only drugs and surgeries offer any hope which is completely false. The only way a doctor can learn that diet can cure diseases is by looking outside of their "education" and find unbiased health information. When I asked my doctor if I should stop eating junk food when I had Crohn's disease she said "absolutely not, keep eating all you want, diet has nothing to do with your health, just take the drugs and surgeries" and she honestly believes that diet has nothing to do with it beacuse that's what she was "taught" for years.

So for these two reasons 99% of doctors can't help their patients no matter ho much they want to.

It is also a sad fact that the treatments medical doctors prescribe are the #1 cause of death killing as many people as if the 9/11 attacks occured 4 to 16 times every single day.

[D'vorah]

Argh I had just typed a really long reply and it got lost, I'll retype it in shorter.

It's important to understand doctors are very strictly forbidden from using any treatment other than drugs and surgeries, those caught usign other treatments permanently loose their medical license and get extremely long prison sentences, countless doctors are in jail for having cured patients of their diseases like cancer using nutrition. So very few doctors will risk spending most of their life in jail to help a patient.

Not only that, during the decades of their "education" they are led to believe that diet has nothing to do with health and that only drugs and surgeries offer any hope which is completely false. The only way a doctor can learn that diet can cure diseases is by looking outside of their "education" and find unbiased health information. When I asked my doctor if I should stop eating junk food when I had Crohn's disease she said "absolutely not, keep eating all you want, diet has nothing to do with your health, just take the drugs and surgeries" and she honestly believes that diet has nothing to do with it beacuse that's what she was "taught" for years.

So for these two reasons 99% of doctors can't help their patients no matter ho much they want to.

It is also a sad fact that the treatments medical doctors prescribe are the #1 cause of death killing as many people as if the 9/11 attacks occured 4 to 16 times every single day.

Not sure what country you live in, but here in America this is completetly NOT true.

Doctors can, and some do, treat with diet, supplements and other "alternative" forms of treatment. They are NOT jailed for doing so. They are not blatantly taught that diet is irrelevent, however, the dietary teachings they do receive would fit in a thimble.

It infuriates me when people say things like the above post, because, no doubt, there are people who are going to believe this crap. I personally know doctors, I myself attended the Medical College of Georgia and have a degree in Occupational Therapy. I attended classes with physical therapists, nurses and doctors. I am currently personally related to physicians and surgeons.

Do they need to open their eyes wider concerning diet? You bet. They are by and large misinformed concerning what constitutes good nutrition. But they would not be jailed for doing so.

D

[raweater]

It is in america that I am talking about, the law specifically states "Only a drug can prevent, treat or cure a disease", it's the law and any doctor that violates it and it caught will be jailed for a long time, many doctors in USA are in prison for curing the patients, USA is the country the most known for this sort of thing, it's the same in Canada too.

They also may not jail a doctor for curing a not profitable disease like a cold with nutrition, but any doctor caught curing cancer with diet (which would otherwise make an average of $300000 in profits) is sure to be jailed, many of them are.

[D'vorah]

It is in america that I am talking about, the law specifically states "Only a drug can prevent, treat or cure a disease", it's the law and any doctor that violates it and it caught will be jailed for a long time, many doctors in USA are in prison for curing the patients, USA is the country the most known for this sort of thing, it's the same in Canada too.

They also may not jail a doctor for curing a not profitable disease like a cold with nutrition, but any doctor caught curing cancer with diet (which would otherwise make an average of $300000 in profits) is sure to be jailed, many of them are.

I don't know where you are getting your "information." Doctors are openly and blatantly treating people with alternatives right here in my community and have been doing so for years. MD's.

I realize that not all that comes out of Western medicine is good or desirable, but this kind of hate directed at the world of medicine is founded in fear, not fact.

D

[Seedy]

I don't know where you are getting your "information." Doctors are openly and blatantly treating people with alternatives right here in my community and have been doing so for years. MD's.

I realize that not all that comes out of Western medicine is good or desirable, but this kind of hate directed at the world of medicine is founded in fear, not fact.

D

I'm not sure where this information comes from either. I know doctors like John McDougall, Neal Barnard and Joel Fuhrman have thriving practices and clinics where they treat many, many diseases with diet alone.
Seedy

[snoops]

I'm sure they are not "legally" allowed to advertise they can cure cancer with diet but it does not mean they cannot try to do it.

[margoss]

yes, it's a legal issue. I had a pt who was a holistic/naturopath who said there were herbal & diet cures but they had to be quiet about it bc they could be jailed & heavily fined. She had helped 3 people.

[rawpreston]

When I asked my doctor if I should stop eating junk food when I had Crohn's disease she said "absolutely not, keep eating all you want, diet has nothing to do with your health, just take the drugs and surgeries" and she honestly believes that diet has nothing to do with it beacuse that's what she was "taught" for years.

Sounds exactly like Paul Nison's story too.