Non-Organic Raw No Better than Cooked?

[katchmoleen]

On another thread, where we were discussing raw food on a budget, the opinion has been expressed that if you can't do only organic raw produce, you might as well just eat cooked food, as it will do you no good. Is that the concensus here? Shall I throw in the towel right now? Once the basic bills are paid for the month, I have about $1000 left. That has to pay for any and all expenses that come up, like car repairs, medical bills, education expenses, etc etc etc. AND FOOD. So now you can see why I have been keeping my grocery bills at $100/week for the eight of us. I realize I will have to pay more to go raw, especially if the rest of my family stays on meat and dairy. But if I were to try to do all organic (we do quite a bit of organic even on $100/week, but not all) it would be impossible. I would have no money left to pay any other expenses. So am I wasting my time trying to do raw on mostly conventional produce?

[RawHeaven]

I think eating conventional produce if you can only afford that...is A okay. There is some information coming out about organic produce...some of it still contains pesticides believe it or not. So you just have to trust your gut instincts and do plenty of research to make sure you're really eating actual organic produce as far as I'm concerned. Eat what feels right to you and do the very best you can. Your body will tell you loudly and clearly if it's not right for you. Fresh, whole, organic, locally grown....preferably grown in your own backyard or on your own land is highly preferable. But when you can't do that...again do the best you can.

Jinjee has a great quote:

"What we believe is very important. I can be eating the healthiest diet in the world, but if I still worry that I’m eating poorly, it won’t do me as much good. Or I can be eating what I believe is the best diet, and even if it isn’t, it will do me good, and it will lead me to a better way of life. The thing is to do what we really believe in. The other thing is to not focus only on diet. The focus is on good health, or on being a balanced person. Then everything falls in place.
-Jinjee

[contessa20]

I haven't read the other post to which you are referring but I personally do not subscribe to that line of thinking. Not at all. I buy some organic but not 100% and I have still had PLENTY of good results on a raw food diet including complete elimination of debilitating migraines (after suffering from them WEEKLY for about 18 yrs.), complete elimination of asthma and losing over 40 pounds.

Just do what you can and ignore the naysayers.

[Irish_Vegan_Girl]

On another thread, where we were discussing raw food on a budget, the opinion has been expressed that if you can't do only organic raw produce, you might as well just eat cooked food, as it will do you no good. Is that the concensus here? Shall I throw in the towel right now? Once the basic bills are paid for the month, I have about $1000 left. That has to pay for any and all expenses that come up, like car repairs, medical bills, education expenses, etc etc etc. AND FOOD. So now you can see why I have been keeping my grocery bills at $100/week for the eight of us. I realize I will have to pay more to go raw, especially if the rest of my family stays on meat and dairy. But if I were to try to do all organic (we do quite a bit of organic even on $100/week, but not all) it would be impossible. I would have no money left to pay any other expenses. So am I wasting my time trying to do raw on mostly conventional produce?

I don't eat a lot of organic raw. I do eat raw because it makes me feels good, it's what I can get and sometimes I will get organic spinach or apples or another plant. But, as I do stil leat cooked food, I realize that raw food makes me feel a lot better, whether it's organic or not it's working for me. Do what makes you feel good.

[Aleesha Sattva]

i eat some organic some not. doesn't matter really as long as it's raw. ;)

remember... take what resonates with you and leave the rest. everyone will have a different opinion on everything. (((hugs)))

[cara4art]

My two cents here:
In a perfect world, it would be great if everything we could eat right down to the things we use in tiny amounts(like spices and seasonings)would be organic - however that's not the reality that many of us face, what with living in different parts of the country where organic produce is simply not very available, or it is prohibitively expensive or both. In fact, in many of the areas of the country, even conventional produce can be expensive, let along organic, due to availability. I know, I lived in New Mexico for 12 years, and even conventional produce was three times at least more expensive as I can get here at the ethnic stores here in SF. Many of us have households of more than one person and families to think about(even if it is just one other person - LOL!)AND are on low budgets, especially these days, including DH and myself. I say, do the best you can with seasonal produce, wash produce with a good fruit and veggie wash when possible, look for deals on organic(sometimes you can find surprising ones)if you are able, grow a few things(even if it's just a tomato plant and some herbs) - do whatever you can to keep those raw natural foods coming. A cheap way to keep organic fresh things coming is sprouting and growing micro-greens from certain sprouted seeds if you are able also. Last but not least, don't stress about is this food or that food organic or not - that kind of ongoing stress isn't good either. Just shifting over to a raw food diet is a big enough challenge for most of us. Again, just my two cents here!

[sport]

Apples and oranges
They are 2 totally different arguments.

[sport]

100 % raw.
As organic as you can be without sacrificing your values.

[MelanieC]

For me eating organic has been an evolution, and obviously 100% of your food can't be organic. It's something I take step by step, and honestly in the last year I've seen more and more organics as well as the price going down. It will continue in my opinion as more and more people start choosing organic. Eating any produce or raw whether organic or not is better than the typical S.A.D. diet, so please don't feel you have to be organic. Go slow with organics and look around you. I started to make slow changes with buying organics. I would buy frozen organic fruit because I couldn't find afford the high cost of organic blueberries. Especially when I wanted them for smoothies. At whole foods I can get organic berries and other frozen fruit for between $1.99 and $3.29. It is half the size of the non organic frozen fruits.......but I've gotten used to buying he organic. I would choose something and start buying that item organic and let it become part of my shopping trip till I got used to that adjustment and price difference.

Also I try to buy one new organic dried spice once or twice a month to add to my spice collection when I run out of something. The most important ones are ones you use often, like for me it was cinnamon, cumin, chili powder etc.

I'm also finding that now instead of buying as much milk and yogurt, I can put that money into my nuts. I was buying organic milk for between $3.50 and $4.50 a 1/2 gallon. My yogurt was around $3.50 for a large containor of organic. Now I just need to find an alternative to get the probiotics back into my diet. (any suggestion's - I know they are out there, I just have to figure it out). Maybe I may try to grow some Kefir almond milk. I wonder if that is possible. I heard once you get a batch started you can just take part of it and reuse it on the next batch.

When I go shopping I try to buy a big staple item like raw honey, organic olive oil, raw cocoa, raw apple cider, etc - I don't buy them all each week, I try to rotate what I buy or buy one or two bigger ticket items each time I shop. I also would go to Whole foods/trader joes every two weeks, but now that I'm buying so much fruit and veggies I'm not buying as much of the other higher priced items I used to buy....so it's evening out. I also realize I can't have every fruit veggie out there so I try to think of what I really need. The first week I bought too much and I didn't utalize a lot before it started going bad. Plus I went out of town. I ended up freezing some of it, and I bought less last week. Hopefully I can perfect knowing how much I need. My goal would be to someday be able to make a menu and buy just the veggies I need. I am realizing I will most likely have go weekly now. It's a learning process. My goal is that I'd like to get it to where I shop for my raw items and only spend around $60 a week. This past week I spent $32 on cocoa (19.95) and raw almonds (16oz for $11.95) and then at Whole foods I spent $70 for mostly fruits and veggies and apple cidar vinegar. I realized I bought too much celery (but it was .99 cents each for organic - I couldn't pass it up) and I may try freezing what I don't eat.

I'm just taking it one day at a time. Do what you can, even if it's not organic......its still better than eating a regular diet. Don't throw in the towel. If organics are something you'd like to add if and when you have the money - just look at the prices, try local farmer's markets and just be open to trying things. I'll eat a non organic banana before I'd eat organic berries or an apple.

[betty boop]

I was very disheartened when I read that other thread. I felt like giving up and thought why even bother anymore. Most of the produce I eat isn't even available here organic. I have never seen an organic watermelon or cantelope or honeydew etc, and the organic greens are packaged in bags and flown in from God knows where and were most likely picked a long long time ago. Undoubtably they are probably sprayed with some kind of gas that inhibits mold also.

Now that's it's summer, I've been buying at the Farmers Market, organic if I can get it otherwise just plain old greens but most likely they were picked yesterday as opposed to last week or last month and gassed then smothered in a bag and labeled organic.

[RaeVynn]

The only thing I won't compromise organic for, is corn.

I will buy frozen organic corn, or I will go without (for like dehydrated corn chips), rather than use conventionally grown raw corn. Corn is one of the most GMO crops there is (along with soy, cotton, and canola), and I won't eat GMO corn. If I can get organic, raw sweet corn, then Hallelujah!

For most things, though, raw is definitely better than cooked!

[EZ rider]

I don't think eating some non-organic produce is worse then eating a cooked food diet. I have heard that some of the purist water on the planet is found inside plants. How did that water get so clean. I have heard that the plants filter what they take in. Given that how can raw plant food be worse then SAD ?

[Jehote]

I dont eat organic. at all. but i have the blood work to PROVE that eating fruits and veggies as opposed to S.A.D. is FAR better than eating S.A.D.
you cant tell me that a NON-organic apple is as bad as a Twinkie.
Matthew

[~Summer~]

I was very disheartened by the other thread as well:(. It is great to hear not everyone feels that way.

[donnyandcathy]

I'm so glad this thread was started, because I was also very down after reading the other thread. I try to buy most of my stuff organic, like the dirty dozen list, but sometimes I can't find everything organic, or I don't have the extra money. We are a one income family of 6, and my husband works very hard to make what he makes. Even though all my food isn't organic, I feel
A LOT better than I ever did eating cooked food including organic cooked food.
Cathy

[RawKnitster]

Don't be discouraged. We all have to do the best we can with what is available. You are far better off feeding your family non-organic foods than cooked foods, which would probably also be non-organic.

I remember a time when organic produce wasn't in any grocery stores. It is becoming available in more places because people are DEMANDING it. And prices will continue to improve as competition increases.

I have no problem telling the produce managers at my local stores that their prices are high or the greens look wilted. We may have to compromise, but that doesn't mean we should do it quietly.

[EatRaw]

you cant tell me that a NON-organic apple is as bad as a Twinkie.
Matthew

Haha..I like that.. :D How bout a deep fried twinkie? :eek: LOL They do that ya know...

dave

[MelanieC]

Yep they also do deep fried oreos and snickers too. I've actually had a deep fried oreo at Disney before. I didn't feel guilty eating it since I just ran a half marathon that morning.

[Springtime]

I get as much organic as i can, sometimes that's 1 thing out of 25 in my basket, and sometimes that's all 25.
It depends on price, avaliability, my mood and what i'm using the stuff for.

There's no way anyone can convince me that a non-organic apple is as bad cooked regular food.

peace

[Seedy]

I try to keep my food budget under $50 a week, but its a real struggle. Like many folks, my pay was recently cut 10% because of the recession. If I tried to eat all organic I would starve. I go to a local Midwestern store called Aldi's where the produce is super cheap. I can fill my cart with fresh and frozen fruit, and all my favorite veggies for about $30. I sprout beans and seeds to add more living foods and only set foot in the health food store for specialty items like flax seeds, sprouting seeds and miso. In a month or so I should start seeing some fresh veggies in the garden (this is Michigan - we had frosts right into June). Gogi berries, raw cacao and other superfoods are off the menu for now. Sometimes I can get organic romaine hearts, strawberries and baby carrots for the same price as conventional. When I can I snap them up, but I don't worry about it. I've got enough worries as it is! LOL.
Seedy

[~ladybug]

I dont eat organic. at all. but i have the blood work to PROVE that eating fruits and veggies as opposed to S.A.D. is FAR better than eating S.A.D.
you cant tell me that a NON-organic apple is as bad as a Twinkie.
Matthew

Thanks Matthew... that's proof enough for me.

[rawmiss]

I remember reading about how most of the pesticides in the food supply are not actually found in produce, here are some of the websites where I found that info:

http://www.vegan-nutritionista.com/vegan-facts.html
Increase in overall pesticide use since 1945: 3,300%
Increase in overall crop losses due to insects since 1945: 20%
Increase in the amount of pesticides applied per acre to corn since 1945: 100,000%
Increase in corn crop losses since 1945: 400%
Amount of total herbicides that are applied to crops used to feed livestock: 61%
Chlorinated hydrocarbon pesticide residues in the U.S. diet supplied by meat: 55%
Pesticide residues in the U.S. diet supplied by Dairy products: 23%
Pesticide residues in U.S. diet supplied by vegetables: 6%
Pesticide residues in U.S. diet supplied by fruits: 4% :)
Pesticide residues in U.S. diet supplied by grains: 1%

http://store-galore.net/Vegetarian.Ideas/
Meat contains approximately 14 times more pesticides than plant foods; dairy products contain 5-1/2 times more pesticides than plant foods.
15 million pounds of antibiotics are used in animal production every year- These drugs end up in your milk and meat.
95-99 percent of toxic chemical residues in the American diet come from animal sources.

http://thecookshouse.tripod.com/reasons.html
YOU WILL AVOID TOXIC CHEMICALS
The EPA estimates that nearly 95 percent of
pesticide residue in our diet comes from meat, fish
and dairy products. Fish, in particular, contain
carcinogens (PCB's, DDT) and heavy metals (mercury,
arsenic, lead, cadmium) that cannot be removed
through cooking or freezing. Meat and dairy
products are also laced with steroids and hormones.

http://www.vegetablekillers.net/forums/veg-food/34483-the-beneficial-vegan-diet.html
Of all pesticides found in food, 90% are found in meat and dairy products (Moby).

[RawHemp]

Who cares if 0% of the pesticides and herbicides end up in our food? 100% ends up in our earth, lakes, oceans, rivers etc. You could get hit by a bus and drop dead tommorow but the earths still gonna be here. Everytime you don't buy organic your supporting company's that don't give one hoot about me or you or our earth. Most natural water sources are contaminated with fertilizers and pesticides thanks to these people and everytime u don't buy organic u support them. People in this thread need to stop thinking about them selves and look at the bigger picture. Just think about it like this: Your funding these companys to wage a war against its own citizens, you the consumer are the one hurt the most by these horrific mass plantations and factory farms. Start and organic garden, figure out how to make more money, move do whatever you have to do to stop supporting these heathens

[Rose Goddess]

Non organic raw food still has many components that cooked food doesn't, such as enzymes and more delicate vitamins and amino acids which get destroyed with high heat. Be careful of the "all or nothing attitude." It can get us into a lot of trouble. Ultimately, I believe trusting our intuition is the best thing we can do when it comes to diet (or anything else in life);)

[TaupeRawMan]

I always choose organically grown. It pays to ask the farmers you are buying from (if you go to farmer's markets....) whether they spray or use any chemical fertilizers. You might be surprised how many are not using any detrimental chemicals, but aren't certified organic because of the cost. Their produce prices can be less than those who are certified, but make sure to ask what they use regarding fertilizers, etc.

If I can't find something I want in a non-pesticide form, I choose something else...

[iluvmangos]

Who cares if 0% of the pesticides and herbicides end up in our food? 100% ends up in our earth, lakes, oceans, rivers etc. You could get hit by a bus and drop dead tommorow but the earths still gonna be here. Everytime you don't buy organic your supporting company's that don't give one hoot about me or you or our earth. Most natural water sources are contaminated with fertilizers and pesticides thanks to these people and everytime u don't buy organic u support them. People in this thread need to stop thinking about them selves and look at the bigger picture. Just think about it like this: Your funding these companys to wage a war against its own citizens, you the consumer are the one hurt the most by these horrific mass plantations and factory farms. Start and organic garden, figure out how to make more money, move do whatever you have to do to stop supporting these heathens

Yeah, but some people actually do NOT have the money in the bank to buy all organic. Not everyone can just pack up and move either.

[Jehote]

Thanks Matthew... that's proof enough for me.

:) hi! first see what it does for YOU! i know it worked for ME!
i was at 242 for cholesterol in Nov. im at 123 as of May. off all my meds as well. Raw helped me lose 60 lbs in about 6 months and i am keeping it off! it took work. cardio, weights, diet. etc. i was vegan before i was raw and i DO struggle with raw. not vegan. i LOVE vegan!
but anyways, this is how i KNOW it works. Bloodwork and a Dr. who said KEEP doing this! its saving your life!
Matthew

[Eva]

I get everything organic that I am physically and financially able.

Nevertheless -- I have lived in a place where it was very difficult to find organic. I thrived -- on RAW NONORGANIC produce.

I have to respectfully but strongly disagree with the line of thinking that organic cooked is better than nonorganic raw.

[Raediance]

Here is some info from the Environmental Working Group (EWG).

http://www.foodnews.org/

This list has made a HUGE impact on my food budget as well as on my mindset about this issue.

A lot of people have heard of the 'Dirty Dozen' but this new list also adds a 'Clean 15'. Basically, the crops with the most pesticides and also the foods with the least amounts of pesticides. I carry this list with me in my wallet so that whenever I shop I can check the list.

Dirty Dozen: Peach, Apple, Bell Pepper, Celery, Nectarine, Strawberry, Cherries, Kale, Lettuce, Grapes, Carrots, Pears. (I would add Potato)

Clean 15: Onion, Avocado, Sweet Corn, Pineapple, Mango, Asparagus, Sweet Peas, Kiwi, Cabbage, Eggplant, Papaya, Watermelon, Broccoli, Tomato, Sweet Potato (I personally only buy organic tomatoes)

Hope this helps as much as it has helped me!!!

And FYI they also put out a list where you can check your cosmetics products for toxicity. Check it out!

http://www.cosmeticsdatabase.com

[Aleesha Sattva]

soooooo happy to see watermelon on the clean list!!!

[EZ rider]

Sprouting is an economical way to get clean greens.

Good thread -- very informative. :)

[supersonic_528]

I'm trying to understand the difference between 'conventional with very less pesticide' and organic. Let us take the example of onion, which is #1 in the clean list. Can we say that conventional onion is as good as organic onion? I mean, is pesticide content the only difference between conventional and organic? In the case of onion, we can think that pesticide content is almost zero in both, but does that mean that they are the same nutritionally?

[Raediance]

For me, in my perfect world, every item at my neighborhood grocery store would be a) grown locally and ethically b) grown organically and c) affordably priced.

Unfortunately, I don't live in that world so I do the best I can. The list just helps me to make decisions. For example, today I was at Whole Foods. The organic onions were $1.99/lb & they were large onions so, basically I could get 1 onion for about $2. The 3 pound bags of smaller conventional onions (~7 of them) were $2.99. For me, a no brainer. The $$ I saved on the onions (low pesticide risk) allowed me to 'splurge' on the beautiful organic nectarines. Of course, if the price difference isn't so large- I always choose the organic option but the list helps me prioritize and therefore I can get MORE for my money! :)

Also, from what I remember from reading the information at the EWG site, these 'clean 15' aren't necessarily cleaner just because they hold less pesticide residue after they've been sprayed, etc, but also because some of them simply don't require the pesticides to be used in the first place due to their structure. Back to the onion-- think of all the layers of skin it develops, or, the avocado skin- a NATURAL, built-in pest repellent. It makes sense! (at least to me)

I spent many years avoiding lovely fruits and veggies because they weren't 'organic' and I was a purist and only wanted the best, the purest, etc. I have come to realize that there are many other factors involved. Many small, local farmers use organic techniques but can't afford the organic certification. I want to support them!!! Conversely, many organic fruits and veggies are being grown by the corporate industrial mega-farms that put profits before health, who only started growing organic because there was money to be made, not because of love for the earth or their fellow man. I just think there must be better 'energy' coming from the former even without the organic label.