I greatly fear world political unrest

[T-Bird]

Because I can't live without multiple avocados and bananas everyday......


Not to mention dates and mangoes.....


I don't know if I could stay raw in a post-apoctolytic world....

[Tsurugi_Oni]

I'll let you in on a little secret.....

The Raw Food movement is a modern invention. Unless you're a lone nomad in a tropical fruit forest, it's pretty much impossible to naturally stay raw.

How do we eat raw during the winter?? How do we supply refrigerators with power? How would our world's current population feed itself only on raw foods (Impossible)..

Don't get me wrong, raw food is the best way to go. But really it's only possible if half the world starves, nearly all the rest supplement with meats/starches, and we get to benefit due to all the ignorance.

[T-Bird]

The Raw Food movement is a modern invention. Unless you're a lone nomad in a tropical fruit forest, it's pretty much impossible to naturally stay raw.

I would LOVE to be a lone nomad in a tropical fruit forest,well, except for cherries and apples and peaches and nectarine, all needing a minimum number of chill hours per winter.

blueberries, raspberries, strawberries, could I have them in a tropical forest? I don't think so.....

My only hope is to construct a huge bunker/farm in canada. With a one acre "tropical" greenhouse. a one acre "midwestern" greenhouse, and cool hardy crops in the ground....

:)

Now I just need 5 million to pull it off.

[snoops]

We could do it together T-bird. I'm in Canada - you have the growing savy, now we just need the $$.:D

[T-Bird]

Let's troll the internet for converts/contributors.....

Meanwhile, stock up on the ammo.

I can't - I'm in chicago!!! No right to bear arms here......I have to wear long sleeves ALL summer long.

[Rhapsody]

The Raw Food movement is a modern invention.

Modern? Wasn't Jesus a raw foodist? :D
His diet was based on living food, the only difference is that he would drink milk (guess that they had the best milk at that time, pure raw milk :cool:)

Don't believe me? check this link lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMM4GrtTYvg

[Tsurugi_Oni]

I HIGHLY doubt Jesus was a raw foodist. They ate bread, fish, roasted meats, olives, vegetables, and wine. Plus what you don't understand is that RAW food is seasonal. Unless you have mass transport, refrigeration, fertilizers, pesticides, you definately don't do raw food during the winter.

That's why Raw Food is either an ancient nomadic diet, or a modern one. You either chase the green so you always have available raw foods. Or you're sedentary and you ship in raw foods during the winter (a VERY modern convenience).

You'd be surprised how many wild foods are in ur area. During this summer I got 6 gallons of fresh-pressed grape juice from 1 plant, about 3 gallons of mulberries from 1 tree, about 1.5 of gallons of blackberries from 1 golf course, enough Wild Ramps to last my family a year (in 2 hours), and a bunch of other random edibles. And I live relatively close to the city. In about .5-1.5 months I'm going to start picking pistachios and walnuts. And I actually save money doing this over working a min. wage job. Also used to do a little fishing.

The trick to cultivating/finding wild edibles is simple. Knowing the season. Knowing what they look like. Walking around to spot them (driving is too fast). And borders!!!!

Borders is where the most varieties of plants are. Forest - Grassland, Grassland-Pond, etc. Especially wild berries proliferate where there is a lot of sun, usually on the edges of forests, parks, and golf courses. In my neck of the woods (NE Ohio) wild grapes grow like mad, but the typical American has no idea what wild edibles look like. Easy pickinz.

[Aleesha Sattva]

hmm... ever heard of dehydrating in the sun and eating it during the winter? sounds like year round raw foodism to me. :)

[Tsurugi_Oni]

Yah but realistically its a lot more complicated.

In a "natural" setting you have to procure enough food to survive, PLUS extra food for storage during winter. You're going to have to cover a VERY large territory to be able to get enough food to meet these 2 requirements, and thats not even considering competition from others. From mid-fall to mid-spring there are very few fruits, a primary source of calories. Of course you can always collect nuts, which are plentiful. Plus while drying fruits you have to have some way to make sure another animal doesnt' steal your food, AND you still have to procure more food. Some days you may not even get half of ur normal calories, and other days things will be plentiful.

To prepare for winter you have to make a shelter, and chop wood for that shelter (which takes FOREVER!!).

Living the natural life is a lot harder than it seems. I've had to life like a 3rd world country peasant for a while, and it's definately not easy or particularly liberating.

There's a reason why people were nomads. Then started cultivating starches for calories. And then civilization started. Life as a rawfoodist in this modern era is only possible because 99% of the world isn't a raw foodist.

[Aleesha Sattva]

so you are living alone... i'm living and thriving in a huge raw food community... we all collect, dry and store our food together. than we have dance parties under the moon with huge bonfires and some times... in the middle of the night... we are naked in the water teling silly jokes!

[rawmiss]

See its like this. Out of 6 million known species, humans are the only one that cooks its food, that makes cooking unatural. We are meant to eat raw food. The problem is that we have moved out of our natural habitat, the tropics, and have created fake tropical climates (houses) all over the world. The problem is that our food didn't follow us. Now if we had been building greenhouses instead of all these barns . . .

[Rhapsody]

hey Tsurugi_Oni
thanks for the quick reply! :D
Well i don't want to turn this into a "religious" thread haha, but if you've checked my link you would've understood that Jesus was eating raw since he was an essene (ever heard of essene bread?)

"The fundamental teachings of the Essenes were the love of God, love of virtue, love of one's fellow humans as well as respect of all life forms. They abstained from eating meat and cultivated their own crops of wheat and vegetables. To prepare their bread, the Essenes sprouted the grains, ground them into dough, and baked their bread in the desert, heated by the sun, on stones or rocks." (from http://essenehealthbread.com/HistoryOfEsseneBread.aspx)

And yes you can definitely live on raw food during winter, thanks to sprouts, nuts, honey, and dried fruits and veggies. It's all about preparation, look at the nature, ants and squirrels for example prepare for winter during summer, if they can make it, we can as well! :)

Aleesha you're so lucky for living in a raw foodist community, that's awesome!

[Tsurugi_Oni]

Aleesha.... I'm jealous. I need to relocate myself to your coordinates ASAP!

People grouped together with similar intentions can accomplish anything. Sadly since I'm relatively new to the philosophy I don't really have the support (except this lovely forum of course). But as I learn, earn $$$, and live you best believe I'll spread the good news.

Rawmiss... absolutely! Raw food can definately be a way of life, but it'll take a VERY large social movement. Less cows, more orchards. No lawns, only gardens. Plant grape vines along every fence. But currently our world reflects McDonalds, crap food, and a billion other things which work against Truth. People like Aleesha help to embody the truth and transform our world. But pioneers always have the hardest task of leading the movement.

Rhapsody...... I love religion/philosophy/anthropology/everything.... I love to learn! All is welcome. Im not saying that raw can't work during the winter. But given our CURRENT world, it's complicated. Basically it's the nature of companies to want to take away our power, and not empower us. They use profit to gain more control, making us dependent. They want us to be drug dependent, food dependent, and just damn dependent on them for everything. Plus the nature of the free market makes it so people who WANT to empower us have a hard time doing it. Because unless they continuously make profit they will lose all of their power and become one of "us". Our world doesn't reflect Truth (health, happiness, unity, joy, ease). It reflects corruption, exploitation, sickness, decay. But I believe as people start realizing that McDonalds, KFC, and pop tarts isn't helping them lead a productive life, they will move towards truth. And just like in nature, the energy from these old ways of life will be "nutrients" for these new systems of Truth to grow (how we spend $$$, how we allocate resources, how we manage ourselves and our land).

Which leads me to an art concept I wanted to do...... A forest of trees, except these trees are sickly trees with "fruits" of burgers, hotdogs, and other junkfoods growing like fruit, falling to the ground and rotting. Then in the middle of the forest is a tree sprouting voluptuous looking fruit. I think it would make an awsome badge... representing our philosophical principles..the forest of junk food would be like the modern world. And the new tree represents the growth of Truth/Life out of the midsts of the Old, the transformation of society.

***Sorry for the long post =(

[Aleesha Sattva]

i live there in my mind... and it's a lovely place indeed!

[Rhapsody]

lol Aleesha! You got me, I should have known that it was too good to be true :o

Tsurugi_Oni, I totally get your point, people who eat processed food should start to wake up and understand that their food isn't coming from friendly farms but from industrial factories that put profit ahead of human health.

[DeborahB]

multiple avocados and bananas everyday......


Not to mention dates and mangoes.....


My perfect day :)

[T-Bird]

I HIGHLY doubt Jesus was a raw foodist. They ate bread, fish, roasted meats, olives, vegetables, and wine. Plus what you don't understand is that RAW food is seasonal. Unless you have mass transport, refrigeration, fertilizers, pesticides, you definately don't do raw food during the winter.

huh? I think you should read the "four seasons harvest" book. It details some history of growing in France during the 18-1900's. The climate of europe is mild enough to grow many hardy greens and root vegetables all year long, and that's what they've lived on pre-industrialized agriculture.

In the new world - just think of the old thankgiving traditions. pumpkins squash, cranberries - things that keep well. Keep in mind that the true thanksgiving was probably at the end of winter to celebrate making it through the much harsher winter of the us vs europe.

Ripe pumpkins properly handled can last 8 months. Also look up root cellaring - you can keep such items as beets, turnips, etc. for months and months.

Storing your crops and growing during the cold seasons was once an art form necessary for survival.

[Cerellia]

Hm, where I live - and this is certainly not the most suitable place for fruits - we have different kinds of berries from spring to late autumn, apples, pears, grapes and different drupes in autumn (which could be sundried to last for the winter), walnuts, hazelnuts, sunflower seeds (and various other seeds) in autmun which can last over the winter. Tomatoes, Cucumbers, Squash/Pumpin, mainly in autums, carrots and other roots almost all year round, greens all year round (in the worst case you have to find them under the snow).
I guess it would work, but it would be quite a limitated diet without the tropical fruits. Also, the only source of fat would be the named nuts and seeds and only in autumn and winter (even if they lasted longer, it would not be a good idea to keep raw nuts for too long).
But then, even though the polulation of Europe, as we know it, has never been raw, most of them were eating mostly plant-based until recent times, because meat was to expensive.

[Cerellia]

Living the natural life is a lot harder than it seems.

I don't doubt that and today, it is probably close to impossible to live that way in a coldish climate, because a large part of those food sources, I mentioned, have been repelled by housing, industry or meat/dairy farming. And even if you are able to be fully self-sufficient in food matters, you would probably still have some running costs and have to work. Then you won't have enough time to gather or grow your food, ect.

[annavon]

hmm... ever heard of dehydrating in the sun and eating it during the winter? sounds like year round raw foodism to me. :)

I bought supplies to make my own sun dehydrator, since I live in the desert where 100f (40c) is not uncommon.

[Tsurugi_Oni]

T-Bird..look what you typed... roots and leafy greens.

Root types are typically always starches, and can't be digested easily. Pumpkins, squashes, taters.... all starches......not sugary fruits.

Leafy greens don't give many calories. Many greens are very good in cold weather, but greens aren't a good source of calories.

If there's one pattern you'll see throughout history its that every society has a staple starch. Rice, wheat, buckwheat, quinoa, maize, plantains, potatoes, and many roots (most 2nd/3rd world countries eat roots or rice).

That's why..... for all of eternity we were nomads. Low population, chasing the green, and enough fruit to feed the low pop. Cultivation of starches is what has allowed us to survive winter in a settlement. They provide a lot of calories and store very well.

Raw food is an ancient and modern luxury.

[T-Bird]

tropical climates produce fruits continuously I believe, on a variety of plants. To those who wandered into less temperate regions, the available food was there - just different..........

Raw food is not a luxury, although perhaps year round fruit in non tropical areas is.....


I honestly don't get your point. It's a big "so what" in my book. Without modern transportation, I'd be eating dried fruit all winter w/o fresh.

Except for the family fruit market down the street......:p

when you add something like a greenhouse in the climate of europe, I think you can get such things as berries, tomatoes, cukes, melons, etc. very early and very late, leaving only 3-4 months of fruitless existence.

Add heat to a greenhouse - and the possibilites are almost endless. Too bad the midwest gets so cold in the winter.

Man is by nature an inventor and innovator. You can't just pretend we're only foragers. We upped the ante quite a long time ago. We is what we is....

[Tsurugi_Oni]

That's what I mean.. raw food in non-tropical regions is a luxury.

Plus without modern transportation, fertilizers, and pesticides (fossil fuel based) we wouldn't have even half the amount of fruits we do now.

I'm not saying that we're ONLY foragers!! You gotta re-read my posts.

I say... that given OUR (western) society, it does not support our way of life. Sure, we can have mass greenhouses. We could have mass urban gardens. But we DON'T because of all of the mass ignorance in the world. The powers that be don't want to lose their power by empowering us. And 99% of the people would rather eat fast food, meat, junk food over live food. This allocates all of our resources to things which don't help the raw way of life.

Yet if we as a people, identified ourselves with this philosophy, Raw could be an extremely easy lifestyle to life. But since that isn't the case, the Raw Foodists have only a drop of power compared to the mass public.

The only thing that I believe in is the power of community. Whenever large groups of people gather and focus their intentions, its almost like a wish is granted. Good or evil. That's the nature of mind. Everything I've said was based off of this context.

[T-Bird]

Plus without modern transportation, fertilizers, and pesticides (fossil fuel based) we wouldn't have even half the amount of fruits we do now.

Don't buy into the hype. Organic methods can far outyield the chemical angle.....I hope to be producing about 1/2 my food within 2-3 years time. Composting for good soil. Seed saving year to year. No expenditures. Just healthy organic produce.

but what about nutrition? If an organic heirloom tomato is worth 3 of the ones bred for looks and transportabiltiy, then you need 1/3 as much.....

The whole fertilizer/pesticide thing is an addiction. Once you destroy the natural ecosystem with the pesticides, the predators who used to eat the pests are gone, a few of the pest come in, multiply insanely, and destroy a crop. Which would have been fine if the natural order were maintained.

Artificial fertilizer can't do anything that rich nutrient-full soil can. Years into the artificial cycle - you have lifeless soil and no predators - then if you try to go all organic, it will take YEARS to restore the ecosystem.

The whole idea that all these things are needed is was brought about by the .......oh - can you guess???

The companies that make them. Who had the FDA in their pockets.

Oh - conspiracy theory anyone?

Organic growers were laughed at, like people with with rotary phones.

Until they proved, scientifically, comparable crop yields.

Seriously, do some real research into this.

[Tsurugi_Oni]

I do organic gardening and I know about a lot of the realities. I also learn a lot from my mom who was a S.Korean subsistence farmer (I actually did a stay out there... it's a hard life in 3rd world conditions). The main things that bring pests is (like you said) unicrops. Pests are also usually a bigger problem with fruits than vegetables, but you can prevent a lot of infestation by harvesting at the right time.

I wouldn't say organic would yield much better results than agribusiness farming (on commodity products), but it does produce food of a whole different nature. There's many super beneficial techniques you can't use when commodity farming. And that's not considering all of the other benefits which can't be fairly calculated in $$$.

[Aleesha Sattva]

Because I can't live without multiple avocados and bananas everyday......


Not to mention dates and mangoes.....


I don't know if I could stay raw in a post-apoctolytic world....

Let's get this thread back on track please.

I believe we were discussing yummy food.

I had the most amazing mango for lunch. It was ripened to absolute PERFECTION!!! mmmmmmm sooooooooooooooo goooooooooooood!!!

[T-Bird]

Yum! I'm soooooooooooooooo hungery - but have eaten all the food I brought to work.:(.

2 hours till quitting time! Then a 1+ hour commute.......


Sigh! I'm hungry!:(

[katchmoleen]

Actually, the original comment was about staying raw in a post-apocolyptic world, and it pretty much stayed on track, IMHO. Is it possible to be raw in any climate without the infrastructure of agribusiness and world wide shipping upon which we so much depend? If the world economic structure collapsed today, how many of us on this board could continue to be raw? I know here in Montana it would be VERY difficult! I definitely would have to convert my entire yard to garden, dry stuff like crazy, and do a lot of foraging, and then I still don't know. There is a huge demand for the huckleberries and other berries that grow wild here! Not much fruit grows here non-wild....too cold.

Having said all that.....I had an amazing lunch which included marinated cauliflower (available locally but the olive oil I marinated it in, not so much), basil flax crackers (we can grow both basil and flax here) and some sunflower seed pate. Sunflowers grow great here, but the miso and lemon juice would have to go!

It would be interesting as a raw foodist to do one of those eat local challenges I have seen other bloggers do. I would definitely NOT be able to start it now, but next summer, maybe?

[Aleesha Sattva]

Oh I know I could do the 'eat locally'... not a problem. I'm such a mono eater that it would be easy for me LOL - AND I love a good deal... so when things are in season... that's what I tend to eat. Of course with being pregnant... I am eating out of my "mono-self" a little bit...

[T-Bird]

but the miso and lemon juice would have to go!

Can't you grow soybeans.......ahhhhhhhhh Miso.

After fermenting with salt for a year, scrape away the mold - and there you are

[T-Bird]

Actually, the original comment was about staying raw in a post-apocolyptic world, and it pretty much stayed on track, IMHO. Is it possible to be raw in any climate without the infrastructure of agribusiness and world wide shipping upon which we so much depend? If the world economic structure collapsed today, how many of us on this board could continue to be raw? I know here in Montana it would be VERY difficult! I definitely would have to convert my entire yard to garden, dry stuff like crazy, and do a lot of foraging, and then I still don't know. There is a huge demand for the huckleberries and other berries that grow wild here! Not much fruit grows here non-wild....too cold.

But if it DID collapse - you'd have to that either way, doncha think?

[Tsurugi_Oni]

Actually, the original comment was about staying raw in a post-apocolyptic world, and it pretty much stayed on track, IMHO. Is it possible to be raw in any climate without the infrastructure of agribusiness and world wide shipping upon which we so much depend? If the world economic structure collapsed today, how many of us on this board could continue to be raw? I know here in Montana it would be VERY difficult! I definitely would have to convert my entire yard to garden, dry stuff like crazy, and do a lot of foraging, and then I still don't know. There is a huge demand for the huckleberries and other berries that grow wild here! Not much fruit grows here non-wild....too cold.

It would be interesting as a raw foodist to do one of those eat local challenges I have seen other bloggers do. I would definitely NOT be able to start it now, but next summer, maybe?

Exactly!! And thats just the start of it........

For me to be raw I absolutely need bananas. They're super cheap, delicious, and about 6 of em fill me up for about 2 hours. I can eat like 10 large apples and still be hungry minutes later.

[SevenKindsOfCookie]

For me to be raw I absolutely need bananas. They're super cheap, delicious, and about 6 of em fill me up for about 2 hours. I can eat like 10 large apples and still be hungry minutes later.

Perhaps it's more practical for you, but do you really need bananas?
That sounds to me like the people saying they can't live without television. :rolleyes:

I'd have no problems staying raw with only local food here in Sweden. There's a lot of high calorie food that can be grown and found wild here that will last through the winter.
I would probably miss things like avocados and bananas like crazy though, but hey, if I can't get it, I can't get it. It's as simple as that.

[katchmoleen]

Yes, I would have to do that, but meat and grain are much more available here. We were organic grain farmers and still have a bin full of grain on the family farm. And the deer come right in our yard. We could survive off that much easier than trying to find and dry enough raw foods to last the winter.

[Tsurugi_Oni]

Given how the world is setup now, definately. If I didn't have bananas I would be too broke to go raw for sure. They're about a third of the price of any other fruit of comparable caloric amount. I'm the furthest thing from a picky eater, but supply and demand is currently kickin my ass when trying to buy *most* local fruits.

[SevenKindsOfCookie]

We could survive off that much easier than trying to find and dry enough raw foods to last the winter.

Doesn't grains need to be collected and dried for storage as well?

Anyhow. You could probably live off just sprouted grain bread for a long time, and it can be done raw if desired.
Nuts are also high calorie food that is perfect for the winter.

[Tsurugi_Oni]

You definately have to prep and cook grains to make them edible. Or else sprout em.

I guess you could eat raw deer o.0

[Green_Woman]

I've had to life like a 3rd world country peasant for a while

A Third-World peasant with pretty reliable internet access, at least? :D

[Cerellia]

"but meat and grain are much more available here"

Where there is meat, there is plant food, otherwise there wouldn't be animals to make meat from.

[Tsurugi_Oni]

I've had to life like a 3rd world country peasant for a while

A Third-World peasant with pretty reliable internet access, at least? :D

No, a third-world peasant with with no running water or electricity. You had to piss on ur corn to give it nutrients, use the pot (literally a pot) outside in pitch black with mountain lions around. If you saw dandelions you would be a fool to pass up lunch, and little finch-like birds were a treat if you could shoot em with a slingshot. Corn was eaten 3x a day, except on your birthday you could maybe eat fish.

Of course the mountains and rivers were breathtakingly gorgeous, almost like something out of a fantasy movie. Lots of wild edibles.

[katchmoleen]

Humans aren't ruminators....we don't have the ability to take greens and convert them to energy the way cows and deer do. For my family of 8 I would have to gather huge amounts of greens in a short time (3-4 months) enough to feed us for the long winter we have here. That deer is available all winter long! Not saying it can't be done but it is very easy to see why our pioneer forefathers lived off meat and grains all winter long, as well as whatever they were able to can and dry.

Bottom line....if I had to supply my own food to feed my family.....my raw days would be over. I would be as high raw as I could, but I am very certain we would eat whatever wild game we could find.

[SevenKindsOfCookie]

Where there is meat, there is plant food, otherwise there wouldn't be animals to make meat from.

We can't survive on a deers diet though. In some places it is actually pretty much impossible for humans to live on plant based food, but there might be hardy plants that other animals can feed on.

I have to wonder why humans live in those places in the first place. Even if I can survive on meat, it's still not a comfortable climate for a hairless ape.
I'd personally leave in a heartbeat. Even if I had to walk for years on foot to find a better place to live.

[coco]

Wow, what an interesting thread! I do agree that we would be most challenged to eat a raw diet, even a high raw diet. I think we would be catching and dining on every unfortunate creature that crossed our paths out of sheer desperation and hunger. Think about how the native people of north america survived, they certainly weren't eating great huge amounts of fruit and salad. And they worked NON STOP to feed themselves and even then many of them starved to death or fell ill in the colder months. It's a joke really to say it can be done because "there's plenty to harvest", that's unrealistically simplistic.

I think those of us with children to feed have a much different perspective on the challenges of implementing any sort of diet into family life. It's so much easier when it's just you and maybe a partner, throw a kid or two into the mix and it's a whole 'nuther story altogether. If it came down to eating the deer or watching my kids starve there would be no question for me.

One thing is for sure, we have the luxurious gift of choosing this diet for ourselves and we should be grateful for it. It would be a nifty experiement to see how well one could survive nutritionally speaking by only ulitizing ones own effort to forage, grow and store food. Until we do there is just no way to fully understand what that entails. I imagine it is much, much harder than any of us can anticipate.

[Tsurugi_Oni]

Exactly!!

Sure meat may not be our optimal food source, but how else did people survive during the ice age? Once the first people started growing complex carbs the population boomed. Now we have a HUGE population and no way to feed everyone Raw. It would take a TON of social engineering to make that happen (planting plants in common grounds), and a dramatic drop in population.

I have a lot of experience in wild foraging and I can give you a little rundown of the realities. You gotta pick pounds of berries just to meet ur calorie requirements for the day. You gotta be nomadic because once you deplete your territory you gotta wander for food. That means that you only carry what you absolutely need. How you going to forage double your calorie intake (saving for winter + spring) while having to be mobile, having to guard your food stores, and constantly wander further and further into unknown territory where food might not exist. What are you going to eat from winter -> early summer? There's very few calorie dense fruits during that time. What about feeding your children? You ever see wild apples that have all those little bugs inside of em? Oh well, you're starving!! Just eat and hope an alien creature doesnt' pop out your stomach.

We can't nibble on brush like a lot of wild animals can. But guess who can turn that inedible brush into something that we can eat for survival? Deer.... buffalo..... boars..... sheep..... goats..... you get the picture.

That's why humans were tropical creatures. You don't need to read a textbook to understand this. Just look around you and try to deeply understand. I'm all about raw foods, but I'm also in touch with reality.

[katchmoleen]

Oh well......global warming's gonna turn the whole planet into a tropical paradise. :D Coconuts in Montana!

Seeing as we had one of the coldest summers on record this summer, I guess global warming is not the answer, eh?:p

[coco]

The term "global warming" is a bit misleading, it's more accurate to say "climate change" because that is what is really meant. Cold when and where it is typically hot, hot when and where it is typically cold, and every variation in between including the dramatic effects on weather (tsunami, hurricane, etc). Though flora and fauna can and do evolve to thrive or at least survive in differing climates, they can't adjust very well to fast, radical changes. We'd be in serious trouble if coconuts started growing in Montana any time soon!

This is great though, if more of us headed in this direction we could change things on a massive scale...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ozX_nt5A4o
That's some brilliant sustainability, gorgeous too!

[Tsurugi_Oni]

Oh well......global warming's gonna turn the whole planet into a tropical paradise. :D Coconuts in Montana!

Seeing as we had one of the coldest summers on record this summer, I guess global warming is not the answer, eh?:p

Lmao.... way to see the silver lining.