Different views on raw, and "doing it wrong"

[Springtime]

I just watched an episode of Raw food world tv show, with paul nison, who seemed very agressive compared to other raw foodists i've seen on the show.

After watching that i waltzed around the internet and found so many things i've never read before. How there are raw "gurus" who blame people for "doing it all wrong", on over eating, cacao, fats, fruits, eating at night, eating in the morning, what ratio of what nutritients, supplements or not, oils or not, sprouts or not... Phew...

I had NO IDEA that the raw food world was so filled with controverse. I've been happily thinking it's above/beyond the "regular" dieting wars where nutritionists blame one another and one antoher's followers for "doing it all wrong".

Right now i just feel terrible, ashamed that i thought it was all right and that we were all doing good listening to our bodies. I mean, i know i have nothing to feel bad about, but all these aggressive men yelling about "wrong, wrong, wrong," or "bad, bad, bad" just gets to me.

How can raw fruits and vegetables and nuts be wrong? It makes no sense to me. I understand that if you are trying to cure a specific disease certain foods might be extra beneficial. But other that that... I mean, how did this happen? They went raw, got an abundance of energy, and decided to spend that energy on arguing wheater blueberries are better than tomatoes?

I just needed to vent. I'm not taking it personal, i'm just upset about the fact that these people are arguing over such teeny tiny things, when we could all be supporting one another.

Peace

[juliew]

OMG are you right. There is a raw food expert/colon therapist named Gil, who is listed in Paul Nisson's book. When I went to see him, he goes "Don't read all those raw food books, they are all wrong."
So each of these people thinks they have it right and that all the other ways of doing raw is wrong. To this I say: They can only possibly have mastered what works for THEIR BODY. This in no way means that other ways of doing raw are wrong!!
Halleliuah to your post!

[ruffsongraw]

umm....i think these ppl have a vested financial interest in persuading somebody to do it *their* way, buy *their* book, *their* supplement....yada yada. and hand in hand with promoting *their* shpiel is bad-mouthing somebody else's.

it's very sad when, even in this arena, many times it still boils down to the almighty dollar. i think listening to your body, using common sense, reading UN-BIASED research (not opinion) and focusing on particular things one might need for a particular condition is the best we can do. that's how i look at it & i am not a devout "follower" of anybody.....

:)
jen

[Dimond]

Just don't worry about it. Keep paying attention to your body. I listen to the experts and research info and then take from it what I feel is the best for me. There's no one way to do anything really.

I also stick with the long-term raw foodists that resonate with me & seem to be living an ideal life both health-wise and in the rest of their lives.

[jesslcochran]

There really isn't a "wrong" way to do this diet. There are ways that may seem better than others.

I've found this diet very freeing. I don't have to count calories or not have desert. I can have healthy foods that I don't have to worry about.

There are some ways of doing it that probably are unhealthy. But with proper research a person can easily find what works for them. We're all unique and our bodies won't react the same. What works well for one might not work at all for another.

I think those "gurus" have forgotten that.

*hugs*
Jess

[gabriele]

I had NO IDEA that the raw food world was so filled with controverse. I've been happily thinking it's above/beyond the "regular" dieting wars where nutritionists blame one another and one antoher's followers for "doing it all wrong".

Peace

There is a lot of confusion and a lot of dogma and even fanaticism surrounding this topic. I think one reason, aside from people trying to make money, is that we are the only "animal" who doesn't instinctively know what to eat. We are the only animal that cooks and alters it's food. We are so far removed from where we originally evolved that we need to read books, take lessons and watch DVD's to "learn" what to eat!!! I think what we are all trying to do here is the best way, and i have learned after 55 years, to finally just listen to my body and eat what i feel like eating.

[T-Bird]

I am so with you!

I am developing a distaste for the "professional raw"ers.....

Just today, I was looking to get involved in some local raw potlucks, there are 2 meetup.com groups in my area - one is solely focused around this one guys restaurant. Everything is at his restaurant, most of the events are his classes - NOT cheap, - OR little soirees to promote his restaurant, box meal program, or detox classes - for the 4 detox meetings plus the food and herbs he charges 895 dollars.

Raw food healing the world?? I think that dream is up in smoke.

Too many people trying to get rich off of raw.

And it's all just opinion! Every one's got their own philosophy, citing animal behavior or whatever, with little acknowledgment that NObody knows for sure.

So I am down with the OP 100%. Very disappointing.

[pixie_333]

geez.. $895??!!! is it that place by wrigley field? i just moved from chicago last year but never stopped in to that restaurant.
really.. for that amount of doe you could build a green house. get a homeless person/family an apartment.
i'd suppose those raw vegan places don't rake in the bucks so how else would they make it?
and i heard "natures first law" is a total copy cat off of a book written by somebody about 30 years ago. i forget the name of the book.
but generaly aurthors have to be somewhat different to draw a name in.. even if they don't fully believe in what they preach. also i'd think if they discovered they were wrong in teachings they'd likely still say they are right because of book sales and purhaps get sued.

[artgirly4]

I am developing a distaste for the "professional raw"ers.....

T-Bird. I have been there for quite some time. I am walkin talkin rawkin my way and loving it.

There is no doing raw wrong. Information overload.

[klomasius]

This is why I have championed intuitive eating so much!

People can get confused with all the conflicting messages out there and the fact that so many people passionately believe in sometimes diametrically opposed ways of eating raw.

Eating raw is a lifestyle, and we have to peel back the layers of dogma to sit down and listen to the conversation our bodies are trying to have with us.

The long and the short of it is that no 'guru' is going to know how you can best live the raw lifestyle. The best they will be able to do is tell you the names of the chapters in the Book of the Body and point you in the right direction.

In The Book of the Body, each chapter will read slightly (or sometimes dramatically) differently for each person, the only way for you to read the text of the chapters is to enter into a dialogue with your own body. The text will reveal itself as you have this ongoing conversation.

Only you can write your own Book of the Body as only you can have a proper indepth conversation with your body.

A raw lifestyle is not simply just about nutrition in, waste out, it's about reading our key health indicators, listening to our bodies, enjoying the pleasure of foods as well as their nutritional qualities, decreasing the factors that make our bodies function at less than optimal but understanding that functioning is not just on a physical, but an emotional and spiritual level as well.

Be confident that you will eventually be able to read your own chapters, take the time to be quiet and listen, don't worry about the Sh*tstorm happening above you, just head in the direction that feels right betwen your mind and your body.

:D

[Gaius]

There IS a way to do raw the wrong way though. Some raw foods are toxic.

[Everchanging]

Thanks everyone for speaking out against this. I get really anxious when I read some of the extreme stuff! Someone just asked in another post about grounding techniques, and I think taking a deep breath and Feeling and listening is a great one.

[EatRaw]

I had NO IDEA that the raw food world was so filled with controverse.

How can raw fruits and vegetables and nuts be wrong? It makes no sense to me. I understand that if you are trying to cure a specific disease certain foods might be extra beneficial. But other that that... I mean, how did this happen? They went raw, got an abundance of energy, and decided to spend that energy on arguing wheater blueberries are better than tomatoes?

Peace

Hi Springtime! You and I know that Raw food works...right? We also know that we have to listen to our bodies...right? I ate blueberries this morning :D felt GOOD to ME. I also ate tomatoes in my salad this evening w/ onion,carrot,cucumber,celery,napa cabbage,romaine....topped with Alissa's...aaa..crap..can't remember the name...but made with a avo and cuke and honey...I love it.

I think...that we all have different approches/reacations to raw food...I also feel that we each get different results. I FEEL also ...that... just pay attention to your bodies messages...I also FEEL this really takes time and intense concentration on YOUR BODY...just YOURS...JUST LISTEN! ;) IT will TELL YOU! IMO...

I know we like to pay attention to guru's...and follow their lead....but you ALSO have to take the lead! Guru's are for inspiration and recipe ideas :D take those and RUN! And LISTEN! YOU ARE YOU...pay ATTENTION! hehe

ps...I also understand if you have some disorder/disease then you should read read read...try those opinions...but ya still gotta LISTEN.

Don't worry about what the guru's...just eat raw and listen. YOU KNOW ITS RIGHT....just as I DO! ;)

Peace to you!

dave

[Gaius]

I'm agreeing with this Paul guy about the raw cacao. Matt Monarch is wrong here and it was really passive aggressive for him to give him some cacao halfway through the show.

Hmmm..

[EatRaw]

There IS a way to do raw the wrong way though. Some raw foods are toxic.

I don't doubt that at all. You might even say that ALL raw food can be toxic, depending upon the individual.

Tomatoes might be toxic to YOU...but NOT to me. They may save MY life. :D

Comes down to listening/reading YOUR body!

IMHO,
dave

[juliebove]

I do not believe there is any one diet that will work for everyone. Each person needs to find what works for them. What somebody else does might not work for you, but it isn't necessarily wrong.

[Gaius]

I don't doubt that at all. You might even say that ALL raw food can be toxic, depending upon the individual.

Tomatoes might be toxic to YOU...but NOT to me. They may save MY life. :D

Comes down to listening/reading YOUR body!

IMHO,
dave
That's what I'm saying though. Some people can't handle certain foods and saying that ALL RAW VEGAN FOODS ARE GOOD FOR EVERYBODY is just plain wrong, and my thread about nightshades is just about that very subject.

[EatRaw]

I'm agreeing with this Paul guy about the raw cacao. Matt Monarch is wrong here and it was really passive aggressive for him to give him some cacao halfway through the show.

Hmmm..

Huh?!

Point me to what your talking about....plz

Raw cacao...I've had a couple times....just to be honest, I've not had it enough to hear my body say anything...LOL...good or bad!

I'm pretty much a simple eater! I just love raw vegs and fruits...

I'm not much of a gourmet uncooker...LOL...I'm more of a KISS person.

Anything in OVERmoderation is toxic...IMO

dave

[Gaius]

Dave, the video that the OP was talking about is here. I didn't like how Matt Monarch handled himself in the video, by handing Nison some cacao. It was a really passive aggressive move.

http://mattmonarch.blogspot.com/2009/05/raw-chocolate-matt-monarch-paul-nison.html

[Gaius]

However, I'll give Monarch some credit. He sells raw cacao, and posting a video on his blog that directly blasts raw cacao is as fair and balanced as you can get. Kudos to him on that, despite how I feel about his views on raw cacao.

[EatRaw]

saying that ALL RAW VEGAN FOODS ARE GOOD FOR EVERYBODY is just plain wrong

I think that the OP's (springtime) said just that. That was the reason for her post.

She was confused by some of the Raw Food guru's out there! And it can be confusing!:eek:

Each of has to LISTEN/PAY ATTENTION...WE ALL KNOW ITS BEST! But in NO way am I gonna tell you ....YOU should eat a tomato every day...COZ...I DON"T KONW...LOL. They work for ME...but YOU have to decide if they work for YOU!

Peace and love :cool:

dave

[EatRaw]

Dave, the video that the OP was talking about is here. I didn't like how Matt Monarch handled himself in the video, by handing Nison some cacao. It was a really passive aggressive move.

http://mattmonarch.blogspot.com/2009/05/raw-chocolate-matt-monarch-paul-nison.html


Ok...thanks for the link! I didn't see that in the OP's post!

I'll watch it tomorrow...bedtime for me...LOL

dave

[EatRaw]

I just watched an episode of Raw food world tv show, with paul nison,

After watching that i waltzed around the internet and found so many things i've never read before. How there are raw "gurus" who blame people for "doing it all wrong", on over eating, cacao, fats, fruits, eating at night, eating in the morning, what ratio of what nutritients, supplements or not, oils or not, sprouts or not... Phew...

I had no IDEA which show she watched. Yes there is ALOT of opinions on cacao, fats, fruits, times of the day to eat...etc.

I had NO IDEA that the raw food world was so filled with controverse.

Right now i just feel terrible, ashamed that i thought it was all right and that we were all doing good listening to our bodies.
Wow! You have NO reason to feel that way! NONE! Why should YOU be ASHAMED? IT IS RIGHT, YOU know it!

How can raw fruits and vegetables and nuts be wrong?

ITS NOT! LISTEN! SOME MAY BE! PAY ATTENTION...LOL

Peace

This is just my opinion!

dave

[Springtime]

Grreat to know so many of us feel uncomfortable around this whole phenomena of dogmatic this and preaching that...

Thank mama nature we've got this place, which at least i find quite free from all that!

[EatRaw]

Grreat to know so many of us feel uncomfortable around this whole phenomena of dogmatic this and preaching that...

Thank mama nature

Dave bows to "Mama nature" :D

I LOVE MAMA NATURE....BUT SHE DOES SCARE ME TOO ;);)

dave

[TaupeRawMan]

Springtime -

thank you so much for posting this. I couldn't agree more. I, for one, deal with orthorexic thinking (there is a right way to eat) and was drawn to raw as the next step in the right way to eat journey. The people that have these strong beliefs really feed into that thinking and I think they might deal with orthorexia (and possibly other eating disorders) themselves.

[T-Bird]

I LOVE MAMA NATURE....BUT SHE DOES SCARE ME TOO

But only when you're naughty, right?

[iluvmangos]

I don't listen to the so-called "gurus". The reason I like Alissa's approach is because she doesn't have any rules that must be followed or else you're doing it wrong. I don't like being told what to do. If it's working for my body then it's fine. My body doesn't like raw cacao. It gives me headaches. My body LOVES fat and I enjoy whole avocados and coconut oil nearly everyday and young coconuts whenever I can get my hands on them which, unfortunately, isn't very often.

I think some people find a way of eating that works for them and then decide that since it works for them then it must be the "right" way for everyone which is totally untrue. If someone thinks I'm wrong because I eat more fat than they would then so be it. :)

[Green_Woman]

First thought to spring to my mind after the OP's first post was:

Ah, even Eden had a snake... (referring to the men who try to turn even our peaceful RAW World into a Land of Controversy)

[EZ rider]

To me the beauty of raw can be found in its simplicity, the way the body resonates to the food and the resulting body signals generated which if listened to can provide insight. Everything else is just noise.

[Bananna]

I'm surprised you went so long without discovering it! Haa...

Things are pretty liberal around here :)

[SekhemNefer]

1. There are elitists in every group or community.

2. Food is a multi-billion dollar industry. If you are making, selling or promoting chemical and genetic engineered foods then you are gonna be rich.

If you are selling vegan and vegetarians foods with some health consciousness, then you will be less rich.

If you are selling raw and purely organic foods....you are at the bottom of the pyramid for having a successful money making business.

It's fact. Therefore, if you are into the business of making, selling and promoting raw, you are in "disadvantage" of having the most customers. So is it no wonder that the Raw Food "Experts"/Elitists are trying damn hard to make a half-way decent living out of this? They will do whatever is necessary to make a living aka a buck.

3. Also, I am sure that some of these people have their own personal and spiritual belief system on why they are being Raw. This is a pro-animal rights vegan screaming at a lacto-ovo vegetarian that they are "doing it all wrong!"

[sport]

I'm agreeing with this Paul guy about the raw cacao. Matt Monarch is wrong here and it was really passive aggressive for him to give him some cacao halfway through the show.

Hmmm..

I met Paul last November and had a chat with him and I have not had any chocolate since. I now know that that was right for my body. I agree with him on that but it does not mean that I agree with him on other things.
You must view all of this as you would a potluck.
Each "guru" will bring something to the table and you will look at the table and you can take away what you want and leave the rest.

[Sunboy]

Definitely listen to your body.

The problem is, most people have no idea what that really means, especially if your "body" is really a set of mental programs, cravings, and urges built up over a lifetime.

True listening is tuning into its REAL needs, rather than programmed conditioning protocols that have made the health of the human race the wreck that it has become.

This takes a bit of effort. One way, is to learn Kinesology, or reflex testing when shopping. This lets us know instantly what our body really needs and helps us choose one item over the others, which our body may NOT need at all.

The other is simply just listening...getting quiet and centered when in front of the food item to purchase and see if we get an inner, unprogrammed craving, or a real need.

For some, this becomes very easy, very quickly. For others, they have to deprogram their minds, urges, and cravings before they can hear and feel, what is truly of the body's needs.

This is what I do. Even when choosing the daily smoothie blends for my sons. What do we need today? Like that.

Think about it.

[gabriele]

Definitely listen to your body.

The problem is, most people have no idea what that really means, especially if your "body" is really a set of mental programs, cravings, and urges built up over a lifetime.

True listening is tuning into its REAL needs, rather than programmed conditioning protocols that have made the health of the human race the wreck that it has become.

This takes a bit of effort. One way, is to learn Kinesology, or reflex testing when shopping. This lets us know instantly what our body really needs and helps us choose one item over the others, which our body may NOT need at all.

The other is simply just listening...getting quiet and centered when in front of the food item to purchase and see if we get an inner, unprogrammed craving, or a real need.

For some, this becomes very easy, very quickly. For others, they have to deprogram their minds, urges, and cravings before they can hear and feel, what is truly of the body's needs.

This is what I do. Even when choosing the daily smoothie blends for my sons. What do we need today? Like that.

Think about it.

Very interesting. I'm 55 years old and this is totally new to me, to "listen to my body". It's very hard. My body has always told me it wants milk chocolate. And it's still telling me this, while i'm blending a spinach/banana/berry smoothie. When will that chocolate voice go away?? :(

[sport]

Very interesting. I'm 55 years old and this is totally new to me, to "listen to my body". It's very hard. My body has always told me it wants milk chocolate. And it's still telling me this, while i'm blending a spinach/banana/berry smoothie. When will that chocolate voice go away?? :(

That will change if you give it a chance. My body no longer asks me for those things. It does not even recognise them as food.

[juliew]

if you can view this, its great
http://www.longevitynowprogram.com/news/discipline/

has to do with the rules about raw and all that

[sport]

Follow the person who has the results you want. Paul Nisson is a bald headed pale rawtard. David Wolfe is pretty much a pillar of health, if he says cacao is good then it's good. I've eaten about 5 TB of cacao everyday for about 6 months. I've been raw for a year, cacao never made me feel anything but great. It is a nut so it's slightly acidic but if you balance out your diet with the Sunfood Triangle then you'll have no problems.

I think that is unfair. Pamela Anderson looks better than me but that does not mean that what she is eating is right and I am wrong. It just means that her parents were better looking.

[Gaius]

Follow the person who has the results you want. Paul Nisson is a bald headed pale rawtard. David Wolfe is pretty much a pillar of health, if he says cacao is good then it's good. I've eaten about 5 TB of cacao everyday for about 6 months. I've been raw for a year, cacao never made me feel anything but great. It is a nut so it's slightly acidic but if you balance out your diet with the Sunfood Triangle then you'll have no problems.
I'm guessing you work for Sunfood...

[juliew]

Follow the person who has the results you want. Paul Nisson is a bald headed pale rawtard. David Wolfe is pretty much a pillar of health, if he says cacao is good then it's good. I've eaten about 5 TB of cacao everyday for about 6 months. I've been raw for a year, cacao never made me feel anything but great. It is a nut so it's slightly acidic but if you balance out your diet with the Sunfood Triangle then you'll have no problems.

lol i can't stand paul nisson...i saw him in person and he is so overbearing...he also says agave is terrible for you

[Gaius]

lol i can't stand paul nisson...i saw him in person and he is so overbearing...he also says agave is terrible for you
Agave is obviously better than processed sugar, corn syrup, etc, but it's not meant to be eaten by people. He's actually somewhat correct about that. Have you actually seen an agave plant? We as humans couldnt get to that nectar without getting our hands torn up. Plus, we aren't meant to live where those plants grow either. The only sugars we were meant to eat are in fruit.

Some people seem to find Paul overbearing because he's very religious, but even I as a lifelong atheist can't disagree with him on agave.

[GlimR]

Most of us couldn't get into a young coconut either with our bare hands...

Hmnnnnnnnn...listening to how foods affect you...that's what it always comes down to in the end...not what anyone else says or thinks about it.

[sport]

lol i can't stand paul nisson...i saw him in person and he is so overbearing...he also says agave is terrible for you

I do not think that he is the only one who says that. What makes you think that he is wrong. I think that he is right.

[RawHemp]

Agave is obviously better than processed sugar, corn syrup, etc, but it's not meant to be eaten by people. He's actually somewhat correct about that. Have you actually seen an agave plant? We as humans couldnt get to that nectar without getting our hands torn up. Plus, we aren't meant to live where those plants grow either. The only sugars we were meant to eat are in fruit.


The agave plant can easily be handled with bare hands if your careful, especially if u have some sort of knife tool. Agave plants grow wild in the tropics of south america, how are we not supposed to live there? Humans are naked apes designed to live near the equator. The reason why paul nisson is bashing it is cus most agave nectar in the stores isn't even raw, ateast tht what it seems like to me.

[commoncents]

I I'm not taking it personal, i'm just upset about the fact that these people are arguing over such teeny tiny things, when we could all be supporting one another.

Peace

Such is the way of the world, unfortunately.