If you were bitten by a deer tick...

[Sugar Snap Pea]

Would you go on antibiotics to prevent dreaded Lyme disease? :eek: Found one bitten onto my leg tonight, gross, gross, gross!!!

[Ocean]

Sugar Snap Pea,

I am very anti-medication generally, but yes, I would! I have been sick with Lyme Disease for almost 13 years now. Got bitten in South Carolina with I was 17 years old, I live in Ohio, but was on vacation.

It has messed up my life a lot. It causes a lot of depression, anxiety/panic attacks, fatigue, bladder stuff, joint pain/swelling, memory problems, heart problems, ect.

I WISH a doctor had realized when I had a 'flu type illness' in July, that I had Lyme. Said I must have strep and sent me on my way.

I cannot even express to you enough, how I wish I could turn back time 13 years ago. If I had known about Lyme and what it could do to a person, I would have begged the doctor for the right amt of medication until I was prescribed it.

If you are unconvinced there are a lot of youtube videos about people who have had their lives ruined from Lyme.

I would urge you to go to www.lyme.net and go to the discussion forums. In 'Seeking a Doctor' you can post that you are looking for a doctor nearest to the biggest city near you in your state. Someone will e-mail you a list of Lyme Literate Medical Doctors (LLMD's) in your area.

Most MD's do not realize that 100-200 mg/day of Doxycycline won't prevent Lyme from spreading, at those doses, Doxy is bacteriastatic (meaning it slows the growth of the bacteria), only at higher doses is it bacteriacidal. The dose needs to be higher, but of course the regular doc will say not to worry about it.

I've met WAY too many people on Lyme.net who were treated for 2-3 weeks with too low of dose, who turned into chronic Lyme patients.

Of course there is a chance that the tick didn't have Lyme, but you are playing Russian Roulette.

Since you were just bitten though, if you can get your regular doc to order 300-400 mg of Doxy, then it would be good to start right away (they have found Lyme in the central Nervous system as soon as 24 hours after being bitten).


Also, I would take lots of raw garlic, you could try colloidal silver, ect too.

I know this probably sounds absurd to suggest all this, when all it was was a little tick, but you have no idea how many years I've spent feeling so sick, laying in bed, ect. I don't want anyone to suffer needlessly.

If you need any more help, please ask, I will be happy to share any knowledge I have about this awful disease!

Take care,
Ocean

[spicyfull]

I agree........I don't have it and would not want it, so anything to halt it......I would.

[Dimond]

Most likely I would take strong, known supplements to rid Lyme disease. It's doubtful I will ever go the medical route again unless I had no choice.

[Ocean]

It is entirely up to you Sugar snap pea, but Borrelia Burgdorferi is not a "normal" bacteria. There is much talk and speculation that it was a man made organism on Plum Island in the 1940's (Plum Island was near Lyme, CT and there is testimony from people who worked there that have admitted they were engineering Spirochetes for biowarfare).

It has the ability to actually kill your body's own white blood cell and then to go inside of it and 'hide' from the immune system. The body cannot recognize it because it appears to be a NK cell. It is a very scary bacteria, it can go into 'cyst' form as well, where it just hides from everything, until conditions are right and it will come on out again.

I seriously am very very naturally minded. I birthed my kids at home because I didn't want medical intervention or medication, breastfed for 2.5 years each child (of course at least one of our kids has Lyme now because I had it while pregnant and did not know it. The other 2 are less symptomatic and we have not had them tested yet).

I just wanted you to know that this spirochete is not an ordinary bacteria. The CDC will have you believe that it is hard to catch, easy to cure...if that were only true!

Also, since you are in FL, a lot of MD's will tell you that Lyme doesn't exist in FL and will blow you off, have a lot of members on Lyme.net from FL who have had this happen.

I'm glad that you are raw, this should help at least slow things down for you.

If you don't want to try antibiotics, or if you cannot find an MD to prescribe whre you live, 2 things you could try that I would do would be colloidal silver and Samento (TOA free Cat's Claw), also lots of raw garlic!

I am not a doctor and cannot give medical advice, just trying to help someone escape the misery I've endured!

Take care,
Ocean

[artgirly4]

I would look here http://renegadehealth.com/blog/ and search topics or ask Kevin, as he had it and took care of it. See how he did it. I do not remember. I think he chose antibiotic route. I know a rawker who did not and he appeared sick for quite a long while.

wishing you wellness...just a thought...you dont know for sure you have the disease. Lean into wellness,tell your body you are well, over and over and the body will believe. Mind body connection. Lean into sick and that is what body will do.

[pixie_333]

i say get the meds~!

i got lyme disease the same time daryl hall did! i was petting 2 deers and feeding them. i took a shower when i came home, but next morning felt something on my back and it was a tick! if a tick is in you you have to pick them out. they really stick to you.
that very same day i started feeling very ill.. i had ALL the symptoms of lyme disease MINUS the target rash. i went to emergancy hospital next day and the doctor told me there is absolutely no way i have it because i don't have the target rash... ok let me stop here and pass on some valid information and info i had to educate the doctor on. not everyone gets the rash!!!!!! most do, but not everyone!!!!! i had to demand him for meds! he kept saying no.. he said he's a deer hunter and gets ticks all the time and hasn't gotten it and there's only been a few cases reported in KY with lyme disease that year... so it is impossiable that ME, I can get it!
i got the damn meds from him because i refused to leave without them. i had never been ill like that before and with all those symptoms. also to mention i've only gotten the flu perhaps twice in the past 15-20 some years.

just so you know... lyme disease doesn't always show in blood tests. especialy if you just gotten it. it's the reason i didn't waste my money on the test. even if you've had it for awhile.. you can get 5 blood tests in same day and maybe only one test may show it.

there are also many other tick infections/diseases out there that are simular to lymes.

btw... i will still pet a deer :)
nothing could beat that experience petting them and hand feeding them. they are the sweetest most genuine species on earth i feel. and i took it a loud and clear sign to move out where i was temp staying because it was unhealthy... and i did leave while very ill.

[pixie_333]

btw... if i'm not mistaken you start to feel ill right away. so if this is correct.. i wouldn't get the meds unless you start to feel sick. i wouldn't unless i did and i have experience getting the disease before.

also... ticks sometimes fall off etc. you could be contracted with the disease but not know it because you didn't find the tick. i feel anytime after hiking etc to always check your hair and body!!!!! i have gotten a few ticks on my head after hiking and didn't feel it until i put my fingers through my hair resting my head on hand. fortunetly those ticks didn't get me ill.

[pixie_333]

hey ocean

i'm sorry our experiences differ. on the other hand... i wonder though.. i don't think he gave me a high dose ( i don't remember now the dose) and also daryl hall was on them a week longer than i was perscribed. i took the meds for like 2 weeks and even after i finished the perscription i still felt very ill but not as much. about a week after that i finaly felt better.
i went to a free clinic and they said i should be fine despite i still feel sick. it's been about 4 1/2 years since then... and i guess i'm ok. just talking about it i can feel something right where the tick bit me back then as although it's there still.
so with your knowledge... what do you think?

oddly my brother thought it was impossiable i had lymes when i told him what happened. he got blood tests for an unknown condition and it showed he had been contracted with lymes but was in no danger and wouldn't be ill from the amount. they still haven't found out what was wrong with him but he has no lymes symptoms.

[Ocean]

Hey Pixie,

Thanks for sharing your story!
It was about a week before I started feeling sick and I never got meds initially. I also did not have the rash.

My mom got a bullseye rash and I told her to see her doc right away. She did and the doc gave her abx and she too is fine.

It makes a huge difference if you are treated right away, esp within the first month. It's really hard to get them out of your brain once they penetrate, unless you take IV drugs as oral drugs generally don't penetrate the Blood brain barrier.

I agree that ANY dose of Doxycycline will help. The higher the better.

I think the immune system has a better chance to fight the Lyme initally if you get meds right away, also being raw should help.

I'm sorry that you are still not feeling well. I am also sorry to say that I have heard probably a hundred stories from people who say they were bitten, got a couple weeks of antibiotics, felt better and then later went on to have strange symptoms. MD's do not know what a stealth bacteria Lyme is. I had no idea. I'm an RN and in nursing school, we barely talked about Lyme.

Lyme is often misdiagnosed as Multiple Sclerosis (met several people who were told they had MS, continued to get worse, then got a Lyme test and found out they actually had Lyme!), ALS, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/Fibro, Lupus, Parkinson's and others.

Also, for your brother, often people who are sicker will show up with fewer antibodies (the things that fight bacteria), so they may appear to be less sick from bloodwork.

Many LLMD's believe Lyme is epidemic in this country. A very alternative MD in Washington state by the name of Dr. Klinghardt treats Lyme Disease among other things (he does a lot of detoxification and things). He said that he has not had a SINGLE person come in with MS or ALS who did not test positive for Lyme disease!

However, tests like the Elisa test miss over 40% of patients with proven Lyme disease. That is the test I had in 1997 that said I didn't have Lyme. I finally got a Western BLot done from Igenex labs that was positive.

Is there anyway your brother would be willing to look at www.Lyme.net and you too??? There are TONS of alternative minded people there believe me. I've posted about the raw diet and a couple people have shown interest, one started feeling better on it.

For your brother, there are a million different symptoms that Lyme can cause. My older brother (well, OK, he's only 32 :D ) started getting numbness, tingling, and eye symptoms last fall. He went to the ER once, to his regular doc and after his tests came back fine, they told him he had anxiety.

He went to the Cleveland clinic and when his MRI's showed non-typical MS leisons, they said he must have a virus that will eventually just go away. I tried to tell him the Elisa test is junk and the test he needed to get. For about 3 months, he trusted Cleveland Clinic and did nothing (besides some basic detox stuff). He kept getting worse, was getting flashes of light in his eyes, weak legs, ect.

Got tested and had some very weak antibodies show up. It's kind of like when a doc says you test weak for it, but you can't have it, being told that you are just a little bit pregnant! You either ARE or you AREN'T!

Here is a list of just some of the symptoms Lyme can cause. I actually contacted our local paper and asked for them to do a story on me with Lyme to bring awareness to Ohioans. If you need any more help, just send me an e-mail and I can send you my phone # if you need to talk. It's terrible how many people have it and just don't know it.

Also I have had a few good years from Lyme, so you can have periods of feeling better and then feeling worse again. I promise you though if you go to a regular doctor, you won't be taken seriously.

Anyhow, take care!

Ocean

[gooddaymoon]

Lyme disease is serious and something that is very hard to live with if you don't treat it immediately. I do not use antibiotics, I do not take asprin, I live a clean lifestyle, but if I were bitten by a dear tick, I would almost certainly choose an antibiotic treatment.

good luck to you.

[Ocean]

Oops! I forgot to put the symptom link in that I mentioned (I get bad brain fog and forget things, sorry!).

http://www.canlyme.com/patsymptoms.html


Take care,
Ocean

[pixie_333]

thanks for the reply and all the info ocean!

i think there was a misunderstanding... i've felt fine since a week after i stopped taking the meds and no symptoms for over 4 years. however i seem to have some poor circulation in my legs and sometimes ditzy, can't think totaly straight and tired often.. but this can be explained for some other factors.
i would however like to get checked for lyme just to make sure. i live in cincinnati. how much does a test usualy go for with the western one you recommend? i have no insurance.

i just phoned my brother and asked him how he's doing and he said sometimes good other times not and still doesn't know what's up with his health. *i think it's been 9 years maybe longer since he's been getting tested for what is wrong! and still to no discovery!*
i told him what you shared and he said he is not interested in reading what you had to say nor getting checked for it again. he doesn't believe he has lymes and politely said he wants the issue dropped. he said the doctor told him they found a para virus in his blood and probably got it when he was a kid and that this is very common and no need to worry. what do you think?

[Ocean]

Pixie,

Ok, sorry I must have misread. I forget things sometimes or don't read them correctly. I get very spacy sometimes (our 8 year old does too who has Lyme).

One thing I have learned is that ticks just don't carry only Lyme Disease. They carry things like Babesia, Bartonella, Ehrlichia, and mycoplasmas that can make you sick. You have to use different treatment protocols to kill those.

They also cause other symptoms. like does your brother or you ever get unexplained night sweats, or low grade fever when you don't have a sore throat or other obvious signs of acute illness? Those are symptoms of Babesia.

It was only by chance that I even found out that I had Lyme. I was tested in Medina, Ohio by a wonderful alternative MD (he used to be an ER doc and turned completely alternative, he's GREAT!!). He uses a biomeridan to test what frequencies are in your body, if there is a bacteria, virus, ect, the computer will pick it up.

He told me that he found Lyme and Babesia. I was very skepical and did nothing for a year about it, it wasn't a blood test, so I didn't really trust it.

I wish I had. I went to one of the best LLMD's in the US in CA and he ordered the Western Blot test, and the IgM was positive.

I went a few years at a time feeling OK as well. I had a ton of stress in Oct 2007 that just wiped out my immune system and I started getting all these symptoms back. I used to tell myself I was just tired because I have 3 kids, I can't gain weight because I was breastfeeding ect (some people with Lyme gain and can't lose, it messes up the endocrine system).

The western blot test is $200.
One thing you could do it to try a natural antibiotic like colloidal silver or Samento and see if you get a herxheimer reaction (people with Lyme often feel worse either the first few weeks of antibiotics, or feel really good, then feel really bad for awhile, it's related to die off of the spirochete).

I also had no insurance for awhile, that's how I turned to raw foods! Plus I stopped trusted doctors after one told me when I was 19 years old that I would just be sick with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome for the rest of my life (after I gave myself the shots he recommended and they didn't work).

That's OK if your brother doesn't want to look into it. He may with time. That's what happened to my brother, he kept saying that because the Cleveland Clinic said he didn't have Lyme, then he couldn't. Yet, they offered him no help, just said you probably have some virus that will eventually go away.

Only when his eyesight started affecting his job and I asked my chiropractor to muscle test him with the antibiotics I brought (he tested VERY high for the antibiotics), he finally asked me how long it takes to get results for the test once he gets it done!

He's been on antibiotics for 4 weeks and has had 3 really good days the past several. Of course with Lyme you always have some days that are better, but his good days were really really good. I'm soooo glad he agreed to get tested.

I just think if he is having symptoms that affect his quality of life, then it's not 'nothing to worry about'.

I remember in nursing school when I had clinicals, so many of the nurses and doctors just treated the patients like their pain didn't really matter. That they were over-reacting, ect. It sounds like your brother's doc may be doing that. Does the doc believe he is a hypochondriac?

Is there any way you can tell what type of symptoms he is having? Fatigue is usually a biggie for Lyme, yet my brother didn't get tired until he got on the antibiotics.

I mean I can't say for sure that I think your brother has Lyme, but with the inability to get a diagnosis and ruling so many things out...

This is a new documentary that is coming to select theatres in June. This is the trailor if you would like to watch it, it's really good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxWgS0XLVqw

Some people get twitching, jerking, I never did until a month ago, so I'd been sick for almost 13 years before that happened. Lyme can be fatal, it usually takes years for it to kill though, often people with Lyme look healthy on the outside. It's the mental stuff that I hate...anxiety, brain fog, memory forgetfulness.

Let me know if I answered your questions!!!

Ocean

[pixie_333]

he gets stiffness, headaches and body aches for the most part. ill feeling too. i can't remember everything. i don't get fevers nor sweats and i don't think he does either.

you forgot to answer about para virus! i'm curious to know more about that if this could be affecting him.
he's pretty stubborn on it that lymes is nothing to do with his conditions.. and he may very well be right. i'm just not convinced yet.

[pixie_333]

ps
he's seen many different doctors.. all are clueless what's wrong. only one doc found that para virus yet feels it isn't the problem.

[Ocean]

How old is your brother? If he got this in childhood, and if he's over 30, I would say this para virus has nothing to do with his symptoms. For him to all of the sudden feel sick for no reason, something had to have happened to create it. In other words, this 'virus' should have caused symptoms in childhood.

I still can't believe the doc said that his Lyme test was positive but not 'enough', it either is or it isn't.

Again, he may revisit the Lyme possibility when he's sick and tired of being sick and tired. I know I was. It's how I came to raw foods :)

It doesn't sound like he wants to think about the possibility, so he probably won't.

I always thought Lyme caused joint problems, and that was it. Not sleep paralysis (had this one, probably my scariest symptom, fatigue, muscle pain, anxiety, panic attacks, depression, headaches, sensitivity to sunlight (with your eyes), bladder issues, vision issues, the list goes on.

I am determined to go back to college if I get well to become an LLMD, I promised myself when I was 18 that if I ever got well again, I would become a doctor and help others who had this terrible 'thing' (that had no name at the time).

Can you give me a link about the para virus that your brother's doc thinks he may have? I'm not familiar with what exactly the doc thinks it is.

My brother doesn't get fevers either, so he probably doesn't have Babesia. It's better if you don't have a co-infection.

I also saw a lot of different doc's, some patients with Lyme had seen up to 50 doctors trying to figure out what is wrong.

Well, I need to go somewhere with my husband, talk to you later

Ocean

[pixie_333]

i can't find any info with it related to lyme. people say the para virus is like the flu.. best i found.
i'm not going to call my bro back on it because he doesn't find it an issue and i want to respect him. and perhaps he is ok. he's in his mid 40's.

i think it's great you want to doctor for it! i think you should do it!

[Ocean]

Thanks :)

Ocean

[Sugar Snap Pea]

Antibiotics it is! I'm on a 10 day course of Doxycycline. Thanks, Y'all! It didn't take much to convince this ER nurse to take the meds! I went to work today, told one of the Docs my sad tale, and he asked if I wanted to wait a week to see if I get the rash? Uh, no! I really am not a pill taker, but in this case... better safe than sorry!

[Ocean]

Good for your Sugar snap pea! You will have caught this very very early, which is so important, if indeed the tick even had borrelia burgorfori in it.

I'm sure catching it early will make a huge difference for you.

Take care,
Ocean