Why are soy products bad?

[DejaVu]

Hi, I've been having trouble finding an answer to this question. Can anyone direct me to some informative sites or tell me why soy products are not good?

[rawstrength]

they are cooked, genetically modified, and extremely estrogenic

[T-Bird]

Rawstrength,

Do you know anything about the estrogenic effects compared to other legumes?

Like mung beans, which I eat the sprouts. Do sprouts change it? Could one eat soy sprouts without negatives? don't know how they taste tho!

What about peanuts? My kids still eat peanut butter so I'm concerned on that.....

How are soy different from other legume? Or is it all legume?

[JennaBoBenna]

http://search.mercola.com/Results.aspx?q=soy&k=soy

[pixie_333]

here's a worth while video to look at on gm soy cropping etc. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SBH88lvlos

here's a lot of info regarding the warnings etc about soy. has many links leading to other info.
http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/

one thing i've noticed about soy... my intuition always screamed not to eat it and when i did eat tofu and drank soy milk (soy milk being the worse) i became very dehydrated. maybe i'm allergic to it... but i read a few years ago that soy dehydrates you and after you consume soy one is recommended to drink 8 full glasses of water!!! is this good???? and doctors recommend freaking soy milk for a replacement for cows milk to babies!!!!!!!!?????
a woman i worked with told me her infant granddaughter is drinking this... i told her to phone her daughter now. harms hormones and everything. slap new age to it and people go nuts!!!!!! shame on people.

[rawstrength]

Here's a good article on soy's effects. http://www.mothering.com/articles/growing_child/food/soy_story.html

All legumes are mildly estrogenic, but soy is about 1,000X stronger because of all the lignins, isoflavones and phyto-estrogens it contains.

[sweetlime]

is tempeh on the soy "bad list?" i thought it was a better choice because of it being fermented.

[kaybee]

T bird--i think soy sprouts arent supposed to be eaten raw. i dont know if they are exactly "toxic" but i think youre not supposed to eat them raw

re: peanut butter: the problem with peanuts is aflatoxins... you could google that. I THINK its killed by cooking though, so actually the cooked PB would be ok in that respect...except that all the cooked oils in it probably arent good... you CAN get jungle peanuts, which are aflatoxin free and raw, but they dont taste spectacular (like ANY raw peanuts), and they will cost you your whole paycheck to get a few bags of them (sunfood, etc), lol

That said, its also my understanding ( though i COULD be wrong), that raw fresh sweetcorn has the same aflatoxins in it, even if its organic and fresh off the stalk, but most people dont seem to be concerned about this, .. so i dunno.

[*RayRay*]

Soy in it's natural unprocessed form is inedible for humans. So why do we think that if it is massively processed, cooked, with additives, etc.... that it is something we should eat? Good marketing from the soy industry.
In the back of the book 'electrical nutrition' by denie heistand, there is a whole section (The Soy Report) that explains all the processing soy has to go through before consumption, and the effects it has on the body when consumed.
Simply....Soy is not a food!

I would replace the peanut butter with almond butter! just as yummy but is good for your body!

[Ilse W.]

Just to clear up some misconceptions..."organically grown" soy is NON-GMO by law. Soy as such is not bad, but people who have estrogen dependent breast cancer, for example, should not use soy products. Also, as a raw foodist, you don't want soy products because most of them have been cooked. The only ones acceptable are the fermented soy products, which have all enzymes necessary for digestion.

[T-Bird]

Thanks Kaybee! Appreciate the info!

[Irish_Vegan_Girl]

I don't know why they are actually bad, but I do know that the reason's they are believed to be bad are because they apparently have high levels of estrogen in them (not good for the male consumers apparently) and that they are reportedly linked to certain cancers. I've read about why they are good for you and about why they are not - but IMO, they seem to suit me, I don't eat 100% raw and when I have soy products I feel good still - so, for the mean time, I eat them in moderation and they help in my transition to raw. I enjoy them and it's not an abusive relationship:)

[TaupeRawMan]

Here's a good article on soy's effects. http://www.mothering.com/articles/growing_child/food/soy_story.html

All legumes are mildly estrogenic, but soy is about 1,000X stronger because of all the lignins, isoflavones and phyto-estrogens it contains.

My understading is that flax seeds are also pretty estrogenic...I stay away from both flax and soy for this reason.

[Bananna]

Soy Is a plant...I wonder what would happen if you just eat soy leaves in a salad.

My Dad grows soy because it's super easy. I was told by someone who was referring to the Asians high consumption of soy, that their soy is ok because it's not all processed and nastified, but thinking that eating Our soy is good for you like it is for the Asians, is SO misleading.

I think a lot of foods are estrogenic and they should be limited for that IMO.

[Inca_faerie]

Sigh...Soy is not the devil food it's made out to be *cough dairy propaganda cough*

IMO mercola is kind of a tool (my opinion of him due to his baseless claims) who pretty much hates everything and is a pretty big dairy advocate to boot.

All this misinformation about soy being *estrogenic* is pretty far off base. Soy contains phytoestrogens which weakly mimic estrogen and can actually block the overproduction of estrogen by normalizing the bodies estrogen production back to what it should be. I remember when I was 15-17 I used to have terrible PMS and cramps (both of these are caused by estrogen overproduction) I started drinking about 2 glasses of organic soy milk per day and without changing anything else in my diet both the PMS and cramps went away.

As for cancer and phytoestrogens, here's another perspective:

ScienceDaily (Mar. 27, 2009) — Asian-American women who ate higher amounts of soy during childhood had a 58 percent reduced risk of breast cancer, according to a study published in Cancer Epidemiology, Biomarkers and Prevention, a journal of the American Association for Cancer Research.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090324131442.htm

ScienceDaily (Jan. 16, 2006) — Research in monkeys suggests that the natural plant estrogens found in soy do not increase markers of breast cancer risk in postmenopausal women. In fact, they may provide a protective effect in some women. The research is reported today in Cancer Research
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060115154340.htm

[Mary Kay]

Inca Fairie, I agree that soy in moderation is not the devil's food. Or I should say ORGANIC soy is not. And the cancer/estrogenic thing is controversial.

Years ago, I did my own soy experiment: I was slightly hypothyroid, and wanted to see if I upped my intake of soy for two mos, if it would change it. It didn't. I think in those days I even ate really processed soy --which I won't eat nowadays though....so I was even getting the "bad" stuff.

I'll eat cooked soy occasionally....in tempeh, occasional tofu, and I make my own soymilk, oh, maybe once every six weeks, and use it to cook oatmeal for my family, then save the meal to make vegetarian burgers.... ---going back to my vegetarian protein complementarity roots...LOL.....

My thoughts anyway....

Mary Kay

[Rufassa]

My understading is that flax seeds are also pretty estrogenic...I stay away from both flax and soy for this reason.
Is the question weather Flax effects estrogen, or how. Realize that a change to a raw food diet could effect almost every hormonal system in your body.

In a study published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, when postmenopausal women ate a daily muffin containing either 25 grams (a little less than 1 ounce) of soy protein, 25 grams of ground flaxseed, or a placebo muffin containing neither for 16 weeks, the estrogen metabolism of those eating flaxseed, but not soy or placebo, was altered in several important protective ways:



Levels of 2-hydroxyestrone, a less biologically active estrogen metabolite thought to be protective against breast cancer, increased significantly.
The ratio of 2-hydroxyestrone (the protective estrogen metabolite) to 16alpha-hydroxyestrone (an estrogen metabolite thought to promote cancer) increased.
Blood levels of the estrogen fractions (estradiol, estrone, and estrone sulfate) did not change significantly-which is important since estradiol is involved in maintaining bone mass
.
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=81

[Rufassa]

I was told by someone who was referring to the Asians high consumption of soy, that their soy is ok because it's not all processed and nastified, but thinking that eating Our soy is good for you like it is for the Asians, is SO misleading.

I always though the argument was that they traditionally only ate soy after it had been fermented: soy sauce, tempe, miso, tofu, etc. They use to ferment soy over years but now they two have ways to process soy fast, hence it is hard to find traditionally fermented soy sauce and tofu, so I wander if there products are currently better.

Although we do eat fermented soy I must concede that it is not edible from its raw plant form and therefore is not a food and should probably be avoided. It doesn't resemble anything in nature by the time it is fit to eat.