The cost of it all, and uncertain how to handle this situation....

[T-Bird]

Hi All,

Hoping for some insight or words of comfort or wisdom here.....

So - since the beginning of this year, I've gone all raw, and probably about 90% organic, too. My house is absolutely overflowing with fruit and greens at all times! Running out is not an option - ok - it happened once or twice, and it is not a good thing. I will go hungry before breaking my streak of 100%.

Of course - this dedication - it comes with a fairly hefty price tag, and I know some of you have wrestled with this price too. But I honestly believed that I was on the verge (or in the middle of! I don't go to drs much) a very serious illness and had to, for once, put my health above other considerations. As a single mom of many years - I am way too used to putting myself on the bottom wrung of priorities.....

Soooooooo - the issue:
DD has become friends with a girl from school. This girl has to keep charge of her younger sister while the mother works, and so the poor 9 yo has to be drug around with these 2 teens all day long. They are fudging things with the school district to stay in this school, they live too far away. So now the girl is all attached to the kids at school and takes the bus over to our neighborhood all the time.

These are nice, rather neglected girls and I like them, especially the younger one. I've enjoyed having them at the house and have made them green smoothies and introduced them to some other raw stuff. DD tell me they only get cheap meat and junk food at home, and it's a bit surprising how they seem to like my stuff. :)

I was very happy to make them some wholesome foods, and it was good for DD to see others happily eating my new raw cuisine too. I've even taken the younger sister with me so the older one can be a little free, and the younger one can relax a little.

The problem is that these girls are commuting to our neighbor daily and don't go home till 9 p.m. - sometimes later. With nothing to eat all day......except my food. The other day, the older one went straight into the fridge and was just like "ooooooooooh raspberries" and proceeded to take them out to eat. Raspberries are one of the priciest things I allow myself, and had gotten it for something special I like to make - a raw vegan yogurt for breakfast or post workout snack.

I felt at that point I needed to start setting some limits on this situation that seemed to be about to burst out of control on me.

I can't afford to feed 2 additional children organic fruits all summer long....

It was a huge financial sacrifice to switch to a mainly organic diet for me and my 2 children. It has greatly impacted my pocketbook, but I believe it is the right thing to do.

Yesterday - I got home and they were all in the house. we're having a heat wave here in Chicago, and I was cranky and tired - and we have no air con. I warned DD up front that I wasn't going to be able to drive these kids home like I had been doing most of last week.

Now - I know that we are way better off financially than these kids. But I'm far from being rich, and my 100 yo house needs a lot of expense work and improvements that I'm trying to save up for. I was making progress in that account till I went all organic!!!

I can see that their mother probably doesn't take the interest and care in them that I do with mine. I'm happy to have them over occasionally and enjoy feeding them, talking with them, and driving them home and being a positive influence in their lives.

I just can't take on the responsibility and expense of it everyday.

But I felt just terrible last night not driving them home. And just the thought of barring them from my fridge makes me feel guilty.

Any thoughts or words of comfort?

[snoops]

That's a tough situation. I think you are a saint for what you've done so far. I don't think I would be as generous. I know it's not the kids fault but I used to get quite ticked when kids spent inordinate amounts of time at my place when my son was young. And using the fridge like it was their own.

Could you buy non organic, cheaper things for when they are over? Not as good for them but probably better than they are getting at home. I think you should talk to the mother and tell them how happy you are to help but you need help if you are going to be feeding them. I know that is easier to say than to do. I probably wouldn't be able to do it. I avoid confrontation like the plaque. But then maybe she would be OK with that. She seems to be trying to do the best for them by keeping them in a different school district.

At very least nicely explaining to the kids that the fridge is off limits unless they ask. That maybe those raspberries were for a special recipe you were going to make and so they need to at least ask.

Good luck. You HAVE to do something though or it will wear you down and weigh on you.

[RaeVynn]

I understand.
For us, it's grown kids that don't actually live here anymore, that occasionally will come by. I love to feed them raw stuff, but sometimes when I'm not home, and they are visiting, (one kid still lives at home), they will dip into my dehydrated goodies! Arrgg! It isn't just the cost, it's also the time involved in making them, for me.
You might have a talk with your own kids, and mention that some of the stuff in the fridge is "ingredients", and therefore off limits. Perhaps have a couple of things labeled in there that is for sharing?
Around our house, the bananas are always available for sharing (I don't bother with organic bananas, as they are low on the list), and everyone knows that the figs WILL NOT BE TOUCHED! :p
As much produce as you are going through (don't we all?), have you looked into alternative sources of your greens and fruit? like CSA membership, farmers markets, and food co-ops? That could help with the costs.
I'm growing a bunch of greens... amazing how little space it takes!

[Irish_Vegan_Girl]

This sounds like a very delicate situation. You want to help them but you can't afford to let them eat all your food, to put it bluntly. I really don't know what to say.. Well done for making the sacrifice for your family to go organic and keeping it up!!

I think that you should continue to engage with these kids as you are but maybe take the subject up with your daughter, tell her what you told us here, explain sympathetically that you really can't afford to be feeding them too all summer. The occasional treat or meal here and there is fine, but they are over at yours a lot and that it's just not feasible.

I don't have any other advice for you as I have never been put in this situation and as I don't have kids myself/amn't funding my food/am not mostly organic et cetera I don't think that I can compare it to anything even. I'm sorry that i can't be of more help to ya but good luck anyway and keep us posted. I hope you find the right decision. :) (((hugs)))

[Dimond]

Maybe you can create a section of the fridge (such as a bin) that is just for them only and let them know they they can only eat what is in there. You can word it as nice as possible and ask them their favorites. Then fill it up with inexpensive conventional food. Also you can try to put some of the organic items in more hidden areas or in containers. You can possibly even explain that you're on a limited budget if you think that would help them understand better.

[T-Bird]

Could you buy non organic, cheaper things for when they are over? Not as good for them but probably better than they are getting at home.

I've thought of this.....just not sure how it would work. I want my DD eating organic, so it would be kind of harsh to for DD to be eating the organic ones and giving the "poisonous" ones to her friends!

But maybe I could only buy the fruits lower on the pesticide list for her to share....I'll need to think on the logistics a bit more, this is probably doable.....


Around our house, the bananas are always available for sharing (I don't bother with organic bananas, as they are low on the list), and everyone knows that the figs WILL NOT BE TOUCHED!

Another good idea, thanks!


As much produce as you are going through (don't we all?), have you looked into alternative sources of your greens and fruit? like CSA membership, farmers markets, and food co-ops? That could help with the costs.

Thanks for the reminder! Just checked and this sat is the first delivery from my CSA! Yay! Although - It's not the greens and cukes that are flying out the fridge...it's the strawberries and cherries - I don't think that's included in the CSA stuff!

I have already put together a pretty labor intensive produce shopping routine based on proximity and price so that I can get the best deal on all the items.....and actually shop as little as possible!:p

[RawKnitster]

Lots of good advice from everyone already. I like the idea of talking to your daughter about it, setting up a bin of foods that your daughter can feed guests from. And getting to know their Mother. Not necessarily asking for support in the first conversation, but finding out how she feels about her kids visiting. If you can't bring them home, how late does she want them taking the bus. And what kind of foods does she prefer they eat. I'm probably dreaming but maybe she will say they can bring their own lunch.

You may also want to schedule a few days that they don't come over, so you can have some time with your daughter.

I would only allow it to continue for the summer. When school starts again it is over. Between school, homework, and down time there isn't that much time left for hanging out. If they want to get together after school to do homework, maybe, but only if they get the homework done and go home before dinner. Other than that once a week, and an occassional sleepover on school holidays is enough.

Having a 15 year old I can symphathize with your dilemma. I do as much as I can for my daughter's friends, but set rules when needed to keep my space and sanity.

This past month my brother has been staying with us while he looks for a job. He asked if he could go on a raw cleansing and weight loss diet while here. After a couple weeks of sharing my smoothies and organic foods I had to make some changes. I told him my little CSA box would not support us both and I didn't want to be responsible for fixing his every meal. I found a Cash & Carry Foodservice store that has the cheapest prices and bought him his own bags of non-organic oranges, apples, bananas, and spinach. Other than that he has to ask me before he helps himself to anything. If it is something I want for myself, I have no problem suggesting he eat something else. My speaking up worked so well, he even goes out and buys things for all of us to share.

Your a kind and generous woman. I hope you find a solution you are comfortable with. :)

[RawKnitster]

Oops, I just read your last post about feeding them non-organic. I'm not 100% organic myself so that is not such a big problem for me. I try to be as organic as possible, but do make compromises based on price and availability.

[T-Bird]

Oops, I just read your last post about feeding them non-organic. I'm not 100% organic myself so that is not such a big problem for me. I try to be as organic as possible, but do make compromises based on price and availability.

I'm pretty ok with things with big peels/rinds - like pineapple, watermelon, bananas avocados....

Funny thing is - those are usually the easiest to grow organic, so available and price differential not so much.

One thing I've decided....is that I'm not going to be making my usual charitable contributions, I'm going to feed these kids instead, as much as I can.

Peta and Farm sanctuary will have to wait for fall.....the kids will be in school and I'm sure these 2 get the free breakfast/lunch deal...

Maybe just a little money to farm sanctuary....economy is down, and those pigs eat a lot!

DD says the almost lost their apt this month.....so I wouldn't talk to the mom about any of this. Last time I sent a few items of food home with them......

I could also provide PB&J and jewel bread, although it makes me feel like a total hypocrite! LOL!

[RawKnitster]

Your a jewel. :)

[ruffsongraw]

i think the idea of creating an area of the fridge for the kids to snack on is good and just be frank and honest with them. even 9 is old enough to understand that most ppl have financial limitations. it IS exp to go raw and organic (especially at first i am told. but it's not gotten much cheaper for me after 6months!). i would tell them you like to have them hang out but that you plan your grocery list around a budget that is kinda tight.
kids aren't stupid and i think GENTLE, kind, honesty is something they both respect AND "get". then end that with "here is the area of fridge i will keep stuff that i get just for you kids and am not planning a recipe or meal around."
goodluck. it's not an easy sitch. : /
poor girls.

jen

[PeachyLove]

We rarely get to experience our contributions first hand, I pray a solution happens, that benefits all.

I believe you will be blessed for your acts of love.

[pixie_333]

you're an angel!

do you know they will always remember you for it? and if by chance they aren't showing appriciation.. they will look back upon this with love.

i feel when one does good we get back in return 3 times fold. do bad and get it back 10 times fold.
nobody should be rewarded for doing love and light per say.. but it's that energy that just often grabs/attracts it unexpectedly.
perhaps your energy will attract another kind person and give you a good deal on repairs etc you've been saving up for. maybe everything will balance or even be cheaper than expected. if not with this.. maybe something else in your life. just remain positive and know the universe will take care of you.

i think you got some great advice here... and since you can't really afford it... why not try the non organic or organic on sale. perhaps ask the stores if they can give a discount on stuff they're about to take off the shelf. and/or explain to the manager what's going on. he may have a heart too. and if you don't like serving non organic you can always change what you serve. but limits are important. if someone is invading your space you need to set rules. and alone time too or just family time.

i sure hope the kids aren't being neglected. but i got allowance money in school. my parents assumed i was taken care of with the money i had or the parents i visited. when they came here we fed them. can your daughter go to their place? they don't need babysitters. perhaps pack a lunch for your daughter only to take over there. just an idea.

[cathyinontario]

I like the idea of a separate bin with things they can help themselves to. I would also use the crisper of the fridge for the totally off limits items and even go so far as put a "do not touch" label on the drawer.
It sounds like the girls have a bit of a sweet tooth if they are only going for the strawberries and cherries. Why not keep little snack sized baggies of raisins and dates and other naturally sweet items that they can snack on to sooth that sweet craving. They may be more satisfied to then only touch the apples or oranges that are less expensive.
Just a thought.

[RawHeaven]

t-bird, i don't really have anything else to share...it's been covered.

just wanted to say!....

it takes a village to raise a child.

and you're demonstrating beautiful lady.

you ARE demonstratin'.

Peace!

[Soose]

T-bird, this situation is familiar, from both sides. When I was young, I would visit a friend's family. We would also have friends who hung out at our house. Some of them stressed that by never going home. Not all of us were at the same financial situation.

Several have already applauded the generosity. So I'll focus my comments on respecting your own limitations, setting some boundaries, with the goal of practicing self care for your family. Take what you want and leave the rest!

One thing I'd share with you is that I was always most comfortable when my friends' parents were clear about their house rules, including about foods that were free to eat, but also about setting limits for visiting hours. Very simple and clear statements (without excuses) work with my child's friends as well:

"You'll need to go home before suppertime today."
" You gals will need to head home before the last bus today; I can't take you home."
" The budget is really tight this month; when ya'll hang out, you'll need to pack your lunch."
"If ya'll want a snack, the apples are on the counter; the fridge is off limits for my menu planning and meal prep."

I know you want your daughter to eat only organic; the idea of having non-organic options that you don't mind her eating while her friends eat is good. (Baby organic carrots are a staple here, something we can find cheap. And bananas. Make a short list that is "free for all" and limit access to the others. When the snacks for the day are gone, they're gone. Hungry kids will go home to dinner.)

If you and your daughter really want the girls to feel at home and part of the family, you could have the family conference with all of them, while they're there, if they are part of the family they should help with family concerns.

"The food budget is really tight." Brainstorm with them and lead them to compromises like some fruit out on the table but the fridge being off limits.

"I'd like to be able to plan recipes and for that I need to be able to manage and predict the foods in the fridge." Lead them to the thought of any special snacks you buy for your own purposes being off limits.

"I can provide ___. Everyone will need to start providing their own lunch. You girls will need to help out by bringing a lunch when you visit, unless I am planning something for everyone." If they only have pb and jelly sandwiches, then your dd can have something similar for herself for lunch.

Keep it matter of fact. You know the girls and your daughter best and whether this would work with them -- if the other girls are likely to respect limits and pitch in. Being treated like family in someone else's household is a privilege they won't want to lose, hopefully.

Limiting the visiting hours will also limit the actual meals you are providing. Then, you will be free to be generous when you do have room to be within your limitations, maybe a couple of times in the week and planned ahead:

"Girls, we would be pleased if you could stay for dinner tomorrow tonight. I'm going to make something special. And ya'll can watch that movie you wanted afterwards. Tell your mom I'll take you home for that if she agrees to you staying over."

At the same time, there is nothing wrong with saying to the girls, "We need a little quiet family time here tomorrow. There are things we have to take care of. A break is in order. Why don't we see you Friday?"

Make sure your daughter understands your family goals (like the house repairs) and the budget, helps create the house rules and is willing to comply with them. I'm sure she wants the best for her friends; and she has to accept both families have limitations. Ultimately, ya'll can be good friends but you can't raise someone else's kids, nor provide for their full support and still take care of your own family.

[A note: My mom always made sure I did not stress someone else's limits. If we went on a trip with other families or an outing, she always offered to contribute to the food budget. If we were staying too long, she told us to stay home more, saying "they need their family time." I've noticed most of my son's friends parents are not as considerate as I learned to be. ]

Few of us can do it all. Don't underestimate the other less tangible goods ya'll are providing that won't stress your budget -- friendship, a parental presence, an example of a stable family environment, modeling good health.

Oh, and another thought. Perhaps the other mom has some ideas about her girls being continuously over at your house, and while it's convenient for child care and relieves her budget, she might actually mind it for various reasons. It would be fair for your daughter to do at least some of the visiting and let them play hostess. [Your daughter can take her lunch, too.]

Also, you'll be modeling setting limits and respecting boundaries to your own daughter. And to her friends!

HTH, and ignore what doesn't work for you! :)

[MelanieC]

Wow - You are an angel. everyone has given such great advice. I hope things get easier for you.