Minerals Are Very Important-esp with large amt fruit

[Dimond]

Minerals from greens/other: Greens, celery, sea weed, green powders/liquids are often very important to consume along with large amounts of fruit. This helps balance out the sugar and allows you to eat a large amount even if you have sugar issues normally. If you see obvious affects of it, definitely have some minerals with each fruit meal. Doesn't usually need to be a lot-like a shot or so of a green powder mixed with water or juice or a couple of spoonfuls, E3Live, blend a handful or 2 of fresh greens into a juice or smoothie, etc. A concentrated form is good for quick, portable use such as Ocean's Alive Marine Phytoplankton or you can chew on spirulina or chlorella tablets. Even sprinkling some kelp powder can work. Green juices are definitely the best form of minerals. Others may not need as much, though it can be beneficial.

[Veronica01]

There is no problem with eating large amounts of fruit sugar. It only becomes a problem if its eaten with a large amount of fat and the body cannot metabolize it. Greens are important for minerals regardless, but not necessary more so if you are eating more fruit than nuts.

[Dimond]

They are for me and many others. Many long-term raw foodists like Matt Monarch agree. Also I mention for most, not everyone.

[Seedy]

It is possible to get too much sugar, even from fruit. Even assuming that your cells are free from fat and insulin can do its job, there's only so much sugar the body needs at any one time. Excess can get stored in muscles as glycogen, but unless you exercise it out, there's going to come a point where the body has had enough. At that point the sugar will be converted to triglycerides and stored as fat.
Seedy

[T-Bird]

It is possible to get too much sugar, even from fruit. Even assuming that your cells are free from fat and insulin can do its job, there's only so much sugar the body needs at any one time. Excess can get stored in muscles as glycogen, but unless you exercise it out, there's going to come a point where the body has had enough. At that point the sugar will be converted to triglycerides and stored as fat.
Seedy

Does that mean eating 2 lbs of cherries for dinner yesterday was a bad idea?:D

I got another pound at home......if the kids haven't had em - you know what I'm doing!

I had a salad for dessert! Does that help??:p

[Veronica01]

How can you say you can get too much sugar? Everything we eat we break down into glucose to feed our cells. Whether its fruit sugar, starch from veggies, greens, fat, protein, all of it is broken down into glucose as that is the only thing that feeds living cells.

I have never ever heard of a primate eating too much fruit, or any bird eating too much fruit. Thats not to say that any person or any mammal should only eat fruit, but i highly doubt the amounts of fruit that people eat would ever be too much. Most people are still accustomed to eating fruit as a snack instead of a meal like other primates anyways.

I'd like to see examples of healthy people not consuming large amounts of fat, that have issues with sugar.

PS. when the body is getting sufficient calories or even a little in excess from fruit it does not store it as fat. I have not gained an ounce and i eat predominantly fruit. I have gradually slimmed down and lost body fat and water with detoxing.

[supersonic_528]

They are for me and many others. Many long-term raw foodists like Matt Monarch agree. Also I mention for most, not everyone.

Yes I also think eating too much sugar from fruits may not be good. Just because you are getting all this sugar from raw fruits doesn't make it good. I will never go with a 80-10-10 diet. I read Susan Schenck's book (which she wrote after a lot of research) and she too says that it's not right.

[RaeVynn]

For myself, I like what Victoria Boutenko has written about fruits vs greens in her book, Green For Life. I find that I do feel better if I get a green smoothie or two into my day, rather than just eat fruit (though, I've done the couple of pounds of cherries for dinner thing, too! :p )

She has done some extensive research into what primates actually eat, and they tend to eat quite a lot of leaves, not just fruit.

[Dimond]

I never said you shouldn't eat a lot of fruit or that it's wrong. Just pointing out that minerals from greens and other sources are beneficial to your health to balance out the sugars and to counteract any issues high fruit may cause. For example there's been a couple of times I've had fruit only in moderate quantities and found I would get extremely fatigued to the point I'd have to take a nap. I normally am very high energy so this was unusual for me. I figured out when I consumed greens in some form, it would stop me from feeling tired. This is just one example. Those sensitive to sugar, have candida, etc. can also try this. Everyone is different and not every one way of eating is right for everyone.

[supersonic_528]

How can you say you can get too much sugar? Everything we eat we break down into glucose to feed our cells. Whether its fruit sugar, starch from veggies, greens, fat, protein, all of it is broken down into glucose as that is the only thing that feeds living cells.


But when there is excess sugar, it will be stored as fat in the cells. Even in the SAD world, why do you think they (that is, the people following healthy SAD, if there is such a thing ;) ) ask not to have too much sugary food? Whatever the source is, in the end it's sugar.
Also, does everything really break down to glucose in our body? I mean our cells do have proteins and fats too in them. I'm not an expert, so someone pls correct me if I'm wrong :)

[Seedy]

"Your body transforms the carbohydrates you eat into glucose to be used for energy by your cells. Once the cells have what they need, the excess glucose is sent back to your liver and converted to glycogen. Glycogen can then be stored in your muscles.

Once you've reached your capacity of glycogen, excess glycogen is sent back to your liver again, where it becomes triglycerides, which are stored as fat."

That's biochemistry 101.

Dr. Doug Graham has a saying that you have to "earn your fruit" - that is you need to exercise in order to deplete the muscles of glycogen, so that the glycogen the liver is making from fruit sugar has some place to go.

This isn't so much a problem with a balanced raw diet including lots of vegetables and greens, which is what the original post was saying.

I don't want to get in the middle of the 'fruit wars' that seems to be dividing the raw world. I'm simply pointing out the basic body chemistry in carbohydrate metabolism.

Seedy

P.S. I'm new to posting on this forum, and I can't help but notice a little 'snippiness'. When I try to answer a question, its based on the best science I know. I don't mean to step on anyones toes.

[Veronica01]

OK about Matt Monarch and his views.

He does not reccommend high fruit
He reccommends lots of super foods
He reccommends scaling back portions and eating less to live a longer life
He is either starving or eating some cooked foods because he doesn't get enough calories

I'm sorry, but when you look at nature, primates are eating fruits, greens, insects and few nuts and seeds, so i think sticking to a diet like that AND that makes me feel good makes a lot more sense. Than eating tiny proportions, and falling off the wagon and going to cooked, or starving because you are afraid to eat fruit. That does not make sense. I eat when i'm hungry and i eat enough. I don't see how living off of small quantities of food and focusing on portions and superfoods is something healthy or maneageable in any sense.

Also does no one care about the environmental impact of eating prepackaged bagged food as a staple, instead of composting excess peels from fruits veggies and greens?

And I was never bashing veggies or greens, every mammal gets some form of greens so of course it makes sense. I am commenting on your too much sugar comment. What is too much sugar? Eating in excess so you feel sick? I don't know anyone that can overeat on raw fruits and keeps doing this on purpose... we have hunger signals and fullness triggers as well.

[Dimond]

Yes, I agree. This thread wasn't started to debate over fruit or 80-10-10, but to help others who also have fruit sensitivities. No one can dispute the fact that this is an issue for some people regardless of how well you're eating.

[RawKnitster]

Love, LOVE, LOVE greens. The more fruits I eat, which is a lot this time of year, the more greens I feel the need for.

And it is so easy to get them. I chose from lettuces, kales, chards, spinach, celery, cucumber (w/skins), Vitamineral Green, Spirulina, kelp powder, wheat grass powder, chlorella. Dulse is the only sea veggie I can handle, not green but has lots of minerals including iodine.

I may eat a pound of cherries or baskets of strawberries, or 3 nectarines for a meal. I may have a raw dessert for a meal. I may even go a day without any greens, but not often, and only one day. The next day I will be pounding down the greens and green powders to make up for it. Otherwise I feel odd, out of balance and out of sorts. For whatever reason, my body is telling me to eat lots of greens. So I do. :D



Veronica, For the record, I'm only saying how it is for me. I am in no way, shape, or form criticizing your need to eat the way that is best for you. More power to you for finding what works for you.

[T-Bird]

Seedy -

I appreciate your posts!

I come from a science background - social science, but I know how to read and critique studies.

I too have struggled with trying to communicate with those who don't differentiate between a published opinion and empirical findings. And certainly don't trouble themselves to question empirical findings based on methodology, let alone question someone's 'intuitive' theory of how it all works!

[Veronica01]

I often wonder if it is really to anyone's benefit other than your own when you always post after me and take shots at the way I eat in general.

I think it is better that people have an abundance of information, rather than being confused and staying in the "eat whatever you want as long as it's raw". Most people coming to this site are looking for information and most of the stuff posted here is a little one sided and I am just trying to show that you can be healthy and happy eating fruit and not being afraid of it.

You are mentioning that you are scientific and look at science behind everything, but before science there was nature, no processed foods, no importing super foods, so why is it so dangerous or crazy to give a natural approach some merit without analyzing it to death with modern science that has skewed the rest of the worlds thinking into fragmented ideas. Science in itself is fragmented. You can only test things you are looking for, you cannot analyze a diet, a food, a plant without looking for something specific and having an angle.

So I think even science in moderation with common sense is a lot more open and beneficial than eating up every packaged product or raw version of SAD food and then perpetuating the idea to newcomers that is the right way of raw. It is more than that, it can be a transition, or a treat, or comfort, but it doesn't have to be only one way. I've often seen posts that you are unhappy with weight and weight loss and you write off everything i say and make little comments. It's all a choice what you put in your body. You get out what you put into it. I love to eat, and i overate on SAD all the time, i know this, so when i go raw and can eat all the fruit salad and veggies that i want, feel amazing and get down to an ideal weight, i think i'm going to be happy about it and share it. Maybe it can help someone else. I'm only trying to balance out the fear of fruit as an example, there's no need to write off my opinion because of your own fears of giving up comfort foods, nor is anyone forcing you to do anything. It's all about choice. And you can make better choices being informed.

[RawKnitster]

Yes, most of the stuff posted here is one-sided. Under the title of the forum it says "A raw food community based on Alissa Cohen's Living on Live Food Book + DVDs". That is the main focus of this forum.

It is good to have you here showng that you can be healthy and happy eatinig fruit and not be afraid of it. However, more often than not I read your posts as negative and challenging. Go ahead and tell us what you think, but a little less condemnation of other's choices would be nice. I'd like to read your reasons for not eating vinegar without being told I'm drinking poison. And bringing up the weight loss issue. Low blow, woman.

[Veronica01]

I'm not taking any low blows, i never even said anything on her posts about it. I'm just saying I remember reading about it. I'm not here to instigate. But this is the first forum that comes up when you type in raw diet forum... honestly there are so many people that come here that have no idea who Alissa is or what gourmet raw food is. Just because it is Alissa's forum, doesn't mean that most of the new questions posted on here have anything to do with her book. So why not answer them? Alissa makes a great number of sales on new people buying her book as well anyways, so that's great.

Also if you would like to read about vinegar, here is an article taken from natural hygeine about fermented foods, one of which is vinegar if you're interested.

http://www.rawfoodexplained.com/fermented-foods/the-harmful-effects-of-fermented-foods.html

I just find it funny when people are preaching or condemning others when they are not yet at the health or physique they want to be. I am really attracted to the lifestyle of fit active vegans because i want to aspire to be like that. Doug Graham is just that, he doesn't sell any food products or mentor clubs to join or try to profit off other people. Taking it back to nature and natural hygeine does not have any ulterior motives and is mostly common sense. I see nothing wrong in that having some validation as well.

[RawKnitster]

That is an interesting site. I put it in my raw favorites to look into on a rainy day, (probably later this week). Thanks.

[Celeryhead]

It is good to have you here showng that you can be healthy and happy eatinig fruit and not be afraid of it. However, more often than not I read your posts as negative and challenging. Go ahead and tell us what you think, but a little less condemnation of other's choices would be nice. I'd like to read your reasons for not eating vinegar without being told I'm drinking poison. And bringing up the weight loss issue. Low blow, woman.

Well, just from reading this thread I’d say T-Bird took the first shot. Moreover, your post is, itself, quite insulting, and I find it odd that you don’t follow your own advice on another thread complaining about the sniping on this forum, in which you stated: "Like attracts like, so like snoops said, "Don't buy into it. Search out the positive and ignore the negative."

[T-Bird]

Well, just from reading this thread I’d say T-Bird took the first shot.


How did I get involved in this? I posted a shout out to seedy.

Are you assuming Veronica was addressing me?

That's laughable as I haven't even commented on anything she's posted here....

Can someone clue me on what is going on?!?!?

[Veronica01]

I really have no hostility for anyone, nor have i ever insulted someone on here. I want to come here to share information, experiences, recipes... etc but i don't sit around trying to take shots at specific people after each of their posts... I usually ignore it. But it's getting childish now, T Bird made a comment on another thread about "don't talk about nuts to Veronica" just to put in her snide remark and when i called her on it she pretended to ignore me. This all started because i wasn't as outraged as she was about the american government forcing the pasteurization of nuts and didn't want to get up and fight people about it. Even after saying it's not a daily staple in my diet and I live in Canada and have no say about US products, it didn't matter, the grudge was on because we don't see eye to eye on beliefs. So what? I don't spend my time holding grudges against people and trying to belittle them.


PS. I'm getting sick of this naive game, there was NO other posts in this thread that you could have been directing your negative comments to, and if other people are seeing it as directed to me as well, you can stop with the "can someone clue me in". I've never been hostile to you or nitpicked your posts. Anything helpful i ever say to you is ignored as well. Like the information on the retreat i posted, just trying to share information and you still say nothing. So yes with all of the things added up I think it's safe to say that I seem to bother you.

[RawKnitster]

Well, just from reading this thread I’d say T-Bird took the first shot. Moreover, your post is, itself, quite insulting, and I find it odd that you don’t follow your own advice on another thread complaining about the sniping on this forum, in which you stated: "Like attracts like, so like snoops said, "Don't buy into it. Search out the positive and ignore the negative."

Nobody's perfect. Thanks for the reminder.

[Veronica01]

That is an interesting site. I put it in my raw favorites to look into on a rainy day, (probably later this week). Thanks.

It is interesting, even skimming a few topics I've found pretty helpful when questions about non raw foods with friends and family come up.

[notwell]

Veronica01, seems like u took a perfectly nice thread and turned it into something bad. also interesting that u have only been raw for 2-3 mo and yet u act like u know everything. u dont know if u can even eat lots of fruit for awhile. whereas this topic was pointed out by someone who has been raw for years and maybe has a bit more knowledge and experience.

also cant see how T-Bird has said anything wrong.

man, someone cant even give helpful info without it turning into a debate. :rolleyes: :(

great thread anyhow.

[T-Bird]

T Bird made a comment on another thread about "don't talk about nuts to Veronica" just to put in her snide remark and when i called her on it she pretended to ignore me.

That was intended as just a friendly comment as someone mentioned nuts to you and you are always down on nuts. If you "called" me on it like you did here - I obviously had no idea you were addressing me at that particular point. I certainly had NO clue you didn't take it in the friendly manner in which it was intended and were festering on about it. Or that we are apparently having a 'feud' - or that I am


always post after me and take shots at the way I eat in general.

Please believe me when I say that I certainly have no interest in such a thing and you can rest assured that my generic comments to other posters in the past and most certainly in the future have nothing to do with you.

On this particular thread, I addressed a comment of camaraderie to seedy (with their name clearly in the post) who seemed to seek and process info in the same way I do, and look for the same type of criteria before giving credence to something as I do, etc. etc. and to be struggling in discussions with people who do not seek/process info in that manner.

I fail to see how this is a commentary on your personal food choices, particularly as I was not endorsing any type of eating at all.

As I plan to never address this issue again - I would also like to take this opportunity to point out to you that you have no clue as to what my food choices are. I see in your post that you make many assumptions on what I'm eating and while I don't know why you've made them, they are wrong.

Looks like you've edited your post, but I saw what was there before. I'll have nothing to say to you in the future, and would appreciate the same courtesy.

[Dimond]

:eek: :confused: Eh! My thread!

Off to have some minerals....:D

[T-Bird]

sorry Dimond!

Maybe just forget about this one and start another on the topic....?

[gabriele]

I'm sorry, but when you look at nature, primates are eating fruits, greens, insects and few nuts and seeds, so i think sticking to a diet like that AND that makes me feel good makes a lot more sense.

i think i'm with you on this one. It's logical.

Wow, i just now finished the rest of these posts. don't know what's going on here but i have one teeny tiny little thought, after reading everything: i'm not impressed by "scientific studies" because they are usually funded by drug companies, or worse, governments, or someone else with an agenda not helpful to the original study. Common sense, the study of our closest animal relatives and human anatomy is probably more useful than some "study."

Actually, a second thought: some of these original posts become debates, which i enjoy, actually, because i enjoy hearing the other side even if i don't agree with it, and sometimes i learn something that my mind was completely closed to. We are all here to learn something and i've learned so much from every one of you!!

[RawHemp]

Veronica i think the thing u neglect to realize when u compare us to primates is they exercise basically non stop everyday. Also when was the last time u followed a gorilla/monkey around, you proballey have no idea what they typically eat in a day(i know its usually greens/fruits but u have no idea what type of portions they eat). Another big thing, animals are stupid generally they don't know when they've had to much to eat. O the subject of eating very little, its been proven this is the healthiest way to live, u need to eat just enough food to keep u from dying(and nothing more) to achieve perfect health. I think people can eat as many fruits as they want but unless u balance it with alot of greens your gona have problems down the line.

[Eva]

I haven't gotten a chance to read all the posts, just going to share my experience. :)

For me -- I do find that I have a lot more energy with more greens. Even just having more greens in my green smoothie so there is very little fruit -- WOW! It's super drink mania, makes me feel amazing!!!

But -- generally, I do enjoy fruit whenever I want. But, it's really interesting how my body does actually crave more greens as I do this. Thanks for the post, Dimond!

Ah -- and I've heard GREAT things about E3Live (haven't tried it) but haven't really found the green powders to be better than using organic kale, chard, beet greens, etc. in my smoothies. That's just me. :)

[gabriele]

Veronica i think the thing u neglect to realize when u compare us to primates is they exercise basically non stop everyday. Also when was the last time u followed a gorilla/monkey around, you proballey have no idea what they typically eat in a day(i know its usually greens/fruits but u have no idea what type of portions they eat). Another big thing, animals are stupid generally they don't know when they've had to much to eat. O the subject of eating very little, its been proven this is the healthiest way to live, u need to eat just enough food to keep u from dying(and nothing more) to achieve perfect health. I think people can eat as many fruits as they want but unless u balance it with alot of greens your gona have problems down the line.

At the risk of getting bashed myself, i have to say, humans in their "natural" state also exercised a lot, same as monkeys. Our bodies are meant to move, not sit on the couch all day. And Veronica doesn't really need to follow monkeys around all day since other people have already done that and reported the results!! Which i have read! Finally, to say animals are stupid generally really gets me kind of livid - how did they manage to survive all these generations, in their great stupidity? Actually, it's HUMANS who have lost the knowledge of what to eat, how to eat it, and how much to eat, not animals. Animals living in the wild, away from factory farms and artificial man-made foods know exactly what to eat, otherwise they could not have evolved over the centuries.

[Dimond]

Eva, thanks for bringing positive energy and insight to this discussion. :) Awesome that greens and green supplements work so well for you.

[Veronica01]

Veronica i think the thing u neglect to realize when u compare us to primates is they exercise basically non stop everyday. Also when was the last time u followed a gorilla/monkey around, you proballey have no idea what they typically eat in a day(i know its usually greens/fruits but u have no idea what type of portions they eat). Another big thing, animals are stupid generally they don't know when they've had to much to eat. .

I'd really like to know how you figure that that i am neglecting to know what they are eating on a daily basis (when i never said specifics, i listed food groups) and yet you can make a general statement that animals are STUPID and don't know when they've had enough to eat. You could also read Victoria Boutenko's book Green for Life, in which she has done the research FOR US to ascertain how much of a chimpanzee's diet is fruit, greens and insects. As our DNA is 99% similar to chimpanzees that is why she used them as a reference point to study.

Wow... are you serious? When animals are given an infinite amount of food they don't eat themselves to death, or starve to death, they always know the right amount to eat. They're born with hunger signals and full signals just like every other creature.

I really think people neglect to realize that had we not grown up in a prepackaged industrialized society, we would not be as obese as we are as a people and eating whole foods allows the body to react naturally to them. Triggering you when hungry or full. It's when we go to processed foods that are more calorie dense that our bodies have a hard time realizing we've had enough.

If you don't believe me check out this movie, DVD DOCUMENTARY -LOSING WEIGHT WITHOUT LOSING YOUR MIND ~ Douglas J. Lisle, Ph.D

http://www.drmcdougall.com/store_losing_weight.html

Dr. Lisle goes on to explain two different types of people, ones that always get fullness triggers no matter what they eat, and stay slim relatively the same weight.

and people that depending on what they eat have a harder time feeling full as fast as the previous group and gain weight.

Personally, i know i belong to the second group. It takes me a while to feel full, i always overate on cooked, i will overeat on fatty salads or nut dishes and then a few minutes later be absolutely full and not feel well at all.

He goes on to say that naturally our most calorie dense food was fruit, as it was in abundance. And only now are we filling up on things like cooked starches, breads, nuts, and fats. Our bodies just have not evolved that fast to recognize smaller portions of calorie dense foods against higher portions of water rich low calorie foods.


I think it is very ignorant to make such a statement, when we as humans think that just because we have conscious thought all other animals are stupid and wouldn't even be able to tell the difference between hungry and full.


BTW Dimond, in no way am i trying to discredit your initial intentions for this thread. And I'm sorry that this has come to some sort of debate only loosly related to the original post. But yes I truly believe that greens are important in a healthy raw diet as well and would never discount them

[RawKnitster]

Ah -- and I've heard GREAT things about E3Live (haven't tried it) but haven't really found the green powders to be better than using organic kale, chard, beet greens, etc. in my smoothies. That's just me. :)

Eva, count me as one of the people telling you great things about E3Live. I have found a spoonful of it with a glass of water will keep me going for several hours. I usually take it in the morning when I'm not ready to eat yet, or during the afternoon if I'm hungry and don't have time to eat, or dinner isn't ready yet.

The bottle say "GUARANTEED! If you do not "Feel the Difference" by your own evaluation, we'll refund your purchase price for up to one year. No questions asked."

I won't be asking for the refund. :)

[RawKnitster]

Dimond, thanks for starting the thread. Despite the "Eh" factor it is a great conversation. :)

[Bananna]

I'm confused! 811 recommends 2 Pounds of leafy greens/vegetables per day...or so. Plus he recommends plenty of exercise..."you have to earn your fruit" he's said.

Low calorie is good, but has it been established either way that low calorie and floating around through life like a wafe is better than being athletic? Both in my opinion will leave no calorie unturned so to speak and as far as I have read, no research has flat out investigated the difference with respect to longevity.

Greens balance out blood sugar highs...that is the debate I think, not wether we need greens in abundance or not, that I think is a given. ...honestly, for myself, I have never felt sugar rushes from fruit ie. dizziness, spastic energy, rush followed by a crash. I always feel pretty good....but I do feel like I'm missing something if I don't have greens. I don't know if that's physical or psychological or what....but I don't think it has anything to do with my blood sugar. Although I could easily measure my blood sugar and see!

But I believe Veronica eats quite a lot of greens anyways. I think we do need greens, but am not convinced that it's because of fruit sugar rushes...I've never had a fruit sugar rush...just a nice balanced stream of energy.

[Rufassa]

But when there is excess sugar, it will be stored as fat in the cells. Even in the SAD world, why do you think they (that is, the people following healthy SAD, if there is such a thing ;) ) ask not to have too much sugary food? Whatever the source is, in the end it's sugar.
Is anyone attempting to realize the difference between natural fruit found in an apple and processed white sugar. There is a HUGE difference. If you take a week and eat nothing but foods made with white sugar then yes you will probably pick up a few pounds and not be feeling that great by the end. If you take the next week and eat nothing but fresh sweet fruits plucked from a tree then guess what, you will probably lose a few pounds. Of course a healthier SAD diet avoids processed sugar its poison but a healthier SAD diet also includes a lot of fresh fruits and veggies too.


Another big thing, animals are stupid generally they don't know when they've had to much to eat.
Those "stupid" animals are more intoned with nature and their needs than any of us. They can sense weather changes but you don't think they know when they have had enough to eat. It is us, the human, that will sit and gorge on unnatural foods until it makes us sick but yet be arrogant enough to say that an animal eating its natural food in its natural habitat is stupid.


O the subject of eating very little, its been proven this is the healthiest way to live, u need to eat just enough food to keep u from dying(and nothing more) to achieve perfect health.
I think this was best addressed here:
http://arawconnection.ning.com/forum/topics/why-i-pick-apart-the-programs


I think people can eat as many fruits as they want but unless u balance it with a lot of greens your gonna have problems down the line.
And obviously Veronica, of whom I agree with, thinks that fruit should be the most essential part of a human's diet. It is cool to eat some greens, veggies, and even nuts and seeds but fruit is what I think should be the main staple of a human’s diet.

We all have derived our opinions based on the information we have at hand and our experiences. And none of us can really say that the other is wrong. All I will say about this one is that, "Time tells all tales".

[RawHemp]

First off let me sart by saying it was slightly ignorant of me to call al animals stupid, what i meant by this is animals will pretty much eat whatever/whenever(for the most part) but humans have the power of reasoning and decision making therefore we can always pick the best stuff to eat. Now on to my second point, we are no 99% the same as chimpanzees we are 99% the same as Gorillas! Now that u know that heres a list of the typical gorilla diet, he mountain gorilla diet is mostly plants like celery, nettles, bamboo and thistles, and they are quite particular about what parts of each plant they like to eat. Now it does say they will eat fruit but no where near as often as greens, i think its ignorant to say were supposed to eat mainly fruit for the main fact that most fruit is slightly acidic and over time this will create a toxic condition in your body if u don't eat enough greens (or eat nothing but papayas, figs or oranges :P )

[supersonic_528]

Is anyone attempting to realize the difference between natural fruit found in an apple and processed white sugar. There is a HUGE difference. If you take a week and eat nothing but foods made with white sugar then yes you will probably pick up a few pounds and not be feeling that great by the end. If you take the next week and eat nothing but fresh sweet fruits plucked from a tree then guess what, you will probably lose a few pounds. Of course a healthier SAD diet avoids processed sugar its poison but a healthier SAD diet also includes a lot of fresh fruits and veggies too.


I never compared natural sugar in fruits with processed sugar. What I said is if you take in excess sugar, then even if it is from a healthy source like fruits, it will still get stored as fat. Of course, fruits have a lot of good nutrients to offset the effect of more sugar, whereas processed sugar does not and a large part of it will be stored as fat.

[Veronica01]

First off let me sart by saying it was slightly ignorant of me to call al animals stupid, what i meant by this is animals will pretty much eat whatever/whenever(for the most part) but humans have the power of reasoning and decision making therefore we can always pick the best stuff to eat. Now on to my second point, we are no 99% the same as chimpanzees we are 99% the same as Gorillas! Now that u know that heres a list of the typical gorilla diet, he mountain gorilla diet is mostly plants like celery, nettles, bamboo and thistles, and they are quite particular about what parts of each plant they like to eat. Now it does say they will eat fruit but no where near as often as greens, i think its ignorant to say were supposed to eat mainly fruit for the main fact that most fruit is slightly acidic and over time this will create a toxic condition in your body if u don't eat enough greens (or eat nothing but papayas, figs or oranges :P )

Slightly ignorant? I don't see how we are better off when we use conscious thought to determine what we should eat, than what we would come accross in nature. First of all have you ever sat down and eaten some bamboo or thistles? When I was meaning natural, I mean things that we are naturally attracted to. Gorillas are not FORCING themselves to eat that way, they are naturally drawn to it, or they would stop eating it after the first time. Humans are naturally attracted to sweeter things than bitter. It is often hard to get children to eat anything green that is bitter, versus a sweet ripe fruit. A child who is not ruled by conscious thought in what they eat, nor conditioned by society to eat processed food would always choose sweet over any other flavour. We are drawn to it. I'd like to see your sources for people eating predominantly fruit and greens with little or no overt fats getting toxemia and being sick. Where are these facts to back up your comments? None of the fruits you listed are acidic either.

Maybe you should write a letter to Victoria Boutenko then citing that her research is in fact incorrect. I was only using it as an example, I am not her. But I would tend to put more validity in her life's work of research over yours.


And also I'd like to know where you're getting your information on that you would be TOO ACIDIC when eating fruit and you need greens to alkalize yourself. Take a look at this chart. http://www.greathealth247.com/ph-acid-alkaline-food-chart.html

The ONLY acidifying fruits are:
Blueberries
Canned or Glazed Fruits
Cranberries
Currants
Plums**
Prunes**

ALKALIZING FRUITS
Apple
Apricot
Avocado
Banana (high glycemic)
Berries
Blackberries
Cantaloupe
Cherries, sour
Coconut, fresh
Currants
Dates, dried
Figs, dried
Grapes
Grapefruit
Honeydew Melon
Lemon
Lime
Muskmelons
Nectarine
Orange
Peach
Pear
Pineapple
Raisins
Raspberries
Rhubarb
Strawberries
Tangerine
Tomato
Tropical Fruits
Umeboshi Plums
Watermelon

So please stop with the BS that we need greens to alkalize ourselves and control our blood sugar levels. We need greens because of minerals, because they're water rich, alkalizing etc. Not to counteract the "negative" effects of fruit. Also by weight, water content and calorie, greens are pretty much neglible in percentage when compared to fruit. I'd like to see someone actually wanting to, let alone be able to live on a higher percentage of greens than fruit, (without gourmet raw, processed stuff etc) and get enough calories. It just isn't possible. No other animals live on a starvation diet. If you choose to, then all the power to you. But blatantly posting that people need to eat only enough to survive is quite ignorant and does not serve anyone when it is just a statement, with nothing to back it up.


Perhaps it would be good to note that along with meat, dairy, alcohol, condiments that are all acidic, many RAW people are eating grains, fats, beans, and corn, olives, nut butters, vinegar all of which is acidic.

So if there was any concern over who's diet is more acidic or alkaline I don't think I have to state the obvious. I can definitely see why people reccommend greens in a raw diet, especially if it contains all those acidifying items, but to say you need greens to alkalize yourself from acidic fruits is just not true.

[Stina]

First off let me sart by saying it was slightly ignorant of me to call al animals stupid, what i meant by this is animals will pretty much eat whatever/whenever(for the most part) but humans have the power of reasoning and decision making therefore we can always pick the best stuff to eat. Now on to my second point, we are no 99% the same as chimpanzees we are 99% the same as Gorillas! Now that u know that heres a list of the typical gorilla diet, he mountain gorilla diet is mostly plants like celery, nettles, bamboo and thistles, and they are quite particular about what parts of each plant they like to eat. Now it does say they will eat fruit but no where near as often as greens, i think its ignorant to say were supposed to eat mainly fruit for the main fact that most fruit is slightly acidic and over time this will create a toxic condition in your body if u don't eat enough greens (or eat nothing but papayas, figs or oranges :P )

Oh, poor RawHemp, sometimes I too haven't chosen my words as wisely as I meant to too. Thank God for the people who still love me and support me and don't attack me for occasionally putting my big feet in my mouth. Now there will be a debate about eating feet........................

By the way, there's something about the make-up of my brain that doesn't utilize more than a minimum of fruit sugar. I get irritable.

Sometimes my Internet manners aren't perfect. But I'm learning to practice tolerance towards those whose views differ from my own and ignore those who pick mine apart.

Peace to all!

[gabriele]

Interestingly, i just stumbled across an article that suggests that the latest evidence is that humans are more closely related to orangutans than gorillas or chimpanzees. (just shows you that nobody really knows)

Apparently, orangutans eat 60% of their food as fruits, and they eat 300 different kinds of fruits (can you imagine?), the rest being bark, shoots, and some insects. And the article says they spend 60% of their daylight hours looking for food. That makes sense because these foods don't have a lot of calories, so you would be spending your whole day looking for something to eat.

[Rufassa]

... what i meant by this is animals will pretty much eat whatever/whenever(for the most part) but humans have the power of reasoning and decision making therefore we can always pick the best stuff to eat.
Have you ever watched a nature show and seen a lion eating leaves out of a tree, or a turtle trying to drink the lactation of a rat, a vegetarian alligator or a carnivorous giraffe? Have you ever seem a human think they must drink the lactation of a cow in order to thrive? What are you basing this on. Animals eat much closer to their natural anatomy than humans do. The only exceptions being domesticated animals (of which I guess you think humans are smart enough to think for) and animals that have seen their natural habitat drastically changed (In most cases by humans).


Now on to my second point, we are no 99% the same as chimpanzees we are 99% the same as Gorillas! Now that u know that heres a list of the typical gorilla diet, he mountain gorilla diet is mostly plants like celery, nettles, bamboo and thistles, and they are quite particular about what parts of each plant they like to eat. Now it does say they will eat fruit but no where near as often as greens …


There is a huge flaw in your argument. You picked the one species of gorilla that lives in a habitat with very little fruit. But you are correct. The mountain gorilla doesn’t eat that much fruit. Because if they relied on it then they would starve.

Mountain gorilla (Gorilla beringei beringei):
This subspecies consumes parts of at least 142 plant species and only 3 types of fruit (there is hardly any fruit available due to the high altitude. About 86% of their diet is leaves, shoots, and stems, 7% is roots, 3% is flowers, 2% is fruit, and 2% ants, snails, and grubs.

I could easily prove my argument by using this species.


Western lowland gorilla (Gorilla gorilla gorilla):
This subspecies consumes parts of at least 97 plant species. About 67% of their diet is fruit, 17% is leaves, seeds and stems and 3% is termites and caterpillars.

http://www.seaworld.org/animal-info/info-books/gorilla/diet.htm


i think its ignorant to say were supposed to eat mainly fruit for the main fact that most fruit is slightly acidic and over time this will create a toxic condition in your body if u don't eat enough greens (or eat nothing but papayas, figs or oranges :P )
Where do you get this from? Look at this chart and count the number of acid forming fruit versus alkaline fruits. Please cite.
http://www.angelfire.com/az/sthurston/acid_alkaline_foods_list.html


I say again. I think one thing, you think another but I will not venture to say that your statements are ignorant just because I disagree with them. I have exposed a few statements that you have made that show lack of knowledge (i.e. most fruits being acid); My statements are not ignorant you are just being arrogant about your position; which could quite frankly be wrong:cool:.

[Rufassa]

By the way if you want to go with the argument that "if this one species of gorilla eats mostly leaves then we as people should eat exactly like them," then I can show you a primate that eats meat; cannibal even. Does that mean that Jeffrey Dahmer might have been on to something? But as a whole most primates have a diet that is high in fruit but this doesn’t mean that their aren’t any deviations from this.

Chimpanzee diets are composed mainly of ripe fruits but vary according to the time of the year and abundance of specific food items.
http://www.honoluluzoo.org/chimpanzee.htm

The lar gibbon has a diet that predominately consist of sugary fruits.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_natural_diet_of_a_lar_gibbon

Woolly monkeys in Yasuní were predominantly frugivorous, with fruits comprising ca. 77% of the yearly diet;
http://www.cababstractsplus.org/abstracts/Abstract.aspx?AcNo=20043123751


Apparently, orangutans eat 60% of their food as fruits, and they eat 300 different kinds of fruits (can you imagine?), the rest being bark, shoots, and some insects.

I could do this all day but everyone here gets the point.

[Rufassa]

I never compared natural sugar in fruits with processed sugar. What I said is if you take in excess sugar, then even if it is from a healthy source like fruits, it will still get stored as fat. Of course, fruits have a lot of good nutrients to offset the effect of more sugar, whereas processed sugar does not and a large part of it will be stored as fat.
And what I am saying is that you want gain an inch just by eating “too much” fruit. As you said fruit has a natural balance of nutrients that help your body utilize it and convert this food into energy. The weight gain you are mentioning happens once you have denatured the food source to the point that it is only, or mostly, sugar. The 811 people I have talked to talk about weight loss not gain. And this is why I asked weather you are confusing the effects of the two. It seems that you are condemning sweet fruits based on the effects of processed sugars and they are not even close to the same.

[Veronica01]

It is true, I know lots of 811 people and even athletes who just aim for lower fat and higher carbs and they never gain weight or fat or water retention. The more fruit I eat the more optimum my body works at detoxing, the influx of fibre and water helps clear out toxins. When there is no fat in your blood stream the glucose goes immediately to feed cells, it does not sit around accumulating. The body is intelligent, it's not designed to hurt itself. When your body is getting everything it needs it will regulate your blood sugar and bring you to an ideal weight, whether you need to gain it or lose it. It's all about giving your body the tools it needs to build, repair and flush out bad cells.

I'd also like to know how one defines "Too much sugar" as no one here has ever giving any sort of information on this.

When you are eating whole natural raw foods, your body will tell you when you've had enough, whether it's the taste on your tongue, the fullness in your stomach or a thought in your head. I have never forced myself to keep eating fruit "cuz I need it". I know i'm done when one of those triggers alert me.

People aren't giving the human body as much credit as it deserves in instinctual intelligence. Every other animal uses it, yet we think our conscious thought can better determine what our body needs or wants. If this is true, then why are we the only beings on Earth that are impacting every other single being on Earth in a NEGATIVE way. If we knew better because of conscious thought, then wouldn't we be doing what was best for us, and our neighbour and the rest of the animals in the world? But we don't. So I suspect our conscious thought really does not innately "know better"

[Veronica01]

Also now I'm wondering what the point of the initial post was in this thread as it was just statements on the benefits of greens. I wasn't aware that Dimond had an online store until now.

[Mikey_H]

hmm, funny thing... this is a topic I've been contemplating for a while now, but when it all comes down to it I feel SO much better when I eat mostly fruit.
I'm beginning to learn just to listen to myself only, of course alongside obvious dietary suggestions (not overdoing nuts, oils, salt, vinegars, etc etc).

It makes sense to me that our CURRENT species homo sapiens is naturally drawn to fruit... even if our ancestors or modern relatives tend to eat bamboo, leaves, etc.
although the health benefits of leafy greens and other veggies is still quite obvious. I think some people just crave veggies more than others. To me, it's about listening to myself. Some days I want all fruit, fruit fruit fruit. I can gut 2 watermelons and be totally satisfied.
But the next day I will want a big salad with a bunch of veggies and avocado. Not to mention I almost always juice myself some fresh celery, carrots, spinach, bell pepper, etc and other combinations, just to get full benefit.
And other times... I just plain and simply crave more fatty foods. I notice as I get more experienced with raw food I have a less desire to overload on nuts... but hey it makes sense that our bodies aren't used to eating too many nuts. I almost always pay the price for it if I do!

I notice when I eat some or a lot of veggies in the same day I have fruit I feel great, often even better than if I have no veggies at all. However if I eat only or mostly veggies I actually feel a lot weaker! It almost makes me crave a bunch of oil and nuts because of non-sufficient calorie intake. And I'm an active person! My body tells me constantly to eat fruit, and always to my benefit.
So the whole "earn your fruit" thing I read earlier, is just plain bogus. Everybody is different, but fruit is the LAST thing anybody needs to worry about. Glucose is the body's MAIN preferred source of energy, that is a fact, and fruit is the best natural source for it. When there is not enough good, simple, natural sugars for the body to utilize it will either go to the fat stores (as raw foodists we naturally have less body fat over time, so we need to retain that good healthy fat that we actually have for organ protection and fat-soluble vitamins:D) or will try to use body protein for energy (not so good, we need that to rebuild muscle and maintain other functions).

But anyway I'm blabbering, everybody here has made very good points about this topic that's been buggin' me previously... balance is good. I must say though, the points about Fruit's benefits made by Veronica and others make most sense to me, fruits are so unbelievably important!

[Veronica01]

I don't think Dr. Graham meant "Earn your fruit" as in you have to work out just to be able to eat some. He meant something to the effect of, if you are eating high quantities of fruit, it will give you energy and you should be expending that energy, not just laying around. He's an athletic performance coach, and advocates for everyone to exercise to be in optimum health. (along with sleep, relaxation, sunshine, fresh air, fresh water etc)

But yes, everything else you said totally resonates with me. :)

[RawKnitster]

Interestingly, i just stumbled across an article that suggests that the latest evidence is that humans are more closely related to orangutans than gorillas or chimpanzees. (just shows you that nobody really knows)

Apparently, orangutans eat 60% of their food as fruits, and they eat 300 different kinds of fruits (can you imagine?), the rest being bark, shoots, and some insects. And the article says they spend 60% of their daylight hours looking for food. That makes sense because these foods don't have a lot of calories, so you would be spending your whole day looking for something to eat.

That must be the same information Victoria Boutenko uses to validate her idea that green smoothies should be 60% fruit and 40% greens.

[Bananna]

Thank you Veronica :)...yes, you can't down piles of fruit and then lay around all day, nor would you feel like it! ...but you said you're an active person anyways, soooo now I'm a bit confused...you eat the fruit, and you're active, but earning your fruit is bogus?

[Gaius]

Minerals from greens/other: Greens, celery, sea weed, green powders/liquids are often very important to consume along with large amounts of fruit. This helps balance out the sugar and allows you to eat a large amount even if you have sugar issues normally. If you see obvious affects of it, definitely have some minerals with each fruit meal. Doesn't usually need to be a lot-like a shot or so of a green powder mixed with water or juice or a couple of spoonfuls, E3Live, blend a handful or 2 of fresh greens into a juice or smoothie, etc. A concentrated form is good for quick, portable use such as Ocean's Alive Marine Phytoplankton or you can chew on spirulina or chlorella tablets. Even sprinkling some kelp powder can work. Green juices are definitely the best form of minerals. Others may not need as much, though it can be beneficial.
This post is the raw equivalent to SAD marketing of "balanced meals".

You simply don't need that many greens in your diet.

[Dimond]

This post is the raw equivalent to SAD marketing of "balanced meals". You simply don't need that many greens in your diet. YOU may not need much greens, but many others including myself, do. "That many greens"-I haven't, at any time, given a specific amount. I gave examples of what some of the many choices are so people can see the wide variety available. Yet everyone has their own needs and preferences. I don't FEEL well on large amounts of fruits, without minerals to balance it. I've tried this many times with the same results. Within 5 minutes of consuming greens/minerals, I feel better. I'm going to continue more experiments with this using a variety of different minerals. So far I think green juices/smoothies and any type of concentrated supplement form seem to work best if I'm trying to correct an issue. But if one already is eating enough minerals, likely all forms will work well.

Too much fruit/sugar is based on how someone feels, how their body reacts, if any health issues reoccur or worsen, etc. It's all very simple, pay attention to how you feel and adjust accordingly.

[Stina]

Well, the most dedicated 80/10/10 person I know, DurianRider, sleeps 12 hours a day. I don't have time for that! Wish I did. My diet with lots of greens gives me optimal energy to go tackle the work world.

[Veronica01]

Yes but Durian Rider also eats 4-7000 calories a day and bikes everywhere most of his day. You'd be tired too if you were expending that much energy every day. He is a top athlete, so you can't compare his lifestyle to yours and say you don't have time to sleep that much and think the fruit will make you tired. I definitely don't have time to sleep that much, but I'm not working out every day for hours on end. But eating fruit no matter how much does not make me tired.