empathy vs accountability

[ruffsongraw]

hey i have a Q on how you all feel about this:

i know that this forum is VERY non-judgmental and supportive.
but how do you all feel & react to a person complaining daily about their bad health conditions when they consistently make really bad choices with regard to what they eat, drink, their medical choices with regard to incessantly taking any and all prescription drugs (antibiotics and various pain meds mostly) ALL the time for every little thing that bothers them, they get medical procedures they know nothing about....etc.

this person is CONSTANTLY complaining about her health & the health of her family (who are in the same mindset). they ask the Dr nothing when he gives them an Rx or wants to stick needles in thier spines while under anesthesia--NO questions! she doesnt even know what they did or why or what to expect from it.

so i am sure you all know somebody similar---in my case i have quit giving any suggestions b/c they go in one ear & out the other.
do you feel sorry for a person like this in your life?
do you act all comapssionate to their woes when they do NOTHING to help themselves AT ALL??
how does ANY semblance of accountability for one's own health play into this?

even before i was intrtoduced to RAW, i tried to be healthy & i always asked a million Q's of my Dr for anything (& often times didnt take what he suggested). i just dont understand this & i am frustrated by it, which makes me not feel too compassionate toward her b/c she doesnt even make an attempt to help herself or ask WHY she gets migraines or WHY she has bad leg cramps all night or WHY she is constantly exhausted.

am i being mean/harsh by feeling this way (that she needs to be proactive about her health, that she needs to look into the causes of her issues & options for treatment)?

anyhow, just wondered how you all feel about ppl like this in your lives & respond when they are complaining to you.

thx.

jen

[Colorawdo girl]

Jen
I live and let live. Sometimes the following quote applies for me in these situations

"You must dare to disassociate yourself from those who would delay your journey... Leave, depart, if not physically, then mentally. Go your own way, quietly, undramatically, and venture toward trueness at last."

If it appears you cannot help her and its dragging you down, and your and her purpose with each other is fullfilled, you can wish a silent blessing and move on.(because there was some lesson there)

If I see I am irritated at someone, I simply look at me and see what it is in me that is irritated around this subject. It is always an inside job, always. Or it not bother us. If it is not,simply notice it and thats it.

added note...if I see someone being judgemental, I look and see that I have been etc.Every time it is in me.
Great you care and love her enough to want better for her!!!

[ruffsongraw]

thx...i work w/this girl. i cant really get away frm it physically, but mentally yes.
she knows i am raw. she knows i went off all meds. she knows i have MS. she misses wk all the time for things that i feel she could address if she even half tried instd of taking more drugs.... i am sad for her. i DO care. i just feel frustrated that she wont listen or try to help herself. i have no idea what i am supposed to learn from this or how it's something i need to learn...?? i dont disagree, i just cant figure it out.

thx so much. that does help. i know everyone on this list has had to deal with this at some point.....

jen

[Revvell]

i know that this forum is VERY non-judgmental and supportive.
That's not true. EVERYone is judgmental whether they'll admit it or not. It is what it is.







do you feel sorry for a person like this in your life?
No. We're all here for a purpose. That's her challenge.


do you act all comapssionate to their woes when they do NOTHING to help themselves AT ALL??

I feel compassionate but not sure what you mean by acting "all compassionate".



how does ANY semblance of accountability for one's own health play into this?

Not clear on the question but in my life I go by "Leave others to their otherness and take care of yourself".


am i being mean/harsh by feeling this way (that she needs to be proactive about her health, that she needs to look into the causes of her issues & options for treatment)?

In actuality she doesn't "need" to do anything. That's coming from you. You're judging what YOU think she "needs".




anyhow, just wondered how you all feel about ppl like this in your lives & respond when they are complaining to you.

After you've done this for awhile you'll not have people in your life like this. I don't. As CG said "disassociate" yourself from them (yes, even at work). It's really not your biz.

[ruffsongraw]

by acting all compassionate to me woudl be "oh i am so sorry you are feeling bad, i am so sorry you are having all these health issues and also your husb....etc" .

i can see how the idea of her "needing" to fix things comes from me b/c i feel like the answer is available but at the same time she is whining/complaining about it like she wants a solution, but then is closed to any suggestions i (used to) offer, so i guess she really DOESNT want a solution then??

on accountability i just mean when can you (if ever) say "hey, this is only up to you to fix & address." i do think it is. but for most that is too harsh to hear-- or say.
and yes, her health is not my biz (which i agree with), so what do i say when she starts in with the status report of her health and how bad she hurts or this or that? i try hard not to be around her when its quiet and she might start talking.... : /

thx....this does help.

[LotsaRaw]

I wholeheartedly agree with Revell's posting, so am seconding what she said.

Also, by entertaining her complaints (even to express "sorry to hear that", "that's horrible") you are allowing her to feel validated in her misery/discomfort. It's one thing for a friend to confide new medical issues, but the same 'ol stuff - I do not have the tolerance for it. Let her know you are more than happy to share good news, new news, work stuff, etc.

[Revvell]

by acting all compassionate to me woudl be "oh i am so sorry you are feeling bad, i am so sorry you are having all these health issues and also your husb....etc" .

You're buying into her bs.


i can see how the idea of her "needing" to fix things comes from me b/c i feel like the answer is available but at the same time she is whining/complaining about it like she wants a solution, but then is closed to any suggestions i (used to) offer, so i guess she really DOESNT want a solution then??

Apparently. Has she taken anything you've offered yet? There's your sign!


on accountability i just mean when can you (if ever) say "hey, this is only up to you to fix & address." i do think it is. but for most that is too harsh to hear-- or say.

Sometimes one needs a wake-up call ~ it's up to you whether you want to be the alarm. If what you're saying is accurate then you're just trying to shovel smoke.


and yes, her health is not my biz (which i agree with), so what do i say when she starts in with the status report of her health and how bad she hurts or this or that? i try hard not to be around her when its quiet and she might start talking.... : /

thx....this does help.

"blah, blah, blah" O.k., sincerely ~ "I've heard this before; you're not willing to listen or take action on what I have to tell you so, until you are, let's not talk about this anymore, agreed?"

Or ~ HEY! Enough already! I'm tired of hearing it. You're paying your doctor, tell him/her!

Choices! :D ;)

[T-Bird]

Just be a broken a record about raw, lol!


Everything she complains - her health, hubby health, etc.

This month: "you know, being raw would probably knock that out in 3 months, why not give it try?"

Next month "you haven't started into raw to deal with that problem yet??"


3rd month "you'd be well on your way to healing if you'd started up raw when I first suggested it"


4th month "You must like being that way if you won't even give raw a chance"


Say these things EACH AND EVERY time she complains. Be so boring - she stops talking to you about it!!!


LOL!

You may have nothing to learn by this - but she might. If you do the above, move on never see again because one or both of you switch jobs.....You never know if she gets to the point she can't go on, maybe suddenly the flashbulb pops on and she really does give raw a try.

Never underestimate a person's ability to grow and change.......but while waiting, never let them bore and frustrate you and waste your time with their ranting.


JMO

[T-Bird]

"blah, blah, blah" O.k., sincerely ~ "I've heard this before; you're not willing to listen or take action on what I have to tell you so, until you are, let's not talk about this anymore, agreed?"

Yea - maybe confront her with her boringness!

"look Helen, I really care about you. But how many hours of my life do you think I need to spend listening to your symptoms? Especially when I offer advice you don't take??? I don't have anything else to say to you about this!

Here's what's going on in my life...."

And tell her about the new nifty raw affects!

[ruffsongraw]

yay! thank you for sll the good suggestions!!

jen

[pixie_333]

usualy those with illnesses and diseases and even the flu is from result from low energy levels and things like chakras etc out of whack. sometimes getting attacked by entites to which most people have not a clue how entites affect every single human being and how they work. from getting sick, to attracting people, false beingness of inlove feelings, yelling at people, getting irritated in most cases etc. *when we yell and argue with people it isn't us doing it...*
genes can also have a factor... and in more way than one she resembles with the traits of her family getting ill.
and unfortunetly most people have been mind controled to believe in the medical world. i know some people too stuborn and blinded to see it.

so this womans energy is low and she keeps talking about it with you because you give her energy!!!!!!! even discussing it and your getting upset she won't take your advice etc.
if you stop leaking your energy to her and not get upset etc and change the subject and so on... she'll get a shock treatment and leave you alone eventualy and will help her out too.
negativity needs negative energy to live on.
why do you keep giving her your energy when she proves over and over again she won't take your advice? why be her punching bag? see if you can focus on the beautiful things about her or depart and detach. my advice.

[RawSar]

Sounds like the type of person who's waiting for that magic little pill that will magically make all their problems disappear! But then what would they have to complain about??
Some people just love to complain.
I know many people that are like what you have described.
Rarely ever do I see them now (some were close friends) and when I do I avoid all conversations about health otherwise its a very short visit and I have better/more important things to do in my life - listening to people complain is not one of them.

Rainbows and butterflies :)

[*RayRay*]

Here is something I have been practicing in my own life lately....
it is advice I heard from Matthew Ferry who teaches manifestation.....

**Be accepting of ALL PEOPLE, at ALL TIMES, in ALL SITUATIONS, including YOURSELF**

That's not to say you have to feed into her bs, just accept her and if need be tell her you are not interested....
It's not your job to change anyone, just accept that she is on her own journey, and you are on yours.....

[Stina]

Here is something I have been practicing in my own life lately....
it is advice I heard from Matthew Ferry who teaches manifestation.....

**Be accepting of ALL PEOPLE, at ALL TIMES, in ALL SITUATIONS, including YOURSELF**

That's not to say you have to feed into her bs, just accept her and if need be tell her you are not interested....
It's not your job to change anyone, just accept that she is on her own journey, and you are on yours.....

Yes, that really resonates with me. My mother is a food addict, knows it, suffers, and periodically gets relief from it with an abstinent food plan and a spiritual fellowship. I think guilt and mixed-up emotions and just the addiction itself pulls her back down. I seem to inadvertently help her just by accepting her, loving her and letting my raw light shine. It helps pull her up without draining me. But it's been a long journey to get to this space.

[RawHeaven]

Jen, the person you are describing is choosing to be sick and gains some sort of satisfaction from being sick and complaining about it. On one hand, it's an attempt to garner attention from the almighty doctors, friends, family, neighbors and to fill holes in the battered psyche and validate low self-esteem. On the other hand, it has everything to do with being entrenched in the current non-health care system/ever flowing and conflicting nutrition 'anxiety producing' information/obesity epidemic/boutique disease quagmire. It's a vicious cycle and I think there are many people unfortunately that fit in this category. This is the type of person that is actually driving the health care system and those who are making a profit, do not want them to take the reins of their health into their own hands. This unconscious state, whether it's the system or the "sick" person feeds upon itself and are attracted to one another like magnets. We are living in the same culture, yet we have managed to rise above this because we are in touch with who we are in most cases.

Our vibration is higher and we are able to see the whole picture as we learn, grow and expand. If you focus on this, it helps keep your compassion and empathy level. Realizing it's a lower form of energy they're sitting in and that we all have the same information, we all have the same capability to rise above. They are no different than us, only in that they are stuck and cannot see. This is where compassion will go a long way, but it certainly doesn't mean you're "responsible" for them. Therein, lies the difference. Of course, I know folks like this as well. Within my own family. I love them and send love and remain in a compassionate space. It is very difficult to stay neutral at times. It is not always an easy thing to do for me as well, but we really have no control over anyone else's choices in life. We can only affect change within ourselves, demonstrate and intend it will shift if our life path is a humanitarian one. I have a sense that you are a humanitarian and it's why it makes it even more challenging for you. You care. Keep doing what you're doing and stay in your heart. I think it's a good idea you have to stop giving this particular person advice. Use your beautiful energy to uplift yourself and influence those who come to you for advice. Then you will keep your own energy high, light, happy and inspired. You tend to match this self-destructive energy that takes you out of your body and makes you moody, apathetic and sad. This is not your energy. This is her energy. This is why it's critical for you to stay in your heart & neutral to people like this. They impact you on a deep level because you are a healer. :)

Crystal

[margoss]

For many, it's easier to let someone else tell them what to do vs doing something about it themselves. It also gets them a lot of attention.

[EZ rider]

I think some people turn over responsibility for their health to a doctor because then its someone else's problem.

[ruffsongraw]

thank you all for the wonderful responses !!
they all offer soemthign to aspire to adn strive to be. i get to a point where i run out of patience. so many ppl think that bad health is just a bad hand of cards they were dealt and they should be pitied. i dont believe that. i think raw is such an empowering way to be, that we take our helath and physical condition into our own ahnds and fix it. it's a little harder than popping a pill (at first). i see all the ads on TV for thousands of drugs tot ake for the most MINOIR if things, with long lists of side affects ("...including death..." to get an erection!!). it would be funny if it wasn't so prolifically and blindly followed.
i try not to chat with her at all and if i get trapped i avoid any health topics and if she embarks down the road of what's wrong with her, i just say "hmmm..." and dont ask any Q's or suggestions. the less i know makes me feel better about her self-induced plight.

thank you all so much!!