Aren't "raw recipes" kind of counterproductive towards true raw transition?

[Gaius]

I know this is going to make some people upset, but hopefully, we can all be mature enough to see that this suggestion isn't meant to repress, but to free some minds out there.

Let me preface by saying that this is simply what being raw means to me, and it doesn't mean that everybody should adopt my views. My only goal is to stir the thoughts of some people out there who have yet to truly feel free on a raw diet.

------------------------------------------------------

Sometimes I look at all these recipes that try to turn raw food into their own version of SAD food, like lasagna, pizza, burgers, etc and I think:

"Isn't this just a way to desperately hang on to the foods that you're trying to get away from in the first place?"

"Isn't this just increasing your chances of relapsing into a SAD diet?"

Some of you will probably say: "We're expressing our creativity by making raw versions of SAD foods!" but really, you're not. There's nothing original about making a pizza out of raw food. There just isn't. Unless you're making it your life's work to become a raw chef, creativity in how you prepare your food is simply a waste of time, and here why:

Eating raw should not be about keeping yourself mentally enslaved by the thoughts and obsession with food, as these recipes clearly entail. Eating raw should be about FREEING yourself from the modern obsession with food. The ultimate goal of this lifestyle isn't to go from SAD to raw recipes. The ultimate goal is to complete a paradigm shift where you begin to eat to live rather than living to eat; and that eating raw lets you live to the fullest.

If you're spending hours at the farmer's market and co-ops collecting ingredients, and laboring at the kitchen preparing those ingredients into some sort of "raw pizza", what difference is there from the person who goes to the grocery store to get the SAD ingredients to roll their own SAD pizza at home? Sure, one of them is healthier than the other, but they are both still rather obsessed with the thought of food, and there is nothing mentally healthy about that. A person of free spirit wouldn't put so much time into his or her food. They would just simply find something basic and eat it, so they can move on to meaningful activities much sooner.

Let's face it: when most of us were eating SAD; we really weren't living our lives to the fullest. Instead, we were filling the emptiness in our lives with food, thoughts of food, meaningless activities centered around making and eating food, and so on. Don't fall into the same trap by spending inordinate amounts of time and energy into recipes, as it really just serves as an unhealthy distraction from what really matters: your life.

[klomasius]

In a word. No.

[RawSar]

Ya I agree..
But everyone has different goals.

[rkk]

For me, having raw recipes is very crucial to helping me transition. Although I agree with you that simple raw would be best - that is too much too soon. Just going from cooked food to raw takes a lot of adjustment, so having some raw recipes still gives me some comfort. I realize this is not ideal in the long-term, but it is ideal for where I'm at right now on my path. Once I get used to eating 100% raw over time, then sure, I can look into eating more simple raw and less prepared stuff. But if someone were to jump straight in from cooked food (especially SAD food) to simple unprepared raw... it might be just too much and they might run away from raw before they give things a real chance.

[juliebove]

Well... I have seen plenty of recipes and most of them are things I wouldn't try to begin with. I don't want to make something that imitates sushi or chicken because I don't like those things to begin with. I don't like desserts in general so usually wouldn't make a raw one. I did make RP's brownies once. People liked them. I just never felt like making them again. I did make the lemon chews. Made them a couple of times. Also made them with lime! Might make those again sometime. I really liked them but I made them more tart then sweet. For me, they were not a dessert but a snack that contained protein. Once that I could stick in my purse and take with me.

I have made the onion bread. I really liked it and made it into sandwiches with Swiss nut cheese, lettuce and tomato. I haven't made it in a while and in fact my dehydrator has been in the garage for a long time, untouched. Just haven't felt like using it.

Today I had some pico de gallo. I love the stuff. It's a raw food and yet people on the SAD diet eat it as well. Does that make it wrong? I don't think so.

What it all boils down to for me is whether or not I like the food.

[Gaius]

Ya I agree..
But everyone has different goals.
I agree and I disagree with your comment. Everybody has different and multiple goals according to their individuality, but I believe everybody shares one singular goal that they may or may not realize yet: to be free of mind, body and spirit.

[Eva]

Hmmm... I see what you're saying, I do.

But I have to disagree with how your thoughts fit my life. When I want to have something interesting and/or gourmet, I want to know how to do it RAW. Why? I enjoy entertaining and dinner parties and putting love and creativity into my food to share with others.

I don't want to be back against the wall where I've got to choose between sticking to the rigidity and eating carrot sticks... or... going to the other side...

On an average morning, I throw together a green smoothie. I have an avocado when I get hungry, or spend (literally) 30 seconds cracking open a young coconut, then throw together a nice salad for lunch, and who knows what for dinner.

But when I go out, I always like to have food to take with me, and not JUST oranges and apples. Stuff like my homemade bread crackers so I can just smear an avocado on it or make a salad sandwich. Why? Because I want to be able to do close to 100% without feeling like I'm depriving myself.

So, I don't do pizza for lunch and calzones for dinner. But it's my prerogative, and if I enjoyed that and it kept me away from cow pus and dead cows, why not?

And... just a side note... I've been successfully raw for about two and a half years. It's not forever, but this is working for me. And I feel more secure in it than I did in the beginning. This is NOT changing.

And NOW I can whip up the fancy stuff in a few minutes like it's nothing. Is that a fault?? It means I'm desperate? Because honestly, there was quite a learning curve to get here! I've spent the time gathering ingredients and slaving over the dehydrator trying to figure out why I couldn't make yummy crackers or pizza.

And... last but not least... I hosted a dinner party + uncooking class a couple weeks ago (I have another tomorrow night) with many non-raw people who are NOW really able to add raw food into their diets. One guy has a son with developmental problems, and he is changing his whole family's diet now that he knows it can be delicious and do-able!

And he didn't get that gusto from wheatgrass and carrot sticks.

Not that there's anything wrong with those. Yum, yum. I just love wheatgrass and carrot sticks. (Not sarcasm. I can really see how some people might enjoy the "pure" foods only.)

Didn't mean to go on and on. But you set this up like an attack, or that's how it feels anyways. And there's no need for that. We all have different ways of doing things. Yours is great for you. Mine is great for me. I enjoy great variety, and I cherish the flexibility and the fact that there is ZERO deprivation in this lifestyle for me!

[Gaius]

Eva, I agree with you that some people may want something more than just an apple, but I have to say that making raw imitations of SAD food is probably not the best idea for most people in the long term. I would love if more raw chefs out there made original raw dishes that didn't have to emulate SAD dishes directly, so we raw eaters would have a niche in cuisine that we could call our own and adhere to, to mentally seperate ourselves from SAD eating entirely.

[betty boop]

Gaius, I'm happy you started this thread because from the very beginning I have wondered why people choose to copy SAD foods instead of simply embracing raw.

In all fairness, I notice much more of it on the vegan boards than on the raw ones. Why people want to create a simulated meatloaf or sausage or bacon mystifies me, but then I've worked as a chef most of my life (not now) and maybe that influences my thoughts. If I want a coffee I have a coffee or a slice of pizza or a hunk of chocolate not a raw substitute.

I am not going to deprive myself of something I want or eat something I don't love just to stay or say I'm 100% raw because that makes it seem like a diet and it's not - it's a way of life. People go off diets because they feel deprived and fall right back into their old habits and I don't plan on ever going back to SAD or meat or eggs in any form raw or not.

Maybe I'm a little disillusioned today as I've spent the last couple days making all kinds of raw substitutes, from burgers to crackers to bars and frankly I am not impressed. I spent a ton of money on ingredients and have done nothing but wash dishes and clean up only to throw the stuff in the garbage. I think I'll just stick to what I was doing before which was smoothies, fruit and veggies and salads.

[Springtime]

Before raw i never had junk foods, and only sweets very occasionally, so i think it's a lot of fun to make truly healthy versions of all the stuff i've never allowed myself to eat, and hence be abe to try things like ice cream sundaes and brownies for dinner :)

I didn't like reugular ice cream, or soy ice cream at all, but banana ice cream is wonderful, so i have it. I feel very free to choose what i want, and i mostly eat whole fruits and veggies, but for me right now it's a lot of fun to try all these things that i've never had.

Being vegan i never had the meat-replicas out there, bc it didn't make any sense to me. I did not want meat, so why should i try to copy it? But that's my oppinion, and what suits me best.

I belive that the best way to keep being raw is to do what feels right at the moment, do whatever keeps you raw, and then you will get signals from your body after a while that will tell you what you need. Most long time raw-ists seems to be salad-and-fruits eaters, and i don't think it's such a big deal that people want "fake foods" the first year or so.

We're so much healthier than before, so i think worrying is a greater risk than eating

Edit: I have to add that i don't think there's anything wrong with spending a lot of time in the kitchen. Some people have a smoothie with everything in it, and are happy that way, but there are a lot of us who take great pleasure from making food. For me i consider it a hobby, and i could easily imagine going to a raw chef training and work in a kitchen.

[EZ rider]

I think recipes can be more challenging to digest then simple raw foods.

[Dimond]

The recipes or buying others' prepared meals are what has kept me 100% raw with no slips and absolutely no desire to eat SAD ever again. They are meant to be an aid. To me they taste way better than SAD. I don't spend hours buying or planning as I keep everything very simple. Now that I've been raw for awhile, I eat very simple meals.

People spend a lot of time baking & cooking so I don't see this as any different. I never enjoyed those things so I don't do that with raw. What amazes me is that I can spend 5 minutes creating a gourmet raw meal when I didn't enjoy cooking and I'm so happy and proud when I do it.

[artgirly4]

springtime said it best.

Seen vegetarian recreate old food and raw same. Not bad or good, simply is.

Word is so powerful.If you set up post as "some be upset" then they will be...you set that intention.
Then peeps see the word upset....mind goes there? yes no maybe

[RawHeaven]

I see your point Gaius. However, I don't think it's a question of raw food recipes being counterproductive. I believe it depends on where you are in your understanding of nutrition, your personal goals and where you want to take your body. Not everyone is in the same place. And that would probably be pretty boring if we were. I was a vegetarian for 20 years prior to becoming Raw, so I wasn't converting the recipes from SAD but simply based on where my body was, in terms of its transition. Initially, both my mind (emotional) and body (physical) needed a lot of food. I learned how to make a few gourmet meals with delectable desserts thrown in for good measure for about a year. Now I can't touch the stuff and eat pretty simply. But that's not a judgement, it's only because this is where I happen to be at the moment. That could change. And this is what my body wants right now...simple, whole, organic produce. As opposed to again, when I first converted to raw, I could eat the house. And still was dropping weight and getting healthier and the coveted "glow" I may add. My honest thoughts are the longer you stick with raw, you will eventually end up exactly in the place you're describing in your assessment. If you choose to be there and if it's time. :)

[snoops]

I see what you are saying totally. Just most of us are not "there" yet!

Huge steps need transitions.

Also agree with the poster who said that the raw versions of SAD food are not worth it. Most things I've tried I have thrown out too. But maybe we needed to do that to get to the next step.

[Gaius]

The recipes or buying others' prepared meals are what has kept me 100% raw with no slips and absolutely no desire to eat SAD ever again. They are meant to be an aid. To me they taste way better than SAD. I don't spend hours buying or planning as I keep everything very simple. Now that I've been raw for awhile, I eat very simple meals.
That's all I ever want also. I hope I can get to a whole year of doing that.

[cara4art]

All good responses by other people here! Everyone is unique in their raw journey for sure. So many things influence this for sure. There are some who gravitate toward very pure and simple from the get-go, and others who enjoy having some more complex food along with the kingpins of the raw diet(fruits, veggies, nuts and seeds). It also depends on one's previous eating habits, location, availability, budget, and how much one enjoys preparing and getting creative with one's food. Some of us like the esthetics of a beautifully-presented raw recipe too, and seeing some raw chefs' work on the web is very inspiring as to what is possible. Granted, it's ideal to get to the point where one eats solely to live and all, but many of us do enjoy good food, and like to have something filling, especially coming off denser SAD diets, and also to keep from getting bored early on. True, people when just starting out often get into making a lot of complicated stuff to help fill them up. This affords an opportunity to just try things out, and it tends to settle down into something simpler anyway over time, as the body gets used to raw food. For myself, I've found that having a few recipe staples on hand really helps me. It's wonderful to have a batch of crackers on hand, or a pate/spread, or even a raw dessert treat(like banana ice-cream or some sort of "cookies"). The rest of my diet is pretty simple, with smoothies, salads, wraps, and often just fruit, so it all balances out. Seems to be working now. Plus it's nice to be able to make some treats to impress other non-raw people or guests - usually they're blown away when they taste that good.
Personally, I think it's great that the raw movement is coming into its own "cuisine" with many approaches, and some highly-creative folks out there. There's something for everyone, ranging from therapeutic cleansing, all the way up to gourmet treats! Eventually, as one tunes into one's body more, it will tell you what it needs anyway.

[gabriele]

I see what you are saying totally. Just most of us are not "there" yet!

Huge steps need transitions.

Also agree with the poster who said that the raw versions of SAD food are not worth it. Most things I've tried I have thrown out too. But maybe we needed to do that to get to the next step.

Yes, Snoops, my husband is trying all these "versions" of his favorite foods. He is going vegan, not raw, and this is an enormous transition for him. He's finding vegan cookies, vegan pizza, you name it. It is a hugely difficult thing for us to do, especially me at the age of 55, to totally stop eating what i've been eating my whole life and then just eat fruits and vegetables basically. It's a lifetime of eating a certain way due to your culture that you're trying to change overnight. Tough.

[Revvell]

That's your opinion and you're welcome to it. What is a "waste of time" to one person is fun and creative for another. Their choice, their life.



Revvell (http://LetsTalkRaw.com)

[Tsurugi_Oni]

Life is about creativity. The thing I learned about life is that we don't have anywhere to be but where are. There is no better use of time then what we want to use it on. We can spend 50 years becoming a master noodle maker, or you can not. We can live subsistence or we can make one giant globalalized city. In my view complex recipes are the same as simple, it's just a more elaborate version of the simple recipe based on the simple philosophy of RAW. It's like fractal geometry, it can get infinitely complex but it's all based off of one simple "idea". The celebration of the human creating the not yet created, finding new ways to express itself in a grander version of it was once.

Life is one giant process of creating Who We Are. A monk lives in a shack, eats rice and a couple veggies a day, and is in peace. Others may use the powers of computers and instant communication to be happy. Algae just need sunlight. We're all beings just trying to manifest our inner truths into this outer world. Simple and complex are really just the same, all complex things are structurally based off of the simple. Life is fractal geometry.

Having something aesthetically pleasing to the eyes can be just as good for your health as nutrition. A meal doesn't have to be simply nutrition, but an experience for your mind and senses. Maybe raw foodists who make sad food look-a-likes feel liberated when they see a "SAD" food that actually boosts your vitality. Like magic they turned something debilitating into something healing.

I can't know why 6 billion people in the world do what they do, but you got to let them express who they are.

*Sorry about the rant, lol.....hope my life philosophy answers the question*

[Jessica1228]

I gravitate toward simple eating mostly due to laziness :D, although I don't mind whipping up a quick dressing, dip, green smoothie, or banana ice cream.

I agree with EZ rider that sometimes recipes can be more difficult to digest than raw foods.

I went on a weekend raw food retreat several years ago and was shocked when all of the meals were really complex gourmet with little to no simple options available. I got SO sick that I had to leave the retreat early. The stomach pains were so severe that I nearly passed out. I think that experience really freaked me out and, in addition to laziness, has kept me from making anything too complex.

[rkk]

Look,

If someone naturally gravitates to only fruits, vegetables and salads in their unprocessed form... great, let them eat that.

On the other hand, if people enjoy raw prepared that is similar to previous SAD or comfort foods, that's just fine as well.

If this is what stops people from going back to SAD, then food prep has done it's job. The reasons people are likely to quit (or not start in the first place) a transition to raw is feelings of deprivation. I know first hand, as I first committed to raw in 2006 eating primarily SIMPLE raw as you described- had amazing results after a few months, but felt so deprived that I stopped, as I was languishing over my food addictions. If eating recipes now helps me to transition, wouldn't you yourself say that it is well worth it? Maybe someday I'll eat more simply, but right now trying recipes is helping me get accustomed to the taste of raw.

For instance, I used to love chocolate milkshakes. Then when a became vegan a few years ago, I took a fancy to chocolate shakes make with soymilk and soy ice cream. Now transitioning to raw, this was a huge craving of mine. But a few weeks ago, I learned how to make cacao-banana-hempmilk smoothies that are raw and taste nearly as good as the soy chocolate shakes. If I didn't have the raw version, I'd be fighting myself right now to make it through these cravings. Wouldn't you say having the raw version is just fabulous?

Like I said, maybe over time most of us will shift to more simpler preparations. But you talk about transitioning, not about what is best long-term. There is absolutely NO reason that someone should be forced to feel deprived on this path, just because someone like you thinks they should eat in the way you think is best. We are all on our own path. If I didn't have raw recipes, I don't think I would have the courage to be transitioning right now. I can't imagine how you wouldn't think this is a good thing.

[iluvmangos]

That's your opinion and you're welcome to it. What is a "waste of time" to one person is fun and creative for another. Their choice, their life.

Exactly. I mean seriously, why care? If you've found a way of raw eating that works for you, then great, but no one else is wrong for not doing it your way.

I make some raw recipes, but not very time intensive ones. Recipes I make regularly are Alissa's mock salmon pate, her kim-chi, and my own guacamole. I make smoothies, too. There are some other recipes I'd like to try, but don't have the proper sheets for my dehydrator for them yet. I like to eat simple foods, but if I want to make a recipe, I'm gonna have it.

Maybe I'll get to the point where I never want a raw recipe. Maybe I won't. I don't care.

[Aleesha Sattva]

I eat really simply, but that doesn't mean that sometimes I wouldn't love to go to a raw restaurant and have something fancy.

I saw so many "shoulds" in your OP. My mom always said, "Shoulding is sh*tting on ourselves" and I agree completely.

Everyone's path is different. If you don't want to eat prepared raw foods... then don't. If you want to live on one food for a month, then go for it. Who cares... it's your body, your life, your choice.

[Gaius]

The reason why recipes are hard to digest is that food combining really is essential to digestion. We humans arent meant to take in 3 different kinds of foods at a time.

[T-Bird]

I just don't see why the OP assume that they themselves have the "truth" and need to critique where others' are.


A lot of people on these boards do things that I don't consider 'healthy' enough for me and where I'm trying to be now and tomorrow, and while I might point out something if I think they don't have some information, if they know there is an issue/potential issue, and make the choice to do it. Well - that's their choice!

It's kind of the same with being dogmatic 100% one morning, and transitioning slowing over time.

Different people. Different paths. Different truths.

I prefer these boards as an exchange of ideas, philosophy, and information. NOT as a "here is the one truth" slip this on or be a "fail"

[Veronica01]

I totally agree with you on this counterproductiveness. I was finding myself having to eat worse catering to others and trying to think of complicated things to make. I'm just going to be me and be alone and eat fruit and smoothies and make myself happy.

[ruffsongraw]

i agree with whoever said that trying to re-create some SAD menu item in a RAW version is not as good as somebody just inventing their own RAW new menu item. which many have!
Gaus: i did make the raw pizza and it wasnt so great. i didnt throw it out, but it was only similar to SAD pizza in the way that it was held in my hand to eat and the tomato sauce. i would rather just miss certain foods and get over it than try to satiate myself with pretend versions---BUT---that is JMO. others are NOT wrong for making all the recipes. some ppl LOVE to prepare food & i would love to TRY their efforts! but i dont have time to prepare elaborate stuff like that. simple is working for me. : )

but everybody has to figure out and do what works for THEM.

jen

[Tsurugi_Oni]

Oo I agree.

The only problem that I see with making raw look like SAD is that you are very limited. You may have to pick unsuitable ingredients based on textural similarity, or things that just don't go together.

I'd definately love to see more pioneer rawfood recipes. Ones that take these fresh ingredients and combine them into some unknown delicassy. Maybe guacamole served in a dehydrated guacamole skin, with a carrot spoon? Completely biodegradable :D

I don't know lol.

[Raw Angel Mom]

Hey thank you for bringing those questions but keep in mind we all have different experience and i am more then happy to share mine regarding your questions



"Isn't this just a way to desperately hang on to the foods that you're trying to get away from in the first place?"

For me, it was about to train my mind that this is comfortable to be on this diet and to make the transition more smoothly. Once you make peace, anyway for me, i found myself wanted more simplier food and not as much the gourmet thing. Alissa's approach is totally genious. What makes us heal or doing bad choice, it is our mind not the body. Once we really feel this is the way of life that suit us, fear just shade away and good root take place. One thing i love about raw food, is that i can make all kind of desert now. In the past i couldn't even bake, lol....





"Isn't this just increasing your chances of relapsing into a SAD diet?"

Not at all. I do feel though, that at some point we need to face the music and face the emotions that made us sick in the first place. Using food to suppress our emotions no matter how healthy the food is supposed to be, in my humble opinion doesn't do any good except that it might be the best someone can do at the time. I find with raw food, you cannot really over eat because our body will send us the signal ok enough. When i was eating cook food, i didn't have that signal and had to use self discipline.

[gabriele]

The reason why recipes are hard to digest is that food combining really is essential to digestion. We humans arent meant to take in 3 different kinds of foods at a time.

Are we sure about this??

[Cerellia]

I agree that nearly all people are possesed with food one way or another. Eating is good, it creates positive reactions through the gustative nerves and it is essential for survival, but nothing more. It should not be a supplementary satisfaction and it should not be the main social activity (which it is unfortunally in our society).
Unfortunally, we can't change habits which have been acquired from childhood on, overnight.
I, for my part, am still as possesed as ever (or even more) with food. I'm eating all day and when I'm not eating, I think about what I will eat next or I write in forums about food and eating :rolleyes:
I'm not a gourment raw eater but once I was sitting in my room, thinking about food. The thought that I could not have my favourite meals again made me litterally unhappy. Then I smelled that my neighbour was cooking pasta with tomato sauce. I could smell any incfreadient, she added and it smelled so delicious that I was nearly crying because I could not have something like that.
Such an emotional state is certainly not healthy, neither. So, I made zucchini pasta (still quite simple, only with mashed tomatos and wild herbs as sauce) and enjoyed it. After that I was happy and could get my head off food.
After all, I would not condemn prepared food, altogether, we just should not forget wath the goal is.

[Ocean]

I agree with you about that. But I think that most people need that to transition into raw foods, esp when they are coming from a SAD diet standpoint.

It was hard for me to transition years ago when I was 19 years old and my parents were VERY strict with what we ate. We did not eat fast food, very very rarely we would order a pizza that would have black olives on it. If we ate dead animals, it was usually chickens and they were free range organic from local Amish farmers. It was easy for me to become vegetarian overnight in March 1998 (and I have stayed vegetarian since), but the sugar was hard to give up, also things like peanut butter toast and beans. We ate a lot of vegetarian bean soups when I was growing up.

So I can't imagine how difficult it is for people who consume a lot of fast food and meat products to transition. Kudos to them!

This time eating raw, it's been a lot easier. Haven't made anything except for carrot/apple juice. just eating big salads and fruits, sometimes fruit salad. But I did extensive raw in 2005 for about 4-5 months and I did sometimes try to make the raw pizza's/lasagnas, things like that.

It's great to be really getting into raw again now with all the yummy melons. Last week I cut the ends off of a watermelon and ate them, then later in the day I cut it into smaller pieces and ate them. Sooooo good!

I must say that I haven't given up my 2 pieces of Ezekial bread per day yet. At least I am not eating chocolate or ice cream (whether vegan or not) right now.

I agree that it is a life style and too many times I tried raw and failed because of that all or nothing mentality, and since I am doing this for health, I cannot afford to go back to eating sugar again.

Ocean

[juliew]

I know women have a hard time separating food from emotions, and if eating raw pizza keeps you from eating Pizza Hut, I'm all for it!

[Colorawdo girl]

.....amd why is this forum still drinking water?,,,hahahahahaha.....whatta hooty hoot hoot
No shouldas for sure....hahahahaha

[Gaius]

Are we sure about this??
Pretty sure. Look up "food combining"

[rawlight]

[B]"Isn't this just a way to desperately hang on to the foods that you're trying to get away from in the first place?"

This question always puzzled me when I ate fake meat. you know the 'crumbles' or 'smoked turkey?' People would say, "why would you eat something that looks like a hamburger?" I would say, "but it's NOT a hamburger. It's NOT meat, so what is the problem???" I just don't get this question...



If you're spending hours at the farmer's market and co-ops collecting ingredients, and laboring at the kitchen preparing those ingredients into some sort of "raw pizza", what difference is there from the person who goes to the grocery store to get the SAD ingredients to roll their own SAD pizza at home? Sure, one of them is healthier than the other, but they are both still rather obsessed with the thought of food, and there is nothing mentally healthy about that. A person of free spirit wouldn't put so much time into his or her food. They would just simply find something basic and eat it, so they can move on to meaningful activities much sooner.


I also think this is a strange comment. Do you know any 'foodies?' These are people who love everything about food and not just eating it. They love to try new foods, new ingredients. They love to experiment in the kitchen. They usually love to entertain and share their finds or talk to others about the latest gadget or food book or magazine. It is their passion.

I would call this 'free of spirit' because they love what they are doing, whether they are sitting down to the first watermelon of the season or a 5 course meal. I would much rather hang out with someone and their passion than someone else who couldn't appreciate it.

I think what you're missing is one person's 'free of spirit' and 'basic food' is different for each of us. To think someone who eats only mono meals is somehow 'freer' than someone who takes hours to prepare a many ingredients meal is a very false assumption.

[Ilse W.]

It's definitely an individual thing. I like simple foods. I've made a lot of the more complicated things, and yes they are harder to digest depending on ingredients. Now the most difficult thing I make is a green smoothie. I don't follow a recipe, just throw stuff in the blender. Or a salad, same concept without the blender. Pretty simple. Even non-raw or non-vegan/non-vegetarian stuff I eat mono. Everything tastes better (to me) that way.:D Good discussion (which is what the poster intended it to be, BTW)!

[RaeVynn]

If it weren't for raw recipes, my DH would never even try raw food!
As it is, he's nearly gotten his wheat/gluten dependency beaten, using dehydrated onion bread!
I love to whip up the occasional gourmet meal... always have. It's a form of art, of visible, taste-able Love.
Most days, I am pretty simple. Grapes, peaches, a few dates, maybe an avocado. Green smoothies. Others, I want a big bowl of chocolate mousse, darn it! :p

[debilana]

I am a foodie, I was a pastry chef/line cook/chef for 20 years, and my husband and daughter love to try the stuff I make- even tho they are dedicated sad eaters.

You are a single man, but imagine you live in a house surrounded by sad food, much of which you know you are addicted to- and you also work in peoples homes (I am a nanny/household manager) where they also eat that way. You are drowning in it, and on top of that, you cook for these people in both homes sometimes. Its a freaking relief to walk in the kitchen and make a simple salad, yes- but also an intense pleasure, as a foodie, to go into my own kitchen and come up with creations that rival any sad creations I used to make . I have a talent for sweets and it makes me happy and helps keep me on the raw path. I cannot change my family, but my child sure loves my raw granola tucked into her lunch, or a raw chocolate chop cookie, and its sure better for her and me than the sad version.

to each, their own path to health! :)

[gabriele]

Pretty sure. Look up "food combining"

I did:

Every Tuesday, Britain's leading nutritionist, Jane Clarke, explains how to eat your way to health. This week Jane tackles the food combining diet ...


Jane says: Food-combining doesn't make scientific sense. Our bodies are designed to digest different foods together, and there isn't any physiological reason why we can't digest and absorb proteins and carbohydrates from the same meal.
Different foods are broken down and absorbed in different parts of the body.
For instance, with sugars, this process starts in the mouth with the enzymes in our saliva. Some of the sugar is quickly absorbed through the mouth, which explains why we get an instant sugar hit from a chocolate bar, for instance.
More complex and difficult-to-digest foods, such as wholemeal bread and red meat, first have to be crushed and squeezed by the teeth and the muscles in the stomach before the enzymes which have been released into the small intestine can break them down into absorbable form.
This is why these foods take longer to digest. The plus side is that they keep us satisfied for longer. Some foods, such as wholewheat bread, can't be completely broken down and digested, which is why, nutritionally, these high-fibre foods are so wonderful for gut health. The undigested elements of fibrous foods produce fatty acids in the colon.
These prevent abnormal cell activity, reducing the risk of cancer and heart disease. High-fibre foods also help to produce softer stools that are easy for the gut to deal with.
Meanwhile our liver and pancreas produce digestive juices. These contain enzymes to digest proteins, some that digest carbohydrates, and others that work on fat. Why would the body do this if it wasn't meant to have all types of food put into it? It certainly does not put the body under any sort of strain eating both protein and carbohydrates in one meal.
Furthermore, most foods contain both carbohydrate and protein, so the theory of food combining just doesn't stack up.
There are people, however, who do feel much better when they separate these foods, but this has more to do with the fact that they are probably also choosing to eat very healthy foods. You don't, for instance, come across many people who swear by food combining yet whose diets are full of junk food or poor-quality ready meals.
So I suspect the reason foodcombiners feel so well is simply because they're eating a balanced diet.
There may also be an element of being aware of which foods suit us - and at what time of day they seem to sit more comfortably in our guts. For instance, I prefer to eat a meal with starchy pasta or rice in the evening rather than during the day, because I find it sits in my stomach more comfortably.
These foods also help to relax me, and give me that satisfying, comfortably full feeling that I like at the end of the day.
I prefer to have a protein-rich meal at lunchtime, say an omelette or a salad with some fish or chicken, as this suits me better - I don't feel too full or sleepy - but it's not for any food-combining reason.
Our state of mind has an enormous impact on how comfortable we feel eating different foods. Hormones released when we're feeling negative or angry (such as adrenaline and noradrelaline) make the muscles of the stomach and the intestine tighten.
These hormones also constrict the blood vessels supplying the gut, therefore our food can feel very uncomfortable inside and can cause symptoms of irritable bowel or indigestion.
This mind-body effect is why relaxation and meditation can work with people with digestive problems, as they can reset the way the gut works.
The converse of this is that if we're feeling happy and positive about the food we're putting into our body, the muscles of our gut are far more likely to relax and be in the best state to digest the food - which explains why we can feel good after eating specific foods.
This mentality also comes into play when we feel great about not putting foods together, and this is no bad thing. So it's really up to what you think suits you.
As for fruit after a meal, again there is no nutritional or physical reason why it shouldn't be eaten at this time, as we have the enzymes and the ability to deal with it.
The people this might affect are those with genuine digestive problems, such as irritable bowel syndrome or acid reflux, who may find that fruit sits uncomfortably or causes symptoms such as heartburn, as fruits contain quite a lot of natural acids.
But, nutritionally, there are strong reasons for having fruit after a meal: the vitamin C it contains helps the body to absorb iron, which is important for building new cells.
It is beneficial to eat fruit after a protein meal rather than having fruit on an empty stomach. The protein helps slow down the absorption of sugar, preventing the sugar swings that can unsettle some people.
We're always being told about the health benefits of garlic, but why don't onions get the same billing? After all, they belong to the same family as garlic, have a similar chemical make-up, and are more likely to be eaten by more people and in larger quantities than garlic. Bill Hayter, by email
Jane says: The difference is that garlic has a greater concentration of allicin.
This is an antibacterial and antiviral substance thought to be great for preventing colds and other infections, and helping us to recover from them.
Some people swear by making a raw garlic gargle (crushed garlic mixed with a little olive oil and hot water) when they have the first signs of a cold or a sore throat, or even chewing whole raw cloves - antisocial though this may be.
Studies do show that there is some method in their madness: the allicin in the garlic really can help the body recover faster. Onions also contain allicin, but not as much as garlic.
Onions and garlic also contain forms of sulphur that might prevent cells from behaving abnormally, and so reduce the risk of cancers, particularly of the stomach, colon and lungs. Again, garlic contains more.
It's worth noting that if you allow onions and garlic to reach room temperature for a good ten minutes before cooking, you increase the accumulation of sulphur.
Also, when you cook garlic you reduce the powers of the allicin - so, if you want the maximum health benefits, you've got to eat garlic raw.

[T-Bird]

Jane says: I'm through with sergio, he treats me like a rag doll.

[sarahrjm]

Janes addiction? lol

[Gaius]

This question always puzzled me when I ate fake meat. you know the 'crumbles' or 'smoked turkey?' People would say, "why would you eat something that looks like a hamburger?" I would say, "but it's NOT a hamburger. It's NOT meat, so what is the problem???" I just don't get this question...

You're missing their point. They never said it's a hamburger or meat. They're asking you what's the point of making your food look like meat if you're trying to avoid meat in the first place.



I also think this is a strange comment. Do you know any 'foodies?' These are people who love everything about food and not just eating it. They love to try new foods, new ingredients. They love to experiment in the kitchen. They usually love to entertain and share their finds or talk to others about the latest gadget or food book or magazine. It is their passion.

I would call this 'free of spirit' because they love what they are doing, whether they are sitting down to the first watermelon of the season or a 5 course meal. I would much rather hang out with someone and their passion than someone else who couldn't appreciate it.

I think what you're missing is one person's 'free of spirit' and 'basic food' is different for each of us. To think someone who eats only mono meals is somehow 'freer' than someone who takes hours to prepare a many ingredients meal is a very false assumption.
As I said in my original post, this does not apply to everybody. Some people are born to be chefs, even raw ones and that if that is what they want to do, that is fine. The point of my post if that most people would probably be better off with simple raw foods as it distances you further from a SAD diet.

[Ilse W.]

Jane needs to educate herself before spreading her "expert knowledge".

[rkk]

As I said in my original post, this does not apply to everybody. Some people are born to be chefs, even raw ones and that if that is what they want to do, that is fine. The point of my post if that most people would probably be better off with simple raw foods as it distances you further from a SAD diet.

If this was the point you were making in your original post, I would have agreed with you - as I think simple raw is beneficial in the long-term. It's good if we are able to get to a point someday where we aren't so obsessed with eating (with the exception of times we are inviting other people over and want to prepare a raw treat for them).

However, my issue with what you wrote is in your title line itself. It says "Aren't raw recipes kind of counterproductive towards true raw transition". Obviously that statement doesn't agree with myself nor many others here who have mentioned (whose statements you've ignored) that if they didn't have raw recipes, they wouldn't have been able to transition from SAD to raw foods. You can't just expect the majority of people who've been eating SAD foods to suddenly appreciate eating carrots or apples by themselves, after having spent 20, 30, or 40+ years eating foods with blended flavors.

If you are talking about transitioning, that is one thing. If you are talking about long-term, that is another thing. But you are inter-changing them which is the problem.

[T-Bird]

You're missing their point. They never said it's a hamburger or meat. They're asking you what's the point of making your food look like meat if you're trying to avoid meat in the first place.

Because you get to eat what your palate is used to and wanting yet no animals are harmed. Is the concept so difficult to comprehend?

[T-Bird]

However, my issue with what you wrote is in your title line itself. It says "Aren't raw recipes kind of counterproductive towards true raw transition". Obviously that statement doesn't agree with myself nor many others here who have mentioned (whose statements you've ignored) that if they didn't have raw recipes, they wouldn't have been able to transition from SAD to raw foods. You can't just expect the majority of people who've been eating SAD foods to suddenly appreciate eating carrots or apples by themselves, after having spent 20, 30, or 40+ years eating foods with blended flavors.

Right there with you rkk on this point!

Seems to me the purpose of the post was inflammatory and looking for argument.

Additionally, this is Alissa's site - an author of a raw book chuck full of recipes and a raw restaurant. So I see very little purpose in the post at all as this is clearly not the venue nor the audience for such smug, self-congratulatory philosophizing.

[Myca]

Hello, My name is Myca and I am addicted to food...

[LotsaRaw]

I have always derived great happiness from food prep (cooking, baking, BBQ, party presentations of food) - raw recipes allow me to continue with the pleasure and relaxation resulting from playing with my food :D (also, it has brought a slew of new challenges that has a fun learning curve)

[T-Bird]

From the wiki:


History of cooking

There is, as yet, no clear evidence as to when cooking was invented. Richard Wrangham argues that cooking was invented as far back as 1.8 million to 2.3 million years ago. Other researchers believe that cooking was invented as late as 40,000 or 10,000 years ago. Evidence of fire is inconclusive as wildfires started by lightning-strikes are still common in East Africa and other wild areas, and it is difficult to determine as to when fire was used for cooking, as opposed to just being used for warmth or for keeping predators away. Most anthropologists contend that cooking fires began in earnest barely 250,000 years ago, when ancient hearths, earth ovens, burnt animal bones, and flint appear across Europe and the middle East. Back 2 million years ago, the only sign of fire is burnt earth with human remains, which most anthropologists consider coincidence rather than evidence of intentional fire.[14]

Just for a little perspective on the whole thing. A lot can change in 40000 years!

[freshlight]

Gaius, I love your fresh thoughts :) For me-->Simple is always the best b/c less is more

[Eva]

It's 10pm and I'm drinking an almond milk, cacao and avocado smoothie. I sleep late though.

Interesting.

[Gaius]

Interesting.
That's about the same as a green smoothie, which is not a raw recipe, but nice try. :rolleyes:

[Gaius]

If this was the point you were making in your original post, I would have agreed with you - as I think simple raw is beneficial in the long-term. It's good if we are able to get to a point someday where we aren't so obsessed with eating (with the exception of times we are inviting other people over and want to prepare a raw treat for them).

However, my issue with what you wrote is in your title line itself. It says "Aren't raw recipes kind of counterproductive towards true raw transition". Obviously that statement doesn't agree with myself nor many others here who have mentioned (whose statements you've ignored) that if they didn't have raw recipes, they wouldn't have been able to transition from SAD to raw foods. You can't just expect the majority of people who've been eating SAD foods to suddenly appreciate eating carrots or apples by themselves, after having spent 20, 30, or 40+ years eating foods with blended flavors.

If you are talking about transitioning, that is one thing. If you are talking about long-term, that is another thing. But you are inter-changing them which is the problem.
The only issue here is that you are focusing on the footwork while I am talking about the destination. You can be in transition forever on these raw recipes but there is still something that you are in transit to that is only hampered by eating these imitations of SAD cookery.

I can see where you are having an issue though, and if you want me to change the title, I can do that.

[Springtime]

The only issue here is that you are focusing on the footwork while I am talking about the destination.

We all have very different destinations, Gaius. There is not one "raw destination", there are as many as there are raw foodists.

eating foods that looks like "regular" food is only a transitional phase if you choose to see it like that, which i belive happens if you have a desire to end up at a specific "raw destination" that is somewhere else. And some of us have that desire, whilst others don't.

I can't see why we need to change our relationship to food from being an enjoyable and big part of our lives, to being "nutrition" and nothing but. I never liked that futuristic idea of only having a pill of nutrition once a day, or the Matrix porrige, that someone mentioned in another post. For me and many others food is so much more than nutrition, and keeping it that way does not make us addicts or obsessive or transitional, it just makes us who we are.

Your true raw transition is your true raw transition, and my true raw transition is mine. Neither is better or worse, they just are.

Peace

[RawHeaven]

We all have very different destinations, Gaius. There is not one "raw destination", there are as many as there are raw foodists.

Yes.

After reading the comments following my first post, I'm really feeling where everyone is on this topic. And it makes it pretty apparent that there is not one, single "right" way to do it. I love food and I used to love preparing recipes, baking, hosting parties for my friends pre-raw. I believe food is fuel, but as an earthy woman I love the sensuality of food. And to echo what others have said about the "recipes", I totally got into making gourmet raw from this perspective. I was in bliss actually...on a much higher level than when I prepared SAD and cooked vegetarian cuisine in the past. Living foods bring love to the mind, body and soul. And they're fun to make. I'm also a creative artist and I enjoy creating in any context. Food preparation is right up there in the same league for me.

The more I eat raw foods, the more I appreciate the many choices we have with regard to eating food of any kind on this planet. I hold no judgment that SAD is horribly bad or Raw is the supremely very best or vice versa. With the exception of cruelty to animals & consuming dead flesh in food preparation, that’s where I do draw the line. But if someone wants to eat fake meat and this works for them, who am I to judge that? I used to eat it often when I was a cooked vegan. Kind of hypocritical depending on how you look at it, but I got out of judging myself too! I have come a very long way myself and it was a change that sprouted from within. Pun very much intended. My paradigm shift was not based on some perfect place I should be, but rather where I happened to be in the moment. I personally don’t care how someone transitions, that is their business. I think it would be very ego centered of me to jump in and tell them otherwise. The more I read the comments in this thread, the clearer this truth becomes for me. Not to say I haven’t been there! Some may be surprised to hear me say this after reading some of my previous posts. LOL. I have for sure had strong ego centered opinions! I have learned the very hard way to respect my loved ones and fellow raw foodist’s personal choices by letting them BE. This has made my raw lifestyle experience even sweeter. Their energy has shifted as well as they embrace my personal raw food choices without judgment.

I think this is a very complex theme with diverse answers because we are all different. I can’t say it enough that I’m really appreciating everyone's experience and thoughts on the subject, including Gaius, the OP. It will definitely help me provide compassionate guidance when I’m assisting others in their transition to raw foods. As far as I’m concerned, any (raw food) awareness at all from someone who’s deeply immersed in the popular food culture that is the Standard American Diet (insert your own nation) is a miracle. And I’m here to fan the flames of this miracle spark, not put it out!

Peace.

[Gaius]

All I have to say is that this a two-way street. Just as there are some unique, food-oriented people who prefer the complexity of a raw recipe over the boredom of basic eating, there are people who have misled themselves into believing that they should be like the recipe-lovers when in fact their personality is geared more toward basic eating. This thread is to help guide the latter towards a better path for themselves. The former can do as they wish.

[Eva]

I know this is going to make some people upset, but hopefully, we can all be mature enough to see that this suggestion isn't meant to repress, but to free some minds out there.

Let me preface by saying that this is simply what being raw means to me, and it doesn't mean that everybody should adopt my views. My only goal is to stir the thoughts of some people out there who have yet to truly feel free on a raw diet.

------------------------------------------------------

Sometimes I look at all these recipes that try to turn raw food into their own version of SAD food, like lasagna, pizza, burgers, etc and I think:

"Isn't this just a way to desperately hang on to the foods that you're trying to get away from in the first place?"

"Isn't this just increasing your chances of relapsing into a SAD diet?"

Some of you will probably say: "We're expressing our creativity by making raw versions of SAD foods!" but really, you're not. There's nothing original about making a pizza out of raw food. There just isn't. Unless you're making it your life's work to become a raw chef, creativity in how you prepare your food is simply a waste of time, and here why:

Eating raw should not be about keeping yourself mentally enslaved by the thoughts and obsession with food, as these recipes clearly entail. Eating raw should be about FREEING yourself from the modern obsession with food. The ultimate goal of this lifestyle isn't to go from SAD to raw recipes. The ultimate goal is to complete a paradigm shift where you begin to eat to live rather than living to eat; and that eating raw lets you live to the fullest.

If you're spending hours at the farmer's market and co-ops collecting ingredients, and laboring at the kitchen preparing those ingredients into some sort of "raw pizza", what difference is there from the person who goes to the grocery store to get the SAD ingredients to roll their own SAD pizza at home? Sure, one of them is healthier than the other, but they are both still rather obsessed with the thought of food, and there is nothing mentally healthy about that. A person of free spirit wouldn't put so much time into his or her food. They would just simply find something basic and eat it, so they can move on to meaningful activities much sooner.

Let's face it: when most of us were eating SAD; we really weren't living our lives to the fullest. Instead, we were filling the emptiness in our lives with food, thoughts of food, meaningless activities centered around making and eating food, and so on. Don't fall into the same trap by spending inordinate amounts of time and energy into recipes, as it really just serves as an unhealthy distraction from what really matters: your life.

This doesn't sound anything like a helpful guide to some people.

And speaking of "some people being helpfully guided" and kidding ourselves, almond milk (a recipe that I thoroughly enjoy for which the name implies it is mimicking cow pus) with cacao and avocado (all together yet another recipe) is something I wouldn't even want to drink because of the drug-like and harmful effects of the cacao.

But do I think YOU "shouldn't" choose to have that at 10pm if you wish? Actually, I think it's your prerogative. Plain and simple. Who am I to say if that's not good for you to drink any ANY time of day?

Honestly, I don't even know why I'm wasting my time with sharing my thoughts since it seems you just want to defend the original post rather than accept that the world does NOT revolve around you.

Oh, well.

[Gaius]

This doesn't sound anything like a helpful guide to some people.
That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. However you should acknowledge two things:

1) This statement is judgmental.
2) This statement ignores all the positive comments to my post and simply assumes it couldn't possibly help anybody. If every comment after my post were negative, you MAY have a point, but...



And speaking of "some people being helpfully guided" and kidding ourselves, almond milk (a recipe that I thoroughly enjoy for which the name implies it is mimicking cow pus) with cacao and avocado (all together yet another recipe) is something I wouldn't even want to drink because of the drug-like and harmful effects of the cacao.
So you dug up a recipe I created that is no different than a green smoothie. Big deal. I agree with you on the cacao though, it was far too stimulating and ruined the drink I made that night. I usually use almond milk to make my smoothies more smooth and I figured that I'd experiment with the raw cacao I bought at the store.



But do I think YOU "shouldn't" choose to have that at 10pm if you wish?
You obviously do. Otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned it. It's ok to judge me though, it's within your right.



Actually, I think it's your prerogative. Plain and simple. Who am I to say if that's not good for you to drink any ANY time of day?
Aw, come on, you know I was such a naughty boy for doing that and I agree that it was probably not proper for me to do so. I sleep late though, and I tend to eat before bedtime, which is usually around midnight to 2am for me.



Honestly, I don't even know why I'm wasting my time with sharing my thoughts since it seems you just want to defend the original post rather than accept that the world does NOT revolve around you.

Oh, well.
I never said the world revolves around me nor do I believe that is so, but if you are assuming that I do because of my post, can't I assume the same about you considering how thoroughly you judged me in accordance to what you believe to be proper? Yes, I can, and we both have the right to do so.

[Veganelle]

I for one don't see a problem with prepared foods as long as it's raw. And my experience has been that the so-called "imitations" that we've created, such as pizza and crepes and burritos, have actually far surpassed the originals in terms of tastiness, presentation, and most importantly, how they made me feel afterwards. Of course, it has been over 22 years since I've eaten a SAD version of a pizza, so my memory may be a bit foggy. But my boyfriend, who became vegan much more recently than I, swears that our raw pizzas blow away the old cheese and pepperoni laden beasts.

I can definitely see the allure of a simple diet of whole unprepared fruits and veg and smoothies, and will likely transition towards that style of eating eventually.... but for now I'm enjoying the creativity and fun of making things.

[RawHeaven]

All I have to say is that this a two-way street. Just as there are some unique, food-oriented people who prefer the complexity of a raw recipe over the boredom of basic eating, there are people who have misled themselves into believing that they should be like the recipe-lovers when in fact their personality is geared more toward basic eating. This thread is to help guide the latter towards a better path for themselves. The former can do as they wish.

This is exactly what I was seeing in terms of being in the Ego which impacts us all so no judgement on that. Who are we to say that people's personalities keep them from eating simple raw foods? Even if it were true and I'm sure it is in certain circumstances, I think the statement you're making is highly insulting to others... because #1 they could very well be aware of their "personality" and are making a personal choice despite how it might impact them. They will get whereever they're going in due time and when it suits them and their own personal journey. Are you the almighty all-knowing raw food leader that dictates who can consume a recipe and who can bite into an apple? Making such a statement on my part may seem ludicrous, but it's the energy I'm picking up. I have really tried to remain neutral with your comments, but I'm finding it increasingly more difficult to do so without keeping my mouth shut. I'm not trying to change your beliefs as I think they're firmly rooted in the moment, but I will share I think you're really talking about yourself and your own experience. Which is what we're all doing pretty much isn't it in this forum and as we move through life? It is most definately a two way street, but you're traveling on a one-way street right now.

[Gaius]

I think the statement you're making is highly insulting to others... because #1 they could very well be aware of their "personality" and are making a personal choice despite how it might impact them. Are you the almighty all-knowing raw food leader that dictates who can consume a recipe and who can bite into an apple? Making such a statement on my part may seem ludicrous, but it's the energy I'm picking up.
No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that some people may just be following what recipe enthusiasts are doing.

[betty boop]

All I have to say is that this a two-way street. Just as there are some unique, food-oriented people who prefer the complexity of a raw recipe over the boredom of basic eating, there are people who have misled themselves into believing that they should be like the recipe-lovers when in fact their personality is geared more toward basic eating. This thread is to help guide the latter towards a better path for themselves. The former can do as they wish.

I seem to be one of those people. I thought I had to eat nuts and sprouts and the various imitations of SAD food to get a well-rounded diet but the past couple days sugar and SAD cravings have come back bigtime for me. I am positive it is from eating the raw cookies and raw homemade larabars. For me, those raw recipes were definitely counterproductive towards my raw journey. Now all I can think of is chips and dip and Mississippi Mud Pie, I even went and bought a pint Haagan Daz and I haven't even thought of those SAD foods for 5 months!!

[Green_Woman]

I also think this is a strange comment. Do you know any 'foodies?' These are people who love everything about food and not just eating it. They love to try new foods, new ingredients. They love to experiment in the kitchen. They usually love to entertain and share their finds or talk to others about the latest gadget or food book or magazine. It is their passion.

I would call this 'free of spirit' because they love what they are doing, whether they are sitting down to the first watermelon of the season or a 5 course meal. I would much rather hang out with someone and their passion than someone else who couldn't appreciate it.

I think what you're missing is one person's 'free of spirit' and 'basic food' is different for each of us. To think someone who eats only mono meals is somehow 'freer' than someone who takes hours to prepare a many ingredients meal is a very false assumption.

+1

Well said. :)

[RawYorkCity]

I don't see the harm in making a salad look more fancy, or cutting fruit in a way that displays it in a culinary sense of beauty. I don't think anyone is willing to admit that raw versions of SAD food (pizza, lasagna, ect...) are more healthy for the body than a bunch of bananas, but they still serve a roll in the transition process.

[ruffsongraw]

i think to each his/her own. if somebody likes to prepare raw dishes that are elaborate or fancy and eat them OR serve them---that is their choice. it doesnt make them any less "Raw". if somebody else woudl rather throw together a salad or serve fruit, that is their perogitive also. just like the same could be said about SAD ppl choosing to *cook* fancy dishes vs somebody who doesnt and makes simple things.

it ought to not be any kind of measuring stick of progress or "transition". some ppl "transition" from simple into MORE complicated or less complicated. i get in moods where i *feel like* making fancy stuff. most days i just want a smoothie or salad or fruit roll.
some parts of this thread make it sound like imitating SAD dishes is a stepping stone toward more simple raw, as if that is the ultimate goal and for many it isnt. raw is raw. for me it primarily boils down to how much time i have to devote to preparation.

shrug.

jen

[gabriele]

For me, a really new person to this lifestyle, i think it all boils down to culture and society. We (I) have been inundated, flooded, surrounded by certain images and experiences with foods all of our lives in the form of meat dishes, pizza, cookies, processed and refined goodies all over the place, in society, on TV, at work, at social events, everywhere. So when people try to recreate these dishes it's because it's ingrained in there that this is what we eat. It's taking me a while to see a smoothie as a meal!! I wish i had the talent to make interesting raw dishes but i just do not and i'm not going to push myself. A smoothie is a major accomplishment for me!!

[freelive]

I think, it is all good. If eating simple things feels the best, then do that, if eating complicated dishes- do that. And allow others to do the same. There is no wrong or right here. Just what works for you. Life is not a competition for rightness. Choose
do you want to feel good
or
to be right

[RawHeaven]

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that some people may just be following what recipe enthusiasts are doing.

Then I misread the energy of your post and apologize.

[Eva]

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. However you should acknowledge two things:

1) This statement is judgmental.
2) This statement ignores all the positive comments to my post and simply assumes it couldn't possibly help anybody. If every comment after my post were negative, you MAY have a point, but...


If you intended the spirit of the post to be positive, you would not have disregarded how many people find pleasure in what you referred to as desperation.



So you dug up a recipe I created that is no different than a green smoothie. Big deal. I agree with you on the cacao though, it was far too stimulating and ruined the drink I made that night. I usually use almond milk to make my smoothies more smooth and I figured that I'd experiment with the raw cacao I bought at the store.

Gaius! It's a recipe. What made you the raw food recipe police to put people who make other recipes against the wall. Almond milk is a recipe. Shakes are recipes. Green smoothies are recipes.



You obviously do. Otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned it. It's ok to judge me though, it's within your right.



No, I really don't. That's my point. We all draw different lines with different things. I'm saying live and let live! If you want to have cacao parties (some people do!) and have your theobromine for 24 hours straight... it's cool with me. I sort of laugh at this because I'm a little too subdued to enjoy such craziness. Now for me the crazy stuff is making a NOTzarella and tomato salad for friends along with a pesto pasta and raw gelato. That's a crazy day. And most days, I have a smoothie, a salad, maybe some grapes, an avocado, whatever. Whatever I want, really. No judgment on myself for that either! I don't CARE if the raw food police try to come after me! (My home address is unlisted anyhow. They won't find me.)



Aw, come on, you know I was such a naughty boy for doing that and I agree that it was probably not proper for me to do so. I sleep late though, and I tend to eat before bedtime, which is usually around midnight to 2am for me.


Hey -- if you think it was naughty and enjoyed it -- GREAT. Seriously. I won't "should" on you if you don't "should" on me. Heck, I won't "should" on you either way.




I never said the world revolves around me nor do I believe that is so, but if you are assuming that I do because of my post, can't I assume the same about you considering how thoroughly you judged me in accordance to what you believe to be proper? Yes, I can, and we both have the right to do so.

I don't have a belief on what is proper for you! I have a belief that big girls and boys can make big girl and boy decisions without needing supervision from either of us!

---

And just a note... Because I want you to know. I'm thoroughly enjoying this discussion and SMILING as I write this.

(More like :) <--that than that --> :D
... But DEFINITELY smiling. I'm enjoying the debate.

And no matter what... I'll keep on doing what I do. I'm not "copying" any of the raw food chefs out there so I can be just like them and make raw "pizza" or "burgers". I'm just enjoying myself the best I can.

And honestly... I think you raised some great points. Some people responded that they DO find that more gourmet food gives them cravings. That actually used to happen to me, but when I hadn't screwed enough recipes up yet to know how to make them come out yummy. Now, I'm over it. Raw food is good food, simple or gourmet. The other stuff is pretty gross.

OK. And extra smile for you. I'm off to enjoy the last few hours of sunlight. :) :)

[Green_Woman]

Raw food is good food, simple or gourmet.

So right, Eva!

I know when I was visiting northern California last year, it was SO wonderful to have a few meals at CAFE GRATITUDE, especially those fantastic raw cheesecakes! So delicious. I'm getting a happy dreamy smile thinking about them now.... :)


In fact, Mr. A and I were thinking to have a raw food chef prepare some C.Gratitude recipes for our wedding.... I'm not sure if you CAN make a 3-tier raw cake, but it sure would be lovely if you could. :D

[Tee42]

"When you begin this diet, yes it's vital that you make a lot of dishes, buy a lot of food, and take food with you wherever you go." - Alissa Cohen Living on Live Food

"At some point you'll need to make this diet as simple and easy as possible: the way it was meant to be." - Alissa Cohen Living on Live Food

"We're not all carved out of a single cookie-cutter." - Alissa Cohen Living on Live Food

[pixie_333]

This question always puzzled me when I ate fake meat. you know the 'crumbles' or 'smoked turkey?' People would say, "why would you eat something that looks like a hamburger?" I would say, "but it's NOT a hamburger. It's NOT meat, so what is the problem???" I just don't get this question...


boca burgers etc was extremely helpful for me transitioning when i went vegetarian many years ago. i knew/know the stuff was junk, but it tastes great and it would of made it a HeCk of a lot harder on me not having that available to eat...varities etc.

and so they come in shapes like a burger, hot dog whatever... hey it's designed to fit inbetween the slaps of bread! food colorings are added to nearly everything anyways.
and yeah sometimes mind tricks can help with shapes and simular tastes to meat.. we came from a major addiction to something new.

on another note...raw foods i personaly believe mono eating is the best. but transitioning... i basicaly feel the same way about it as with cooked food vegetarian transitioning in my experiences.
i haven't tried any gourmet yet, but yes food combinding.

[Chris T]

I like how everyone "agrees" at first with ya Gaius, but then comes the "but...". I think you raised a great point. Keep things simple. Sure once in a while why not try some crazy receipe, but to me also the whole point of going raw is to take food as it's grown, not mess with it.

[selina_k]

I can only speak for myself. I believe in individuality.

My truth is that a high fat raw gourmet recipe does not feel as "good" as a lowfat cooked vegan recipe. (If given only those two choices)

I feel better with a plate of beans, rice and greens than a plate of rawnachos or similar. The gain in "enzymes" is negated by the gain in "fat".

So..yeah. I should probably avoid recipes altogether!

Do I?

Yeah. Mostly. Pretty much. I eat very healthfully and I'm good with it.

Others to their otherness.

[Green_Woman]

Chris - Not everyone agreed with the OP. :)


"When you begin this diet, yes it's vital that you make a lot of dishes, buy a lot of food, and take food with you wherever you go." - Alissa Cohen Living on Live Food

"At some point you'll need to make this diet as simple and easy as possible: the way it was meant to be." - Alissa Cohen Living on Live Food

"We're not all carved out of a single cookie-cutter." - Alissa Cohen Living on Live Food

+1

If everyone thought the same, or pursued their RAW journey, the same way I did, I would think the world would become very dull and boring... ;)

[EZ rider]

I have found that the more complicated the food is the more "pull" I feel pulling me off course. For example after eating something gourmet I feel more temptation to eat things I normally don't eat including non raw foods and also I tend to eat more quantity of food then I usually do. This may be a coincidence but it seems to be that the more complicated the food the more "pull" I experience. Anyone else notice this tendency ?

[Gaius]

I have found that the more complicated the food is the more "pull" I feel pulling me off course. For example after eating something gourmet I feel more temptation to eat things I normally don't eat including non raw foods and also I tend to eat more quantity of food then I usually do. This may be a coincidence but it seems to be that the more complicated the food the more "pull" I experience. Anyone else notice this tendency ?
Nah, that's not a coincidence. It's a mental thing. By eating complicated foods, you remind yourself of what eating SAD food was like.

[Green_Woman]

I eat both mono foods, and occasionally, recipes.

For me, the journey is a daily choice. :)

I certainly loved Cafe Gratitude's raw pizza and "cheesecakes"! :Q

I am learning that trying to convince others that their way is wrong, because it doesn't fit what is right for me, is a very stressful way to spend ones' time.

And on that note, I will slip out of this thread because I don't want to be doing what I just said I'm learning NOT to do. ;)

[freshlight]

I am learning that trying to convince others that their way is wrong, because it doesn't fit what is right for me, is a very stressful way to spend ones' time.

wonderful, Green Woman! I would even add:not only is it stressful but useless as well. In some cases it does even push folks in the opposite direction

[Gaius]

I am learning that trying to convince others that their way is wrong, because it doesn't fit what is right for me, is a very stressful way to spend ones' time.
Passive aggressive much? Love the bold font. :rolleyes:



And on that note, I will slip out of this thread because I don't want to be doing what I just said I'm learning NOT to do. ;)
You just did what you told people they shouldn't be doing, yet tried to remove yourself from your actions in the same post. Incredible.

[commoncents]

Having something aesthetically pleasing to the eyes can be just as good for your health as nutrition. A meal doesn't have to be simply nutrition, but an experience for your mind and senses. Maybe raw foodists who make sad food look-a-likes feel liberated when they see a "SAD" food that actually boosts your vitality. Like magic they turned something debilitating into something healing.



Great point!!!

[T-Bird]

but to me also the whole point of going raw is to take food as it's grown, not mess with it.

That was never my point!



I mess with the food a lot - spinach pineapple and banana in the blender. Wow! That food is messed up nasty!!!!!!


And tastily so!

[RawKnitster]

There is no more meaningful activity for me than creating something wonderful and beautiful that people can enjoy. And that includes food. I let my Free Aquarian Spirit soar when I'm shopping for food or in the kitchen creating a new dish. Presently, I'm trying to figure out how to make a living doing just that.

I have always been a foodie with an intense love of creating food. Going raw hasn't changed that. In fact, without that love of good food I probably would not be celebrating my one year raw anniversary.

I'm sure you didn't mean to slap anyone in the face, but I see that in the comments of many people, on this thread and elsewhere, who think their simple raw choices are superior.

"Wouldn't it be a drag if we were all the same."

[gabriele]

I'm sure you didn't mean to slap anyone in the face, but I see that in the comments of many people, on this thread and elsewhere, who think their simple raw choices are superior.

"Wouldn't it be a drag if we were all the same."

I wish i had the talent to prepare food and enjoy doing it, it's just not me. So i envy you. IN the end, all of us here are still eating much healthier than SAD people. Creating food or not. We are all struggling and learning in our own ways to eat the healthiest way we can. Who cares how we get there?

[commoncents]

In mostly every aspect of life that I encounter, you have someone like the OP who feels the need to point out a "better" way of doing something and how those doing it the other way are somehome missing out on something or doing it wrong. It is very interesting for me to see this in so many areas of life.

I visit the mother boards alot. (Even though I'm not a mother), and you see this sort of thing quite a bit. Whether to breast feed vs. bottle milk. Stay at home with the kiddies vs. working mom. Each conversation always turns out as this one has (much more heated in most cases), and it always leaves me with the question:

Why can't we just congratulate each other on the ways in which we do life differently and leave it at that?

[RawKnitster]

Why can't we just congratulate each other on the ways in which we do life differently and leave it at that?

Your living up to your name with that sentiment. :)


Reminds me of my husband's family gatherings. Everybody has an opinion, and they are all right. :)

[commoncents]

Your living up to your name with that sentiment. :)


Reminds me of my husband's family gatherings. Everybody has an opinion, and they are all right. :)

LOL. Reminds me of my family. I always have to remind myself that opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one. LOL.

[Green_Woman]

Commoncents - I had half a mind to post the same sentiment (re-worded)... "Opinions are like butts. We all have one, and they all stink."

:D

[commoncents]

Commoncents - I had half a mind to post the same sentiment (re-worded)... "Opinions are like butts. We all have one, and they all stink."

:D

LOL--Green Woman: That works as well!!!

[theresaann]

I agree with you, but people have to be ready to go to a low fat raw, ie, 80/10/10, or just fruit and greens with small fats, etc...which is really the most sustainable way to do raw, as its most aligned with our natural diet.

People have to be ready EMOTIONALLY, as its so high vibe, and its hard to deal with emotions until one is ready/able to. But it is, for sure, hands down, by far, without question, the BEST way to eat. No question. is everyone READY for that? nope. but it IS the best. I stand by that.

[theresaann]

one more comment-"transition". a few folks here acknowledged that complicated recipes and not so digestible food combinations are helpful while "transitioning."

Transition implies a state of process between two points. So, what is the outcome of transition then? I think we all know that its to eat as purely as possible. But what if we don't WANT to eat as purely as possible, aren't ready, willing, etc? Are we then going to stay in "transition?"

Maybe. And someone can stay in transition, or not, or whatever, however they want to. Its their life, their health, their destiny. No judgments....just observations and subjective experiences....

I think the more evolved and awake we become, the more conscious we become, the less we want to stay in any level of lower vibration, even if its complicated raw recipes that leave us feeling bloated and exacerbate candida overgrowth and not losing weight. ok....my subjective experience!

[Raw Angel Mom]

I just want to say congratulations to all of you for doing this raw journey. No matter how you do it, just the fact that you include more plant foods in your diet is amazing. And also the fact that you are willing to try a raw food diet is even more amazing. On top of that to be vegan, just wow.

I wish you all well and i recommend that you read the China Study. After reading this, it made me realize that the fact that i am now vegan and free from any animal protein, that i achieved already a beautiful goal. Doing raw food to the optimum or doing life food like some may say to the optimun is ok but just for me that i am vegan is huge and i am happy with that. As i share so many time, i just let my body guide me and don't try to be too religious about my diet but more to be at peace with where i am.

I wish you a wonderful experience and journey.

I want to Honor Allissa Cohen because without her insight, experience and wisdom, i would never have dare trying to be 100% raw. I love her phylosophy and i am very grateful for this message board that she created.
Sending blessings to each one of you!

[commoncents]

Thank you Raw Mom. Very beautifully stated!!!!!

Just being able to be a vegan is a mountaintop experience for me.

Everything else is gravy!!!!!

[Raw Angel Mom]

Thank you Raw Mom. Very beautifully stated!!!!!

Just being able to be a vegan is a mountaintop experience for me.

Everything else is gravy!!!!!

(((Thank you)))

[GlimR]

I think the bottom line for all of us is that we follow this path as individuals and hopefully progress toward the end that resonates with us as the "best" way for us. I have no preconceived notions that anyone else has to or should do things the way that works for me. It is a matter of fine tuning what works, what doesn't...what makes us feel our best, what slows us down. Listening to the body, paying attention to how we feel and how those things tie together a positive life experience...it is as simple as that.

When I read posts regarding too much salt, too much fat, not enough fruit, too much fruit, simple vs gourmet it really could make a person wonder what the heck to do at all if they are not just paying attention to their own selves. Why are people who post these threads paying so much attention to what "others" are doing? Is it an attempt to educate self or those reading? I have no issue with people asking questions in an attempt to learn as much as they can but why ask when you believe you already know the answer?

To each his own is the only way raw truly works~

Bright blessings to each~

[les]

I don't appreciate Gaius's smug atttitude. I am a foodie, I love and appreciate all different types of raw food--from the simpliest in-season strawberry to the "pumpkin" pie in Raw Food, Real World. Maybe Gaius is lacking passion toward food and is trying to make up for it by attacking those of us who like to "create" with food.