A "humane" way of preventing cat's pregancies?

[Cerellia]

Hi,

I love cats and as soon as I have the possibility to provide an appropriate living space for them, I want to get one or two little pet lions.
But obviously, I don't want them to have babies all the time. Castration is not a humane solution, in my opinion. I just don't think it is right to take away another creature's sexuality. Plus, the operation seems to be horrible for the little moggies. Hormone drugs are also out of question: my pets are going to live as natural as I do.
I am thinking about sterilisation: it's a much more gentle operation and it doesn't interfere with their hormonal balance. Most vets don't recomend sterilisation, though. They say that the cats suffer when they are in heat and don't have the chance to "let off steam" (But I would let my cats go outside, where they can do whatever they like). Also, cats that are not castrated tend to get into fights more often und are more likely to run away.
Any suggestions?

[Colorawdo girl]

I might only see one way. Keep the boys and girls apart. :rolleyes:

[Cerellia]

Thats difficult when they go outside.

[Colorawdo girl]

Yes I would say so. hmmmmmmm. Tough challenge.

[ruffsongraw]

hi,
little biased here---i worked at an animal hosp for many yrs. while spaying or neutering isnt *nice* it is the only way to ENSURE that you will not add to the enormous pet overpopulation.
female cats in heat are really, truly miserable until they are bred (& they DO wander in search of sexuial partners!). going thru that every 4 - 6 weeks is harder on them and you than one surgery (IMO).

un-neutered male cats SPRAY URINE inside and out, anywhere they want to mark as their own & they also wander in search of mates, and get in bad tom-cat fights that end up causing abscesses & requiring sutures, etc.... Also in these wanderings either one can get hit by a car or attacked/killed by dogs--etc.

for me, and i have 3 indoor cats and 6 outdoor barn cats that are all "fixed", i cannot live with either of the above 2 situations. i love my cats & dont want them to wander or get in tom or get injured or pregnant. also, believe it or not, there are dog STD's (!!) and these may also begin to occur in cats as well at some point (altho i personally have not seen that).

there are of course argumnets out there to the contrary but in every day real life, those things are deal breakers to me.

if there is a sterilization procedure available to you (i know they do vasectomies on ferrets but a vasectimized male cat would still spray and have the dominant/aggressive tom cat territorial/wandering from home hormones, drives & behaviors) then you can try of course, but ask whether that procedure will eliminate the above.
OR if those issues dont bother you....

there arent any good answers to this Q in my opinion. any way you go, there are unpleasant things.

jen

[ruffsongraw]

PS---i want to add, that altho i ADORE my animals, if they are not altered, their main goal in life is to pro-create. that is how God made them & for that reason i think it is unrealistic to attempt to keep males/females apart or indoors or securely contained outdoors. they are motivated by hormones to go and mate and to fight to do so and if they have to jump a fence or dash thru an opened door at the speed of light, or if they are driven to spray urine all over or to meow all night long for a mate, then you have to look at the reality that they live in the here and weigh whether 2 days of surgical pain is less stressful/dangerous for them than a life of yearnings they cannot fulfill or if they DO fulfill them then you've created more....and meanwhile your house is all sprayed....sorry, i ramble.
i live in an area with HUGE pet overpopulation issues. i see live skinny stray dogs eating the carccasses of dead strays that were run over. none are spayed/neutered and they dont have homes or food....i see it every day. its sick. i also see LOTS of hit cats that are also intact and searching for mates....

goodluck.

jen

[Cerellia]

Hi,

Thanks for your detailed reply. I totally agree with you that you can't just let them procreate. If someone wants a cat, s/he should get it from an animal instituation, there is really no need to rear more of them.
As for the castration issue: I really think you are doing more to the animal than a painful operation. I have seen cats totally changing their personality after they have been castrated.
As you said, there isn't a perfect solution.

[rawlight]

I just don't think it is right to take away another creature's sexuality.

I have seen cats totally changing their personality after they have been castrated.
Any suggestions?

I think it's very important not to project our human feelings about castration/spaying onto our animal companions. By bringing them into our homes, we automatically change them. For that reason, we should make their lives as comfortable as possible. If you've ever seen (or heard!) a cat in heat who isn't gettin' any, it's not something you want to experience. It's not the pleasure they are looking for (which is a human emotion) it's release of those procreation urges.

You said you don't want them to have babies all the time. Please don't let them have babies ANY time. There are so many sick, hurt, unwanted cats on the streets, as well as so many in shelters who need homes as it is. Don't perpetuate this already sad and painful situation by having more....

I'm confused though when you say you know uncastrated males fight more and run away, yet you would let them outside? You would be putting them at undo risk wouldn't you? My male cat Kai is just over 12 years old. He's an indoor outdoor cat and spends most days lounging outside in the backyard under a bush or in the sun. There is nothing unhappy or frustrated about my guy. Why would I want to make him spend his life with urges he can't satisfy?

[Veronica01]

My baby is an 8 year old male main coone cat. He's indoor/outdoor and we got him nuetered when he was 6 months old i think. He has never been territorial with other cats or openly been aggressive or fought. He doesn't like confrontation and ignores or walks away from cats he doesn't like. He is the most loving, affectionate and attentive cat i've ever seen or had. He loves even being in the same room as me when he sleeps, or if im outside he'll sleep behind my lawn chair. Often he meows ar me once he's oustide for me to sit there with him. I had to have him declawed too for my last rental place, and it was so sad and i felt so sorry for him but he is truly happy and still mock scratches things occaisionally. And now i dont have to torture him and hold him by trying to clip his claws every week. I don't know, i know he didn't have a perfect life, but he sure is happy. I want to switch him to raw food next. :)

[Cerellia]

To avoid misunderstandings: I'm not going to have my cats having babies.
The three ways, I know, to prevent this are:

1) castration
The removal of the uterus or respectively the testicles. Especially for female cats, it is a major operation. The cats suffer from this operation for about 3 days, but some cats will be sensitive at their belly for the rest of their life.
A castrated animal does not produce any sexual hormones and looses their sexual drive. Along with the prevention of pregnancies go other advantages, such as less rivalty with other cats and a closer relation to their owners (but I wonder if it is right to alter their personality like that). Up to now, any cat I have seen comming back from castration seemed to be emotionally hurt.

2) sterilisation
Instead of removing the reproduction organs, they only cut the oviduct or spermatic ducts. For female cats it is a much more gentle operation.
The animal will still produce sexual hormones and can enjoy sex.
As far as I know, the cats will still get in heat with all the disadvantages that have already been mentioned. But I thought, if the cats can go outside and follow their sexual drive, they won't suffer from the heat (?).

3) The pill
You can mix the anti-baby pill into their food. This drug is very unhealthy and if they don't eat up their food, they are not protected. This option is out of question for me.

[GlimR]

I have nine cats, or they have me, however you want to look at it. They are all kitties who have been rescued as very young kittens and are between eight and twelve years old. All but one are indoor cats and never go outside, even to the vet. Too many animals here are killed by cars or dogs so we have chosen to keep them safe this way. We have one who comes here to the house.....even uses bach's to calm then. They have all been spayed or neutered. They coexist beautifully and as far as I can tell have not now or ever had any emotional damage due to the procedure. If they look "hurt" it is most likely the effect of the anesthesia. None of my kitties have ever had any complication from the surgery either.
I don't believe for one second that it is a disservice to an animal at all and considering the terrible problem of overpopulation of stray cats a very viable solution and IMO the best one for the animal and for its human companion.

Wishing you joy when you and your babes find each other.

[Ilse W.]

I've been "altered" and I don't think I changed in a negative way :D:D:D.
You say castration is unnatural? So is turning an animal into a pet. As long as we do THAT, we should also make sure that we don't create a lot of unwanted animals. That wouldn't be "nice" either. How about you compromise and give a shelter cat a good home? That cat would aready be altered, your conscience would be "clean", but you wouldn't add to the cat overpopulation while making an animal and yourself happy!

[Broken Aquarian]

Cats are domestic animals - their hormones and drives are changed because of selective breeding. They really are not like wild animals and should not have the same privelages as them.

Letting your cat run free, unsupervised is no different than letting your dog run free. It's not ok and it is irresponsible.

If you are a good owner of domestic animals, you will find a way to exercise their need for mental and physical stimulation without putting them in harms way.

My dogs have killed 3 cats in the last year. This would not have happened if people would not allow their cats to roam. These people will never know what happened to their pet. That sounds horrible and cruel, but it's true.


People think cats are great hunters with great instincts - I can tell you that a dog barrelling down on a cat will make it forget everything and freeze. They aren't lions in the savannah - they are domestic animals that don't have the skills of wild ones.

Allowing your animals to keep the hormones(even if they can't breed) is a huge cancer risk. Every time they go into heat - there is a big hormone surge in the body - causes cancers and other health risks. The surges are not comfortable at all and it is a very stressful time for them - both physically and mentally.

Domestic animals are not natural in the least - so they have to be controlled. I personally would want my animal to be as stress free as possible, while also being healthy.

I would have the hormone producing organs removed. Animals do not dwell on the past and they do not miss their testicles/uterus' when gone.

That is a human emotion being projected on the animal. Though, if you go to someone who does a bad job on the surgery, it may cause ongoing health problems for the animal.

Always do your research and shop around for someone to do medical procedures (on you AND your pets) :)

[SmilingRawDancer]

I think you should have your cats spayed and neutered. I think it is one of the facts of this modern life that we have to accept. What is inhumane is having stray cats wandering the streets, getting run over, getting into cat fights, starving to death, dying of diseases and needing homes.

Keep your cats indoors. I have 3 beautiful, healthy and happy cats who have never stepped outside in their lives. They "hunt" each other and all the moths and bugs we have around the house, they eat grass and greens that I bring in for them, and they don't have fleas.


P.S. one of my cats is NOT fixed, and she has tumors/cysts on her stomach from all the hormonal changes. Now she is nearing/at the end of her life, and NOW I wouldn't put her through the surgery, but I wish we would have done it when she was younger. She acts truly miserable when she is in heat.

[Cerellia]

You say castration is unnatural? So is turning an animal into a pet.

Yes, but since cats are hardly able to survive on their own in the "civilised" world, those who have the possibility to provide a shelter, as appropriate as possible, for those who are already there, should do so.



As long as we do THAT, we should also make sure that we don't create a lot of unwanted animals. That wouldn't be "nice" either.

As I said from the beginning, I'm not thinking of letting my cats procreate.



How about you compromise and give a shelter cat a good home? That cat would aready be altered, your conscience would be "clean", but you wouldn't add to the cat overpopulation while making an animal and yourself happy!

Getting the cat from a cat breeder is defenetly out of question, because that would raise the demand in kittens and they would breed more, while there are still a lot homeless cats. But if I adopt a stray cat, it will probably not be castrated and those from the cat shelters are neighter when they are under a certain age.



Cats are domestic animals - their hormones and drives are changed because of selective breeding. They really are not like wild animals and should not have the same privelages as them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felis_silvestris_lybica <--- this is the progenitor of our cats. Does not seem to have changed so much.


People think cats are great hunters with great instincts - I can tell you that a dog barrelling down on a cat will make it forget everything and freeze. They aren't lions in the savannah - they are domestic animals that don't have the skills of wild ones.

Cats can be good hunters if they have learned it from the beginning, most haven't.



I know that cats suffer when they are in heat and can't "get it", but how about if they can "get it" (obviously without the risk of getting pregnant, because they are sterilised)?

[rawlight]

Cerellia, as much as I disagree with most of your thinking, I *do* want to compliment you on all the research you are doing. It's obvious that you have taken this very seriously and your future pets will be better off for the knowledge you have.

As others here have said in different ways, for better or worse our domestication of cats and dogs has totally messed with their genetic pool. All those thousands of years ago when the first wolf walked into that village and was befriended by that human (or however the story goes!), it was all over for the wildness in the dogs to come after. By taking them into our homes and communities, we've bred out so much of their natural instincts. They can't really live on their own as they did way back when. I believe, in exchange for this sacrifice, we owe it to them to make them as happy and comfortable as possible.

Spaying and neutering is a *gift* to our animals in my opinion and to our society as well. I hope you will go to a vet, tell him or her your concerns about it and see what they have to say.

I do take your concerns seriously, but just want to tell you this little story: at the dog park last year, someone said their neighbor was very reluctant to neuter his dog. He projected his human feelings on him and felt it would emasculate his dog. He investigated some leads and found a vet who neutered dogs and gave them testicle implants. :D So now the neighbors are happy, the dog is happy and the man...feels a lot better about himself-lol

This just shows us how prevalent are our human projections on our animals! (and how we start new industries)!!

[buffalogal]

I happen to think that having cats spayed or neutered IS the only "humane" way of preventing cat's pregnancies!! They are only uncomfortable for a very short time during and after the surgery. Then they are free to enjoy a wonderful life without ever procreating!!! I volunteer with a wonderful TNR (trap, neuter, return) organization which has "fixed" thousands of feral cats, thereby preventing 10s or 100s of thousands of kittens, who would only end up like their parents.....continuously multiplying. It breaks my heart to see the many beautiful little kittens that are turned in to the SPCA to be euthanized especially in the springtime. How sad. When all it takes to prevent it is responsible OWNERS!! PLEEEEEEEASE HAVE YOUR CATS FIXED!!!

[Ilse W.]

The shelters here won't let you have an unaltered cat.

[Myca]

I've had lots and lots and lots of cats over the years. It is much more humane to spay them, than to watch how miserable they are in heat, locked up to keep the boys away. I don't think I have ever seen a more miserable animal. Save yourself and kitty some pain, go get it spayed.

[Broken Aquarian]

but how about if they can "get it" (obviously without the risk of getting pregnant, because they are sterilised)?

Cats don't have sex for fun or for pleasure. They breed because they have a hormonal instinct to do so. If you keep the testicles on the cat, but snip the tubes - they are still going to suffer the hormone surges that an intact cat does.

Same goes for the females - they will still go into heat, but they will not get pregnant. If they're still going into heat, that means they are also still having hormone surges - they are still miserable and they can still get cancer and stress related illnesses from it.

They are not happy, they aren't like people and don't let off steam - If you put a male in a room full of females in heat - he wouldn't stop trying to mate with them, because it's not about him being satisfied, it's about a natural instinct/drive. He can't control it and he can't stop it. It's not that he wants to do it, it's that he HAS to do it.

The human male sex drive has nothing on an animal in heat - the hormone/drive is so much stronger, you can't even compare the two.

I'd also like to point out that since your cats are not wild animals - they should not be hunting birds, rats, mice or moles -(unless they are in your home/small yard - not on distant property) those animals are food for the true wild animals - you are disrupting the natural food chain and putting a stress on your local ecosystem.
They are not wild, so they should not be eating the wild animals food source.

[SmilingRawDancer]

^^ I agree. And might I mention that sex is VERY PAINFUL for female cats. Google exactly what goes on. Lets just say spiky stuff on the male....

[Broken Aquarian]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that -
A Tom Cat has a barbed penis - it hurts the female to breed. When he withdraws, the barbs scrape/scratch the birth canal - this is why a lot of cats scream during mating.

It is definitely not fun for the female - it hurts, but she's driven to do it because of hormonal instinct/drive.

[Inca_faerie]

My baby is an 8 year old male main coone cat. He's indoor/outdoor and we got him nuetered when he was 6 months old i think. He has never been territorial with other cats or openly been aggressive or fought. He doesn't like confrontation and ignores or walks away from cats he doesn't like. He is the most loving, affectionate and attentive cat i've ever seen or had. He loves even being in the same room as me when he sleeps, or if im outside he'll sleep behind my lawn chair. Often he meows ar me once he's oustide for me to sit there with him. I had to have him declawed too for my last rental place, and it was so sad and i felt so sorry for him but he is truly happy and still mock scratches things occaisionally. And now i dont have to torture him and hold him by trying to clip his claws every week. I don't know, i know he didn't have a perfect life, but he sure is happy. I want to switch him to raw food next. :)

Veronica!! You have a maine coon?!? Aren't they the BEST!?:D I have a 6 month old black maine coon/himalayan and he is the sweetest little guy (he is a bit of a trouble maker though and he eats like a monster, he even likes fruits and veggies)

Cerellia, by not wanting to get your cat spayed because you don't want to take away it's "sexuality", you are bringing HUMAN stuff into this. Like others have said, dogs and cats don't feel the need for sexual gratification and the apperant urge to hump everything in sight like us ridiculous humans *monkey creatures :D* Honestly, humans gross me out sometimes (being as sex obsessed as we are) thank god most animals aren't like this, it's one of the reasons I respect them more.

Seriously, you wanna put your cat on birth control?? Now that would be cruel. I don't know what the effect of BC would be for cats but probably similar to how it is in humans causing depression, weight gain, weakened immune response.

You want your cats to be happy? Love them, cuddle them, feed them good nurtious food, play with them, do them a favor and leave your human stuff out of it and GET THEM FIXED. They will live longer happier healthier lives as a result. Maybe go to your local animal shelter and have a look at the poor beautiful animals having to spend their lives in cages (or be killed) as a result of some idiot not taking the proper care to spay/neauter their pets and if that won't motivate you to spay/neuter I don't know what will.

[SmilingRawDancer]

OMG I have a black maine coon too!!! He is THE BEST. He "trills" and coos all the time, and he is the best bug hunter - not to mention the prettiest guy around. You would think by looking at him that he'd have a deep, manly meow - not the case AT ALL. He sounds more girly then my 2 female cats combined haha

Oh, and he loves water. He plays in water and sinks all the time. Unfortunately he likes the toilet too.

And mine too eats ALL THE TIME. Avocadoes and popcorn are his favorites.

[ruffsongraw]

Cerelia,
please consider the above info that cats do not (nor do any other animals besides humnas) have recreational sex.
it is painful for them AS WELL AS the potential transmission of STD's and other unhealthy risks they would not be exposed to if alteres. beleive me, the first time your female cat is YOWLING all night and backing up into protruding objects you will wonder what you were thinking. she will NOT be happier being left intact. then you will have all manner of stray tom cats carousing outside your home, fighting, raping her, spraying everything they can (so smelly). also any male cat you have vasectemized wil do the same, fight with those other cats that the female heat scent will attract in droves.

lions and other wild cats come into heat ONCE a year (as do wolves and other wild canids). MAN has developed them into cycling TWICE a year. cats will stay in heat until bred usually and up to a week even if they are bred (they dont immed go out).

please do more research. you have to choose the lesser of 2 evils.

most shelters will not adopt out an un-sterilized animal (if of age, which is getting earlier and earlier!) and will require proof of sterilization later if they allow a younger cat to leave. some shelters can "re-possess" the adopted animal if not altered.

goodluck. loook for a good vet who uses Isofluorane (the safest gas anesthesia) and also Propoflo or other pain medication post-op. pricier to do it this way but easier on the cat.

i would advise you to visit un-altered cats of both genders and ask the pros and cons of the owners. since you cannot deprive a cat of something they dont naturally do (recreational sex) and since you also cannot "deprive" them of an activity they have never experienced anyhow (sex, if altered before those drives appear) then you are doing a disservice to the cats if they are allowed to pine and yearn to mate, exposing them to fights, disease, vaginal pain---etc. your neighbors will also be angry with yowling spraying cats being attracted to your yard...

jen