View Full Version : Gaining "Weight" without gaining Fat
08-17-2005, 10:30 AM
Peace to all,
I recently have been following a workout/eating routine where i'm looking to gain muscle mass and size, and so far after about 2 weeks i've gained 5 pounds. However, i've also noticedthat my body fat percentage has gone up considerably (even though i really don't trust the machine that i'm using to measure that). According to the machine its gone from 7-8% up to about 19%! Now again, i don't trust the reading too much on the machine.
I'll assume that it may have gone up, but maybe not quite THAT much. My question is if anyone knows of any routines where one can maintain a 7-8% body fat and still gain "weight"?
My educated guess would be that it's diet related. I've been eating a lot more "good" fat with avocados, nuts, etc. But sometimes i feel that i'm overloading on them and see myself overeating them at times, and that can result in that body fat gain.
If anyone could help out, i'd greatly appreciate it.
08-17-2005, 11:12 AM
Hi, Universal :)
Do you consume dehydrated foods? If I wanted to gain weight, I would. Most contain grains, which will increase your calories. Beans are also good.
I would consume as many calorically dense foods as possible -- dried fruit is a good one. As well, high-calorie fresh fruit, such as bananas, figs and very sweet fruits, such as mangoes. Cut some of the overt fats in your diet, but not completely. Increasing your calories is the way to go.
My fat intake is at about 10% give-or-take -- can fluctuate a bit. Losing weight at first is common. I did too, and I had *none* to spare. I kept it up, though (keeping fat low) and eventually got up to a great weight.
100 lbs. on a terrible diet is not the same as 100 lbs. on an optimal one! Definitely. I would look haggard on the former; not at all on the latter.
08-17-2005, 11:20 AM
Also, keep your weightlifting for bulk -- do explosive lifting -- low reps, high weight, two, maybethree times a week. Don't over-tax your muscles, but lift heavy to failure. For muscle mass you need good recovery, so resist the temptation to do extra days, even if you can.
08-17-2005, 12:00 PM
I have always been told that you cannot gain mass without putting on some fat too at the same time. Like it's hard to gain mass when you are trying to burn fat. Although you can keep the fat gain at a min by eating clean foods/fats. Alot of folks like to bulk in the fall/winter times when they are covered by more clothing. ;) And then do a 'fat loss' in the spring/summer to show off all the muscle that you built. :D
Just eat according to the goals you have at this time. If you are trying to bulk up then EAT and don't worry to much about fat gain, it will be minimal and you can take that right back off with ease because of all the muscle you've built.
08-17-2005, 12:31 PM
I like jaurequi's suggestions. Increased caloric intake with increased resistance and lower reps 2 maybe 3 times per week will probably do the trick. Be very careful not to overtrain or over tax the bone structure or tendons.
08-17-2005, 05:48 PM
Thanks for all the replies. You all are tremendous. Truly.
Jaurequi, to answer you questions, no i don't eat any grains or beans. I haven't even given it thought. Good idea to give it a try though. I'm just worried about the possible mucus content of grains.
I consume a HUGE amount of dry fruits. I eat about 5-7 bananas a day. (sometimes more!), i eat a lot of raisins, figs, and apricots on occasion.
As far as the workouts, i usually do heavy resistance lifting three days a week. Focusing on legs, arms, and abs.
And i've been eating a lot more larger meals as well.
The way i'm starting to see it, if i continue doing what i'm doing for say another week or so, and i gain another 5 pounds and reach about 150, i can then continue with the same resistance weight training program and then perhaps cut down on the "fatty" foods and it will result in me MAINTAINING the weight while decreasing the amount of fat in my body.
Its not even that i'm really obsessed with the fat, its just that i have a desire to look a certain way, and my look to be more toned and cut will be enhanced with lesser body fat.
Does that sound like a reasonable idea?? I'm thinking of trying this out.
Also, what role would cardio play in this?? I've been doing a lot more sprinting than distance jogging, just thinking from a physiological standpoint. I'd rather have the build of an olympic sprinter rather than a distance runner.
I have always been concentrating on distance running for much of this past year, and that may or may not have contributed to my weight or possible strength loss.
Any thoughts on that.??
Any feedback would be appreciated.
And once again, thanks for taking the time to respond to me.
08-17-2005, 05:56 PM
From what I was told once from a trainer who had a body fat of 5%:
to lose weight, you have to take in less than you expend.
to gain lean muscle mass, you must take in more than you expend.
(but I'm not so sure this would really ring true following raw foods)
That's why people do calorie/carb cycling so they can do both at the same time. Don't know if that answer will help or not...
08-17-2005, 08:07 PM
Aaargh! just wrote a long post and it disappeared! Okay, I'll try to remember what I wrote:
Hey, Universal, you don't have to eat grains if you don't want to :).
However, what is your veggie intake? I would increase your greens. Do the green smoothies.
Cut down on the dry fruit :); but keep up the fresh fruit (increase it if you can). (Also, I'm sure you know this, but try to brush after eating dry fruit! And, if possible after fresh, or at least rinse till you can. You don't want to have dental troubles!)
Get some seeds and nuts here and there, and don't overload on the avos and other fats. If you feel you're overdoing it, you are.
Your sprinting ideas are good; I'd keep doing that. However, still do some cardio, just don't do it fast or for too long.
A good thing to try once a week is ride the bike for 10 minutes at a moderate fat-burning pace, then increase the intensity ( :D fun!) to reeeeally feel the buuuurn. Do this for 10-15 minutes; you should be pretty sore (if not, then you need to take it up a notch). Rest for a few days at least to recover. Or use this to alternate on leg days with your other leg workouts. You don't want to keep doing the same routine week after week, month after month...Changing it up, keeps the problem of plateauing at bay.
Do you do squats? I'd start doing those with weights. Do you have someone to spot you? You may be able to grab someone at the gym. Add those in to your leg work
Are you working shoulders?
So, eat lots of high-cal fruit, as often and as much as you want till satisfied, preferably fresh.
Eat lots of greens; get in some higher-cal veggies -- corn is good, peas too.
Eat nuts and seeds, moderately.
Yes, your distance running probably contributed, but, think of it as a good thing: your endurance and breathing are probably spot on :)
I know the look you want and it just requires heavy weights with moderate cardio,(plus the sprinting) good recovery time, and lots of usable calories without an overload of fat. You seem to know this :)
One of the hardest learned lesson for me was patience. You need to realize it takes time to, number one, transition to a new way of eating; and, two, it takes time to build true muscle weight!
It was really difficult for me to abstain from a workout; overtraining is SO easy -- as easy as undertraining. Give your body time to repair all that muscle you ripped :).
It seems you are still just discovering what works for *you* -- your body's needs. It takes a while to get the balance right.
Doug Graham who supposedly has counseled athletes has a few interesting things to say about this. He advocates all fresh fruit, followed by fresh veggies, with very little added fat; no oils, no grains, no dried foods. Not exactly for me, but close. Maybe you'd like to consider his program? since you don't like the idea of grains and beans, you may like his philosophy.
You can always tailor it to suit your needs. Either way, you can glean what you need from various sources; that's what I do :)
Article by Graham: http://www.fredericpatenaude.com/skinny.html
Graham's site: http://www.doctorgraham.cc/
Whew! Okay, I think that's most of what I wanted to say...I think
08-19-2005, 10:05 AM
Peace Jaurequi and thanks for your reply,
"However, what is your veggie intake? I would increase your greens. Do the green smoothies. "
For the record, i've upp'd my amount of greens significantly over the last 3 weeks. I eat large salads as well as green smoothies whenever necessary, and they work out real well for me.
"Cut down on the dry fruit :); but keep up the fresh fruit (increase it if you can). (Also, I'm sure you know this, but try to brush after eating dry fruit! And, if possible after fresh, or at least rinse till you can. You don't want to have dental troubles!)"
What exactly (so i'm sure, i have an idea) would be classified as dry fruits, and which fresh fruits can i increase to make up for the lack of dry fruits in my diet??
"Do you do squats? I'd start doing those with weights. Do you have someone to spot you? You may be able to grab someone at the gym. Add those in to your leg work"
Yes i do squats with a couple of dumbels. I honestly would rather work alone rather than being at a gym. I am becoming totally despised of gyms just cuz of the lack of hygiene by a bunch of meat-eating lards of sweat, combined with the terrible music, crowdiness. Its just not a good combination for me. If i can, i would prefer to workout alone and at home.
"Are you working shoulders? "
Yes i work on shoulders each time i do resistance weight lifting. I love shoulder exercises.
"So, eat lots of high-cal fruit, as often and as much as you want till satisfied, preferably fresh."
What exactly would qualify as high-cal (i'm assuming low-fat) fruit???
"Eat lots of greens; get in some higher-cal veggies -- corn is good, peas too."
How exactly would i prepare corn?? I've heard that corn really isn't digestible by the body, and that we really don't derive any nutrition from it, (which can be a complete lie, i don't believe it) but what if any knowledge do you have on corn?? I still haven't tried eating raw green peas. I'll have to look into that.
"It was really difficult for me to abstain from a workout; overtraining is SO easy -- as easy as undertraining. Give your body time to repair all that muscle you ripped :). "
Exactly how can one classify that they're overtraining?? I've always done lifting three days a week (Mon., Wed., Fri.) and done cardio and/or sprinting, or bikeriding, the other days in between, with usually a complete off day on thursday (which is also the day i normally fast).
Now with a new routine including heavy resistance training, should i perhaps have ANOTHER day off of everything other than Thursday, or maybe not lift those many times a week???
Thanks again for those links to Dr. Graham. I woud love to read a book of his. Do you happen to have any that deal with nutrition and athletic training?? That would be well worth the bargain for someone like my Self.
As always, i appreciate the reply.
08-19-2005, 11:23 AM
Sounds like your routine is tight Universal. Sounds like all you need is slight tweaking to your resistance training, thats all. The only change I would make is to do the higher weight, lower rep work on 2 of the 3 days you do resistance training. Try it for a month or so and note if there are any changes. I am totally with you with regard to the gym scene. Thats why I definitely prefer to work out at home its quiet, peaceful and I can focus better. Plus its cheaper (smile).
08-20-2005, 10:21 AM
Examples of dried fruit here: http://www.bulkfoods.com/dried_fruits.asp#Sweetened,%20no%20added%20sulfur:
Examples of high-cal, sweet fruits would be:
Dark, sweet grapes
Not sure if you eat roots, but carrots, beets, parsnips are high-carb. Do you like fresh coconut?
Add celery for sodium to your smoothies if you're not ingesting salt
I don't know about not digesting corn...seems to have sustained Native Americans for centuries :) I eat it raw.
I understand about the gym :). I can honestly say I abhor the gym. I do have a membership which I maintain because, having been a member since I was 17, allows me a very inexpensive yearly renewal. I use it rarely, but when I do need it, (like when I'm going out of town or it's bad weather out) it really is a lifesaver!
But, it would be nice to have a spotter: It would allow you to really push yourself to do explosive lifting with heavier weight.
Do you do deadlifting? Again, a spotter would be helpful. However, if you have good form, you can do these alone, albeit with lesser weight, but still effective.
Why are you fasting?
Personally, I think you're working out too much (too many days). I would do 4 days and see if that helps improvement. I think you should be lifting *hard.* You should be sore and swollen :). If you want muscle, and especially size, you need to lift heavy and recover.
For example, Universal, you should be so sore the next day, that you can't lift -- how's that? :D
*I don't want you to hurt yourself though. Which is why a spotter would be helpful. I don't know your abilities, so all I can say is don't lift so heavy to dislocate anything! You should be sore; not injured (joints hurt, sprains,strains which prevent you from working out, etc.). *
Never read any books by Graham, however, I think you should read through all the FAQ's on his site; there are tidbits in each which you'll find helpful.
I believe you'll find his books on his site. I'm pretty sure there's a sports one there.
08-28-2005, 03:53 PM
08-29-2005, 10:07 AM
Thanks for the listings on the high calorie sweet fruits. I definitely consume more than enough of those per day and they are helping me also keep my consumption of nuts down. ( I tend to overeat them sometimes, and as a result i eat less greens on the occasions that i do. )
I do eat beets often, haven't had carrots in a while. I Love fresh Coconut whenever possible. There's a lot of things i can do with it too.
As of now, i just moved back down to Miami to return to school, and i bought a couple of 20 lb dumbells and i'm doin' the best i can makin' myself a nice workout routine with them. Since i don't have heavier weights, what i've been doing to compensate is doing all of my reps slower. Like almost slow motion lifting for certain exercises (like bicept curls for example) and going at a normal pace for other more strenuous exercises.
Why am i fasting??
I choose to fast for a number of different reasons. Mainly, i just feel that its necessary to give my body a chance to rest itself and clean itself out with no distractions from myself at least one day out of the week. Also, i have had bad acne for a while, and i have yet to find the right and exact solution for that, so i feel that its worth a try to see if any results come about with doing that, along with the other things i'm doing.
I mean i play it by what my body says. If my day to fast comes and the day before i'm not feeling that well, or something just isn't "right", than i won't fast. Everything has to be in the correct order for me to fast. That's one great benefit i've found from being raw is being able to communicate with your body. That is such an amazing science.
How do you feel about fasting that would make you question why or why not i should??? I'm open to any and ALL ideas and suggestions.
08-29-2005, 11:12 AM
Sounds like you are doing the right things. You just need more time and patience. Fasting once per week is an excellent idea for cleansing the system and the skin. With the raw diet,Exercize, fasting and time, you will have clear beautiful skin.
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