can't afford organics

[toots]

hi all....I'm new to a raw food lifestyle, and I have one concern. Ok, I know that ideally, we should buy only or mostly organic produce, etc. However, in my case this is IMPOSSIBLE. Let me explain.
I am on disability from a brain injury 8 years ago. I am low-income, on food stamps..my monthly income is about $725.00. I live in the New Orleans area and cannot drive due to my seizure disorder.
Now, in most raw food articles/books/forums I've read, buying organic produce is stressed, and deemed vital to a healthy raw lifestyle.....sometimes they do address the money situation pertaining to buying pricey organic produce, and it usually goes like this:
"Watch where you spend your money. Instead of getting your pedicures or buying that expensive face cream, use that money instead toward purchasing fresh, organic foods."
Or:
"Think of it this way: you'll be saving money in the long run, since you won't be making as many trips to the doctor for health issues", etc.
Well, I don't get pedicures. I don't buy expensive face cream....because I can't afford it! Every dollar I have goes strictly for neccessities.
And as for saving money in the long run? I don't have money NOW...barely enough for the short run.
I swear, it seems that there is not one raw food authority that can relate to those of us living below the poverty line. Everyone seems so upscale and "snooty" about this issue to me. I cannot afford the hefty price, and no amount of savvy budgeting is an option for me. (And no, I can't grow my own since I live in a tiny apartment).
I guess I feel "wrong" and almost guilty because I can't buy organic.
I just want to say loud and clear to the raw community that there are people like myself who honestly cannot afford organic, period.

[spicyfull]

It is what it is and you do what you can. I don't do Organic from the Super Market. The Organic I get, I grow. You can also Sprout.

[klomasius]

Never feel guilty for that sort of thing! Bugger what people say!

I can definitely relate to the budget thing, but I have means and ways of getting cheap organic specials at markets I can travel to. Sounds like you have both budget and travel and access constraints. Don't stress yourself over it!

My advice? Take a deep breath, relax, and buy conventional fresh produce.

Ask yourself, is conventional produce better than Macdonalds? You know the answer! ;)

Many people who have been raw and progressed far down that 'natural living' pathway tend sometimes to forget that even though organic is much better for us, some just cannot afford it in their particular current circumstances (I too sometimes forget this as I now buy mostly organic).

But work with what you can afford, you'll still make amazing dishes, feel so much better eating raw foods and gain so many benefits.

Maybe someday you will be able to afford organic produce, or at least start to incorporate more into your diet, but for now, you shouldn't stress about it, rather celebrate eating healthier.

I always say ' If you've pointed yourself in the right direction and are heading that way, then you are where you need to be right now'.

Take care, and don't let the 'organic snobs' get to you. ;)

**hugs**

[j923571]

Hi!
Dont get discouraged by the prices, one solution that I can give you (if you have a yard, or a small balcony) is to plant your own fruits and vegetables.
In New Orleans you have a great weather for this, plus the soil wont be to expensive. Look at it this way, you spen $5 for half a pound of tomatoes when you can buy seeds for the same price! They will be organic, as you wont use pesticides.
Also try to find your "farmers market" that is, instead of going to a chain store or a pricey whole foods organic blabla, try to find local farmers where they sell fruits and vegetables. This will save you a ton.
Good luck

[Dimond]

Just do the best you can and don't worry about it. :)

If growing outdoors as you've mentioned, maybe there's a couple of indoor things you can easily grow on a window sill or porch. Don't overlook any nearby farms or farmer's markets as they often will sell cheaper or have some type of produce box you can buy. Some will even deliver or have locations where people will meet throughout the area.

http://nolafoodcoop.org/buyingclub
http://www.gogreennola.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19&Itemid=42
http://www.neworleans.com/food/farmers-markets.html
http://noffn.org

[toots]

Thank you all for you kindness, really. I know I came across angry and frustrated, but it's not toward you all. Many, if not most people in the raw food community are loving and encouraging, but I've also come across militant folks.
I can't grow anything outside-there is no soil, only concrete....and I have no balconey or porch.
There are no such things as farmers markets where I live. No co-ops, no produce stands. Besides, even if there were, which there aren't, I have no transportation. The buses here in our parish are limited after Katrina, so my choice of stores is limited. I do go to a Whole Foods, where I buy my sprouting seeds and produce. From the bus stop back to my apartment, I have to walk 1/2 mile.
I do grow sprouts, and they are the one thing I am truly grateful for. It's so wonderful to have these precious plants growing in my cupboard:)
I guess I feel down sometimes when I read in books that our produce is practically worthless, or even harmful if not organic.
Someone replied that non-organic fruits and veggies is better than McDonalds....I had to smile!
Thanks for your replies...I feel better knowing I'm not alone in this and that there are people who really do care.

Blessings, Suzy:)

[klomasius]

Sounds like you are doing the best you can! Which is brilliant! GO YOU!

Sprouts are great aren't they. You're doing better than me in that aspect, I have a fancy schmancy three tier sprouter and just bought a container of SPROUTED alfalfa! :( I'm just so busy I forget to water them and my last batch turned into stinky mush! :rolleyes:

[Cerellia]

Hi,
If you have an organic supermarket in your area, you can ask if they make special offers for fruits and veggis that are almost gone off. This way, I get my organic fruits cheaper than I would get convential fruits. I can't store them for long but since I go shopping nearly every day, that is ok.
Sprouds and home grown veggis are also a cheap alternative. At least some kitchen herbs can be grown indoors in pots. Or you can watch out for pick-it-yourself offers.
If you can manage to buy partly organic and partly convential, buy only the fruits with thick pearing (like banana, oranges, ect.) conventinal so at least the pesticides are not directly sprayed on the fruit.

[toots]

Klomasius, you make me laugh! I'd like to get one of those fancy sprouter-thingys sometime, just to see how it works.:)
I think maybe I can get a bit more creative with my sprouting, now that I think of it....that's what I'm gonna do:)

[Seedy]

Just do the best you can. If you can get to a farmers market, then you can at least find cheap locally grown food, which is an improvement over grocery store food, even if its not organic. Print out the list of food from http://www.foodnews.org/fulllist.php. Foods at the top of the list have the most pesticide residue. If you buy non-organic peaches, for example, make sure you peel them. Sprouting is cheap and will add important greens into your diet. A healthy life style isn't just about food. Its also about lowering stress levels. Don't worry about what others think, you have enough to deal with. There are certain people (although not in this group, thankfully) who wear what they eat like a badge of honor. Anyone who tells you you're a 'bad' person if you don't eat all organic or 100% raw has gotten their ego mixed up with their health and that's not your problem.
Seedy

[toots]

Thanks, Seedy. You worded that very well.
Y'all have given me some great suggestions, and the one that is most feasable for me is the sprouting. I do sprout, but only the same ones, usually. I think I'll go ahead and start growing a wider variety, and become more creative with it. What a miracle it is to grow healthy and yummy plants in my cupboards! Really, I feel better already,thanks to your responses.:o

[SevenKindsOfCookie]

Organic produce does make a difference healthwise, so I can see why it is stressed. But for some people it's sadly not an option.
I also have a very low income, and even though I prioritize food very highly I can't afford to buy everything organic (nor is it available).
I mean, one organic avocado would cost me about $5, that's not realistic. That's more than five times the cost of conventional. The same goes for lemons.
Organic grapes are also very expensive where I live, so simply don't buy grapes, because conventional ones have so many toxins.

But things like bananas, apples, carrots, beets, tomatoes etc. I always buy organic because even if they are twice the price of conventional it's still a fair price.

I also have boxes of local organic food delivered to me every week. They contain a lot of produce for a reasonable price. Have you checked if that's an option where you live?

This time of year I also gather a lot of wild foods in the woods. Lots of different berries, nuts and leafy greens for free.

[toots]

SevenKindsofCookie,
thanks for your suggestions, but honestly none of them are possible for me.
The delivery of local produce thing? There is no such thing here where I live, and besides, I'd have to pay for it, which I couldn't do.
You mention bananas, apples, carrots-how you always buy organic of these even though thay are twice the price of conventional they are still a fair price...I cannot do this. I cannot afford to buy at "twice the conventional price". See, this is what I mean....I've heard over and over how we should at least buy some of our produce organic....great advice, but, again, not possible for me.
There are no farmers markets....no produce stands....no delivery of local produce....no co-ops...and for me, remember, I am extremely low income.....my electric gets turned off occassionaly because I can't pay my bill. I have an annual income of about $8,500.00.
I have to settle for conventional....as crappy as it is, or so alot of people say.
I'm just trying to make it work for me, and that's all I can do.

[toots]

Going out and picking wild edibles? I live in a city....there are no woods. I have no porch, no balconey, no soil, no farmers markets, no money to buy any organic food at all. Please read my previous posts.

[klomasius]

Klomasius, you make me laugh! I'd like to get one of those fancy sprouter-thingys sometime, just to see how it works.:)
I think maybe I can get a bit more creative with my sprouting, now that I think of it....that's what I'm gonna do:)

lol, how does one get more creative with sprouting?? You must educate me. :)

Glad I make you laugh, that'll combat the evil effects of the non organic fruit. ;)

[gabriele]

Toots, what you need is the list of fruits with the most and the least pesticide residue. I can't always buy organic either, so i keep in my mind which fruits are the worst and which ones aren't so bad if eaten non-organic.

The worst offenders, in the order of "worstness", are:

Peaches (the very worst)
apples
sweet bell peppers
celery
nectarines
strawberries
cherries
kale
leafy greens
grapes
carrots
pears
potatoes

So you should be aware that those carry the highest amount of pesticides. The BEST, which have a low residue of pesticides, are:

onions
avocado
corn
pineapple
mango
asparagus
sweet peas
kiwi
cabbage
eggplant
papaya
watermelon
broccoli
tomato
sweet potato

Hope this helps, it helps me when i go to a "regular" grocery store.

[SevenKindsOfCookie]

I have to settle for conventional....as crappy as it is, or so alot of people say.
I'm just trying to make it work for me, and that's all I can do.

Yeah, that's all you can do and you should certainly not feel bad about it.
And as someone mentioned there's a lot worse food out there.

I hope things are looking better for you in the future!

[Tina D]

Look at the pices they might not be as bad. In my area organic lemon is 15cents diff , a bag of apples 50 cents,but even that might be too much for limited income people though. Don't know about prices where you live but alot of places have food banks, even co-ops( for reduced cost) that give out fruits and veggies.I can't get all my foods organic as our area just started to get most of it. he's a co op worth looking into: http://www.nolafoodcoop.org/

[coco]

you know what? who cares what other people say about organic being better than non organic? really, this is negligable in your life (and not just your life Toots, lots of people share your situation, you aren't alone:)) and so you can just act like it doesn't exist. it's a non-issue. there are lots of studies that say that organic and conventional produce contain the same amount of nutrients and whether that is true or not you can think and act as though it is without harm to you. it's the chemical pesticides that are an issue so print out a copy of that list of the most and least pesticide laden that Gabriele posted and carry it in your wallet (i have one in mine) and whenever possible buy from the second list and avoid items from the first. if you wash all produce in a white vinegar and water solution it is said to remove surface pesticides, and you can peel fruit and veg as well (though the ones that are most heavily sprayed will have pesticide residue inside, hence that list. if you really love those veggies and fruits just have them moderately).
one other thing to think about is the body's incredible capacity to detoxify itself. you are already assisting this by feeding yourself a wonderful diet of fresh foods and being mindful about eating junky "glue" foods. other things that you can do include gentle exercise like walking, bike riding (if you can do that), stretching, dancing, laughing and smiling. oh, and letting go of stress, that is the biggest one. stress is more toxic to your mind and body and to the environment around you, to the world really, than anything else. be kind to yourself and you will find your health increasing daily, this i Promise you.

one thing that health seekers can find themselves getting blocked with is the idea that they must pursue perfection and that until they reach that (unattainable) goal. nothing that they Have done has any value, only the things that they haven't done yet. it's so silly, really, when you think about how much better any little improvement is over a SAD diet. every little thing you do, even coming here to post this in the first place, is a wonderful and tremendously powerful step towards positivity and health. it's made you better than you were before. each little sprout you nuture and consume in grateful spirit increases your good health and life-force. every time you choose something healthy over something not, it is positive and good. lots of people have it in their minds that it wasn't good enough because it might not have been perfect and that's a shame. that can nearly cancel out it's benefits IMHO.

sorry to go on and on but i read this sort of thing all the time it seems and i Really wanted to say to you and to all

~ what you give your energy to grows bigger and stronger and more powerful in your life. if you focus on all the things you haven't done yet, where you feel you have failed, goals you haven't attained yet, those are the things that take precedence in your mind and your life.
if you instead focus on each thing that you Have done, all the things that you Are doing, that you Have attained, all the positive steps, well that is what grows stronger and bigger in the sunlight of your attention. so focus on the positive and it will find a way to flourish in your life.


Toots, is there any way at all to increase your income? if you have to walk to the market could you offer a dog walking service and take a dog or two with you? can you teach some local people about sprouting, show them how to do it, offer them a little leaflet to take home for a fee that covers your expenses and a bit more? can you offer to sit with and read to an older person who can't be alone, their family might pay a bit of a fee for that service. i don't know what is possible for you, there might really not be an option but maybe there is something you haven't thought of that would just give you a few bucks that you would enjoy doing and not find stressful. if that doesn't work for you, don't worry about it. things might not be great but you have enough for some fresh produce now, you've got those lovely little sprouts, and you have forums like this for support any time you need it.
peace to you.

[DebB]

Just a little tip ~ I'm able to buy red banded (brown spotted) organic bananas for less then half the price of non-organic bananas. I pay 29¢ per pound for the banded bananas. I bring them home, peel them and freeze them up.

This store (Fred Meyers) tosses all the banded bananas together, organic and non-organic for the same price. I just poke through and pick out the organic ones.

Our Walmart has, what I consider to be, good comparable prices on the few organics they carry. Ours carries broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, carrots, packaged lettuce mixes, scallions - to name a few. *Ü*

[DwightLight]

Hey, just wanted to let you know that RawGuru.com gives discounts to students and families with low income. If you just give them a ring, they will try and work with you. Hope that helps!

[rawmiss]

Most areas have something like this, a box of random produce for cheap. I was hoping that they had a delivery service but it seems like you have to pick it up yourself. My area has something like this but I've never done it, maybe someone who has done this could comment on if they like it or not. Thanks!

http://www.neworleans.com/food/farmers-markets/hollygrove-market.html
Buyers' Club:
The Hollygrove Market & Farm conducts a fresh produce buyers’ club to increase New Orleans residents’ access to fruits and vegetables.

Members receive a weekly assortment of the best local and organic produce available. Boxes include a variety of fruits, vegetables, and herbs—old favorites and new varieties. Each box contains produce for approximately two people.

For $25.00 a week, box assortments of local and organic produce are available. Members are welcome to buy a box however often they like!

-A fresh, organic, and local produce box available for pick-up every Saturday (10-2pm) at the Hollygrove Market & Farm, located at 8301 Olive Street, New Orleans, LA 70118.

[SevenKindsOfCookie]

Most areas have something like this, a box of random produce for cheap.

Yeah, that's how I get most of my produce. I buy one box with veggies and one with fruit.
I'm trying to convince them to make boxes with only mixed leafy greens as well, but so far there has not been many requests for that. :mad:

[Factoid]

Somebody said something about Walmart organic food. Do other US supermarkets have their own house branded, cheaper line of organics? In the UK Tesco and Sainsbury's do. But then again not many "brands" labelled in the produce section, though it shows the farmer I guess.
If physical excercise is not to be too limited for you maybe you could get an alottment at a city farm or something - are there any of these where you live? Some of these organisations also give you good tips on how to just grow a bit of produce in trays inside your apartment too.
I once joined a cooperative too which gave me a discount on food I got there by putting in a few hours work each month/ few months or whatever it was. Wasn't very taxing physically or mentally.

On the topic of how beneficial organic food is, there was recently a big story over here which was headline news too:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/food_and_drink/article6736031.ece

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6732520.ece

Why can't get these links to paste properly? Type in the article title in to google if you want to check them out:
-Organic food has no health benefits, say officials
-Organic food 'no better for health than factory-farmed food' says report

abstract being there are no greater nutritive benefits to organic food over conventional. I still prefer organic as I think the issue of pesticides and harmful fertilisers is concerning, but at least you can know you are still nourishing yourself!

I too want to branch out from organic foods as sometimes I want to eat something but it isn't available organic. Also as the amount of produce I get is increasing I can feel the cost too(this while inflation has rocketed over the past yr in the UK, I also found out that the organic frozen veggies I get are blanched :( so that screws that avenue)

While I'm on the topic are there any health risks specifically for raw foodists who eat conventional produce? I vaguely heard that the harmful substances in them stay/ concentrate in their bodies as they aren't flushed out or something and that this is a danger that must be dealt with. I hope this is a myth.

[iluvmangos]

While I'm on the topic are there any health risks specifically for raw foodists who eat conventional produce?

I'm sure there are. Pesticides aren't food. Whenever you eat something that's not food there are bound to be risks associated with that. I don't have links right now, but I remember reading that some pesticides are carcinogenic and some cause infertility. That's why I buy what I want off the dirty dozen list organic or stay away from it. That doesn't mean everything that's NOT on the dirty dozen list is perfectly clean, but hey, it's better than nothing. Ya do the best you can.