My bodybuilding challenge on Raw...busting the protein myth

[SekhemNefer]

Okay, I am obese. last month I weight 230lbs. Currently I am 240, but not due to food. I have taken up sailing and walking. And I sail twice a week. In one month the rigors of sailing made me gain 10lbs in muscle. I know it to be muscle since my eating routine did not change one bit.

I am currently aggravated because I can not lose. It is has been almost 2 months since sailing and my body weight goes back and forth 237 to 240lbs.

I decided that maybe I need to take it up a notch by being 100% raw plus hit the gym in order to try to seriously body build and take up swimming. In addition to doing yoga during the week. And go on hiking trips on the weekend.

I would like to see if I can go from obese to her body ---> http://www.fitnessmodelworld.com/Lenda_Murray/pages/LendaMurray40_jpg.htm in about a year on Raw.

I know there has been debates on this board and on non-raw fitness boards on the issue of protein, especially animal protein...so I would like to see for myself if I can have an extremely muscular body on Raw.

So I ask you to help me out here.....

What sort of plant protein should I be considering on this journey? And how much should I take compared to a carnivore protein diet for bodybuilding?

Also, I would like to post photos to show my physical changes of my body. Can I upload the photos on RawFoodTalk, or do I need to create a photo journal from a free photo site?

[Revvell]

Personally, I think you need to stop concerning yourself with protein. As a former bodybuilder who was in competition form, I NEVER even looked at protein ~ I looked at training and eating a variety of good (then) food.

As I've stated here before, I use to train as a meat-eater eating 3 egg omeletes every morning after training. All I got was bulked up. I went vegetarian and trained 5-6 hours daily, 5-7 days a week (depending on how we were feeling) and became ripped. My training partner during the latter time didn't know me as a non-veg and once mentioned to me how great my back looked and could I imagine how much better it would look w/animal protein? Well, been there, done that.

By the way, one of the greatest bodybuilders who ever lived, Bill Pearl, was vegetarian. There are quite a few veggie and raw bodybuilders today ~ I think others have mentioned them on this board.

You say
I decided that maybe I need to take it up a notch by being 100% raw plus hit the gym... Ummmm, if you want a body builder's body....

But, you don't REALLY have to "hit the gym"..... you can gain good muscle at home using iron clubs, kettlebells, Bulgarian Training Bags, etc. They work the WHOLE body, not isolated muscles and they are waaaaay more fun than going someplace with music and tv's blaring all over the place along with recirculated air.

We were just talking about that Monday evening how, when my teacher and I trained, there was no music, no t.v.'s, just hard-core training with free weights wearing sweats and t-shirts. Neither of us can even step into these designer gyms with all their shiny machines, etc.

Revvell

[SekhemNefer]

Personally, I think you need to stop concerning yourself with protein. As a former bodybuilder who was in competition form, I NEVER even looked at protein ~ I looked at training and eating a variety of good (then) food.

As I've stated here before, I use to train as a meat-eater eating 3 egg omeletes every morning after training. All I got was bulked up. I went vegetarian and trained 5-6 hours daily, 5-7 days a week (depending on how we were feeling) and became ripped. My training partner during the latter time didn't know me as a non-veg and once mentioned to me how great my back looked and could I imagine how much better it would look w/animal protein? Well, been there, done that.

By the way, one of the greatest bodybuilders who ever lived, Bill Pearl, was vegetarian. There are quite a few veggie and raw bodybuilders today ~ I think others have mentioned them on this board.

You say Ummmm, if you want a body builder's body....

But, you don't REALLY have to "hit the gym"..... you can gain good muscle at home using iron clubs, kettlebells, Bulgarian Training Bags, etc. They work the WHOLE body, not isolated muscles and they are waaaaay more fun than going someplace with music and tv's blaring all over the place along with recirculated air.

We were just talking about that Monday evening how, when my teacher and I trained, there was no music, no t.v.'s, just hard-core training with free weights wearing sweats and t-shirts. Neither of us can even step into these designer gyms with all their shiny machines, etc.

Revvell


Well, I don't have money for kettle bells and iron clubs. I have a membership at Bally's. Do do have a circuit strength training room and a separate free weights room but kettle bells don't exist in them.

Maybe I should altnernate between the machines and the free weights?


I was concerning myself with protein because some people do the hemp protein thing and there was a discussion on spirulina as a protein source. I am not knowledgeable on hemp protein powders and using certain "alternative food sources" like spirulina for protein. I just know fruit and salads as for getting the average protein intake.

[Revvell]

Well, I don't have money for kettle bells and iron clubs. I have a membership at Bally's. Do do have a circuit strength training room and a separate free weights room but kettle bells don't exist in them.

The reason I mention kb's and such is because you get a more full body workout than with machines and free weights yet, ya gotta go with what you got.


Maybe I should altnernate between the machines and the free weights? Personally, I'd focus more on free weights as machines are not really built for people ~ they're built for making money. Because you have to balance the free weights, more of the smaller, intrinsic muscles have to be used and strengthened. I'm thinking more people hurt themselves by using machines because they isolate the large muscles and don't have the support of the smaller muscles. I trained before they had all these shiny machines.



I was concerning myself with protein because some people do the hemp protein thing and there was a discussion on spirulina as a protein source. I am not knowledgeable on hemp protein powders and using certain "alternative food sources" like spirulina for protein. I just know fruit and salads as for getting the average protein intake.Yeah, people make a big thing about NEEDING excess protein. As Alissa once said, if meat was a good source, why do bodybuilders need so much of it? It's not protein people need, it's amino acids which create usable, assimilable protein which we get from fruits, veggies, GREENS, nuts and seeds. The healthiest and strongest people I know, including Alissa, Doug Graham and Tim Van Orden, don't focus on protein ~ they focus on nutrition across the board. As I said, protein was never something I focused on even in the days of heavy lifting, etc. Neither do my friends. Check out Coach Tara (http://www.youtube.com/user/CoachTara). She and our teacher train DAILY ~ over 1000 days non-stop now ~ and NEVER talk about protein. They all eat a vegan, high raw diet.

Another thing is, when people get too much protein, it throws the body out of balance.

Revvell

[cara4art]

Hi Revell! Just saw your input above, all true! I am finding that I am getting BETTER results off a largely raw diet than I ever did eating tons of animal protein.
Went and checked out Coach Tara - awesome woman and a real inspiration to all of us fitness enthusiasts. Liked her training approach too - her routines would kick most people's butts, including mine - LOL!

[T-Bird]

I'll be checking out coach Tara when I'm not at work!

[moonstar]

...for the good post. I don't think that I'll be re-newing the "designer" membership.

[Revvell]

Tara's taking over our Monday night classes for July and August. I'm excited. She's a GREAT teacher!

She can definitely kick some major tush.


Hi Revvell! Just saw your input above, all true! I am finding that I am getting BETTER results off a largely raw diet than I ever did eating tons of animal protein.
Went and checked out Coach Tara - awesome woman and a real inspiration to all of us fitness enthusiasts. Liked her training approach too - her routines would kick most people's butts, including mine - LOL!

[Revvell]

LOL You're welcome.

Yanno, I WON a 3-month membership at a designer gym. Lasted 2 months and found myself going less and less. I'd go into the women's locker room and turn off the t.v. The cleaning woman would come in and turn it on. I'd jump up and turn it off again. Why distract people with the bad news first thing in the morning?

I wonder if I open a REAL gym if anyone would come. Bet they would! We'd have kb's, Indian and iron clubs, Bulgarian training bags, free weights... FUN!!!! Not one machine!!!


...for the good post. I don't think that I'll be re-newing the "designer" membership.

[lavendarJ]

I think Revvell's advice is head on...

I've fallen off the exercise wagon so to speak - meaning that I don't do a regular routine at the moment, just do stuff. Sometimes my sister and I challenge ourselves to these boog camp type of challenges just for fun -the last thing we did was running up and down the bleachers at a local track to earn the prize of being able to select the next week's challenge. The winner was the person who could last the longest and one hour and 25 minutes later I won..

But I agree with Revvell about not worrying about the protein...I think that any type of training that uses your own bodyweight is far more effective than working out out on 15-20 different machines in the gym...

There have been many on this site that are like Revvell meaning their personal stories are proof that you can achieve what you desire without turning to animal protein and other proteins (keep seeing buying this "muscle milk" stuff like crazy ...don't get it)

[SekhemNefer]

Okay, if I shouldn't worry about protein, but Amino Acids then what should I eat to get the proper amount of Amino Acids?



I am looking at Wikipedia's info on Amino Acids and there are like 7 Essentials and like 12 non-Essentials. And not of all the pages on the each Amino Acids have information on where to get them from a food source.

It appears to me that many of these Amino Acids don't really come from food, but create from the body and that I would have to buy a powder supplement?


Edited:

I went to explore this Amino Acids in food some more. This was an unsuccessful search, because for many of the Amino Acids they suggested eating red meat, poultry, eggs and dairy for most yet there is far less vegetables, fruit and lentils/beans where you can get most of the Essential and Non-essential Amino Acids from.

This site here: Amino Acids in Food (http://www.naturalhealthtechniques.com/Diet_Nutrition/amino_acid_list1.htm)

So it looks like I might need a powder supplement after all.

[Revvell]

Okay, if I shouldn't worry about protein, but Amino Acids then what should I eat to get the proper amount of Amino Acids?

A variety of raw food



It appears to me that many of these Amino Acids don't really come from food, but create from the body and that I would have to buy a powder supplement? No. You're still focused on protein. You'd be hard put eating raw to NOT get enough amino acids/protein, whatever! You say "busting the protein myth" yet, you're so totally focused on it.



Edited:

I went to explore this Amino Acids in food some more. This was an unsuccessful search, because for many of the Amino Acids they suggested eating red meat, poultry, eggs and dairy for most yet there is far less vegetables, fruit and lentils/beans where you can get most of the Essential and Non-essential Amino Acids from.

This site here: Amino Acids in Food (http://www.naturalhealthtechniques.com/Diet_Nutrition/amino_acid_list1.htm)

So it looks like I might need a powder supplement after all.

If that's what you want to do ~ eat dead powders... have at it! I've given my experience and I don't/wont use dead stuff. Did you check out Coach Tara? No dead powders ~ real food! Did you check out who she trains with? Zenkahuna on Youtube ~ no dead powders... real food. Suggestion ~ try it with just real food first. If that doesn't work for you... add dead powders ~ or, whatever.

[Jehote]

Go to the gym 5-6 times a week and love it! Been a member since January. But I hate weight. Machine or free weights. Hate em' both. I love cardio machines is why I go. But I am building some muscle and was told by my spinning teacher I was " looking good!". :) I do pushup and pull ups! Pretty much that's it. I have a great routine an get a great workout then move onto cardio. Do what works for you, but check out The Perfect Pushups program. It works for me.
Matthew
ps I totally missed the mark on the OP. Ok. Here goes eat fruits greens raw foods move your body and be happy. Um and use rice , pea, hemp , protein if you think you need to. ( you willstop later. I did I thought I had to have it. Newp!)

[SekhemNefer]

Okay, when I was talking about busing the protein myth, I was thinking about using animal products. I have been caught! Yes, my mind can't stop thinking that I must substitute animal by product with protein.

Okay, okay, I will do this without buying fancy powders. I thought I might need it, especially since I see so many people on this board discussing hemp protein so much.

So I will try this by just eating raw...no fancy stuff, except plain old food.


Right now I am doing a juice cleanse of carrots, pomegrante and orange juice during the whole Father's Day weekend. And do a whole lot of yoga and walking this weekend.

Plus, I will start blogging my progress on RawFoodtalk in the blog feauture section. So go to my profile very soon! I will update you on that in this thread.

[jurence]

I lift weights. I tell a big difference with protein. Your muscles will feel empowered (at least mine did, since they were starving for protein). If you can afford it, get hemp protein, because whey SUCKS and will make you sluggish and is horrible to get down. Its what I use... I hate it but it works.

[SekhemNefer]

I bought at Whole Foods a container of Raw Hemp protein powder. I can't remember the brand at the moment but I didn't know that protein powders can exist in Raw form. Excellent.


Question: Is it okay to do bodybuilding daily for 5 days straight? My gym not open on the weekends. I was planning to hike or swim on the weekends. But plan to do some cardio after bodybuilding.



I want to congrat myself. Since my juice feast on Friday and being 100% raw, I have shed 4 lbs and lost an inch in my waist. I have started strength training today, we shall see how this works out in the the future.

[cara4art]

"Question: Is it okay to do bodybuilding daily for 5 days straight? My gym not open on the weekends. I was planning to hike or swim on the weekends. But plan to do some cardio after bodybuilding."

Depends on where you are in your training. If you're just starting out, 3 days a week of a workout that hits all muscle groups, working sufficiently hard to burn out at 10 reps or so per set, but you can do cardio more often, like 4-6 days a week. Compound movements really do give you the biggest bang for the buck, and get you in and out of the gym in a shorter time too. Done right, they are very intense and recruit lots of muscle! If you are further along, you can split up your training days, and go to a 4 day a week schedule, like 2 days on 1 day off 2 days on, 2 days off, which will give you weekends to do something else, like your plan(which sounds excellent BTW)to do some hiking and swimming. There are some exponents of daily training, like the ones that Revell here mentions, but you do have to be in reasonably good condition from some base training so you don't burn out instead. Then, as you get stronger, mix it up daily with different exercises each day if you want, that way, again, you don't burn out, but stimulate your body in new ways to keep it guessing. When that happens, along with good nutrition, muscles have no choice but to respond!
Happy training, and best of luck!

[SekhemNefer]

You guys said that the machines are not good, so do free weights, but basically the free weights are for the arms. How can you bodybuild your thighs and legs without using the machines?

Okay, I think I will do bodybuilding 3x a week and altenate with swimming and hiking the other days.

[jurence]

You guys said that the machines are not good, so do free weights, but basically the free weights are for the arms. How can you bodybuild your thighs and legs without using the machines?

Okay, I think I will do bodybuilding 3x a week and altenate with swimming and hiking the other days.

Yes, 3-4x a week is pretty good. I did a small website thing for my PE class that has a good intro bodybuilding freeweight routine with links to pictures on how it is done.

http://sites.google.com/site/yngbullwnohorns/workout

I am going to start a bodyweight routine http://www.rockbodyfitness.com/12weekprogram.html

[Johnny B]

Free weights are not just for the arms.

If you do nothing more than dead-lifts, presses and pull-ups, set up in a progressive program, you'll become a beast.

[savvvy]

“On a regular basis, we excrete protein from our dying cells in the gut, and we reabsorb
those proteins. We also have some protein/amino acids secreted in the bile and we
reabsorb them too. And we have all those enzymes, secreted by our pancreas, all those
digestive enzymes that are also made of protein, and we reabsorb them as well.
So we are very good at recycling our protein and therefore we don’t need that much;
especially if our intake is fairly low.

“In fact, what we see is that those in the United States, who eat high amounts of animal
protein, are actually the ones with the deficiencies of amino acids because the metabolism
of these excess proteins requires so much alleviation of toxicity from the body. The liver works
so much harder to get rid of the ammonia and make urea, to get rid of the uric acid and to
get rid of those other toxins that we mentioned (nitrates, nitrites, nitrosamines, and other
toxins) by using specific amino acids to do this work, that we end up being deficient in
specific amino acids even while we eat excess proteins. “

[snoops]

You guys said that the machines are not good, so do free weights, but basically the free weights are for the arms. How can you bodybuild your thighs and legs without using the machines?



You sound like you are kind of winging this. Learning as you go. Which is fine but if you are going to start to do dead lifts and squats for the lower body (well they're for the whole body!) you should get some instruction because done improperly you can mess up your knees or back. Just someone to show you proper form. It's taken me months to feel comfortable doing them. They are very intense whole body workout.

[Cerellia]

Okay, I am obese. last month I weight 230lbs. Currently I am 240, but not due to food. I have taken up sailing and walking. And I sail twice a week. In one month the rigors of sailing made me gain 10lbs in muscle. I know it to be muscle since my eating routine did not change one bit.

Hello, great you have come to enjoy sports. It is wonderful and will certainly help you to get a beautiful, helathy body.
But seriously, I don't think you can gain 10lbs of muscles in one month. Weight fluctuation can have many reasons (fat, muscles, water ...) and sometimes all of them merge.


I am currently aggravated because I can not lose. It is has been almost 2 months since sailing and my body weight goes back and forth 237 to 240lbs.

Take it easy, when you eat healthy and work out regularly, you will automatically approach a healthy weight.
Maybe, you will feel better when you put away the skale for a while because it can be really distressing for some people, and controll your body development with a measuring tape, instead.


I decided that maybe I need to take it up a notch by being 100% raw plus hit the gym in order to try to seriously body build and take up swimming. In addition to doing yoga during the week. And go on hiking trips on the weekend.

Wow, that sounds really ambitious, I hope you can keep it up. Good luck!


I would like to see if I can go from obese to her body ---> http://www.fitnessmodelworld.com/Len...rray40_jpg.htm in about a year on Raw.

Please, please, please stop comparing yourself to other people! Appart from that, I think it is totally unrealistic to get such a body within one year! And serously, I don't even think this woman looks very good. I like well-toned bodies but hers just looks unnatural. I hope you will come to accept your own body instead of striving after somebody who has probably worked out (too much) for her whole life and done you know what to look like this.


I know there has been debates on this board and on non-raw fitness boards on the issue of protein, especially animal protein...so I would like to see for myself if I can have an extremely muscular body on Raw.

So I ask you to help me out here.....

What sort of plant protein should I be considering on this journey? And how much should I take compared to a carnivore protein diet for bodybuilding?

From what I know, most people consume a huge surplus of protein. Whatever protein is contained in fruits, vegetables and green should be enough. If you want to be on the very safe side, you can eat some dense protein food like seeds, sprouted legumes, nuts, ect. after your workouts, but be careful because they are also high in calories. Personally, I don't believe in suppliments, wether they are natural or not.


Also, I would like to post photos to show my physical changes of my body. Can I upload the photos on RawFoodTalk, or do I need to create a photo journal from a free photo site?

This is a very good idea! You can attach photos to your posts with the button "Manage attachments".

[Cerellia]

I think the weight maschines are very good, especially for beginners because you can't screw it up as bad as with free weights.
I would suggest not to work out the same muscle groups two days straight. If you want to walk out every day, rotate between exercises for different muscle groups (e.g. one day lower body, one day upper body). And don't forget to do some cardio exercises on a daily basis, if possible.

And yes, the protein myth is very deeply rooted: Most vegetarians eat a lot of cheese and yoghurt to "get their protein", most vegans live on soy, ect. We really need very little protein. Protein is made up of amino acids. Some of the amino accids are produced by the body, some come from the food. Raw fruits and especially greens contain plenty of amino acids.