Never buying greens again - a challenge. Anybody in???

[T-Bird]

Hey all you happy growers!

So I had a great crop of arugula in my garden this year! Yay! Ate a lot and had plenty to share with family, friends and coworkers......cuz I spilled the seed packet during planting, lol!

Anyhoo - what TOTALLY amazed me is how easy and quick arugula is to grow - especially in regards to the price you pay at the market for organic arugula.....

And that gots me ta think......:confused:

:confused:



Greens are way too easy to grow to pay for them.....:p

I'm embarking on a personal challenge to position myself to never purchase greens again........

Eventually I will be composting all my own garden soils......
seed saving from the plants I grow.......
Converting a Junk room a 4x4 enclosed back porch into a mini greens container greenhouse to extend growing the cool weather crops. Biggest negative is it is east/north facing:(
And container growing in the kitchen in deep winter
possibly investing in grow lights.


Anyone interested in joining this challenge???

I'm sure hilarity and high jinx will ensue with mistakes aplenty and lessons learned on the road to step one of self sufficiency....was hoping some would be interested in riding this road with me....

In other news, I am doing another raised bed ot put in fall crops - load of greens - including red Russian kale, rainbow chard, and others.

Tomorrow will be another beet green smoothie from the t-bird plot. Come along and join the fun!!!!

[RawSar]

HI T-Bird!!

Lately I have been wanting to grow vegetables. I have never tried growing veggies though...
I've been looking up some info online and in some books but I get confused. Maybe you could help??

I can't dig up the yard so I would be looking to grow in pots.
I have organic soil and some pots.

Do you have any suggestions on what I could grow in pots as a beginner?

I definitely agree with you that it is much more cost effective to grow your own!!

I would love to do this challenge with you!!
If you could just give me a few pointers to get started I'm there!! :)

[green jeanie]

i am so in!!!

you are just the voice of solidarity i needed. this is getting stooopid.

i have some seeds for fall spinach and cabbage and some collard starts

i have to do this!!!

i feel in debt from all the take without the work and also it is just getting stooopid to keep myself going to the markets like this!!! :D

you rawk and i will come on board!

[EZ rider]

what TOTALLY amazed me is how easy and quick arugula is to grow - especially in regards to the price you pay at the market for organic arugula.....
I have just started an experiment growing organic wheatgrass in my kitchen so count me in.

[sport]

I am finally moving in to my new house today (the one that has outdoor space) so I will accept the challenge.

[T-Bird]

Awesome Guys, Thanks!

Rawsar, greens will be the easiest because we just want the leaves.....no worrying about fruit setting, polination, etc. The arugula was a piece of cake, honestly. beets - almost effortless. Cilantro came up fine, the parsley took a LONG while to start, had it in the ground likely 4-6 weeks, I'd given up on it, but I still kept watering. My spinach came up in like 4-5 days, but still very tiny.

so basically - you just need the pot, soil, seeds, and a sunny window. some patience and regular watering.

Do you have any seeds?

Congrats, Sport! And late summer is prime time to plant the fall crop of greens:)

I'm headed for my first fail as the arugula got too strong and I've decided to let it go to seed now. I thought I could keep harvesting it......

in the ground for immediate use, I've got about 1 smoothie each of beet greens and cilantro, that's it.

In the garden, I've got about 6 parsley between 1-3 inches high. some may not make it as I took them out of the raised bed and put into a large pot as I had over planted the bed and they were getting invaded from the pumpkin. A new crop of beets coming up. Likely at least 1 week away from being able to harvest 1 leaf per plant, maybe 2 weeks, they are currently only 1 inch high at best.

On the window sill, I've got 4 spinach seedlings, 8 lettuce seedlings, 4 beetberry seedlings, and 1 chrysanthemum seedling just peeked out this am. These are very slow growing due to only about 3 hours sun max on my windowsill.....and the cat turned over the lettuce. Was able to save most of them, he better leave them alone today!!

Lessons learned here:

Plan in advance!
Competition for the windowsill can result in casualties!
Need more sun for indoor growing.....this weekend will observe the sun to be more precise, and will try to get home earlier to take them out to the yard for a field trip:p


Next steps:
Finish fall bed in yard and plant that lovely kale, chard, lettuces, and spinach.
Get some more seedlings going in pots to compare growth rates on the windowsill
Start cleaning out the junk porch - this will be a long project, and not a fun one, lol!

[T-Bird]

Post your plans, we can comment and collaborate on these.

[DebB]

I would love to put in a fall bed of greens! I don't have available bed space right now though - so I'm wondering how best to proceed...

I'd like to plant collard, kale, chard and ? *Ü*

[RawSar]

Is there a brand of seeds that everyone buys?

Where do you buy your seeds?

[DejaVu]

RawSar, I am new to vegetable gardening and invested in 3 earthboxes this season. I am growing tomatoes and swiss chard effortlessly. I will ge getting some more for next summer and will plant kale and more greens. I don't have a yard, only a balcony, so the earthbox is great. Even people who have yards love the earthbox since it is easy and foolproof. Check them out at www.earthbox.com

[RawSar]

Thanks DejaVue !

The earthbox looks like an easy way to start.

[T-Bird]

I buy seeds from

groworganic.com
seedsofchange.com


I have also successfully planted seeds saved from store bought tomatoes and peppers.....

[DebB]

I have also successfully planted seeds saved from store bought tomatoes and peppers.....

Hi T-Bird ~ Can you tell me how you save seeds from tomatoes to plant later? I would love to do that this year as I've got several varieties I'd like to grow again next year, including an heirloom.

Thanks in advance!

I was at the store yesterday and I see they have fall plants for sale like chard, kale, different lettuces, etc. *Ü*

[T-Bird]

Hey Deb,

What I did with the tomatoes is just save the ones left on the cutting board! Scrapped them gently onto a paper plate or paper towel. Then dry for 2 weeks, I just left them out in the kitchen.

They adhere to the paper towel, so I tried planting with and without. Seems leaving the paper towel bit on didn't hurt germination...

With the peppers, pretty much the same, except they're not so wet.

Let them dry thoroughly, then plant or store for next year.

[DebB]

Thanks T-Bird -- that's exactly what I wanted to know! I'd read instructions about soaking them, blah blah - and how you did it works, so that's what I'll do.

I know I'd mentioned the Amish Paste tomatoes before and you commented on that - I'll definitely want to save some of those seeds. They're a winner for the dehydrator.

I now have volunteer Campari (on the vine tomatoes from Costco) bearing fruit. They came up on their own from our compost.. So, if they're as good as the ones from the store, I'll save those seeds too.

Yes - I planted seeds from the 6-pack of sweet peppers from Costco and they're all bearing fruit. I didn't know if they would or not. I just planted the seeds in little peat discs (I use the Jiffy pot green house trays, I've seen them at Walmart and Home Depot) and they did really well.

I also planted Tuscan cantelope seeds in my Jiffy discs and those are flowering. I'm sure it is probably too late in the season for when I planted them, but I just wanted to see what they'd do.

Thanks for the seed tips, I appreciate it!

On a side note - I'm originally from NW of Chicago, in McHenry (by Crystal Lake and Woodstock). Heck, now it's considered a suburb (sigh). My family still lives back there. Last time I was home was 2 years ago and it always changes so much! *Ü*

[T-Bird]

Keep in mind deb that the seeds might not be "true"


Meaning if your amish paste was fertilized by a different plant.....it will be it's own unique deal.


The growers I've been confabulating with recommend hand polinating then isolating the little branch with flowers and waiting until the toms start - then you know it will be true to form.....

[DebB]

Keep in mind deb that the seeds might not be "true"


Meaning if your amish paste was fertilized by a different plant.....it will be it's own unique deal.


The growers I've been confabulating with recommend hand polinating then isolating the little branch with flowers and waiting until the toms start - then you know it will be true to form.....

Thanks T-Bird! *Ü*

[Soose]

Hi, T-bird and all! I want to join you on this challenge. Since going Vegan, I have had a goal: to grow greens for my family.

Last winter, I tried my first indoor lettuce garden. I took some of the clear containers that greens are sold in (from Sam's Club); they are about 6" deep, and the size of a shoe box. I managed to start some lettuce but never really got a harvest. I could have harvested something like a Spring Salad mix, but I also want mature lettuces for salads.

Kind of busy right now but I plan to restart in the fall.

p.s. There are sites showing how to build your own earthboxes from 18gal type containers.

[Barbie2]

I just picked 5 BEAUTIFUL tomatoes from our garden and a few leftover cucumbers. The cucumbers are almost done for this summer. The tomatoes are huge this year. So juicy. I love gardening. I'm in for the Challenge! Also I'm thinking about next years garden. I plan to have few plants for each plot, with more variety of veggies.

Barb

[green jeanie]

progress.


so i missed the heat wave to get my seeds going but i was able to pick up lots of starts from the co-op

in containers: arugala, mixed lettuce greens, collards, sage, and something else....oh, mustard greens :)


ready for the ground: more collards, kale kale kale, escarole, and something else.....oh, red chard :)


i need to turn soil for a new spot in my shared garden space so i got some work ahead but yipeeeeeeeee!

so excited!!!

[T-Bird]

Hi, T-bird and all! I want to join you on this challenge. Since going Vegan, I have had a goal: to grow greens for my family.

Kewl!


Last winter, I tried my first indoor lettuce garden. I took some of the clear containers that greens are sold in (from Sam's Club); they are about 6" deep, and the size of a shoe box. I managed to start some lettuce but never really got a harvest. I could have harvested something like a Spring Salad mix, but I also want mature lettuces for salads.

I'm thinking drainage issues - too wet on the roots, or soil quality or light quality/quantity


Kind of busy right now but I plan to restart in the fall

Just wanted to note that if this is indoors, fine. If out - now is the time to plant fall crops, most of them anyway.


p.s. There are sites showing how to build your own earthboxes from 18gal type containers.

I've seen those - but they looked a bit beyond me work wise in terms of time committment, and also, I don't like plastic!

In my Rodales illustrated guide to organic gardening - there's a mini-plan to make a cement planter using cardboard boxes. I'm going to reinvestigate that "make your own earthbox" plan with fashioning a cement container instead.....

but like you.....not quite now, lol! busy busy!

[T-Bird]

ok - here's my update.

Been buying almost all my greens....:mad::(

I've been caught between crops! And with squirrels rofling my seedlings again - those varmits!

However, I have some lettuce and spinach that I've manage to get to about 2" high, in containers, too afraid to plant them out like I originally intended.....need to think on protections for them... Just a few leaves each - too early for early nibblings

Planted my fall bed.....

arugula
rainbow chard
2 kinds of kale.
parsley
cilantro
some turnips

Also added a large container that I got from my parents.....

Planted just 2-4 each of spinach, and 3 kinds of lettuce. This container is currently in the yard, it's about 2x1x1. with a loosely woven burlap tied over the top to keep out those varmits! It's made to placed over seedling, letting them grow throw, being a mulch and biodegrading.....so it does let quite a bit of light in - not sure if it's enough but so far this lot has just poked through....

Have the burlap over my fall bed too, so far most are just polling through or not yet even.

Also experimenting with 4 lettuces into a hanging planter on the front porch without protection....so far they have all poked through and noone rofling them....too bad that most of the porch is not sunny!!!

Mind you - the squirrels don't want the sprouts I don't believe, they just want to dig them up to see if there's anything else down there! I think my soil amendments attract them - but they love to dig up all my containers too - just ornamentals even - just to "see" if someone left a nut in there.....Perhaps it is just recently worked soil - makes them think of buried treasure in a nutshell!


The argula is amazing! poked through in just 2 days I think - and no one wants it so far but me........squirrels leaving them alone. Will wait till it is 3-4 inches and will harvest the lot.

Interestingly - my neighbor just took a bunch of my arugula from the main bed......I thought it was too old/too strong and asked if they cooked it - I would give them more. No - they don't cook it and he still wanted it for salads.....tried it right there said it was great. I will have to try to "man up" on the arugula front!

Out greened by a non raw fooder!!! I am humbled!!!


Having some of my mint today for the first time in a while - got tired of it I suppose, and it is time consuming to harvest - all those tiny leaves instead of something big like 2 leaves of big chard!

Also - beet greens from my garden for tomorrow's smoothie....

Can't wait for a salad of all my own lettuces!!

Playing cat and mouse with these sqirrels and other pests.....

I've started to feel like Mr. McGregor....

[T-Bird]

in containers: arugala, mixed lettuce greens, collards, sage, and something else....oh, mustard greens

Are you doing these indoors or out?

So far - all mine are outdoors, but they get dug up a lot - even on field trips (taking indoor container out for the afternoon) I went away for a few days so took my 4 indoor containers (with my 2 inch spnach and lettuces, a container with some tiny tomato plants I plant to do indoors later, and my weirdo greens - the edible chrysanthemums and beetberries which are still only 1-2 inch high after planting 1-2 months ago)

Anyway - these were put out on the table in the yard, and snugged in with the burlap with an old bottle in the center to keep the burlap up off the seedlings.

I've been very inspired by this container from my parents - even though it is plastic, lol!

With these tender greens, in my environment - think they need a lot of protection from the varmits!

NEXT TOPIC:

Will be researching grow lights. After observing the light in my tiny porch, not even enough light NOW to grow - will be worse in fall/winter....

I must turn to technology.....

[streetsurfer]

I'd like to try a hydro system this winter to keep me in greens - maybe a home made window farm as mentioned in another thread....or one called Emily's Garden by hydrofarms. You can count on me to participate, though. I can't say we won't be buying some other greens, but lettuce and spinach is easy to do under the low heat and energy efficiency of flourescents.

This is a small area I grew last winter under a 1' x 2' T-5 flourescent fixture. Once it got going, it was enough for salads and wraps for two on a daily basis through the winter and spring. Here I had some parris island romaine, and a few young beet greens off to the right, and the dome was wheat grass for the cat starting. I had more lettuce, carrots, beet greens, spinach, and some herbs growing under two 4' T-8 and T-12 fixtures.

http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo346/pasomoto/001-1.jpg

[Myca]

I would need a tutor to do this. I have no idea when to plant. My husband tells me I have a brown thumb. In fact, he tells anyone who will listen about my plant killing abilities.
Oh well, it will give him something else to talk about.
Where do I get the seeds?

[T-Bird]

hey myca!

Try groworganic.com

[T-Bird]

Looks like I will be able to harest about 6 baby spinach leaves, and maybe the same of lettuce, lol!!!

Learning curve in progress....


Am mixing some of my *strong* *mature* arugula with store bought romaine for today's lunch salad, wish me luck.

Streetsurfer~

I am highly impressed with your abundant lush indoor greenery!

Winter project on the books for sure~

[green jeanie]

ohhhhhhhhh

i am gonna have some pics for you!

i loved this and took it on!

[rawrawks]

I have been thinking about this alot. I have huge closets and I want to set up grow lights to grow greens in there!!!!!!! I am excited!

[T-Bird]

today just might be hitting paydirt!

Green smoothie with my beet greens.



Cilantro for my stuffed squash bosoms, the rest of my bolting crop's worth (got some new ones going, weeks away from anything.....


Side salad, 13 baby lettuce leaves with 4-5 bb spinach leaves ( all my tender little plants could spare.....this is VERY small, will combine with some of my arugula for more volume....


After this - I'll be paying at the supermarket because I will be out of EVERYTHING - except arugula! VERY strong arugula, lol!!!

But one day of independence can only lead to another.......several weeks away, if not months in the making!

But - We will do this!

UPDATES:

Many casualties off the fall bed and container lettuce plants - mostly squirrels who just want to bury their nuts in the nice loose dirt:mad:, my little seedlings broken and uneaten.... The heathens! Must increase security measure, red pepper not much of a deterrent.....to these anyway!

Meanwhile - a mouse has set up house in the main bed...Note to self - need more cats.....

Any other advice on the mouse deal?

Any updates from you lot?? Would love to hear them.....

Also - looking forward to fall winter planning. My little porch will need a grow light, won't work without as the sun shifts away to the south for chicago.

Also will be getting some talbes to put infront of the only window likely to get much sun in the dark of winter, may combine with grow light too....

What's new with you??:confused:

[green jeanie]

HA rawrawks!!!!!!! the grow room for greens

this makes me endlessly happy. hilarious, brilliant, inspired genius!

[alwayshungry]

I wish i could grow my own greens. Living in the heart of San Francisco and leading a busy working life won't allow me much time to join this endeavor, but best of luck

[darien]

I am new to gardening. What are the steps to growing greens indoor and out? And what items are required? Can they be grown at any time of the year?

[rawrawks]

I thnk so....I am going to get some grow lights and make my huge extra closet into a growing green room!!! Dirt and pots and seeds....ekkk where to get seeds this time o year???

I am going to try to transplant the produce I have growing on my porch into indoor pots and dirt ( as they have a ton of earthworms n them!) and rule out bugs from coming inside.

I picture my closet full of wonderful produce all winter....this makes me feel so very happy.

This season I have a porch garden and all the time fussing because I wanted it organic and my landlady sprays all over. She spryas trees for moths and grass for weeds n on n on it goes...ugh. PLUS her stinky dryer softener or detergent comes out the dryer vent and wafts over to my stuffages....ughagges.

So happy happy joy joy for indoor gardening...have air purifier etc n here..prob have better organics....hoooohay

[streetsurfer]

I have some tips if I may....

I would not try to bring in outdoor soil, containers, or plants, especially to a specific area for your indoor produce. At a young stage you might be successful rinsing all soil from the roots to do so, if you are going to grow hydroponically. Otherwise you will surely bring in pests. Even using compost finished outdoors can transport in pests. Compost tea could be used with a little less risk, although eggs could still be problem. At the very least quarantine and treat those plants you bring in. Not saying it can't be done, but be prepared to fight the pests down the road.

Choose a quality blended growing medium. Many have worm castings mixed in which provides good start up nutrients as well as amends the soil structure. I add diatomaceous earth to my soil to help reduce the chance of some pests. Pests can even come in with some grow mixes, especially those with high amounts of peat moss, but there are safe ways to fight them. Coconut coir, the processed remnants of the husk, makes a good soil amendment, as does coconut water make a good addition to the nutrients you use. The coconut water has a good assortment of minerals and growth hormones in it, and is at an agreeable ph for most plant growth. I read a test from back in the fifties, where it was conbined with nitrogen fertilizer for an increased yeild in soybean crops, as opposed to the fertilizer alone.

Fungus gnats, which often are connected with the peat moss blended into mixes can be a pain, but can be controlled with sticky traps, DE, and Bti-bacillus thuringiensis israelensis, a soil dwelling bacteria that damages the digestive systems of the larvae. It takes a few weeks to get rid of them all, as you are only targeting certain stages of their lifecycle (your local municipality or mosquito abatement likely uses Bti for mosquitos as a safe alternative to chemical pesticides.

You can extend your grow mix by adding ceramic grow rocks for a very nice loose soil for your plants with good drainage, and water and nutrient holding capacity. You could keep a worm binto compost yoruu kitchen scraps and use their castings, or buy castings for fertilizer. An indoor composter could be done too. Use caution if you do the worm bin, as they can get mites. I am not sure if those mites will bother your plants, but I do think they can be bad for the health of the worms and the success of the bin. I need to research that further but I do believe the mites could be real nuisance. I've only done a worm bin outdoors so far.

For a closet especially, you will need a way to keep it cool if you use grow lights that create much heat. You'll want timer to regulate your lighting hours. Flourescents are low heat, and T-5's are efficient that way (good light production, low energy consumption, and low heat), but can still make a tight space uncomfortable for plants if not provided ventiliation with some fresh air and good air movement. As you probably know, excess heat can cause plants to go to seed, or bolt, as well as make them grow leggy. You'll want a small fan to circulate the air and add a slight strain to the plants (simulating the wind), so they grow strong stems. That doesn't need to be constant, but can be put on a seperate timer. Brushing across the plants with your hands every now and then can have the same effect for the stem strength.

Water-I use filtered water for the plants, or at the very least will leave tap water gas off for a day before using it. Constant chlorine to the soil will build up salt levels which when high enough can be hurtful to the plants. It can disrupt their nutrient uptake.

I received an e-mail last week with Renee's as a seed company that is having seed sales now. Some items are limited but I have also found a good selection at Seeds Of Change. I recently purchased seeds from the produce section of our Safeway/Dominicks store.


I hope that helps you get off to a good start...I've tried to combine some of the basic issues you will be faced with as I have learned them through reading, my experience in lawn and plant care, and things I had success with in my indoor veggie garden. Good luck and have fun!

[T-Bird]

I thnk so....I am going to get some grow lights and make my huge extra closet into a growing green room!!! Dirt and pots and seeds....ekkk where to get seeds this time o year???

seedsofchange.com groworganic.com.

also, tomatobob.com had some seed pack for 25cents! I could not see that they were certified organic though....but I will grow them that way....

I'm always bringing outdoor plants inside, even digging them up from the ground and potting them.

No horror stories yet!

My update:

Last night's salad greens were all of my own - either planting or foraging!
harvested some of my new arugula (not many left due to carnage in the garden). Once again I hit up my 1st batch of bb lettuces and spinach for just a few leafs each -

I was suprised they had some more to offer within a week! I waited about 4 weeks for the first lot, so gaining momentum!!

That only gave me about 15 baby leaves.....so...
I took one bb leaf off my 2 tiny chard from the fall bed, ditto from some 3 inch high kales! snipped what I could from the sprouting cilantro,

Interestingly, in my fall bed, I found some wild lambs quarters growing - 2 seperate plants about 2" high, took the top cluster of leaves from each. Did a little weeding and added the bb dandelion leaves into the mix.

Added in from my parsley, and it was a very interesting mix of baby greens.

Harvested the rest of my parsley for this am's GS. Only a cup of parsley, this is the first real harvest - planted about 6 plants in may/june.

So I think it is a LONG wait for greens from planting, even taking the bb leavees unless you plant a ton.

So thinking this over, I have 3 waves of lettuce plantings going now (not counting the fall bed with chard, kale, cilantro, parsley, and arugula....)

First wave

Planted about a month ago, 6 remaining lettuce plants and 4 spinach made it through the carnage (squirrles inflicting daily damage on crops and especially containers as they dig around - they aren't aafter the greens, but ruin a lot of them....)

So after 4-5 weeks, I've harvested in total maybe 1 cup of greens. OUCH!

Second wave,

Planted 16 lettuces about 2-3 weeks ago, about 13 came up, only 7 still with us. These might be able to spare 1 baby leaf each in about a weeks time.:p

Third wave,

To compensate for the carnage from #2, replanted about 6-8 more lettuce in the same place in the container. Waiting for them to pop up.

Need to put in a few more spinach, then I'm hoping these will see me in salads until winter comes on.

For smoothies, hoping the old parsley and fall bed greens will do it. Plus a few new beets in the main bed are struggling against a nibbler, Only 2 plants remain out of 6 that came through.....

Lessons learned: Anticipate casualities when determining how many to plant.

Although, seccessional planting is not a bad idea, especially for greens...

[tvillemom]

I wanna play. I'm thinking this late in the season, I need to start indoors. I want fresh stuff throughout the winter.....I'm even thinking of getting DH to invest in one of those little greenhouse windows...??? I would probably use that for stuff like wheat grass and sunflower greens (other micro greens????) I'm really new to gardening. My outdoor garden was started toooooo late this year and only grew a few tomatoes and well....nothing else put off any fruit because it was just too late in the season when I planted.

Anyway....I'm thinking of investing in grow lights...but I need to come up with an area I can put them. I guess the space I need depends on the amount of plants I grow. What would grow in the little flats (like micro greens and wheat grass) anything else?

Is there a website to learn about all this stuff???? With the economy sucking right now, I need to grow all I can, and I know greens seem to be an easy thing to grow, and would help in my budget.

[T-Bird]

I wanna play. I'm thinking this late in the season, I need to start indoors.

Au contraire!

spinach lettuce and the like are cool season plants! Spinach for example will regrow after several light frosts.

I'm currently reading a book detailing how a simple cold frame can supply you with fresh greens all winter long - AND - they taste better than summer grown greens.

I can't wait!

Without protection, you should be able to be harvesting greens through to December, depending on the weather. I'm in chicago, so if you're in Canada or Minnesota, maybe your conditioners are harsher.

The writer of this book is in Maine - so cold winters for sure.

[saxmaam]

This link is to a salad mix at a company I love to deal with. The neat thing about the mixes is that you get a lot of variety in your garden. And it would be very cost effective to go in with somebody else on the larger quantities of seed.

http://rareseeds.com/seeds/Chefs-Choice-Mixed-Greens

[tvillemom]

Thanks ya'll, I'll have to check into making some kind of cold frame! This gives me more hope.....gotta get started.