Worsened health or death with raw food?

[LISAinTN]

Hello,

I am new here and came here after seeing Alissa on the Today Show this morning. Her website is so incredibly inspiring. I am 40 years old and have been searching for a way to lose weight and improve my health. My life is mostly non-existant because of Fibromyalgia and extreme fatigue. I rarely go anywhere or do anything because I always feel so bad. I cannot blame everything wholely on this though, because I am approximately 80 pounds overweight and my eating habits are horrible and I feel like I am poisoning myself. Anyway, I have been searching the internet and reading all morning about raw food and came across several articles about death and worsened health by eating this way. Frankly it scared me and made me think twice about embarking on this way of eating. I will post a link to one of the articles and would very much appreciate some of your opinions on this. Thank you.

Blessings,
~Lisa~

http://www.fredericpatenaude.com/interview-nazariah.html

[tracyinfo]

Welcome Lisa, you came to the right place. All kinds of questions arise here and all kinds of answers!

Most people would suggest you buy Alissa's living foods book. It has been a great help for people starting off on the living food/raw lifestyle.

Blessings.

[Rawkinlocs]

Hi and welcome Lisa,

You will find this type of information but you will also find that there is far more success eating this way than there is unsuccessfullness. You just have to make sure you eat a wide variety of foods.

Here is a past discussion which has been locked, but is fine for read-only purposes: http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3183&highlight=nazariah

[LISAinTN]

Hi and welcome Lisa,

You will find this type of information but you will also find that there is far more success eating this way than there is unsuccessfullness. You just have to make sure you eat a wide variety of foods.

Here is a past discussion which has been locked, but is fine for read-only purposes: http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3289

According to the link you posted, I guess I wasn't supposed to ask that question? Sorry, I didn't mean to cause any trouble and I sure didn't come here to bash this WOE. I am not for or against this way of eating at this point, I guess I was more hoping people would give me reasons why I won't have to worry about the things discussed in the article I posted. I would really like to try this WOE, but naturally, after reading some of the above mentioned articles, I had some concerns.

Blessings,
~Lisa~

[Rawkinlocs]

Sorry, I had the other link copied on my clipboard from before and pasted the wrong one to you. The link has been corrected so you can check it out! :o

You are fine to express your concerns because this is new and different and there are some things out that that'll scare the beejeebees out of you. But many here will testify to a totally different kind of experience than that of what you read in that interview! ;)

[flutterfly]

It is more when I am eating raw that I am healthy. The few times I have gone off all raw since 1997 is when I got sick. I had a bad case of nerves about 7 months ago and thought I knew more than what was taught to me and had also seen. I went off the raw and everything got worse. It was not until I decided that RAW was the only way to go that I got 99% better.
It can't hurt anything to do the raw for the 30 day challenge and see for yourself. Let your body talk for it's self.
I am almost 59 years old and for me raw has helped with every part of my body.
Welcome here! ;)

[tracyinfo]

Frederic Patenuade states that the guy's deficiency was in b-12. There is nothing scary about b-12. It is just something that some people need to supplement. I believe what rawkinlocs referenced was information about b-12?

Blessings.

[Sweet lips]

Well, I am glad you came here after seeing her on the today show, and yes, there are some very positive things happening when one consumes a raw diet, be it 100% or be adding raw fruit and veggies to the diet, is a 100% improvement over what was being done in the past.

I know a bit about fibromalgia, as a massage therpist and I can empathize with what you are saying about your quality of life - I also know about being overweight. Raw eating can assist with that, and there are reported data for improvement is fibromalgia symptoms as well - may be some on the board - I didn't check.

Yes, as Tracy mentioned, Alissa's book is wonderful, and provides an array of recipes that can satisfy your palate. If you are anyhting like me, you have looked for a miracle weightloss or pain free cure. Although you are made up of mind, body and spirit - I found that I can feed my soul better and have a better spirit, when I feel physically well, and thus eating raw has helped me in that area.

Stay around, read the post, ask questions and try this way of life - you have you to gain!

[sport]

Lisa. I have read the article that you posted and if you examine it the only negitive that he could come up with was B12 and most vegans take b12 supplements. B12 is manufactured by bacteria and if you wash your food properly before eating it then you wash it away. You store enough of it in your body to keep you going 3 to 5 years and if you are still vegan after that time then you should supplement. I have been supplementing for about a year now (after 3 years vegan) and intend to be vegan for life. (and intend to be healthy for life)
This problem is from being vegan and not from being raw so you should distinguish.
He had no other negitive other than "maybe it is not as good for us as we think". Well I say fine. If being raw vegan does nothing more than prevents me eating at McDonnalds and such places then it is doing me a great service and if it does nothing worse than dropping my b12 levels (which I can easily and cheeply suppliment) then I think that I am getting a good deal.
I am glad that you have done some research as no one should do things blindly, but you should give it a chance and you may be plesently surprised. If you are not then you can revert to your normal eating pattern.
Good luck to you

[Autumn]

Lisa,
First, welcome! :D In addition to the many helpful replies you are bound to get on this thread, on the main page of the forum, if you go to "Need to know more about raw?", there are several great threads and lots of helpful info there about protein, B-12 and detoxing.

You can also read the journals on this site. There are so many inspiring stories of people who are actually doing raw and benefitting enormously from it! The proof is in the (raw) pudding! :D

[sachis2112]

Welcome! Please take a look at the link below. It's Helen's story. She pops in here from time to time to say hi and give encouragement but I believe her story may help you.

http://www.shazzie.com/raw/transformation/helen.shtml

[sweetgoddess]

Lisa, a warm welcome to the forum. Glad you can join us.
It is certainly ok to ask questions here and we sincerely hope we can help and support you.

You will find contradicting information in any subject, of any nature you research. It is the way of things.
If you read through the stories and journals here and then also at other raw sites, read through Alissa's book you will find so many examples of the incredible healing benefits of raw food.

I can tell you personally that eating raw, living, enzyme rich food has changed the way I feel, the way I think and the way I live. It can do that for you also.
Do not let fear or one persons opinion stand in the way of becoming your best you!!!

Let us know what you decide to do, as we would love to support you.

Many Blessings~

[LISAinTN]

Sorry, I had the other link copied on my clipboard from before and pasted the wrong one to you. The link has been corrected so you can check it out! :o

You are fine to express your concerns because this is new and different and there are some things out that that'll scare the beejeebees out of you. But many here will testify to a totally different kind of experience than that of what you read in that interview! ;)

Sorry Rawkinlocs! I clicked on that first link you gave me and then saw your revised post. I was hoping I wasn't being a troublemaker right off the bat!! :o

Blessings,
~Lisa~

[LISAinTN]

Wow! I just wanted to say "thank you" SO much to everyone for all the help and opinions. I am really anxious to try this way of life and like someone suggested, why not try the 30 day challenge?? The only thing I have to lose is bad health and I would LOVE to lose that! :D I will look into getting Alissa's book asap. Thank you again to everyone. Through the years I've been on alot of health message boards and never have I found one this helpful or friendly! :)

Blessings,
~Lisa~

[VeggieMel]

I can really relate to you, Lisa. We're about the same age, I also have fibromyalgia and when I first started on the raw diet, I was about 60 pounds overweight. In the 2 years I've been raw, I've lost ALL my excess weight. I'm now at my ideal weight. I still have some symptoms of fibromyalgia, but my health has improved greatly, and the most significant difference has been in my energy level. I used to sleep a lot of the day, and I'd sleep 10-12 hours a night. Now I sleep about 8-9 hours a night, and I almost never sleep during the day.
Not to mention that I look about 15 years younger than when I went raw.
I think you're making a great move for yourself. It may just change your life. Keep posting!

[RawGirl11]

Hi,

I'm new to this forum. I just read that article. I don't know why the FL child died. (Could have been very sick from a disorder that they were trying to cure, etc.) but as for there being no "old" raw foodists, Dr. Ann Wigmore was 84 when she died in a fire. Who knows how old she would have been without that horrific end to her life. She would be 95 today.
I've only been 100% raw for 8 weeks now (was before several times too) but I know that my vegan raw diet is healthier than eating huge quantities of sugar, cooked fats, meat, cheese, etc. that was making me ill. There is no comparison. I could hardly walk around 8 weeks ago due to my granuloma/autoimmune disorder. I am 300% improved already. I'm going to start Dr. Jubb's program in a few weeks. Once I regain my health, then I'll start to worry about supplements etc. If it turns out I need some raw dairy, that wouldn't be the worse thing in the world, but I feel wonderful doing what I'm doing now. :)

[Carlene]

Hi, boy do I understand where you are coming from. My first attempt at raw was hard. The first four days it was actually euphoric, but then it got harder and I rationalized a million reasons why it had to be unhealthy. Years of dieting, reading books on nutrition, doing vegetarian, vegan, macrobiotics, Atkins I thought I was pretty knowledgable and there was no way eating raw could be healthy. All these guru's were just extremists.

Well, I didn't make it two weeks before I had to try it again. That was two months ago. An amazing two months. Is everyday easy, no, but is it worth it, you bet. I've read those articles too. They didn't scare me. I haven't done any one eating style long enough to worry about how I will be affected 10 years from now, so why worry about something so far away with so many years in between for the science to catch up with it.

Being fat, moving past my borderline diabetes, straining my heart, these are the things I'm worried about today. These are the things raw is healing today. Don't listen to the nay sayers, all they do is give you an excuse not to give this your best effort and see for yourself what heathy is all about.

[Pailani]

Hi,
I don't know why the FL child died. (Could have been very sick from a disorder that they were trying to cure, etc.)

Yes, this story has been updated and the child had a rare disorder. But mainstream doctors, when they found out the family was raw, were quick to put the blame on the diet before looking any further.

[stayhomemom]

When I first started researching raw food diet, I also had concerns regarding B-12 since almost every raw food site and book that I read recommended taking supplements. It didn’t make much sense to me. If humans are designed to eat raw vegan, then how come we don’t get all the nutrients we need from this diet? And if I have to get B-12 by eating cow, where did that cow got it from? I was totally confused by this issue till I found a post on this forum that answered someof my questions. Hope it will help: http://rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3260

[raeannasun]

Lisa - if you are near Nashville let Helen and I know - we have a great raw group that meets twice a month.

About your concerns - I would suggest doing a 30 day challenge. Buy a book about raw foods and educate yourself in the research!!! If you still feel convicted that 100% raw is not right for you, consider the Hallelujah Diet www.hacres.com. I firmly believe that by making a change in your diet and eliminating meat, dairy, glutens, sugar, caffine and other toxic substances you will find that your health will really improve! I lost 40 pounds after I started the Hallelujah Diet and then switching to raw. On the Hallelujah Diet website you can also read testimonies of people that have/had fibromayalgia.

I believe that 100% raw is the best way to go after I have researched and read many books and websites. There will always be naysayers - that's why you need to read as much as you can and vary your sources!!! Alissa's book is very motivational but if you're more scientific minded look into books by the Boutenko family and Tonya Zavasta.

If you want to contact me my e-mail is raeannag@wcs.edu

[maraw]

I understand your concern as I am sure we have all shared moments of nutritional doubt. However, you begin to understand that eating raw isn't about food, or B-12, but rather about a lifestyle. It creates a completely new and refreshing concept of food - so simple and basic, it must be good. There are certainly detox moments, and they're not fun. But the alternative of fries, diet sodas and gravy-soaked chicken-fried steak is certainly NOT a way to better health.

For what it's worth, my two cents are:
-Definitely buy Alissa's book - best money you can spend on your health
-Consider purchasing The China Study - a very comprehensive study on nutrition
-Get active on this site, and ask lots of questions
-Give yourself time to take it all in. Eat simply and don't stress.

Best wishes,
Anna

[pizda]

"...However, you begin to understand that eating raw isn't about food, or B-12, but rather about a lifestyle. It creates a completely new and refreshing concept of food - so simple and basic, it must be good..."

Well said Anna,
I do not use termin "raw diet" but rather raw life style. once you start feeleng effect of the new food regiment, you (that what happened with me) start being more aware about your health and processes in your body. You will start exercise, breathing, and even think different. Your hygienic (sp) routine will change. I am not even mentioning your cloth ,-))))).
Good luck and do not be afraid of unknown feelings.
Food or rather SAD gluttony - is a very strong addiction. It is harder to overcome than smoking or cocaine, because everybody around you is doing.
Just like all of us you will become a social outcast on parties and corporate lunches and breakfasts (by the way I need to be attending one in 5 minutes - yaaak). However, what a body you will have....,-))))
Lisa, just follow Anna's and other ladies advise and be strong for yourself.
Michael

[LISAinTN]

Lisa - if you are near Nashville let Helen and I know - we have a great raw group that meets twice a month.

Thank you Raeannasun. I wish I were closer, but I'm about 3 hours away. Thanks for the invite, though.

[sweetgoddess]

you will become a social outcast on parties and corporate lunches and breakfasts

This is not necessarily true. That is only determined by your perspective of your experience. You can also look at it as you will become an example, or an inspiration.

Blessings~

[Revvell]

This is soooo untrue. If one feels they will become an outcast, then one will be outcast. I created that for myself at one time as a vegetarian. I don't have that experience as a raw foodist (mumbles at the label) as what I eat is not who I am. I CHOOSE not to go where people drink and smoke. I CHOOSE to go where people eat healthier. I create my own social circle by who "I" choose to hang with and where "I" choose to go.

As far as meetings and such, I bring my own food. I can let it become a wonder-filled topic of conversation "my, that looks good. What is it?" or, I can be defensive and un-sharing. As in any unique lifestyle, it's all in how one wishes to perceive and present it.

As a quick for example. Some people perceived Katie on the Today show as negative. I didn't see that at all. *shrugs*

:cool:


Just like all of us you will become a social outcast on parties and corporate lunches and breakfasts
Michael

[pizda]

This is soooo untrue. If one feels they will become an outcast, then one will be outcast. I created that for myself at one time as a vegetarian. I don't have that experience as a raw foodist (mumbles at the label) as what I eat is not who I am. I CHOOSE not to go where people drink and smoke. I CHOOSE to go where people eat healthier. I create my own social circle by who "I" choose to hang with and where "I" choose to go.

As far as meetings and such, I bring my own food. I can let it become a wonder-filled topic of conversation "my, that looks good. What is it?" or, I can be defensive and un-sharing. As in any unique lifestyle, it's all in how one wishes to perceive and present it.

As a quick for example. Some people perceived Katie on the Today show as negative. I didn't see that at all. *shrugs*

:cool:

I should of put word "outcast" in quote mark ,-)). As we speak every meeting participants are eating bar-b-q lunch and I am eating my soaked buckwheat with cortido. I am tired to do what everybody does. It is not "easy" in corporate enviroment.

[LISAinTN]

Pizda, I understand what you were trying to convey. Not so much an outcast maybe, but possibly it may make things difficult at times. At this point in my life with such horrible health, I am willing to be hated LOL by all if it means I have a healthier, smaller body. I don't really care what other people think.

[flutterfly]

Think of it as being a "Pioneer" "Health Leader" "Teacher" not as an outcast.

[twinyoga]

You have to have confidence in eating raw and do it for the right reasons. If you do, then you don't notice that you are eating different or that you feel like an "outcast".

I have just hit that place now. I am comfortable. I feel good. Throughout the year and at other attempts at eating raw I talked myself out of it because I felt "different". This time I just know this is what I want and why I'm doing it.

[Rawkinlocs]

You have to have confidence in eating raw and do it for the right reasons. If you do, then you don't notice that you are eating different or that you feel like an "outcast".

I have just hit that place now. I am comfortable. I feel good. Throughout the year and at other attempts at eating raw I talked myself out of it because I felt "different". This time I just know this is what I want and why I'm doing it.

You GO girrrlll!!! :D

[Sharon in Colorado]

Surely this has been mentioned before, but the problem with most of these articles is that they scare the bejeepers out of folks who are only raw-curious, so that they never begin. You see, the folks who are doing raw successfully couldn't possibly get scared by those articles, since they are feeling so great.

Another thing is, people don't really need to take B-12 or eat eggs unless there really is a problem. B-12 deficient symptoms are one way to find out - another is a blood test. If I had to live like that, maybe I'd wear a parachute around the house for fear of falling down the stairs. Sure, a bottle of B-12 is cheaper, but what if it's not even necessary? Why put something in your body that you may already have enough of?

BTW - I've always been on a 'weird' kind of diet from everyone else, so I don't feel like an outcast. However, my bigger challenge is the temptation.

[Sadii]

Lisa, I have serious problems with Fibro and CFS myself. Raw has really helped a lot!! I also had to try guai, don't know if it will be successful yet or not. Possibly just raw would have eventually done it, but I think not. I went to 4 months raw and felt better, but the unrelenting fatigue and pain were not gone, or even close. That said, for Fibro/CFS, I'm convinced that eating raw is the best place to start.

Do check out the guai support website, though, at http://www.psha-inc.com/guai-support/.

There is some evidence that us hard-core Fibro/CFS patients have an enzyme deficiency that keeps us from excreting phosphates from our body as we should. Since there are phosphates in everything and it is part of a normal metabolic process, when your kidneys don't excrete phosphates, your cells cannot perform the normal ATP process, which gives you energy, and keeps everything cleaned out. You then end up with acidic metabolic wastes being deposited all over your body, affecting your brain, muscles, and really, all of you. Raw will reduce the acid and make you feel better, and make you generally healthier. The guai helps your body to excrete the phosphates built up, and also the dietary phosphate you take in daily.

Raw isn't scary to me - I felt better. With fibro you may need extra b12, especially at first, and probably a liquid multiple mineral supplement, but if you eat a varied raw diet, following these wise peoples recommendations, this should work fine for you. If i can help, please ask.

All the best to you, Kathy

[RawTruth]

This is not necessarily true. That is only determined by your perspective of your experience. I think Sweetgoddess is absolutely correct.

Since August 1st, when I became involved in a new project, I have been meeting 3 - 4 times a week with 4 other stakeholders. We frequently have meals together. I bring fruit which I eat rather than pastries and coffee during the morning. I always bring enough to offer fruit to everyone. Yesterday, we met at 8 a.m. at a cafe. I had fresh-squeezed orange juice and a fruit plate. At lunches out, I order off the menu, with my own additions, and none of these professionals has said a word. One day we ate at a Charo Chicken. I ordered the salad plain (which was just romaine on a plate), added the chopped tomato, sliced mushrooms, avocado and dressing that I'd brought in a little cooler in my car. No one made a comment, although one colleague did start talking about how he's never had a single salad in his entire life (he's around 30). I didn't say a word.Yesterday, we ate at El Torito (a local chain high-end Mexican restaurant). I simply ordered the Caesar salad with no dressing and a side of guacamole. I added one to the other , sprinkled on a bit of the pico de gallo salsa and it was a satisfying lunch. The others ate their enchiladas, chicken tostadas, etc., and we focused on our discussion, not on each others' food.

I think, depending on the people involved, how you're received depends a lot on your own attitutde. If you're matter-of-fact and confident and not proselytizing nor drawing attention to yourself, few people will notice or care.

[sweetgoddess]

Looking up "proselytizing" now.
You would be so fun to play scrabble with RawTruth!

You raise a very good point. Often the judgement we feel from others is nothing more than a reflection of our own state.
And you are so sweet to bring enough fruit to share. Thank you for the examples of eating out-that gave me some great ideas.

Blessings~

[RawTruth]

Looking up "proselytizing" now.
You would be so fun to play scrabble with RawTruth!I'm looking for a partner!! :D


You raise a very good point. Often the judgement we feel from others is nothing more than a reflection of our own state.In this and every other area of our lives, too, no? (This was a very important lesson for me to have learned ... and for which I'm continually grateful.)

[sweetgoddess]

proselytizing.
pros·e·ly·tize ( P ) Pronunciation Key (prs-l-tz)
v. pros·e·ly·tized, pros·e·ly·tiz·ing, pros·e·ly·tiz·es
v. intr.
To induce someone to convert to one's own religious faith.
To induce someone to join one's own political party or to espouse one's doctrine.
v. tr.
To convert (a person) from one belief, doctrine, cause, or faith to another.

Yeah, do I get an A ?? I learned a new word today. :p


In this and every other area of our lives, too, no? (This was a very important lesson for me to have learned ... and for which I'm continually grateful.)

yes, most definitely! This was a huge lesson in my life also - one that I seem to be continually offered refresher courses for! ;)