what are your food bills like & what part of the country are you from?

[iwuvmydoggy]

i'm just curious what everyone's weekly/monthly food bills look like. it helps if you also know what area the person is from, so you can know if that area is more or less expensive than some other part of the country..

weekly food bill for my family and i is around 240.00-300.00 depending on where we go/what we buy :/ (it's food for 3 adults & 1 large dog) it may not even be heirloom or organic, either... and it's actually more expensive to buy from local farmer's and the produce is not as good as what you find in say, whole foods, and it too, may not even be organic or heirloom fruit/vegetables. why that is, i have no idea.. :confused: in fact, one time i went to a local food place & bought a bunch of carrots (and other stuff) & got them home & realized that 1.) they were from another country & 2.) they were moldy... and the other stuff i bought there was not much better.. :/ oh.. i live in tulsa, oklahoma.

what's it like in your area?

[PdaFunk]

Well lets see. I'm new to this so I'm still getting a hang of what I like to eat. I just ate 100$ worth of food in 5 days..but I've been pigging out because I've been transitioning...and that was all 100% organic. I decided I couldnt offord organic (which sucks) so I went to Dillons and bought regular produce...it may have pesticides but it's better than nothing. Spent about 35$ for enough veggies for about 5-6 days. Gotta get some fruit tomorrow, probably another 20 or 30$. Thats all non organic though. Then I gotta go buy some really raw honey..for like 8 bucks. So I'd say anywhere from like 50$-70$ a week for me. 240$ a month..but I don't think I will continue to eat as much once I get used to this so I'm sure it will be less. =] I live in Wichita, KS. Hope this helps!

[raw_danceruk]

works out about £20 a week, £80 a month

I buy bulk direct from wholesalers or use a cheaper supermarket..usually a combination of the two

buying bulk is SO much cheaper!! especially during the summer months it works out easier, 3 cases of fruits last me a fortnight easily

[iwuvmydoggy]

:/ i don't understand why our bill is so high. lol i guess i'm going to have to go over everything & figure out what the problem is. :/ it's ridiculous. and what's sad is that we have less food in our house than people who stuff their fridges & cupboards to the brim! lol

[ReneeH]

When I first started out, my food bill was rather high. However, once I had my "staples" the bill started to go down.

[katchmoleen]

This is a big deal for me as we are very frugal and are trying to pay off some big debt (see my website). Until I went raw, we have been spending about $100/week for 8 people, including four teenagers, occ. more but usually pretty steady at that. I feed my family pretty healthy, whole grains, organic, etc but still omnivore. Last friday I spent $75 on produce and probably got a little too much for us for one week. I am really going to try to keep it at $100/week, by being stingy with my family on the nuts and seeds (since they are still eating meat, why should they have both?). I will not be able to buy organic produce in my town as it is twice the price but I can occ get organic fruit by the case from Azure Standard that meets or beats the local price. I stay away from the expensive stuff like mangoes and stick to boring apples, oranges, and bananas, most of the time. Not as fun but easier on the pocketbook. Even avocados, which I cannot do without, are usually $1 apiece here in Montana. Young coconuts? Forget it.

[iwuvmydoggy]

This is a big deal for me as we are very frugal and are trying to pay off some big debt (see my website). Until I went raw, we have been spending about $100/week for 8 people, including four teenagers, occ. more but usually pretty steady at that. I feed my family pretty healthy, whole grains, organic, etc but still omnivore. Last friday I spent $75 on produce and probably got a little too much for us for one week. I am really going to try to keep it at $100/week, by being stingy with my family on the nuts and seeds (since they are still eating meat, why should they have both?). I will not be able to buy organic produce in my town as it is twice the price but I can occ get organic fruit by the case from Azure Standard that meets or beats the local price. I stay away from the expensive stuff like mangoes and stick to boring apples, oranges, and bananas, most of the time. Not as fun but easier on the pocketbook. Even avocados, which I cannot do without, are usually $1 apiece here in Montana. Young coconuts? Forget it.

oh my gosh! :eek: i don't understand how everyone's bills are SO low! lol 100.00 for 8 people? http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt213/patriotcz/2S-faint.jpg that is AWESOME! (i can't believe it!!!!) girl, gimme your grocery list! LOL!

[katchmoleen]

LOL, thanks! Seriously, if you look at my blog, I give very detailed ideas on lowering the grocery bill. I don't even think my town is particularly great for groceries. We don't have an Aldis for example. But I think my "tips" will apply to all-raw as well as conventional shopping. Where do you live?

[raw_danceruk]

serious good spending! checked out the blog..awesome stuff!!

I think my top tips would be

1. buy bulk- fruit and veg by the case, none of this buying 1kg bags.. buy 10-15kg at a time!

2. green bags for greens, if you eat them and buy regularly these help loads

3. cut out the raw-some luxuries; nuts, seeds, coconut oil, larabars..other junk food

4. Hunt down the offers, coupons, codes...if theres a good deal in a certain store..get down there and speak to the manager, buy a case of whats on offer

..these things work for me anyways and did last time when things were getting seriously pricey buying nuts and making gourmet things all the time!!

Hope that helps some;)

[betty boop]

When I started raw my foodbill was cut in half ($20. a week) but lately it's been quite high ($60. a week just for me) with all the wonderful summer fruits in the market. I've really been pigging out on pineapple, watermelon, cantelope and it's easy for me to go through at least one a day on top of the fruit and greens for my smoothies, then there's the avocados, strawberries and grapes and now cherries! (not organic and I do only buy stuff on special)

I keep telling myself I am actually saving money as I don't have to buy deodorant or pain meds, eye drops, vitamins, fast food, etc anymore.

[Veronica01]

I'm in Alberta Canada, and my food bill is usually $120-$140 a week for just me lol. I live on fruit, green smoothies, some veggies and some salads.
2-3 bunches of bananas
15-20 mangoes
a few containers of raspberries, blackberries, blueberries
5 kg navel oranges
5 kg mandarins
a dozen peaches and nectarines
half a dozen plums
an avocado
kale
a bag of zuchinni
spring mix
spinach
4kg red grapes
celery
1kg cherries
carrots
dates
frozen mango
frozen berries
a few canteloupes or honeydew
1 kg of apples


So that will probably last me around 5 days, we'll see though. Most of our fruit is imported from BC or California so it's pretty expensive here. I want to move to the states to save money on fruit!

[juliebove]

Hard to say really because the price includes cleaning supplies, magazines, batteries and other things I might buy at the grocery store. I probably spend about $300 a week. This does not include meals out or cat food.

We live in Bothell, WA. It's one of the most expensive parts of the country.

[T-Bird]

I've been trying not think of this actually, lol!

This winter will definitely be doing all I can to "grow my own" indoors. Maybe get grow lights?.

Trying with a garden again this year - those critters always do me in!

I have been lucky to source some bargains......10 cent each for organic banana that would almost done (score! over ripe for smoothies is great - and I froze about 6.)

Saturday shopping - organic pineapples for 98cents each!!! Unbelievable! I got 6. Should have grabbed more I guess.....

Organic caloro peppers - I only bought them because they were 10 cent each - I love them soooo much - I'm trying to save seeds to see if I can grow them!

probably spend 150-200/week in chicago. Fam of 3 with 2 non-raw teens.... - but try to load them up on the smoothie factor!

[T-Bird]

oh - and I routine scavenge 3-5 different stores for selection/price......


Wearying, but I gotta control costs....

[LiveLife]

My grocery bill relates more to that of Veronica01. I live in Winnipeg, Manitoba and am buying groceries for 2 adults and one toddler. Depending on the season we pay between $200 to almost $400 per month! My son and I are raw and my husband is on his way *fingers crossed* -we don't eat meat or go out for food so this gives you an indication on how expensive produce is here compared to the states. I have also been wanting to move down there for years just to have cheap food, that tastes fresh and not moldy and have more variety throughout the year, and isn't shipped fromother countries! But I would find it hard for us to leave our friends and family *tear*
We have been looking into more creative ways to find cheap produce (farmer's markets, helping family with their garden in return for produce, etc).

[RawHeaven]

what's it like in your area?


I'm in northern California.

Two years ago it was upwards to $100 per week. (gourmet)

Now it's about $20-45 per week depending on the season. (simple whole foods)

I sprout alot, consume most of my foods in liquid form, shop mostly at farmer's markets & my food co-op, gifted often with fruit from local/neighbors' trees.

[iwuvmydoggy]

I'm in northern California.

Two years ago it was upwards to $100 per week. (gourmet)

Now it's about $20-45 per week depending on the season. (simple whole foods)

I sprout alot, consume most of my foods in liquid form, shop mostly at farmer's markets & my food co-op, gifted often with fruit from local/neighbors' trees.

oh that would be sooooo nice! how awesome! where do you get your seeds for sprouting? (just asking, cause your bill is way low!)

[RawYorkCity]

Too much. But then again, I buy organic and "exotic" produce. I spend anywhere from $100-$150 on produce in New York, NY. The most expensive thing I buy is dates, which are like $8 a pound. I have to buy them because they're my staple.

I was going to join a food coop, but the farmers don't sell much fruit here. Only apples and pears. Boring.

[iwuvmydoggy]

Too much. But then again, I buy organic and "exotic" produce. I spend anywhere from $100-$150 on produce in New York, NY. The most expensive thing I buy is dates, which are like $8 a pound. I have to buy them because they're my staple.

I was going to join a food coop, but the farmers don't sell much fruit here. Only apples and pears. Boring.

wow.. you are lucky.. dates at 8.00 an lb... here in OKLAHOMA.... organic baby potatoes go for 8.00 an lb. POTATOES...... lol you can go to the store & buy a non organic 20lb bag for 6.00!!!! so good for you on the dates! i was thinking of growing dates and figs... because they are through the roof here.

[Gaius]

I'm in California and my bill is no more than 200 per month.

[RawYorkCity]

wow.. you are lucky.. dates at 8.00 an lb... here in OKLAHOMA.... organic baby potatoes go for 8.00 an lb. POTATOES...... lol you can go to the store & buy a non organic 20lb bag for 6.00!!!! so good for you on the dates! i was thinking of growing dates and figs... because they are through the roof here.

Oh no, I take it back. I just read the label and they're actually $9 a pound. Nevertheless I suppose that's not bad at all from what you say. The grass is always greener... haha. I also wish I could grow my own date and fig orchard. :)

[commoncents]

Around $80-$100 per week. For one person. That is alot. Will doing Raw simplier in the future, so this will go down. Will be a full-time student in September. The operative word will be: Frugal, Frugal, Frugal.

Northern California - Bay Area.

A Funny: I was trying to get a modification for my condo from the bank and one of the questions asked was what my food bill was? The counselor could not believe I spent so much on food. I told her, "hey, I'm a vegan and produce can get expensive." She understood immediately.

[iwuvmydoggy]

Oh no, I take it back. I just read the label and they're actually $9 a pound. Nevertheless I suppose that's not bad at all from what you say. The grass is always greener... haha. I also wish I could grow my own date and fig orchard. :)

you could get rich off of 'em!!! lol




Around $80-$100 per week. For one person. That is alot. Will doing Raw simplier in the future, so this will go down. Will be a full-time student in September. The operative word will be: Frugal, Frugal, Frugal.

Northern California - Bay Area.

A Funny: I was trying to get a modification for my condo from the bank and one of the questions asked was what my food bill was? The counselor could not believe I spent so much on food. I told her, "hey, I'm a vegan and produce can get expensive." She understood immediately.

ohhh wow! well that's nice that she understood & didn't look at you funny or something! lol wowie!

[Veronica01]

I cannot believe you can spend only $200 a month on food in california....

In Calgary, AB
Our apples are $1.99 a pound
our peaches, nectarines, plums are $2.99 a pound
Cherries are $4.99-$6.99 a pound
Grapes are $2.99-$4.99 a pound
Melons are anywhere from $4-8 each
REGULAR pineapples are $5.99-$6.99 each
Bananas are $0.78 a pound and organic are $1.28 a pound
Mangoes are $1.50-$2 each
Spring mix or spinach is $5 for a small container and $9 for a big one
Oranges are $1.99 a pound
Grapefruits are $1.29 each


And that's not even organic... organic is almost double the price. ALL extra money i dont use for bills goes to buy food every few days to keep up

[Gaius]

I cannot believe you can spend only $200 a month on food in california....
It's simple if you know where to look. There's lots of independent grocers that sell cheap and high quality produce. You just have to avoid Whole Foods and places like it.

I literally pay less than $1000 a month for my entire lifestyle. $650 for rent I split, 100 for my cell phone, utilities, and internet, and 200 for food.

[iwuvmydoggy]

I cannot believe you can spend only $200 a month on food in california....

In Calgary, AB
Our apples are $1.99 a pound
our peaches, nectarines, plums are $2.99 a pound
Cherries are $4.99-$6.99 a pound
Grapes are $2.99-$4.99 a pound
Melons are anywhere from $4-8 each
REGULAR pineapples are $5.99-$6.99 each
Bananas are $0.78 a pound and organic are $1.28 a pound
Mangoes are $1.50-$2 each
Spring mix or spinach is $5 for a small container and $9 for a big one
Oranges are $1.99 a pound
Grapefruits are $1.29 each


And that's not even organic... organic is almost double the price. ALL extra money i dont use for bills goes to buy food every few days to keep up

i think it'd be closer to 400 a month.. lol

here.... regular cabbage = .62 lb... organic cabbage (which is much smaller & worse looking) is 3.25 lb. is that not ridiculous?

[Veronica01]

Organic is expensive, for 4 pieces of broccoli i paid almost $6 last week... it's BROCCOLI! jeez.

Wow $1000 a month... i wish, my bills are over $2000 a month for rent, food, car payment, gas, cell phone, utilities, internet, student loans, credit cards.... yuck.

I'd love to move down to california but i highly doubt i'd find a job where i'd offer something different that they can't already find there.

I shop at the farmers market, so its slightly cheaper than the grocery store, but even all that stuff is from BC and california anyways.

[LiveLife]

I cannot believe you can spend only $200 a month on food in california....

In Calgary, AB
Our apples are $1.99 a pound
our peaches, nectarines, plums are $2.99 a pound
Cherries are $4.99-$6.99 a pound
Grapes are $2.99-$4.99 a pound
Melons are anywhere from $4-8 each
REGULAR pineapples are $5.99-$6.99 each
Bananas are $0.78 a pound and organic are $1.28 a pound
Mangoes are $1.50-$2 each
Spring mix or spinach is $5 for a small container and $9 for a big one
Oranges are $1.99 a pound
Grapefruits are $1.29 each


And that's not even organic... organic is almost double the price. ALL extra money i dont use for bills goes to buy food every few days to keep up


That is the same with me, prices I mean. In Canada, at least most of Canada, you are lucky to find organic produce or farmer's markets for even half of the year...usually less! Unless it is just me. Is it like this for you in Alberta too?

[katacykls]

Veronica most of the prices you listed for farmers market produce is the same here in Cali. at Farmers Markets, Co-ops, or Whole Foods or even higher at times. I don't think you would save much money from moving here unless you really want to move here than you could gain a lot. Have you been here before ?

[Colorawdo girl]

My food blessing costs are high. I am so blessed to have the money to buy live, organic, fresh and wonderful foods.

Oh and my doctor or med bills are non existent. woohoooo An apple a day keeps..........hip hip hoooraaaaay I saaaaaay.

[DejaVu]

I've been keeping track of my food expenses for the past 2 months. Its cost us 225$ a week for 2 adults, that doesn't include eating out, which we do a couple times a week. It shocks me that it costs so much, but I don't know how much it cost me before, since I don't really have a budget.

We do go through a container of green powder, which costs 66$ every 3 weeks. That's probably my biggest expense.

When I look at Veronica's grocery list, we definately don't eat as much as her.

[raw_danceruk]

if I purchased items individually it would be insanely pricey!!

for example, 1kg convention cheapest rougest banana's £1.26 or 18kg organic banana's for £15!!

same with oranges, £1 for 1kg regular ones..not super big or anything..or 12kg Large organic valencia for under £10

Avacado nearly £2 for 4 baby hass avos..or £7 for 8kg

Mango, two small conventional £1.50 or 6kg £7

[kidkid]

I live in New York City regularly, but for the summer I'm living in Portland Oregon. I spend way way way more money in NYC on food than i do here in Ptown. For one thing, my brother (who i'm visiting here) is a permaculture designer -- he designs edible gardens which require little maintenance, are beneficial for the environment, create habitat, and which produce abundantly especially now that it is summertime. So I'm surrounded by his garden, and the gardens of his friends. Permaculture and ideas like it are really taking root here in portland, and so there are edible things all over the city that are up for grabs. This is not to mention Food Not Bombs (an organization that dumpsters still-good food and hands it out to whoever wants it), and the fact that local grocery stores and co-ops tend to hand out their surplus or slightly wilted produce at the end of the week.

In NYC, i'd say I spend about $75 per week for just myself. Here I'd say I spend about $45 per week. This is NOT including eating out or whimsical grocery shopping (like snack foods and specialty item splurges).

anyway, permaculture and edible gardening is where it is at people! It's how we're gonna survive in our urban environments in the future...well, that's my hope.:)

[iwuvmydoggy]

I live in New York City regularly, but for the summer I'm living in Portland Oregon. I spend way way way more money in NYC on food than i do here in Ptown. For one thing, my brother (who i'm visiting here) is a permaculture designer -- he designs edible gardens which require little maintenance, are beneficial for the environment, create habitat, and which produce abundantly especially now that it is summertime. So I'm surrounded by his garden, and the gardens of his friends. Permaculture and ideas like it are really taking root here in portland, and so there are edible things all over the city that are up for grabs. This is not to mention Food Not Bombs (an organization that dumpsters still-good food and hands it out to whoever wants it), and the fact that local grocery stores and co-ops tend to hand out their surplus or slightly wilted produce at the end of the week.

In NYC, i'd say I spend about $75 per week for just myself. Here I'd say I spend about $45 per week. This is NOT including eating out or whimsical grocery shopping (like snack foods and specialty item splurges).

anyway, permaculture and edible gardening is where it is at people! It's how we're gonna survive in our urban environments in the future...well, that's my hope.:)

that sounds awesome! i'd like to learn more about Permaculture! feel free to mail me or whatever. :D i'm planning on buying a house in the near future (or rather, buying property to build a "green" house on)... so any help with Permanent edible landscaping i can get would of course RAWK! lol

and that's really neat about your grocery bill! so cheap! lol what do you eat? i was talking with my folks about everyone's grocery bills being so low & my mom was like "i just don't get how they can do it. they must eat like birds"... lol

[kidkid]

hey iwuvmydoggy! You should read Gaia's Garden by Toby Hemenway. I'm reading it right now (just getting interested in permaculture myself). It's very accessibly written, poetic, clear, and HUGELY informative.

I eat GREENS! spinache, kale, collards, lettuces and chard are my staples. I figure as long as i have these things, some olive oil, some salt and a lemon or a lime, I have a meal. I eat plenty of fruits and avocados and other vegetables too, but I consider them almost secondary. If I need to save money, I just eat more greens and skim down on my other stuff. And then also, I'm opportunistic, and grab whatever I can find for free. I'm a raw vulture.

ahem...I also regularly buy some of the more expensive prepackaged raw deals, but as I'm losing money I'm trying to break that habit. $45 a week is the estimate for when I have cut out that pre-packed portion of my diet.

[iwuvmydoggy]

hey iwuvmydoggy! You should read Gaia's Garden by Toby Hemenway. I'm reading it right now (just getting interested in permaculture myself). It's very accessibly written, poetic, clear, and HUGELY informative.

I eat GREENS! spinache, kale, collards, lettuces and chard are my staples. I figure as long as i have these things, some olive oil, some salt and a lemon or a lime, I have a meal. I eat plenty of fruits and avocados and other vegetables too, but I consider them almost secondary. If I need to save money, I just eat more greens and skim down on my other stuff. And then also, I'm opportunistic, and grab whatever I can find for free. I'm a raw vulture.

ahem...I also regularly buy some of the more expensive prepackaged raw deals, but as I'm losing money I'm trying to break that habit. $45 a week is the estimate for when I have cut out that pre-packed portion of my diet.

oh well that's cool! i can buy big bags of organic greens for like 8.00 :) so i guess i'll start doing that! (i bought turnip greens like that, not realizing that they tasted the way they do.. i tried making a green smoothie with them and liked to choked... LOL but they have other kinda greens than that available!)

i saw that book on amazon, so thanks for the recommendation :) now i'll have to get it! :D thank you!!

[katchmoleen]

if I purchased items individually it would be insanely pricey!!

for example, 1kg convention cheapest rougest banana's £1.26 or 18kg organic banana's for £15!!

same with oranges, £1 for 1kg regular ones..not super big or anything..or 12kg Large organic valencia for under £10

Avacado nearly £2 for 4 baby hass avos..or £7 for 8kg

Mango, two small conventional £1.50 or 6kg £7

Raw Dancer, how do you as a single person keep all that bulk produce from spoiling so quickly? Even with my 8 eating stuff I have had oranges go bad from spoilage. But I hadn't thought of buying bananas and avocados in bulk. I will have to look at my co-op and see what they sell. Very rarely avocados will drop to 50 cents here, but $1 apiece is considered a good price.

[iwuvmydoggy]

this morning, i had a green smoothie and half a watermelon... :o i'm already thinking about lunch... LOL not hungry at all, just thinking of what i can make.. XD

[katchmoleen]

that sounds awesome! i'd like to learn more about Permaculture! feel free to mail me or whatever. :D i'm planning on buying a house in the near future (or rather, buying property to build a "green" house on)... so any help with Permanent edible landscaping i can get would of course RAWK! lol

There is a GREAT magazine that you can subscribe to either in print or online. I recommend the online version because then you have access to all the back issues. It is Permaculture, it comes out of England, and is so great because it emphasizes urban permaculture. There was not too long ago an article about growing food on balconies and porches. the amount the author had growing on her little apartment balcony was amazing. You can find out more at
http://www.exacteditions.com/exact/browse/409/460

[iwuvmydoggy]

There is a GREAT magazine that you can subscribe to either in print or online. I recommend the online version because then you have access to all the back issues. It is Permaculture, it comes out of England, and is so great because it emphasizes urban permaculture. There was not too long ago an article about growing food on balconies and porches. the amount the author had growing on her little apartment balcony was amazing. You can find out more at
http://www.exacteditions.com/exact/browse/409/460

THANK YOU SOOO MUCH!!! :D that looks awesome! i appreciate it very much!

[betty boop]

There is a GREAT magazine that you can subscribe to either in print or online. I recommend the online version because then you have access to all the back issues. It is Permaculture, it comes out of England, and is so great because it emphasizes urban permaculture. There was not too long ago an article about growing food on balconies and porches. the amount the author had growing on her little apartment balcony was amazing. You can find out more at
http://www.exacteditions.com/exact/browse/409/460

this intersts me also - thanks a million!

[Jenamarie]

I average about $100-120/week for my family of 5, which is a lot less than most people I've talked to in my area (seattle). This weeks grocery bill was only $87!

[kidkid]

another excellent magazine is "The Permaculture Activist" which is great because it also focuses on urban permaculture. It also focuses on permaculture beyond gardening (like how we organize our society and our communities), which is often forgotten but hugely important. But maybe I should save that for a different thread ;)

[raw_danceruk]

Raw Dancer, how do you as a single person keep all that bulk produce from spoiling so quickly? Even with my 8 eating stuff I have had oranges go bad from spoilage. But I hadn't thought of buying bananas and avocados in bulk. I will have to look at my co-op and see what they sell. Very rarely avocados will drop to 50 cents here, but $1 apiece is considered a good price.

I usually only get 2-3 cases at a time for mono

so oranges: they last practically forever in the fridge, I just put them in straight in their cases

melons, same..I can eat a case in a week

Other bits like Pluots, greens- they go in green bags

Banana's at varying ripeness, some can go into freezer

I often do 5kg red peppers, bag them up in green bags, fantastic for mono meals

genrally speaking citrus lasts well as do nana's! :)

[Veronica01]

That is the same with me, prices I mean. In Canada, at least most of Canada, you are lucky to find organic produce or farmer's markets for even half of the year...usually less! Unless it is just me. Is it like this for you in Alberta too?

Our farmers markets are open year round i think, but the fruit is only around for spring and summer and its still imported from BC and California, maybe some vegetables are local and the meat and eggs... i stick to the produce section now so i haven't asked.

[Veronica01]

I've been keeping track of my food expenses for the past 2 months. Its cost us 225$ a week for 2 adults, that doesn't include eating out, which we do a couple times a week. It shocks me that it costs so much, but I don't know how much it cost me before, since I don't really have a budget.

We do go through a container of green powder, which costs 66$ every 3 weeks. That's probably my biggest expense.

When I look at Veronica's grocery list, we definately don't eat as much as her.

I also don't eat out though. And when you're putting a lot of stuff that is little like berries, peaches into smoothies you use the whole little clam shell container fast.