I guess any raw foodist would have this eating disorder

[Rufassa]

Eating disorder charities are reporting a rise in the number of people suffering from a serious psychological condition characterised by an obsession with healthy eating.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/aug/16/orthorexia-mental-health-eating-disorder

Mankind has so far survived all major catastrophes. It will also survive modern medicine.
~ Gerhard Kocher

[gabriele]

Is that article for real??

i like that...... "fixation on righteous eating"!!!

[rawrawks]

Info put out by doctors. Why not make up a way that healthy eating also has a (sickness oriented) disorder label???.

If they can convince the people this is a disorder, they can then medicate more for this. Oh boy.

Dont buy the hype.

We are simply seeking to rise above all the stuff sold in the name of "food " today.

Are we sick or suffering from this "disorder"? I would say quite the opposite.

[StarFire]

okay...

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/FireStar_830/COOKIN111.gif ... I say we take over the world with our dangerous green smoothies! :D

[SevenKindsOfCookie]

Are we sick or suffering from this "disorder"? I would say quite the opposite.

Well I think that some suffer actually. It can become an obsession. Like the article say it can be very stressful and create social issues.

But at least many raw food gurus teach a holistic approach to health and doesn't just focus on the food.

[margoss]

anyone can be obcessed with anything. I think it's harmful to say people have an eating disorder when they want safe, healthy food. May be this is decreasing the profit margin of drug companies.

[EZ rider]

I don't care what names they want to call me I'm still not going to eat the foods on their list:

sugar
salt
caffeine
alcohol
wheat
gluten
yeast
soya
dairy

[TaupeRawMan]

I personally don't think every raw foodist (or vegan, etc) has this disorder. This is describing someone whose life revolves around the obsession. For instance, someone with orthorexia might not eat dinner because they forgot to soak the nuts or might not eat while travelling as there is no organic food available, etc. It is a fear-driven approach to eating that is a prison.

Yes, I speak from experience, unfortunately, and am slowly breaking free.

[RawKnitster]

Funny you should bring that up today. I saw the word "orthorexics" for the first time this morning in Michael Pollan's book "In Defense of Food".

He writes "no people on earth worry more about the health consequences of their food choices than we Americans do - and no people suffer from as many diet-related health problems. We are becoming a nation of orthorexics: people with an unhealthy obsession with healthy eating."

I think "unhealthy obsession" are the key words there. I don't think that includes the majority of raw foodies.

In the footnote he states "The term was first proposed in 1996 by the American physician Steven Bratman. Though orthorexia is not yet an eating disorder recoginized by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, academic investigation if under way."

The book is not raw, but it is good reading. It is about how the Nutritional Industrial Complex comprised of error-prone nutrition science and food marketers with help from our government have made us sick and fat.

[Rufassa]

…It is a fear-driven approach to eating that is a prison.

Yes, I speak from experience, unfortunately, and am slowly breaking free.

So maybe you can clear this up for me. If you miss the occasional meal because you forget to soak then wouldn’t that have the same effect on your body as me deciding to fast as part of a cleanse? I too have been in situations where I am out of town, or even in Memphis for that matter, without access to the foods I normally eat, should I be made to feel bad about making a decision not to eat junk until I have access to nutritious foods?

I think the word disorder is being thrown around very loosely here. How is it a disorder if it only causes inconveniences as oppose to major health issues? If one intentionally starves themselves under the guise of fasting then maybe they should be treated as an anorexic, if one purges any unhealthy foods they consume then they may need help as a bulimic, but if some eats all whole raw organic foods with no impurities at optimal levels, regardless of how passionate they are about this, then they should be considered strange at the worst but definitely not ILL.

I have never heard about the people who can’t live without their meat, sugar, SAD garbage, eat tons of unnecessary quantities, etc…being diagnosed with any type of eating disorder; even when they refuse to quite at the immediate risk of death. A family member had to be rushed to the hospital after gorging on sweets at Thanksgiving knowing she was diabetic. No eating disorder discussed in this case yet their attitude towards food could literally KILL them. At the same time if my family were to see this they would immediately start to worry.

I AM obsessed about what goes into my body, its my body, no one else is going to take care of it as I will. But I think it is those that don’t care that need to be checked. And this article seems to paint all of us who do care in the same light an anorexic with a new modern twist.

[Seedy]

I recently reread Steven Bratman's book on oethorexia, 'Health Food Junkies' when I decided to try once again for a sustainable raw vegan diet. I wanted to take a hard look at myself and make sure I was doing this for all the right reasons. Orthorexia can be a real issue for some people. Dr. Bratman has seen people die, not because they wanted to be thin, but because they wanted to eat healthy. Unfortunately, with a few people, what they define as healthy becomes more and more restrictive as time goes by. Its not enough to eat vegan, raw, organic. It has to be vegan, raw, organic, low-fat, no nuts, no grains, no nightshades, fruit only, and on and on until there's virtually nothing left to eat and the person ends up damaging their heart from malnutrition. Sad, but it happens. This time, I've learned to take a relaxed attitute toward diet, but I wasn't always so forgiving of myself. Now, if I'm occasionally 95% raw, I OK with that. Today I took my co-op students out to lunch. The only thing vegetarian on the menu was a veggie wrap. Since the vegetables were raw, I didn't worry too much about the spinach wrapper (which was not). It was a perfectly healthy low-fat vegan meal, just not 100% raw. The world didn't end and I'll be 100% raw with my next meal. This is a real change for me compared to my past behavior where I wouldn't have gone out to eat since I couldn't eat 100% raw 100% of the time. I'm happier (and so are my hamburger eating co-ops ;))
Seedy

[margoss]

I'm the same way, if I'm out someplace or decide to have something I rarely do, I do raw the day b4/after & mainly that day. It's sad the the public has consumed so much junk food that society has trained us to crave. Now, people are resulting to surgery to correct it..gastric bypass which has saved many lives but then many have to follow a diabetic diet. Liposuction vs a good exercise program & diet. I think lipo is good for those who've lost a lost a lot of wt & have extremely saggy skin, that can make you feel worse than the excess wt emotionally. It seems to just be a cycle of food, meds to lose the wt then surgery. It's very sad. Now people are more conscious on their own, wanting to improve with healthy foods, grown from the ground & it's not good...ok.

[iluvmangos]

If someone starts shaking in fear whenever they're offered a non-organic fruit or vegetable instead of just politely declining and not freaking out over it, maybe they have a disorder. But I can see how this term "orthorexia" can be misapplied to people who simply aren't willing to shove anything and everything down their gullets so as not to offend people.

Even Bratman says,

"Does it sound beyond your ability to eat a meal prepared with love by your mother – one single meal – and not try to control what she serves you?"

http://www.orthorexia.com/Index.php?page=katef

So basically, if I'm not willing to eat just whatever Mom prepares with love for me then I must be mentally ill. :rolleyes:

[RawBabie]

I am at a point where I am raw vegan, organic, no salt, no added sweeteners, no nuts and no grains.

However, I have fibroid tumors and I am doing whatever it takes to be rid of them and the symptoms that come along with them.

I honestly don't think if I would be this 'restrictive' if I didn't have a condition that continues to cause me pain and discomfort.

Ive seen improvement in pretty much all other areas and only a slight improvement in the fibroid symptoms.

I AM obsessed with finding a way to be free of this problem. But I am also obsessed with making sure I don't develop other issues, since I am obviously prone to growths, which could include cancer if Im not careful.

Someone once asked me if I think Im going to live forever by following the raw food diet. I simply replied that it's not about living forever but living the best life I can.

[Rufassa]

…Orthorexia can be a real issue for some people. Dr. Bratman has seen people die, not because they wanted to be thin, but because they wanted to eat healthy. Unfortunately, with a few people, what they define as healthy becomes more and more restrictive as time goes by. Its not enough to eat vegan, raw, organic. It has to be vegan, raw, organic, low-fat, no nuts, no grains, no nightshades, fruit only, and on and on until there's virtually nothing left to eat and the person ends up damaging their heart from malnutrition….

By my definition,
Healthy Food = Food that builds health
The more of this food you eat the healthier you become.

If you start restricting your intake, weather directly or by eliminating choices without allowing for some alternative, that is anorexia [PERIOD]. This is non-sense. There are people such as Richard Blackman who have restricted there diets all the way to nothing but sweet fruits yet he thrives and he is able to perform the most amazing workouts and maintain a physique to die for. He eats only when he is hungry and most importantly he doesn’t try to STARVE his self.


If someone starts shaking in fear whenever they're offered a non-organic fruit or vegetable instead of just politely declining and not freaking out over it, maybe they have a disorder.
But is that a personality disorder or an eating disorder. They could just be rude or weird and all that is going to come of their actions is an extremely healthy, rude, weird person. Or after they settle in to their new lifestyle they may calm down. No medication need in either case.

So what if I try to hand someone an inorganic apple and they are offended or uptight about it. So, What. I am starting to get irritated cause people keep offering me chicken after telling them I am vegetarian (In Memphis vegetarian is automatically translated to semi-veggie), answering a bunch of follow-up questions like “So you don’t even eat cheese, what about milk…” if I happen to say vegan, or hearing that “everything is good in moderation” argument if I say I don’t want to eat something; so maybe they are sick of people trying to give them stuff that they have stated that they don’t want to eat. At the end of the day the results will be better for them so why would I worry about it.

In short let’s separate people who starve themselves to death from people who might be a little (or even a lot) too uptight about their diet. When I started to transition, I must have spent 90% of my waken time looking up diet and health articles, that was all me, my wife, and best friend talked about, and I WOULD be hard on myself if I succumb to temptations. Was I sick, or dedicated? I would definitely get irritated if you kept tempting me with food I loved before I started to transition, most of my focus was on what I ate, and I wasn’t going to eat ANYTHING my mother cooked regardless of how much love accompanied the margarine and sugar.

[TaupeRawMan]

So maybe you can clear this up for me. If you miss the occasional meal because you forget to soak then wouldn’t that have the same effect on your body as me deciding to fast as part of a cleanse? I too have been in situations where I am out of town, or even in Memphis for that matter, without access to the foods I normally eat, should I be made to feel bad about making a decision not to eat junk until I have access to nutritious foods?

I think the word disorder is being thrown around very loosely here. How is it a disorder if it only causes inconveniences as oppose to major health issues? If one intentionally starves themselves under the guise of fasting then maybe they should be treated as an anorexic, if one purges any unhealthy foods they consume then they may need help as a bulimic, but if some eats all whole raw organic foods with no impurities at optimal levels, regardless of how passionate they are about this, then they should be considered strange at the worst but definitely not ILL.

Hi Rufassa -

I think it is about degrees. I am 100% raw, vegan, and organic. If somone invites me out to dinner, I will often decline, take my own food, or not eat as most places that others want to go do not have totally raw, vegan, and organic. Most healthy unobsessed people would go and have a salad and not worry about the fact it isn't organic. I have difficulty enjoying it because of the guilt and fear that it isn't organic. Logic is, although it isn't ideal, a non-organic salad once or twice a year is not going to hurt me. My mind has difficulty with that in the moment, though.

This is not about making a conscious decision to cleanse at times or go on periodic fasts or politely refusing to meat or junk food (these refusals are givens for me). It is when the obsession/fear interferes with the quality of life and is about things (like some possibly non-organic lettuce leaves once in a blue moon) that really won't have any substantial effect on anything.

It sounds like maybe this is not something that affects you. I am working my way toward that.

Hope this helps with your understanding.

[Sheffield_Tiger]

Oh great...

Something else for mates to berate me about (since what I put in my mouth is apparently THEIR business...)

So whilst my belly is decreasing and my energy level is higher than it has been for some time, they can sit self-righteously "telling me off" that what I eat is "bad for me" and an "eating disorder" whilst their bellies expand.

Well, I suppose if eating well makes me feel better, I can't begrudge their petty jibes if it makes them feel better eh?

.....

More seriously, the food and medical/pharmaceutical industries are so massive and so profitable, everyone has to be classified as "ill" or suffering from some "disorder". They benefit from people eating crap and popping a pill. So naturally they want to demonise anyone who deviates from their plan for us.

What they want us to is basically akin to saying "drink loads of alcohol which stresses the liver, then take liver-damaging paracetamol for a quick fix"

I do still drink, much less now than I used to, but I don't claim to be perfect...but the taking of paracetamol for a hangover is quite bizzare when one considers the effects. So if I do ever have a hangover I try to walk it off in the morning, and then just grin and bear it while my body does its bit to recover whilst telling me off. I wouldn't - and have never dreamed of - go taking more damaging substances on top of the damage I have already done.

The food and health"care" concerns treat it the same. Shove a big mac down your neck and if you feel ill, go see a doctor who can give you a capsule of various noxious substances to treat the symptoms. Don't forget how wonderful modern science is, you can carry on as you are and treat the symptoms every day....don't worry about the cause - there's no need. And if you do, we'll classify you as some kind of weirdo.

...and breathe...rant over :)

[annavon]

All I can say is :eek: eek!!! What will they think of next? Wanting to be healthy is a health disorder??? I can see that when one is first starting out, it may seem like an obsession because you have to make changes in your eating habits. Once a person gets used to eating healthier, it becomes a way of life and you don't even think about it.

We have an epidemic of obesity in this country, we could use a few more "orthorexics". I keep hoping for the day when healthy eating is more common place and you can easily find good food any where. I was spoiled for years when I lived in Santa Barbara because there were a lot of healthy restaurants when I lived there. I wish I had that where I now live.

Some of the foods they mention in the article are among the most allergenic foods out there, wheat, gluten, dairy and soy. Others are just empty calories. They also all contribute to an over growth of candida which is a far worse epidemic. (candida causes/contributes to fatigue, headaches, diarhea, poor attention, ADD and ADHD among others).

[green jeanie]

the whole concept of "unconditional acceptance/love" is just so tired.

if i "unconditionally love my mom i eat what ever she serves"


we are at an evolutionary point where our minds are allowed to be ACTIVE! not just manipulated

truth is love. if you have found (through thoughtfulness, INCLUSIVENESS, effort, sincerity, health and experience) what the highest truth to align with you that doesn't harm or exclude others you have every right to exert that truth into your life and be dedicated to keeping aligned with it......no matter what

guilt is garbage and if "love" ties us to weakening our principles it ain't love people!

we have worked hard to strive for health and to educate ourselves. many on this board express dedication and love by sharing their education and time generously to help others who are seeking to improve their lives and health

i am not going to follow anyone around who tells me that the world is flat just because they are sweet or attractive or want me to

we KNOW organic food IS better. we know eating whole foods from nature that supports our wholesomeness in every dimension IS better

can you imagine where we would be if all of the organic pioneers and farmers in this world used pesticides "sometimes" during a hard season.

we wouldn't even have the choices we have now.

so be you. walk your walk with confidence

and if you are inclusive it will be for all!!!! you will become an inspiration for them to be their best and most confident in whatever is most important to them......which might have nothing to do with food or health.....and that is cool

personally i am not in conflict with that and so it has ceased to be a social problem for me. instead i am appreciated for who i am.

i share my food. i love the hell out of everyone no matter what they eat and i check my head every day on where i am coming from in my own life.

i don't seek to be right. i seek to understand

and all that said: when i bonked at 7,000 ft these spring and was out of my raw organic food i ate a cliff bars that a friend had for me. i was grateful, my body was grateful and in the long run the team was stronger

traveling without food if i don't have the mindset to fast, i have had odwalla drinks or trailmix and been grateful again for all of the hard work of previous nutrition pioneers that has made those products so available to us so readily

inclusiveness is love but not mindless following.....that is ignorant

[Aleesha Sattva]

It sounds like maybe this is not something that affects you. I am working my way toward that.

Hope this helps with your understanding.

I send you love and light... I hope you find balance within your Self. Thank you for sharing with us.

love,
Aleesha

[margoss]

so many are fussed at bc of their wt, yet when you try to lose it they always want to feed you. My M would always have pasta & worst tasting mashed potatoes ever. I'd go in she'd want me to eat, I'd say I wasn't hungry. "you have to eat something". THEN, while I would be eating pasta to get her leave me alone she'd complain about my wt & tell me I needed to look like I did 8yrs ago! I think this is part of the wt issue with many people. Food is used as comfort foods, look at funerals. We don't like to hurt others feelings by rejecting food they made for us so we eat. I don't do that anymore.

[zinny]

"Does it sound beyond your ability to eat a meal prepared with love by your mother – one single meal – and not try to control what she serves you?"


At this point Mom is pretty well trained ;)

Seriously though, when I visit my family they are pretty supportive, ask me what I want in the house, sample my food, etc. They know that I am free to eat whatever of their stuff I want as well.

When my grandmother makes a nice raw salad--the exact same salad that she's made my entire life--but uses a pinch of sugar and a spoonful of white vinegar, I do choose to eat it, even though I wouldn't add those items myself. She is in her 90s and to me it is a real delight to have her make me something that is full of nostalgia and love.

It seems that the 'disorder' part, especially at the level where a person *is in fact eating a healthy diet, is attitude. Sometimes the decision to exclude something from the diet is done easily, without fuss; other people will obsess and make themselves crazy about it.

[annavon]

Hi Rufassa -

I think it is about degrees. I am 100% raw, vegan, and organic. If somone invites me out to dinner, I will often decline, take my own food, or not eat as most places that others want to go do not have totally raw, vegan, and organic. Most healthy unobsessed people would go and have a salad and not worry about the fact it isn't organic. I have difficulty enjoying it because of the guilt and fear that it isn't organic. Logic is, although it isn't ideal, a non-organic salad once or twice a year is not going to hurt me. My mind has difficulty with that in the moment, though.

This is not about making a conscious decision to cleanse at times or go on periodic fasts or politely refusing to meat or junk food (these refusals are givens for me). It is when the obsession/fear interferes with the quality of life and is about things (like some possibly non-organic lettuce leaves once in a blue moon) that really won't have any substantial effect on anything.

It sounds like maybe this is not something that affects you. I am working my way toward that.

Hope this helps with your understanding.

TaupeRawMan: I really feel for you. When I started with raw, I thought that this was the way it had to be. I found that at first I was a bit obsessive. (I almost every raw book out there). I didn't like that feeling. I finally made a concious decision to NOT be obsessive. I realized that there were no raw food police and that nobody was going to criticize me if I ate one cooked item. The way I now look at it, is if I eat 100% raw, organic 90% of the time, that I am doing well. I just do my best. If I am at a potluck, I load up on the salad, but I might try something else. Yesterday, someone made a burrito for me using a spelt tortilla. It was specifically for me because she knows I don't eat wheat. It was so sweet of her that I decided to enjoy it, but only have one (thankfully it was small). I loaded up the rest of my plate with salad and ate salad for dinner. Right back on 100% raw.

The down side is that I have to be more concisous about not letting the non-raw take over. This means that I have to make conscious choices all the way. I keep in mind the title of a raw book I like "Conscious Eating". The consious factor for me is that if the stress/isolation of eating 100% raw is going to make me feel bad emotionally, then the physical improvements are counter acted by the emotional ones. In my book it is better to eat one tortilla and a few beans then to stress over it (stress does a HUGE amount of damage to the body).

Be kind to your self.

With Love, Anna

[lucie-blue]

Wooooow, (this is my first post so please bare with me!)

Ha, people actually make me laugh. Ive suffered from anorexia for 6 years, and I can tell you that without raw food I probably wouldnt be here now! I have gone from being on deaths door to being strong, healthy and happy while leading a full and active life!

Lucie :p

x

[Aleesha Sattva]

so glad you found raw!!! (((hugs)))

[Theobroma]

hey glazed over most of these posts.

Everything in moderation right?

I am knew to this and maybe everyone on here will stomp me for saying this but the person who goes out and eats the unorganic food or a non raw meal ocassionally isnt going to die, isnt going to have health problems etc.

Our bodies are designed to go through a lot of damage (not that, that is acceptable to eat crap!) but if so many people can eat process crap everyday and still live a long life, us keener's are going to be just fine. I guarantee it.

These people their talking about need to realize they already have been looking after themselves well enough these are occasional things. Going way out of your way isnt nessesary. Your still going to be healthy and happy and a unorganic meal, or non raw isnt going to change that.

These are the people so many close minded people who call themselves "carnivorous" make fun of that make us all health enthusiasts look terrible.

ANY kind of lifestyle that becomes harmful needs to be interviend or at least have people step up and say something is wrong.

Eating healthy is supposed to be fun and good for us. Not a prison, and not so black and white.

[coco]

the pendulum swings to find it's balance. we can go from very unhealthy to a little bit too healthy for our own good but i think we all find our center eventually, though it does takes some longer than others. that's all fine, it's a journey, an evolution. at the outset don't we all obsess, study and gobble up so much information to make this new thing make sense to us? i know that i did! and after a while i learned what works for me, what was overboard or unneccessary. it's all good. i am comfortable. maybe that is the key, when it's easy for you, when it's comfortable and feels natural and right you're at the place that doesn't require all that effort and vigilance. until then, it can't be judged to be too much or too little (unless it is damaging your health irreparably, i acknowledge that such a thing does exist).

[EZ rider]

If I'm an "orthorexic" because I don't want to eat these foods:

sugar
salt
caffeine
alcohol
wheat
gluten
yeast
soya
dairy

Then count me in as an "orthorexic".

[Theobroma]

the pendulum swings to find it's balance. we can go from very unhealthy to a little bit too healthy for our own good but i think we all find our center eventually, though it does takes some longer than others. that's all fine, it's a journey, an evolution. at the outset don't we all obsess, study and gobble up so much information to make this new thing make sense to us? i know that i did! and after a while i learned what works for me, what was overboard or unneccessary. it's all good. i am comfortable. maybe that is the key, when it's easy for you, when it's comfortable and feels natural and right you're at the place that doesn't require all that effort and vigilance. until then, it can't be judged to be too much or too little (unless it is damaging your health irreparably, i acknowledge that such a thing does exist).

I fully agree. well said

[DwightLight]

At least the article wasn't this bad: ABC on Orthorexia PT 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-RinnfW52c)
Orthorexia PT 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZupQCDAHgnk)

These videos got to me much more than the article