Mushrooms - most not to be eaten raw

[Mary Kay]

This man is truly an expert, and according to him, many mushrooms should not be eaten raw. Especially button and portabellas due to carcinogenic agaratines. He also says the lining of your stomach cannot digest them unless they're cooked. Would love other scientific facts.

http://www.dhlovelife.com/v2/show/archive/?wk=24

Mary Kay

[Starry_Saskia]

Growing up my mother always told me mushrooms were dead foods. She would rarely eat them.

I don't know why. I've alway eaten them raw, and lots of them.

[Aleesha Sattva]

I eat mushrooms and they never upset my tummy. So I'm not going to stop anytime soon.

[Mary Kay]

Aleesha,

Pls watch the video.... just because something doesn't upset your tummy, doesn't mean it's digestible OR that it doesn't cause tumors to grow. He claims that eating a raw button mushroom or portabella is akin to smoking cigarettes due to the carcinogens absorbed.

I had heard Dr. Weil say not to eat mushrooms raw YEARS ago, but discounted it because he's not a raw foodie etc......

I'm kind of looking for the science behind it, not just how it makes me feel. They don't bother me raw either!

Mary Kay

[Factoid]

Mary Kay: That is so interesting! Whenever I ate button mushrooms raw I would get a bit of an upset stomach - gas etc. I haven't had this with other raw food so far. I always thought that it was the bacteria on the mushrooms that hadn't been removed from washing or skinning them - apparently you aren't supposed to wash them, just brush off dirt or remove the top layer of the cap as that is where most nutrients are.
I think I'll sub other types of mushrooms for button and portobello if I eat them raw for now...

[strangedahlia]

With my love for the taste of mushrooms (and I love growing and cultivating them too!) I'll say it's a shame, but I've heard many times already that raw mushrooms shouldn't be consumed as well.

The problem is that mushrooms in nature serve to decompose and transform the soil and detritus, and often protect themselves by producing toxic compounds.

The good news, from my own studies and research, is that many of those compounds will transform and break upon drying, either in full sun or in a dehydrator.

I'd be very interested to learn more on this, but so far, without being an expert, it seems that dehydrating them and using them as seasoning, chips and bites or in soups is the way to go.

Long live the mushies!

[spicyfull]

Very Interesting.......Thanks for Sharing.

[Revvell]

One might call Daniel Vitalis an "expert" as well and he totally uses mushrooms in various capacities and extols their healing properties.

Personally, they taste and smell like dirt so, I don't bother.

[Raw Joy]

I used to love mushrooms. A couple of years ago, I started to put some on my salad and all of a sudden - yuck. Couldn't stand the sight, smell or taste of them. I've had them very few times since.

Still don't know why. It's like all of sudden my body just said no.

[coco]

white button mushrooms are a terrific vegan source of vit d. set in the sun for 15 minutes they develop an enormous amount of it actually, you'd only need to eat a few each week to meet your vit d needs, even in winter.

[SweetTangerine]

Interesting. I few years ago while cooked vegan I tried really hard to like mushrooms and finally got to the point where I could eat them finely chopped in something. Something about the texture always grossed me out. Eating them raw makes me feel nauseous and foggy. I try to avoid them.

[Mary Kay]

I agree that IMO, with what little I know about Daniel Vitalis, he IS an expert. I'd like to hear the science behind what he says, because he is raw foodie. I know he does wild foraging and is an expert in that area, but wonder what he thinks about portabellas/buttons etc - ones that are commercially grown. .

And for the poster who said you can dehydrate them---well, and for all of you, PLS WATCH THE VIDEO before you comment! He - Paul S, in the video, also says that you need a temp of 415 to destroy the carcinogens.

Hmmmm.

I don't eat mushrooms that much, but lately have been kind of having a taste for them!! Had some portabellas in the fridge, and ended up cooking them after viewing the video.....Sigh....

Mary Kay

[ReneeH]

I just made Alissa's Marinated Portabella's...they taste GREAT to me!!! :)

[RawKnitster]

Every couple weeks I eat button or portobella mushrooms that have been marinated or stuffed and dehydrated. (I don't eat the stems and I usually scrape the gills off the portobella.)

I don't have any scientific evidence to the contrary, but I still won't be eliminating mushrooms from my raw diet. Even if he is right (which I seriously doubt)... does it really matter...? I've already eliminated more carcinogens from my diet that 99% of the population. Suppose he is right and I am getting carcinogens from mushrooms.... I'm thinking I don't eat them often and I get enough natural sources of beta-carotene and other vitamins and minerals to protect me.

:)

[Raw Angel Mom]

As per China Study, it is the animal protein especially casein from milk that will fertilize the cancer in you if any. It is like the water and the sun to make a seed grow. The toxic may go in your body and wait as a seed inside the dirt, but if you eat plenty of fresh fruit/vegetables that are rich in anti-oxidant, it will neutralise the carcinogen.

It is good to know about the mushroom, thank you for the information. I love mushroom but i cut them down dramatically after reading the rainbow cuisine from Dr. Gabriel Cousens. I was considering to include them in my diet again mainly because of the vitamin D now your post is making me rethink about it.

Thank you again for the information.

[joliepolie]

here is a bit more info on the topic..I personally do not eat them raw..but for those who do this is from the Mycena News put out by the Mycological Society of San Francisco. It's a PDF..scroll down to page 4 for the article by David Campbell.

http://www.mssf.org/mycena-news/pdf/0811mn.pdf

[Factoid]

Very helpful

[SevenKindsOfCookie]

Thanks for the link joliepolie, it was a very interesting article.

I really don't know which approach to take.
On one hand, it seems like cooking the mushrooms will make them overall healthier to consume. And I have to remind myself that raw food is not an ethical thing, it's about my own health and if cooking something is healthier for me then why eat it raw?

On the other hand, if mushrooms aren't healthy for me in its natural form, then perhaps it's not such a good food for me in any form. Which is a shame since I like the taste and texture a lot.

[Factoid]

It is very difficult to define what natural is.. Is a high mortality rate in developing countries "natural" and should we just let it be as it has been in the past? For that matter mortality has improved all over the world, should we abolish hospitals as they definitely weren't around until relatively recently. Just an example, I hope this doesn't cause comments against modern drugs - that's not the point I'm making here. Don't think there were Vita Mixs, juicers and home dehydrators until recently either..
I think aiming for the most healthy is the best thing!:)

[joliepolie]

if you are concerned about the risks enough to eliminate them..I have found you can sub them out in alot of recipes.For those that enjoy the taste of them too much to give them up..I would most likely eat them in moderation and avoid the more suspect ones.I don't like the flavor of them raw so it has never been an issue for me.

[Mary Kay]

Thanks JoliePolie....and Rawknitster, lol at your statement that you already eat healthier than 99% of the population...you've got a point there - and that all the good stuff you eat could help neutralize anything "bad!"

JoliePolie, that article did have a couple points OTHER than the poisons being neutralized, that I kind of discounted---er sort of. Like when Campbell says that if the cell walls are not broken, you do not get all the nutrients, as they're not as digestible. although this does make sense, stick'em in a Vita-Mix and the cell walls will be broken. This was also Dr. Weil's argument, years ago why yellow veggies - carrots, squashes should be cooked, because all the carotenoids were't available.....I discount that because again, by juicing or throwing in the high-speed blender they are broken down. Funny, but just the other night at a raw food potluck, there was a mushroom sauce/gravy where the mushrooms were pulverized in the blender, and it was really good. Reminded a couple of us of cream of mushroom soup!

Campbell also states that they should be cooked to avoid nematodes etc. Again, although a valid point, especially since mushrooms can grow in poop, this is not always a good reason to not eat something raw....take the whole pasteurized almond B.S. here in the U.S. for example....

Geez, I'm so glad I started this discussion!

Raw Angel Mom, I've never read .."Rainbow Cuisine." What does Dr. Gabriel Cousens say about them specifically? Just curious.

I assume that many natural hygienists are "against" mushrooms? And someone like Dr Robert Young (Ph Miracle), doesn't want to add a fungus to our bodies - he also doesn't do apple cider vinegar, but I do.......

I hope this discussion keeps going and people have even more to add. If anyone talks to Daniel Vitalis, etc, let us know!

JoliePolie, that article was also interesting to me for another reason: It shows how many people are "into" things. Like there's a society for mushrooms......Cool.

Thanks again for all the responses, everyone. At this point, I think I am going to cook them, until I hear other arguments for eating them raw, but that's just me.

Mary Kay.

[Raw Angel Mom]

Raw Angel Mom, I've never read .."Rainbow Cuisine." What does Dr. Gabriel Cousens say about them specifically? Just curious.


His book is to turn off our natural compost so we stop aging. Mushroom are fungus, i cannot remember exactly what he wrote but he doesn't eat them anymore even if he used to love them. Mushroom seem to degrade your youth.

Sadely if we cook any food above 125°F not only the enzyme are destroyed but so is Vitamine A, D, E and K. So if we cannot eat the mushroom raw, what's the point to consume them. I do feel thought that someone who eat a huge quantity of food containing anti-oxydant, it will neutralize the toxic but this come to a personal decision. I will probably still eat mushroom occasionally but in moderation. I haven't eat any for quite a long time.

[Factoid]

This might be a super duper stoopid question but: what are the main reasons for avoiding cooking things? - becaused it destroys nutrients, maybe some might say it's not natural. Is there anything else eg anything harmful produced or is it just what is destroyed?
Thank-you :o

[lucky lemons]

This is a great post - thanks for the info Mary Kay :)

My bf and I adore mushrooms and eat them quite often marinated or just raw. I especially love portobellos and criminis, but I will be cutting back after reading this info. I will not completely cut them out of my diet (I mean, even Alissa has quite a few raw mushroom recipes in her book - I love her mushroom gravy!) but will definitely not be buying them as much now that I know about the carcinogenic properties.

[Mary Kay]

Factoid,

You're so silly, I don't think it's a stupid question at all.

Well, it seems that humans have been cooking things for some 500,000 yrs - at least according to one Paleo-diet guy (someone pls correct me, if I'm wrong), so to me, it seems "natural" to cook some things. That being said, I'm 90 - 95% raw and do eat some meat, half of which is cooked.

Aside from nutrients being destroyed, some bad things are also produced ---like acrylamides, when you cook dry grains at high heat, then there's the amines --HCA's and P---somethings produced when you chargoal grill meats.
Some say that only 50% of proteins in meat are available when they're cooked....

One other thing I can think of was that someone a long time ago did a study on why humans produced...oh geez, these names ---leukotrines, leukocytes? something like that===an immuno-response /inflammatory? when people eat cooked food. he found that if you ate a meal that was at least 50% raw, and you ate the raw part first, that your body then did not produce these - l's - whatever they are's....LOL Sorry, no time to look up the scientific names.


And of course, like you mentioned, the nutrients lost.
*******


Mary Kay

[Riiiya]

This info on mushroom doesn't surprise me! I remember reading in Dr Gabriel Cousen's books that they are mucus-forming or toxic.. also remember David Wolfe talking about store bought mushrooms being all moldy and rather not eaten..

[Veganforlife]

Factoid,

You're so silly, I don't think it's a stupid question at all.

Well, it seems that humans have been cooking things for some 500,000 yrs - at least according to one Paleo-diet guy (someone pls correct me, if I'm wrong), so to me, it seems "natural" to cook some things. That being said, I'm 90 - 95% raw and do eat some meat, half of which is cooked.

Aside from nutrients being destroyed, some bad things are also produced ---like acrylamides, when you cook dry grains at high heat, then there's the amines --HCA's and P---somethings produced when you chargoal grill meats.
Some say that only 50% of proteins in meat are available when they're cooked....

One other thing I can think of was that someone a long time ago did a study on why humans produced...oh geez, these names ---leukotrines, leukocytes? something like that===an immuno-response /inflammatory? when people eat cooked food. he found that if you ate a meal that was at least 50% raw, and you ate the raw part first, that your body then did not produce these - l's - whatever they are's....LOL Sorry, no time to look up the scientific names.


And of course, like you mentioned, the nutrients lost.
*******


Mary Kay

Please do NOT bad-mouth or bash Alissa. This is her forum she provides us for free!

[Factoid]

Mary Kay: Thanks for taking the time to clarify. I had heard that stuff about meat which doesn't affect me, but the inf about eating raw food then cooked in a 50/50 raw/ cooked meal was very interesting. I will def try this when travelling..Mango dessert first, ending with a curry sounds fine with me ;)

Veganforlife: don't think there was any disrespect. This forum is great! Thank-you for moderating

[Mary Kay]

Veganforlife.....I never meant any disrespect for Alissa and did not bad mouth or bash her in any way......Disagreeeing with or pointing out an error is not necessarily "bashing."

By even merely starting this topic, it's almost "disagreeing" with Alissa, because she includes some raw mushroom recipes. Do you think she would mind? I don't think so, and I certainly hope not!

Knowledge is power, and just last week without knowledge, I ate something raw that I shouldn't've and puked my guts out!!! I ate raw elderberries, and I did research them somewhat before doing so, and read they were best not eaten raw, but never came across the "can cause nausea/vomiting" until after I vomited and researched WAY more thoroughly.

And that is why I started this thread: many of us do eat raw things without knowing some of the science behind them. I wanted to hear more about the science behind them, and others have pointed out some other interesting articles.

So anyways.....back on the mushroom topic: Now that I saw that video, I've been "Jonesing" for them!!! Meanwhile, I've gone for months without them. Figures. I did cook some the other night, and they were delicious. I know that would have tasted equally delicious marinated and raw though........sigh.

XOXOXO,

Mary Kay

[Mary Kay]

Factoid,

Many do feel that you should always eat fruit separately, and generally at least, oh 1/2 hr before a meal, as fruit digests rapidly, and if combined with other food, will ferment, so you'd want to eat that pre-meal anyway.....

What I was referring to was salads, especially: I used to always like to eat a salad last! Now my meals contain very few cooked things, but when they do, I force myself to eat the raw stuff/salad first.

Mary Kay

[annavon]

Interesting thread and timely for me. I am working on getting rid of candida and one of the food that is not allowed is mushrooms. I had also read Gabriel Cousens comments about mushrooms. I love button mushrooms raw, but the portabellas make me feel a little off when eaten raw. They never bothered me when cooked.

[Factoid]

Mary Kay: Thanks for the clarification. I guess this means that a lot of these smoothies with fruit and then greens added are not the best.. What about mixing berries with fruit - like strawberry and banana?
topic hijack over

[Aleesha Sattva]

here is a bit more info on the topic..I personally do not eat them raw..but for those who do this is from the Mycena News put out by the Mycological Society of San Francisco. It's a PDF..scroll down to page 4 for the article by David Campbell.

http://www.mssf.org/mycena-news/pdf/0811mn.pdf

A quote from this article: "In fact,
the key to safe consumption of any and all mushrooms, aside
from proper ID and sufficient cooking, is moderation."

I think we all need to remember here that eating a few mushrooms here and there is not going to kill us. AND there are no raw police, if you don't want to eat them then don't.


Mary Kay: Thanks for the clarification. I guess this means that a lot of these smoothies with fruit and then greens added are not the best.. What about mixing berries with fruit - like strawberry and banana?
topic hijack over

greens can be eaten with fruit.

i think it's important to remember the over-all health of our bodies here. we eat raw, therefore our bodies are better equipped to handle anything thrown its way. a mushroom here, a mushroom there... i'm certainly not going to worry about it.

IF i ate a pound or two of mushrooms every day as a staple... then i'd be concerned.

[joliepolie]

ultimately what anyone chooses to eat raw is obviously their choice..but I for one appreciate ALL info that can be given to me about raw foods so I can make informed decisions about my diet.Thank you to everyone that has contributed to this thread!!!

[Mary Kay]

Joliepolie, nicely said..."informed decisions..." I agree.

Factoid, some feel that greens go with just about everything, but that vegetables should be separate from fruit. Many feel that green smoothies that combine the fruit and greens are perfectly fine.

Please google "proper food combining charts."

Also, as it sounds like you're a newbie, Alissa's book "Living on Live Food" contains food combining charts and lots of other beginner info. She does not talk about green smoothies very much, but there is a ton of info on the net about them. I feel this book ,at $29.95 is the best "bang for your buck" for a beginner, and is a good investment. It's 550 pages! Geez, many folks online sell only a handful of recipes for that much $$. No doubt, this is one of the things that has helped her popularity.

For many, green smoothies are a staple - as a way to get as many greens into your diet as easily and quickly as possible.
*********

Back to the mushrooms: I feel that someone like Dr. Cousens is "saintly" and just don't know that I aspire to be that much of a "saint." LOL

Nevertheless, I appreciate what he and others with a scientific/longterm background have to say...and again want to also make informed decisions.

I'll quit blabbing now, and maybe someone will add more to the mushroom/fungi talk. LOL

Mary Kay

[Factoid]

Mary Kay: Thanks for the information. I've been googling food combining and have come up with lots of information. I have no education in food science/ microbiology so rigorous examination of what is what is more of a challenge for me.
It seems a strawberry and banana smoothie is not recommended as the best combination!
Great that leafy greens can combine with pretty much anything.

I always want to try to find out what is best and aim to do that. If I can't achieve it all the time that's ok but I want to aim for it. Can't think of wanting to do anything else.

[Mary Kay]

Factoid,

Sounds like a good plan. I have actually known about proper food combining since around 1987!!!! I read about it in the Balch's "Prescription for Nutritional Healing" which I purchased about that time, but read arguments against it, that said "oh, your body can compensate when you combine lots of foods" etc. I also believed our body could compensate etc....Except for eating fruit separately, I didn't follow it.......UNTIL I went on a couple raw juice fasts beginning three or four yrs ago and could feel the improper food combining when I began eating again. (LOL, It took me over 20 yrs ---guess I'm a pretty slow learner.....)

You'd also think that I would have believed it when oh, 12 or 13 yrs ago, I did a complete digestive stool analysis and found I was VERY low in digestive enzymes etc.....Still didn't.....LOL.....

My point is, I now believe it. And yes, for those occasions when humans have a feast (potlucks for example, holidays etc) where there's feasting going on, then yes, your body can compensate. But do it all the time, and it's hard on your body.

When I was on my raw juice fasts, I could literally get 1 to 1 1/2 hrs less of sleep per night!!! That's how much energy digestion uses!

So that is why when someone says "raw mushrooms are indigestible," I now perk up and take note!

Well, HTH....

Mary kay

[amanitarita]

A primary reason to cook mushrooms before eating is to break down their indigestible components. Not only do mushrooms contain chitin (like the exoskeleton of an insect) but they also contain a unique and extremely stable sugar or carbohydrate called trehalose. To break down raw trehalose, you must have the enzyme trehalase. Unfortunately, many of us humans don't. So a way to help with the digestibility of this mushroom sugar is to cook the mushroom. Using a marinade is also a way to "cook" your mushrooms, and why eating marinated mushrooms is not a problem for most people.

The fear of getting worms (nematodes) from eating raw mushrooms is somewhat of a red herring...it was the cow pie that those psilocybe mushrooms were collected from that may have been the problem, not the mushrooms themselves. Not too many mushrooms are collected for the table directly from cow pies; cultivated mushrooms use sterilized manure. Or those boys could have picked up an infection from somewhere else entirely, even through their bare feet, or from infected seafood. Nematode eggs are prevalent throughout our environment, and are produced by all sorts of mammals: dogs, cats, racoons, cows, etc., etc. They are found in soils everywhere, so be sure and wash anything you put into your mouth, especially if it is uncooked!

Pureeing fresh raw or powdering dried mushrooms also helps to break down the indigestible bits. And individual sensitivities may vary, too. Button mushrooms are just fine to eat if you cook (or marinate) them first; hydrazines are driven off by heat and cooking. But of course, not so useful for a raw foodie...

Keep seeking knowledge.

Debbie Viess
Bay Area Mycological Society
www.bayareamushrooms.org

[coco]

Wow, thanks Debbie. What an interesting and informative post. Wherever did you learn these particulars about mushrooms? I want to go to whatever classes you're attending! Awsome.

[Humanist]

I think mushrooms are slimy and disgusting, but some of them are said to have amazing healing properties. Maitake mushrooms are claimed to inhibit, and even cure, cancers. The extracts are made by boiling them. How can something be healing after being boiled?

[freshlight]

anything can become "healing" as long as there is money involved

[Tirza]

I think mushrooms are slimy and disgusting, but some of them are said to have amazing healing properties. Maitake mushrooms are claimed to inhibit, and even cure, cancers. The extracts are made by boiling them. How can something be healing after being boiled?

This is blowing me away. I have been reading about mushrooms being good for cancer and now you are saying that they cause it?

Okay, I belatedly just went and watched the video. He extols mushrooms except buttons and portobellos, the ones we see the most in stores, besides being the most affordable. It made my mouth water, watching him frying up that pan of 5 varieties. But I don't want to cook, and I have cancer. What then?

[Aleesha Sattva]

don't wanna cook and have cancer...

fast on green juices for 92 days that's what!

[Mary Kay]

LOL Tirza,

I was Jonesing for some shrooms after seeing him cook them up also!

And Debbie, thanks for dropping in here. So are you saying that marinating them will help in most cases? And marinating them in what?

Thanks again,

Mary Kay

[Humanist]

This is blowing me away. I have been reading about mushrooms being good for cancer and now you are saying that they cause it?


I did NOT say that mushrooms cause cancer.

[coco]

when i marinate things it's usually in a combination of olive oil, a tamari like substance or sea salt, lemon, and herbs of your choosing. that "cooks" or softens veggies to change their texture to more like cooked. it accomplishes that be breaking down cell walls but without heat. marinated mushrooms are very much like cooked i find, the "slimy" texture that people who don't like them have an aversion to. they are sort of spongy when raw, not slimy at all.

[Tirza]

I did NOT say that mushrooms cause cancer.

No, don't get me wrong - I didn't think you did say that. I heard him saying on the video that raw button and portobellos have carcinogens. His solution is to cook them. But even that worries me. Also, do we know that marinating will have the same effect as cooking to kill or neutralize those carcinogens? How do we know?

[Humanist]

I heard him saying on the video that raw button and portobellos have carcinogens. His solution is to cook them. But even that worries me. Also, do we know that marinating will have the same effect as cooking to kill or neutralize those carcinogens? How do we know?

If something contains carcinogens, don't eat it.

[coco]

so many things contain carcinogens. the key is to have a minimum, you can't really avoid them all nor should you bother IMO. keeping the body strong and nourished enough to keep itself in healthy balance is the thing to do and many of the foods that have what can be considered negative properties are also good for the body in many ways. it's all about balance. getting wrapped up in oxalics in spinach, cruciferous veggies not being perfect, onions and garlic being irritants, whether marinating mushrooms neutralizes unwanted properties as thoroughly as cooking does... i think it's taking things too far. paranoia never results in anything good, neither does trying to be a perfectionist or otherwise stressing yourself out.
that said, having specific health issues is one time when being extra careful can be of benefit but when one is relatively healthy... i say go with your gut :)

[holistica]

This man is truly an expert, and according to him, many mushrooms should not be eaten raw. Especially button and portabellas due to carcinogenic agaratines. He also says the lining of your stomach cannot digest them unless they're cooked. Would love other scientific facts.

http://www.dhlovelife.com/v2/show/archive/?wk=24

Mary Kay

In his book Rainbow Green Live Food Cuisine (http://www.amazon.com/Rainbow-Live-Food-Cuisine-Gabriel-Cousens/dp/1556434650), Cousens says that mushrooms can cause all kinds of problems in the body when eaten cooked or raw... His book is a very good read, very scientific, lots of good analogies...

I, however, love my mushrooms, and would have a hard time giving them up. I've eaten button and portabella mushrooms raw quite often and never had trouble. I guess you could pull them from your diet if they're not a main staple for you anyway... But if you eat them without problems, why say goodbye?

[jane b]

I love mushrooms so much, my family used to kid me about being half Hobbit. I would eat them raw, stuffed, broiled, baked, and in soup. Even now, one on my first "raw" cooking attempts was stuffed mushrooms run through the dehydrator for as long as I could stand smelling them before eating them all up.

By coincidence, I'm going to a workshop this weekend on how to grow mushrooms at home. Portabella and buttons are about the easiest to ship, so that's why they're the ones available in stores.

The video is enlightening, and if I have to eat them cooked, then so be it. I don't have to be 100 percent raw, and I'd much rather have a tasty portabello than a Fatburger any old time.

jane b

[Humanist]

In investigating claims that maitake mushrooms boost the immune system, I am not finding anything definite on how they do that. Only testimonials and theories. One theory says that the beta-glutens in mushrooms dock on macrophages, thus activating them. Maybe, but I am wondering if there is something toxic in mushrooms that provokes the immune system to action—AGAINST the mushrooms.

[Mary Kay]

Humanist,

Interesting point. Maybe it's something like echinacea, where your body thinks it's something bad, so it builds up the immune system to attack it, thereby strengthening you.

Mary Kay

[Futura Girl]

I used to love mushrooms. A couple of years ago, I started to put some on my salad and all of a sudden - yuck. Couldn't stand the sight, smell or taste of them. I've had them very few times since.

Still don't know why. It's like all of sudden my body just said no.

I had the same reaction. Used to have them all the time as a vegetarian, but after going raw I don't have the desire for them anymore, cooked OR uncooked... to the point of where they totally turn me off.

I think there are many foods in nature that are there to serve as medicinal aids and NOT as our daily bread so to speak. IMHO mushroom are one such food. After all - they are FUNGUS. Who needs to digest extra fungus in their bodies? Use them medicinally, but do not eat them lightly.

[Mary Kay]

Interesting point, Futura Girl. Some feel that garlic and onions are "medicinal" and that once your body becomes clean, they become irritants. I still like occasional garlic, onions and mushrooms.....LOL, altogether in the D sounds good, right about now.....

Mary Kay

[Green_Woman]

Some feel that garlic and onions are "medicinal" and that once your body becomes clean, they become irritants.

Maybe that's why I can't seem to eat garlic or onions without having major tummy aches and headaches and body odor!!!

The same with eating raw mushrooms... everytime I chow down on a portabello, I'm sick the next hour.

[Mary Kay]

So Green Woman, did you USED to like them, and be able to eat them?

Does this sound just about right to you?

Just curious.

Mary Kay

[kaybee]

hey i have two questions:

1. coco--you mentioned that if you put the mushrooms out to absorb the sun, the would absorb vitamin D... I knew that this was true of shitake's but i hadnt heard of it being the case with any others, so im just curious. also, the shitakes have to be put in the sun gills-up, as far as I was aware, and the button mushrooms here usually are "closed" i.e. no gills visible.... i guess portabellas have them visible though... just wondering about more info in this... ALSO, if you live somewhere where the suns rays arent at the right angle to give vit D to humans during the winter, do the shrooms somehow still absorb it? would be very interesting.

2. Mary Kay noted that the man's article said that mushrooms had to be heated to 415 degrees to neutralize the carcinogens...well, that just makes me wonder, even for people cooking their food, how many people would cook them at that high a temperature anyway!! soups and stews probably wouldnt get that hot and frying or baking would create carcinogens! so cooking wouldnt really seem to be effective to rid of carcinogens anyway! either becasue it doesnt reach a high enough temp or because new carcinogens are created by the cooking process!

kaybee

[Mary Kay]

Kaybee,

I was wondering the same thing about the 415 degrees myself.

And as I recall, I came across an article somewhere that said you had to leave the shrooms in the sun for a good amt of time --not just 15 minutes or so - days? maybe? ....Sorry no time to look up now,,,Will try later though....Dashing off to a homeschooling event.

Mary Kay

[kaybee]

yeah dont know but i only knew it was shitakes, didnt know about any others...but dude, the 415 degrees thing, seriously, even if you make a stew or soup it only gets to boiling, right? and even a frying pan probly doesnt get things to 450 degrees! and even ovens you usually cook at 350 or 400. the oven only goes UP to 425...plus i think cooking dry stuff creates carcinogens... so it seems like even if peopel WERE cooking they probly wouldnt be getting it up to 415!


hmmm. re the vit d excerpt from http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12370708/

The ongoing work so far has found that a single serving of white button mushrooms — the most commonly sold mushroom — will contain 869 percent the daily value of vitamin D once exposed to just five minutes of UV light after being harvested. If confirmed, that would be more than what's in two tablespoons of cod liver oil, one of the richest — and most detested — natural sources of the vitamin, according to the National Institutes of Health.

but AGAIN, i wonder if they absorb it only if the sun is at the right angle. like, my understanding is that where i live right now (ireland) even if i spend time out in the sun, its at the wrong angle for me to be able to get vitamin d from it; i.e. its not intense enough. curious.

[Honchcrow]

This man is truly an expert, and according to him, many mushrooms should not be eaten raw. Especially button and portabellas due to carcinogenic agaratines. He also says the lining of your stomach cannot digest them unless they're cooked. Would love other scientific facts.

http://www.dhlovelife.com/v2/show/archive/?wk=24

Mary Kay

Shitake, oyster and maitake mushrooms are what I'm eating. I steam some as part of my 10 percent cooked. I'm comfy. :)

Honchcrow

[Dekejis]

I wonder how this applies to medicinal mushrooms, as many are purported to stimulate the immune system and help suppress tumor growth, according to chinese medicine.

Still kindof a shame, since they're so tasty, but it does make sense.

[kaybee]

DW said that you actually HAVE to cook some of the medicinals for quite some time in order to get the medicinal stuff to come out of the cells so that your body can use it... :/

[Diana Cda]

Well, it seems that humans have been cooking things for some 500,000 yrs - at least according to one Paleo-diet guy (someone pls correct me, if I'm wrong), so to me, it seems "natural" to cook some things. That being said, I'm 90 - 95% raw and do eat some meat, half of which is cooked.I missed this discussion, I have to add to it ... <g>

At the end of the mesozoic (I believe) when the stresses and conditions forced us, we came out of the trees and started to compete with ground dwelling carnivores. We figured out how to cook and preserve food we couldn't naturally eat otherwise - things like meat. With no refrigeration or other modern methods of preserving, it was either adapt to a rather unnatural diet for us, or perish! And the old and modern cooked diet _is_ unnatural. A very, and I mean _very_, superficial examination of our physiology demonstrates this very clearly.

I'm going from information I read years ago, as long as 20 or more, but all this stuck in my head. However, even though cooking may de-aminize amino acides and dextrinize starches (again, my memory may be faulty, but along those lines) and simple chains become coagulated through heat, etc., etc., etc., it does make it _mechanically_ easier to eat and meant we had a different food source other than the diminishing resources we'd been used to for millenia. Imagine trying to chew through meat with our decidely un-carnivorous-like teeth as compared to a carnivore's, and think on how cooking makes cutting it easier with less sharp tools and you see the point.

Also, cooking destroys not just bacteria but deadens the food further by killing enzymes, etc., so there is less for organisms to eat so that this cooked food then has a longer "shelf life". Granted, no grocery or pantry shelves back then, but you get the point.

So, although raw vegan is 100% for me and all of us on the planet, there's no question that we, as a species, survived tremendous hardships because temporarily, before modern methods of being able to ship and preserve foods became possible, we got out of our biological niche and adopted eating habits that allowed us to prevail and survive a bad period.

However, the pendulum must swing back. We must go back to our natural raw vegan diet, which many of us are doing <g>.



My question is, and always has been, though ... are we frugivorous folivores or folivorous frugivores???



All these decades later and I _still_ don't know the answer. Nor have I ever managed to find someone who can answer that question for me ... <g>

[alisa21]

What I say is that everyone should follow their bodies. Personally, I can't tolerate too many mushrooms - too heavy.

Also: eat mushrooms that grow in the sun, not the shade! Research your mushrooms. I wouldn't eat store bought champignions.

[Sky Feather]

I just found this thread from a google search. I have been one year raw (90-95%) and today I ate for the 1st time raw mushrooms.
I add the photo of them, don't know which kind is (if anyone could help):
http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af334/Viperalus/raw vegan diet/DSC_4128-mushrooms.jpg

I pinched a couple of them and because they are so tasty, I stopped a little later after I had already consumed about three spoonfuls.
I have learned that whatever tastes great doesn't mean it is nutritious. And people learnt to judge food according to how tasty it is.

Now, about 6 hours later I still feel my stomach heavy and bloated, despite that I drunk liters of water. It was the 1st and the last time I tried raw mushrooms (I guess the same must be the case with the medicinal mushrooms as well).
But what should I do with the rest of them? Probably cook them (guess I'll have to use again the pan after many months of inactivity) :p

But, even if I cook them, they remain an unhealthy food, right? :-S

[Seahorse]

I missed this discussion, I have to add to it ... <g>

At the end of the mesozoic (I believe) when the stresses and conditions forced us, we came out of the trees and started to compete with ground dwelling carnivores. We figured out how to cook and preserve food we couldn't naturally eat otherwise - things like meat. With no refrigeration or other modern methods of preserving, it was either adapt to a rather unnatural diet for us, or perish! And the old and modern cooked diet _is_ unnatural. A very, and I mean _very_, superficial examination of our physiology demonstrates this very clearly.

I'm going from information I read years ago, as long as 20 or more, but all this stuck in my head. However, even though cooking may de-aminize amino acides and dextrinize starches (again, my memory may be faulty, but along those lines) and simple chains become coagulated through heat, etc., etc., etc., it does make it _mechanically_ easier to eat and meant we had a different food source other than the diminishing resources we'd been used to for millenia. Imagine trying to chew through meat with our decidely un-carnivorous-like teeth as compared to a carnivore's, and think on how cooking makes cutting it easier with less sharp tools and you see the point.

Also, cooking destroys not just bacteria but deadens the food further by killing enzymes, etc., so there is less for organisms to eat so that this cooked food then has a longer "shelf life". Granted, no grocery or pantry shelves back then, but you get the point.

So, although raw vegan is 100% for me and all of us on the planet, there's no question that we, as a species, survived tremendous hardships because temporarily, before modern methods of being able to ship and preserve foods became possible, we got out of our biological niche and adopted eating habits that allowed us to prevail and survive a bad period.

However, the pendulum must swing back. We must go back to our natural raw vegan diet, which many of us are doing <g>.



My question is, and always has been, though ... are we frugivorous folivores or folivorous frugivores???



All these decades later and I _still_ don't know the answer. Nor have I ever managed to find someone who can answer that question for me ... <g>

I absolutely concur with your entire post. We are primarily designed to be frugivores - we have colour vision, designed to draw us towards fruit, and are actively attracted to bright colours. Also we have more genes for digesting starch than other apes. Other apes show a preference to green-blue colours, human females are attracted to red/pink colours and human males to blue/green. I believe the attraction to blue/green is designed to draw other apes and human males to eat more leaves, as they need more protein. Other apes will need more protein than human males, as they are much stronger, hence the need to eat much more foliage and have less genes for digesting starch. Human females have less need for protein, and so are attracted the the brightest and most nutritious red/pink fruit.

[michigan roman]

" So, although raw vegan is 100% for me and all of us on the planet, there's no question that we, as a species, survived tremendous hardships because temporarily, before modern methods of being able to ship and preserve foods became possible, we got out of our biological niche and adopted eating habits that allowed us to prevail and survive a bad period.

However, the pendulum must swing back. We must go back to our natural raw vegan diet, which many of us are doing "

^ well put dianacda

[michigan roman]

on the what is best diet topic i dont see it as complicated

but one thing i say is fruit is a very seasonal item , and i thusly have never thought it made up
a huge part of our diet at any point in history . only huge during season fruit came in

rest of time it was the always around leaves n roots . while like squirrels we were seed gathers too

and obviously critter flesh as it was there 24/7/365

but the critter flesh part has no bearing on today for me

and i wont complicate it : ive quit critters for ethical reasons . and now see optimum diet as seeds / greens / sprouts / fruit / vegi's / water . its just a matter of finding the exact right plants for my type

[Mary Kay]

Thanks everyone for adding your wonderful insights and comments!

Sky Feather, I think you're going to have to research and decide for yourself! There are some who think any type of mushroom is bad for you, and others who believe in some healing properties within them like cancer fighting.....

As for me, I don't eat them very often, but when I do, am now cooking them. But that's just me.

I also am getting very mild discomfort/pain in my hand joints --sems to be slight arthritis, and am thinking I have to cut way back on all nightshades, if I do any at all for a while.....

Thanks again, everyone.

Mary Kay

[michigan roman]

wondering if anybodys read what negatives raw buttons cause beyond the claimed problem with cancer

[TangerineCat]

And the old and modern cooked diet _is_ unnatural. A very, and I mean _very_, superficial examination of our physiology demonstrates this very clearly.
<g>

I'd love it if you could expand on this! Examples of how our physiology demonstrates this, i mean :)

[SekhemNefer]

I think "this is bad" stuff is just political and yes, food can be a political and religious dogma for some people. Some people will claim that humans are naturally carnivores. For others natural vegans. Again for others fruitarians. And I am sure there are people who think that eating living plants is just as unethical as eating animals, because plants, fruits and vegetables are living things as well and murder is murder therefore, they would convince people that being vegan is unethical therefore we should only be aquatarian of just drinking water only, eat no food. Until...

Some gets a brain to realize that there is even living micro-organism living in water where the suggestion will come that we shouldn't even consume water for ethical reasons due to eating microscopic animals, or critters. Soon someone will suggest, and it has been done that dry fasting aka the starvation diet will always be the true spiritual "food" that man needs. And believe me, those type of people do exist. They are always on a perpetual fast and search for enlightenment where they equate eating food as some sort of "the worlds material, hedonistic sin that lowers and degrades your chakras.", or whatever stuff they want to come up with.

Point is about life is that someone will always find an excuse to be disgusted by something. And that disgust will bleed into their definition of what constitute the word "food", which will affect their eating choices.

Raw Veganism is the most strict diet than you can get in vegetarianism. It is stricter and less "flexible" than veganism itself. Yet, there are people in the raw food community that want to take raw veganism up 10 notches into obscurity of complaining and trying to convince people that they shouldn't eat this or that even further with all this stuff of "Such and so and so is an expert and wrote some damn book telling us that we shouldn't eat this. And humans were not meant to eat that."

Point is, if we truly were not meant to eat something then we would have, should have died from eating it. Yet the human populations have survived very well for millions of years eating the so called forbidden foods. No one has died and suffered ill health eating a non-poisonous mushroom raw or cooked, like people are dying from eating Cheetos and drinking Pepsi every day.

And all this fact about eye color coordination diet stuff which makes males want blue/green vegetables and make women want pink/red vegetables and fruits is all conjecture. Especially when the fact is is that most males are color blind unlike females in the first place. They couldn't tell you the difference between green from blue from purple to red to pink. Men just don't care about colors like women do. It can be for all kinds of reasons not even related to food, but just how men function mentally (logical) which is different from women (emotional).

Yes, apes are the only mammals that can see colors along with humans, but since so many human males are color blind, you can even go further to maybe say that the female body needs more of a vegetarian diet while the male body less so, due to the female body was created to for procreation and pregnancy therefore that body needs all kind of nutrients to help develop a fetus and feed a newborn, while the male body was not intended to help support another life at all. Just shoot sperm to whatever female that would catch it.

I would say that the female body desires fruits and vegetables and the male body wants more animal protein. Females, no matter what will crave their fruits and vegetables, while the average male would be happy eating steak and potatoes. Go on any date, or dinner function and the woman 9 times out of 10 will want a huge salad with a little piece of fish. The man can give a damn if he eats any vegetables at all. You just don't hear men say, "Man, I sure want a fruit salad." Or " I would love a big bowl of green leafy vegetables." That is mostly female talk.

Yeah, men will suffer from eating mostly a diet of all meat when they get old and start having all kinds of rectum problems. It is could be the reason why men die 10 years early than the average woman, since women craving fruits and vegetables gives them more anti-oxidants to outlive men, but until the age a man's life expires, you just don't hear them say that they crave vegetal foods. The mostly only eat it, because they have a mother, girlfriend or wife fixing them vegetables and fruits therefore they are "forced" to consume it. I mean, they didn't coin "The Bachelor Diet" for no reason. Single men, on their own just are not interested in any thing but high animal protein and starchy carbs. If they didn't have a woman in their life, they wouldn't eat a brussel sprout, a carrot, or make sure they get enough spinach in their diet on their own, unless you are dealing with an extreme health conscious man.

But hey, my belief system, which I base on my educational understanding is that humans are "flexitarians/semi-vegitarian" (a high plant based diet with very little supplemental meat) just like our nearest primate relatives.

Fact is, all natural, whole foods are good foods. Another fact is, some foods can be eaten more than others. I am sure most animals, like humans, have a certain food that they shouldn't eat all the time, because it will make them sick for whatever reason, mostly toxicity issue. That doesn't make a food necessarily bad where you should avoid it all of your life. It is just a fact that you should eat raw potatoes, or raw legumes every day unlike eating an apple or bell pepper every day. But if you want eat a raw potatoe, and half a cup of soaked raw beans once a month.

If there was truly a food you were not meant to eat, then you would die from it immediately. And the word for that is called a "poison".

And to a certain degree, we need to get off of monkey and ape topic as well. Yes, they are our nearest relative, but at the same time we can't use them to a certain extent to define the human eating pattern either. You can talk about apes and monkeys only eating leaves and shoots all you want, but realize the the fact that the only reason they are still eating leaves and shoots is because they many primates live in the same areas today as they lived centuries ago. Your gorilla is still in the forest of Africa today as he was centuries ago. So being in the darn forest, you have no choice but to eat leaves and shoots. Take that gorilla out of his cushy-familiar environment where there is no leaves and shoots and he will either do two things: 1. Be afraid to eat new foods and choose to die of starvation and will become extint (many animals are like this like the lemur primates that will refuse to try a new food source), or 2. might give hunting deer, squirrel and fish and give eating corn, rice and potatoes a try by being more flexible in his diet in the name of survival of species.

Humans, unlike primates, are survivors. Our eating habits is all about eating anything necessary in order to live, because unlike many primates, we choose to travel long distances in order to discover the world. Doing so is not about eating shoots, leaves, and nuts and berries, because that was not always available to use wherever we traveled. If you want to be very sentimental about food and talk about shoots, leaves and eating stalk, then you are talking about when "man" wasn't even technically a human yet, as a homo sapien. Shoots, leaves and nuts and berries? "Man" was technically a monkey-ape mutant. Humans are evolved beings. Shoot, leaf and nut eating primates are not evolved with the exception of chimpanzees which are a closet primate who eats a flexitarian diet of mostly vegetation with some small amounts of meat.

I am an evolved primate. The most advanced. Knowing that fact, my body can't handle the Post-modern chemicals we now call food, but at the same time my body is too far advanced for it to relate to some monkey in a tree and some ape in a forest that has lower intelligence than myself, because all they do is sit in a forest doing nothing profound all day and every day of their life until they die of pneumonia, because they are not smart enough to build a house yet so they sit outside for hours just waiting for the rain to stop.

We are humans not. We can't go back to the "ooga booga" caveman lifestyle with the shoots and leaves bit. I am sure once upon a time, everything on earth probably ate shoots and leaves, since all living things in existence today came from one living cell millions of years ago that split to millions of other cells to create plant life, animal life, human life, microorganism, the elements (water, fire, dirt, air), neutrons, protons, etc. Perhaps once upon a time, everything millions of years ago feed off of algea...but most things do not now. Can't keep referring to the past, when the past no longer applies. To a certain extent.

All food is good, unless it kills you. And even with all the healthy eating, you still going to die of some health issue. Healthy eating is all about not trying to die so soon. And that is as far as you can go, even with raw foods.