"That's fine for you, but not those kids..."

[Rawkinlocs]

This is what a "well-meaning" friend of ours told my husband as she loaded him down with bags and boxes of "food" (nuggets, canned chili, a ham, Jimmy Dean sausage, popcorn, etc.)! I'm assuming he was sharing with them how we eat these days. She is one who told a parent who said her child doesn't like milk that if he comes to her daycare, he has to drink milk (I guess it would have been different had she said he was allergic to it).

Then she says to him (my dh) that they need things that are...brace yourselves now...NUTRITIOUS and that will stick to their bones :rolleyes:

I am kinda fuming right now because she like FORCED this food on him. So, he asked me what he should do with it and I told him he can take it to his brother's house. I mean, I really hate to give that garbage to anyone but they eat like that anyway...I don't know. He then asks me what about when she asks us if we gave the kids the food and I told him let ME deal with that. I will NOT be bullied into feeding my kids crap by her or anyone and like I told him, if she wants to make a big stink over it, I have no qualms about cutting her out of our lives. I mean, she and her family lives 30 miles away, they weren't intrical parts of our lives for the 6 years we were away from Washington, so it won't be a big deal.

I mean, I hope it doesn't come to that, but I am not going to allow her to put that kind of pressure on me.

Sorry, had to vent.

[Helen Of Tennessee]

Hi Rawkinlocs,

I'm sure you are just burning!!!! But then we know that she is just not informed. Well she is informed, but just not with the right information. Hopefully some time will pass between now and the next time you see the friend so you'll have the chance to calm down and making it easier to explain to her the differences of the nutrition in the foods she gave you and the nutrition in live, raw foods. Sounds like she was really trying to be helpful in the only way she knows. You'll just have to gently start to educate her. My husband is slowly starting to see the light. He couldn't wait until our grandson was old enough so that he could feed him meat. Now he's starting to understand. It could take a while, but do give her a chance to learn the difference . . . you do have to admit that eating raw is very strange to many people (kind of like a cult). Looks like you may have your work cut out for you. Let's hope she's receptive.

<>< Helen of Tennessee

[Rawkinlocs]

Hi Rawkinlocs,

I'm sure you are just burning!!!! But then we know that she is just not informed. Well she is informed, but just not with the right information. Hopefully some time will pass between now and the next time you see the friend so you'll have the chance to calm down and making it easier to explain to her the differences of the nutrition in the foods she gave you and the nutrition in live, raw foods. Sounds like she was really trying to be helpful in the only way she knows. You'll just have to gently start to educate her. My husband is slowly starting to see the light. He couldn't wait until our grandson was old enough so that he could feed him meat. Now he's starting to understand. It could take a while, but do give her a chance to learn the difference . . . you do have to admit that eating raw is very strange to many people (kind of like a cult). Looks like you may have your work cut out for you. Let's hope she's receptive.

<>< Helen of Tennessee


Thanks Helen,

Yeah, I do need time to calm down before I even think about talking to her, otherwise it might not be pretty. I'm just glad she didn't call me on the phone tonight! :eek:

But honestly, knowing "Miss Mary" (that's what all the daycare kids call her) she is NOT going to try to hear me because Miss Mary knows everything!

I mean, she just saw my kids a few weeks ago and was commenting how my 2-year old was pretty big for 2. So she can clearly see that he is eating nutritious foods that "stick to his bones".

But again, thank you for your calming words. I called my husband's cell and he's at my brother-in-laws' dropping off the "food".

[Helen Of Tennessee]

Hi Rawkinlocs,

Even when you talk to her and she isn't responsive, at least you have planted a seed. Someone else may talk to her about nutrition (raw foods). Each time she hears it, from different people, she's more apt to start "thinking" about it. Maybe she'll do her own research then she can "know everything" that there is to know about raw foods.

Just don't discourage if you feel what you share with her is going in one ear and out the other. Just know you planted your seed.

You said she's a daycare worker. Does she watch your children? I'd be a little hesitant in fear that she would try to feed your children foods that you don't want them to have.

<>< Helen of Tennessee

[Rawkinlocs]

Oh no no no...she doesn't watch my children. She's too far away even if we did want her to. But you're right about the planting of the seed. It's so interesting too. Her husband has been sick off and on and when we went to see her, she was limping around and she is kinda "sickly" looking which is sad to me. But she feels "that's all a part of getting old" unfortunately.

Hopefully I will be able to help them if/when the opportunity presents itself.

[Doe]

Rawkinlocs,

I am sorry this is happening to you. Please take measures now to protect your family. Most people haven't a clue about nutrition and health. Unfortunately a person who will force food on someone may try stronger tactics. Especially if she has ‘authority’ over other people’s children and believes she has a ‘responsibility’ to report what she sees as neglect.

I know you just moved. Did you bring your children's past medical records with you? With recent, and not so recent, events here in the US concerning children and raw foods it may be the course of wisdom to have their records. Also please take them to a Dr for a wellness checkup now and on an annual basis. Having documented proof that your children are being well cared for and are physically, mentally, and emotionally healthy will serve as a protection.

Might be a good time to communicate with Jinjee and see if she has any advice. Victoria Boutenko would be another. I do not suggest that you teach your children to lie, but I don't condemn her for it either. However I would NOT communicate in any way with the family in south Florida since at the moment they are considered by the law to be criminals. Association with known criminals would count against you.

I will be thinking about you and praying for you and your hubby to be successful in safeguarding your family’s health through raw foods, home schooling, and gaining any knowledge needed at the time to keep you all together, happy, and in peace.

Teri S

[Rawkinlocs]

Thanks so much Doe!

Yes, the thought did occur to me about her possibly reporting us and I will take your advice about the wellness visits and records just to be on the safe side because that could get sticky if she did blow the whistle on us.

But if/when she ever does get around to asking me about our kids' diets, I'll just tell her they eat:

ice cream
spaghetti/pasta
oatmeal
fruit
veggies
stir-fry
cookies
crackers
brownies
cake
etc.

Because they DO...just raw-style! ;) That's something I also explained to my husband is that we tend to present our diet to others by making it seem as though they just run around nibbling on fruit and veggies (NOT that there's anything wrong with that) but when talking to those who are well-versed in the system, we have to paint a "different" picture under certain circumstances to avoid the heat. Sadly, but true!

[Doe]

Smart woman. Most anything can be said, or not said, in an honest way. Hmmm ... you might add meatloaf and burgers or something else that would fit into that 'necessary' food group, to back up the spaghetti.

Teri S

[Revvell]

Ohhh, tooo funny! I can see you fumin' Cherie. People are something else, aren't they? They want people to do as they do and eat as they do ~ anything else scares them.

Well, I think you're handling it just right. Remember ~ you can't teach pigs to sing. You'll just irritate the pig and frustrate yourself.

Have a blessed day ~

:cool:

[Arky]

Lol - I'm so amused by this because my parents have repeatedly expressed concern that I cannot be eating a balanced diet, since going high%-raw. It's just so absurd to hear that from them when they happily sit down and eat icecream, white bread and crisps on a daily basis, and taking little care to obtain essential fats etc. or substantial quantities of greens and fruits.

Each to their own, but at least they don't foist their food choices upon me as your neighbour did on your husband, well though she meant it. She's a victim of cultural indoctrination just as much as the rest of the general populace, though, so please don't be too hard on her, provided she respects your standpoint once you have clearly explained it to her, and the background behind it. If she still opposes the way you feed your children, then (IMHO) would be the time to turn your back on her.


J.

[Sweet lips]

Please tell me that you were not storming around, having a smoke rising from your head like a little smoke stack, and daring your DH to even open his mouth to retort anything that has been said.

You do realize that you have proven how serious you are about this lifestyle, and what lengths you will go to, as a mother lion who is protecting her cubs. Watch out there now!!! Cherie is on the scene and is large and in charge!

It is unfortunate that this woman is blinded by her own information and not open to further growth - fear not, hold your peace, this battle is not yours and be cool with it that it is not. Now, Cherie, don't smack her okay! :eek:

[flutterfly]

This reminds me of when my kids were young. I always had my kids eating healthy. Everyone around me would stick their nose into what they were fed. I finally got all the kids matching t-shirts that said "Don't feel me junk food". They wore them to my Mothers and Sisters house lol

[Sharon in Colorado]

Well even though you'd like to smack her (which I would, for sure) you may want to psychologically hurt her with drippingly sweet kindness. Something like "oh, thank you so much for all that food - my brother's family is really enjoying it". Ha - what could she say?

I guess if she persists, you can always tell her that "oh, I'm sorry, we don't put that *kind* of food in our bodies, but can I interest you in some fruit to snack on while you're here?"....who knows, that would either royally tick her off or peak her interest more because you are so loving and calm.

On second thought, after reading your other posts, perhaps offer her your version of ice cream, fudge, apple pie etc whilst she and her nose are visiting you.

[vegggeeemom]

I can totally understand why you'd be fuming!
I have come to realize that I just don't tell anyone about my lifestyle anymore and it seems better that way. If they are intersted and they ask, I am very general.
If they are really really intersted, then I tell a little more. If they are really really really intersted they always come back and then I tell alot more and share websites.
But, I've stopped telling so much the first inquiry.
Seems cold, but I am just sick and tired of all the judging. I am not judging them for the way that they eat.
I have an 11 month old that is still excusively nursing and she out of the blue came up and said, "Are you feeding this little guy solids yet"? I said, no. She said she was concerned about that because when I do start him on solids he's gonna reject it because of the spoon tongue reaction! :rolling eyes:
I said, well I am positive he is not going to have a problem, I fed my other son that same way and he is 3.5 years old now and eating just fine! She had nothing to say and had to take her stuff to her car.
It's outrageous. I don't get on her for drinking Mountain Dew and eating tons of yucky food.
I don't even tell people anymore that I'm still nursing. Why do they need to know?
This woman is a nurse and is a know it all and it is getting old to her all her advise. I stay away from her as much as possible! :) But, am nice about it, I just am always busy when I see her and don't have time to chat!!
I've decided what I do for my family is my business, it is not harming my children and they don't need to know all the details. This woman is the type of woman to call cps if she feels something is out of sorts. She's done it to her own children.
Ok, sorry for such a long reply, but people getting in other people's business is really getting under my skin!
But, like someone said, if you're (and me) are dripping sweet to these people, they may say, hey, maybe there's something to that type of lifestyle!!
So, I will try and change my reply for the next time! ;)

Pam

[Rawkinlocs]

Thank you for all your replies, support and advice!

I know she means well, I honestly believe she does. She just has a very forceful approach. But when the time comes to face her and her questions, I'll be well-armed with patience, kindness and just the right amount and quality of information to get her off my back! ;)

[Arky]

Can she read..?


J.

[Rawkinlocs]

...but first, Arky, yes she can read. Were you going to suggest me giving her websites or books?

Well, I wanted to share a surprising update on the situation. My husband does computer servicing for them now and he went over there to help them set up wireless for their internet on their laptops.

Anyway, I rode with him and I went armed with the knowledge I have, a few books and my laptop that has some things on that.

She never asked about the food she "donated" to us, but we talked about other things instead. Then, I needed something and when she got up...oh MY she was having a hard time and bent over and rubbing her knee. So, she mentioned something about the pain in her knee and leg and I asked her, "What are they (doctors) doing for it?" She told me that she goes to therapy and after the pain of them pulling on it, etc. that it usually feels better.

So, I asked if she had injured herself or something and she said she had some form of (I forgot, but it wasn't rheumatoid) arthritis. I said to her boldly...

"Miss Mary, now I KNOW you have your beliefs, but I'm gonna tell ya, DAIRY is your main culprit here!" She said, "Dairy?!?" and I said, "YES, dairy...d-a-i-r-y!" So, we spent the next hour or so talking about it and she is now going to do a month dairy-free "just to see" if it helps or not.

Also, we kinda got on the subject of kids and I pulled out my laptop and showed her before and after shots of my youngest daughter's skin who had severe eczema for the first 4 years of her life. She was amazed when I told her that NOTHING that was ever prescribed or bought from a store ever helped...nothing until I changed her diet. She then began to tell me of her granddaughter who lives in Japan (military parents stationed there) who suffers from very severe eczema and she is now going to pass the information I shared over to her daughter for the little girl.

I just wanted to share how the story ended with a twist and how the "lion was able to be tamed down to a kitty" so-to-speak and I believe that with the right approach, I may be able to share more with Mary and her husband about raw foods because they are both ailing and her husband had been in and out of hospitals prior to us moving back, etc.

So, when it was time to leave, we ended our visit with her saying, "Well, next time yall come over, I'll try to have things that you eat."

Thanks for "listening"!

[Dawn39]

...but first, Arky, yes she can read. Were you going to suggest me giving her websites or books?

Well, I wanted to share a surprising update on the situation. My husband does computer servicing for them now and he went over there to help them set up wireless for their internet on their laptops.

Anyway, I rode with him and I went armed with the knowledge I have, a few books and my laptop that has some things on that.

She never asked about the food she "donated" to us, but we talked about other things instead. Then, I needed something and when she got up...oh MY she was having a hard time and bent over and rubbing her knee. So, she mentioned something about the pain in her knee and leg and I asked her, "What are they (doctors) doing for it?" She told me that she goes to therapy and after the pain of them pulling on it, etc. that it usually feels better.

So, I asked if she had injured herself or something and she said she had some form of (I forgot, but it wasn't rheumatoid) arthritis. I said to her boldly...

"Miss Mary, now I KNOW you have your beliefs, but I'm gonna tell ya, DAIRY is your main culprit here!" She said, "Dairy?!?" and I said, "YES, dairy...d-a-i-r-y!" So, we spent the next hour or so talking about it and she is now going to do a month dairy-free "just to see" if it helps or not.

Also, we kinda got on the subject of kids and I pulled out my laptop and showed her before and after shots of my youngest daughter's skin who had severe eczema for the first 4 years of her life. She was amazed when I told her that NOTHING that was ever prescribed or bought from a store ever helped...nothing until I changed her diet. She then began to tell me of her granddaughter who lives in Japan (military parents stationed there) who suffers from very severe eczema and she is now going to pass the information I shared over to her daughter for the little girl.

I just wanted to share how the story ended with a twist and how the "lion was able to be tamed down to a kitty" so-to-speak and I believe that with the right approach, I may be able to share more with Mary and her husband about raw foods because they are both ailing and her husband had been in and out of hospitals prior to us moving back, etc.

So, when it was time to leave, we ended our visit with her saying, "Well, next time yall come over, I'll try to have things that you eat."

Thanks for "listening"!

Amen

Deuteronomy 10:21 (NIV)
21 He is your praise; he is your God, who performed for you those great and awesome wonders you saw with your own eyes

[Helen Of Tennessee]

Dearest Rawkinlocs!!!!!

I'm sitting here in awe!!!! This is such great news! This is such great news to hear and it didn't take long from the beginning when you thought you were going to have a fight on your hands to where this ladies eyes have been opened, peacefully! I'm so glad you are a patient lady and kept your cool. People are more apt to listen to someone who is calm but strong in what they believe in. You did a GREAT job. Way to go! (here's a high 5, not sure how to show this - LOL).

I hope cutting out dairy helps her. Don't forget that grains plays havoc on joint pain so if she's still eating grains she'll still probably be feeling pain but maybe not as much once she cuts out dairy. (I have joint pain when I eat grains).

<>< Helen of Tennessee

[Sharon in Colorado]

Okay that is absolutely amazing. At the very least, if she still 'shuns' this way of eating, I know she won't ever give you or her day care people a hard time about a different kind of diet. Her eyes are opened that people have different needs and what might work for her (well, it doesn't does it?) might not necessarily work for others.

Good work Raw Soldier!

[sweetgoddess]

You are just SO beautiful Rawkinlocs~Goddess!

[Rawkinlocs]

Thanks Dawn - this WAS indeed a blessing from the Lord!! Amen! \o/

Helen, Sharon, Sweetgoddess - thank you! :) I did think about grains too Helen, but didn't want to push it! LOL! But there WILL be more opportunities to share more with her/them. I just know it! The seed's been planted.

[blessed]

Hi,
My husband and I have lived the nightmare. I don't mean to scare you but to inform you and your husband. What has been said is correct get your children's medical records and whatever other papers that you can get school records if they are school age, keep these in a safe place. People that are running daycare centers are instructed to report anything out of the norm and also if they feel overly concerned about what is going on with the child whether they have actual proof the child is being neglected or abused they are told they must contact State Officials. Please do not take what is being said to you lightly. Once you get mixed up in the system it is very, very difficult and costly to get out of it. It does not matter that these people live miles away from you, if a report goes in you will be visited by State workers, remember many of them will not agree with your lifestyle and they will want to take the children to make sure they meet their weight and height percentages and you may be required to take parenting classes to get them returned and you may have to go before a judge while you are going through all of this.
Again I don't mean to scare you but please listen to the people who have posted and don't be in a hurry to tell the daycare what you feed your child as then they will have something that they can use against you. Get a Doctor that is familiar with you lifestyle that will back you up.

God Bless you All
Shirley

[Dawn39]

We aren't raising feral children here. Just young healthy vibrant human beings that wish to break from social norms.

Though you have a valid point on the chicken littles that call on the "SS"

So Rawkinlocs you homeschool so you may be a member of HS organizations I sound like a spokeperson (I'm not) but HSLDA is a group of lawyers please look into them and look up the past cases where parents have meet with SS on issues of diet choices (Vegan is a big on the SS likes to pick on)

Remember the SS ( or whatever title they have Child protective services, social services, etc a rose by any other name....)
CAN NOT enter your home w/o the police & a valid search warrant. DO NOT Allow entry w/o one for their job is to obtain information and evidence that supports the welfare of the child. (anything you say can be held against you..yadayada...)
I do not know the state laws thats where HSLDA comes in if SS came to my door I just give them my lawyers number. (or find another org of the like or lawyer)

With this all said we need exposure ,the correct kind that doesn't pose RAW as the fountain of youth snake oil, or fad diet, or event cult.

It all comes down to people are going to judge, just have you glutes covered.

[Essensual]

...have your glutes covered. Excellent advice in ANY situation.

Rawkinlocs,

I think that is a wonderful turn of events. I believe it was your willingness to remain calm, be prepared and wait for the "open door" to speak which facilitated this happy ending. I think this is the way to present the Raw lifestyle to anyone. Don't waste time and words arguing. Just live it, and let them see the results held up against what the rest of the nation is doing. That will quell a lot of arguements. You were even able to provide her with help for her loved one. How can anyone resist that? The coup d' etat was her desire to be prepared for YOUR next visit. How welcoming! Thank you for sharing the follow-up. My kids aren't raw (yet) but I was fuming with you AS A MOTHER!

[blessed]

Hi,
I believe that you may have defused the situation by remaining calm and that is what you must do if you are approached by SS but also I had talked with a gentleman who worked for the Child Protection Services which I call "Can I get a promotion out of taking this child Services. I asked that very question, Do you all need a warrant to come into my home, he told me that they do not need on. The police do but they do not. I feel they should have to get one and you can request that they do but they do not have to have one to enter your home or to search it.
As far as homeschooling is I think that that is a great idea, in the past I have suggested that the parents remove the children from the school in order not to be reported.
It is sad that we have to take such steps but it is necessary, we can no longer act as though children being taken away is not happening.
Shirley

[Dawn39]

Shirley,
This comes up all the time, I read about it all the time. One of my fears thats why i take my kids out all the time & the whole town knows we homeschool. Even my city council, Police dept etc. (small town) .

If the Child is in Danger, they can remove them with a police officer. SS has been getting away with stuff they should not. I don't want to fill the thread here is an example.

http://www.hslda.org/docs/news/hslda/200505/200505251.asp

scroll through lots of examples.

If they do not have a warrant they can't come in, let them see your kids at the door hand them the lawyers number. (oh they'll come back and HSLDA will have a represenative there for you)

But enough with that, I'm not anti SS, they're here for good reasons. I worked in the medical field and by law reported signs of child , spouse abuse, and even geriatric abuse.

I'm not a lawyer , nor is the SS person do not wish to debate the law I have rights, Thats why I have lawyers to protect the lifestyle I choose.

I wish you the best.

[Rawkinlocs]

Thanks for all the info Blessed and Dawn!

I think it's a total shame that parents can have a total deviant living at home who does all sorts of things and skips class/school, yet no one visit their homes to take them away. But decide to homeschool you're children and you're faced with issues.

A parent can have a child at home feeding them McDonalds and chips and cookies with fried chicken and instant mashed potatoes and the child be asthmatic, diabetic and extremely overweight and no one says anything but maybe, "put the child on a diet". But let them find out you're feeding your kids a diet exclusively of raw vegan foods, fruits, veggies, nut milks, etc. and they want to take them away for neglect :rolleyes:

Our system is totally screwed and going out the world ____ first when it comes to some things.

[Arky]

How very sad but true... :(


J.

[Sharon in Colorado]

HSLDA informed us that if we every got a house call from an official, the suggestion was to tell them they are not welcome in the house but the door is unlocked. And have a video camera ready. That way they are essentially breaking and entering. It helps to be prepared.

[ReneeSC]

***A parent can have a child at home feeding them McDonalds and chips and cookies with fried chicken and instant mashed potatoes and the child be asthmatic, diabetic and extremely overweight and no one says anything but maybe, "put the child on a diet". But let them find out you're feeding your kids a diet exclusively of raw vegan foods, fruits, veggies, nut milks, etc. and they want to take them away for neglect :rolleyes:****

As a person whose been through homeschooling for a long time - been on up and down diets - and been reported to SS ...

Let me just say.... that you need to make sure you do the things suggested here so far ( with records, etc ), and if you really feel you're in danger or potential danger of an SS report, I'd g'head and join HSLDA. HSLDA wouldn't tell you NOT to feed your children true nutrition. They may ( some ) question amongst themselves about the protein issue ( as many do ), but other than that, they'd not care and would back you up.
They're defending people with immunization issues, so.. I'd not worry about anything with them.
Make sure that you have the knowledge of your state laws and statutes ( and these are different things - enforceable in different ways ) down pat, and that you're in compliance to the best of your ability.

As far as homeschooling and dietary things in general - You D'Momma!

I remember when I first began homeschooling - oh.. YEARS ago, and I met with my first wholefoods, no immunization, attatchment parent, homebirthing etc. person.
Wow, was I floored. What a different life that was to watch. I'd never HEARD of that stuff before, and I was no hermit.
It took me a while before I began to understand and be unbrainwashed ( cuz that's what I was ! )
Because I realize how brainwashed "I" was, it was easier for me to forgive people who said or did things against us because I remember what it felt like when I didn't understand either.

I kept hearing over and over again .."Wait a second! We're eating WELL, and you're eating junk..and you're trying to tell me that I'm crazy? WAKE UP!!"

I did. :)


Remember, Saul the Persecutor thought he was doing "God's Will " before he became Paul the Apostle.

Yes, leapards can change. THANK GOD!