gum disease

[GreenJB5]

hello raw friends

i need some advice. I have been getting regular dental cleaning twice a year. When they poke the metal thingy between the tooth and gum it hurt. All dentists told me that my teeth were sensitive. So today i had to see gum specailist due to a crack tooth. (another story) He had to check the gums and it hurt when he poked the metal thingy. he told me that i have gum disease. I was very shock for three reasons. 1) previous dentists never told me i had gum disease. 2) Since going raw a few years ago, my teeth have seem better than when i was SAD. 3) i showed no signs. Then i was shock again when he told me there was no cure and i must see him every three months for deep cleaning. :eek: and he said i have to do this or it would cause problems to my internal organs. The cleaning will cause me hundreds of dollars. If you are raw and have gum problems please share your story.

[Humanist]

Dissolve 3 tablespoons of salt in 8 ounces of distilled water. Rinse your mouth at bedtime, for just a few seconds. Spit it out and rinse well with clean water. This will kill the bacteria that cause gum disease.

[RawLibrarian]

hello raw friends

i need some advice. I have been getting regular dental cleaning twice a year. When they poke the metal thingy between the tooth and gum it hurt. All dentists told me that my teeth were sensitive. So today i had to see gum specailist due to a crack tooth. (another story) He had to check the gums and it hurt when he poked the metal thingy. he told me that i have gum disease. I was very shock for three reasons. 1) previous dentists never told me i had gum disease. 2) Since going raw a few years ago, my teeth have seem better than when i was SAD. 3) i showed no signs. Then i was shock again when he told me there was no cure and i must see him every three months for deep cleaning. :eek: and he said i have to do this or it would cause problems to my internal organs. The cleaning will cause me hundreds of dollars. If you are raw and have gum problems please share your story.

Get a second opinion. The endodontist is quite correct that gum disease causes major systemic problems--there is a link between gum disease and heart disease; it is nothing to take lightly. However, before embarking on a very expensive treatment program just on his say-so, I'd get it checked by someone else. You might also think about changing dentists if you do in fact have gum disease--you have been keeping up with professional cleanings, and gum disease is not difficult to spot. If you really do have gum disease, the dentist should have spotted if before now. I gather that you floss? If not, start pronto, and the advice about using salt water is very good too.

[RawKnitster]

Have you noticed pink on your toothbrush? Do your gums bleed when you floss? Do they bleed when you get your teeth cleaned. All signs of periodontal disease. Do you feel sensitivity to hot or cold? That could be because the receding gums have exposed root surface which may be sensitive, at least at first.

I've been dealing with it for 30 years. In my 20's the pockets were so deep that I had gum surgery. I had more surgery done years later, only by then it was with a laser. The disease never seemed to improve despite the surgeries, cleanings and medicated rinses, After 15 years I lost my dental insurance and stopped going to that Periodontist. I found a regular dentist (DDS) to clean my teeth. My first cleaning with the new dentist took 2 visits and cost $600. They gave me novocaine and did some deep scraping. It took a while for the gums to heal, but they did. I take great care to brush after eating and floss every night. I still have gum pockets, mostly 2 to 4 in depth, but there are a couple 5's. I've been in a holding pattern at that level for the last 15 years.

Did the dentist tell you your pocket measurements? Rinsing with salt water and perhaps oil pulling may help keep some bacteria in check, but if the pockets are too deep to be cleaned with a toothbrush and floss you must have it done professionally. I get my teeth cleaned every 3-4 months. The hygenist is always pleased that I do so well keeping them clean, but she still has to scrape tartar and plaque in those deep pockets that I simply can't reach.

Last year I found some relief from the cost issue by getting dental insurance thru AARP. I was paying over $800 a year for just 4 cleanings. The plan I found costs $48 a month and pays 100% of the cost of 3 cleanings, (and helps pay for other procedures, too). If I want that 4th cleaning a year I have to pay for it, but the price is reduced from $200 to $71.

About 12 years ago I was having some trouble in one quadrant and my dentist suggested going to a periodontal specialist (again). I did. She wanted to do gum surgery on four teeth for $4,000. I refused. About 2 years ago I went back to her for a look at one tooth in another area. She couldn't help me with that tooth and suggested seeing in endodontist, but more importantly, she didn't find anything wrong with the area that she had previously wanted to do gum surgery on.

I guess you can tell this is a subject I'm sensitive about. Definitely shop around and be your own advocate.

[GreenJB5]

thank you so much your help

Rawknitster: thanks for your story. i understand your pain. I have not notice bleeding gum when i floss or brush my teeth. but there is a small amount of blood when the dentist performs my cleaning. I have been thinking about getting a new dentist but i have been have problems with a wisdom tooth that cause damanges to one of the molder. the wisdom tooth is out but i still have the damages. So i had to get a root canal on that tooth which cuased a hairline fracture. so they sent me to the peridontist to see if he can remove some of the gum so that they can fit a crown. But he told me that i had gum disease. (And i hate when they talk that you have so much money and can begin the procedure right away.) he did recommend to use waterpik.

is it true that there is no cure?

[RawKnitster]

Yep. When you visit a periodontist, they are always going to find gum disease. Funny how that works. I tried the sonic toothbrush and the water pik, with the special thin stream attachment, using Listerine...none of that helped me.

Now I use Uncle Harry's Toothpaste, occasionally a mix of baking soda and celtic sea salt ground finely. If I have any bleeding or tenderness I oil pull for a few days or rinse with a solution of half water/half hydrogen peroxide. That and a diet rich in nutrients (greens) seems to be keeping everything in check (knock on wood). It's my alternative to rinsing with Listerine and Fluriode rinses, which is what my dentist suggests. Yuck.

Best Wishes!

[michigan roman]

gargling with golden seal root powder ive read many a times good for gum infections , an excellent source ive dealt with many times =

www.mountainroseherbs.com

[Humanist]

Get a book called "Understanding Gum Disease" by Jerome Hill.

[mstrish]

Try toothsoap. Google it. It's a small company run by a mom. I have been using the product for 3 yrs and HAD gum disease but DO NOT have it anymore.
Best,
Trish

[Arky]

Calcium deficiency.

Check you are REALLY getting sufficient calcium in your diet - NOT by just listening to raw foodists who say 'oh, there's plenty if you eat a wide spectrum of foods'. I mean actually examine what quantities of calcium-rich foods you are eating, and then do the maths. If you go vegan (this is a vegan board), then you will not be consuming bone-stocks or dairy sources of calcium. This means that you will need to make a very deliberate and concerted effort to satisfy your body's daily calcium requirements. Please don't make the same mistake I did, and just allow this to slide - you WILL regret it in the longrun, but you still have time to rectify the situation now.

Also check other historical posts in the board archives, re necessary nutrients to improve &/or enable efficient uptake of calcium within the human digestive system. It will take time and patience to trawl through the archives but how important is your health to you..?


In short, you need to:


1) Obtain sufficient calcium from your diet.

2) Ensure that you are not excreting excessive quantities of calcium (e.g. by eating excessive levels of fruit sugars etc.)

3) Ensure that the calcium that you consume is being effectively absorbed. Certain fats are important for this, as is a sufficient level of stomach acidity (you may choose to get this checked professionally, if you are uncertain). Dr. Ralph Golan's book 'Optimal Health' is a useful resource for understanding such issues.

4) Ensure you are consuming sufficient magnesium (generally this is somewhat less of an effort to achieve, than the calcium intake requirements, since it is widely available in foods, but you nonetheless need to make an effort to calculate your approximate dietary intake, to ensure you are not short-changing your body of this critical mineral). If you experience above-average muscle stiffness or muscle tremors, then this is (NOT exclusively) a possible indication that you may be deficient in calcium or magnesium.

5) In addition to all the above, one should obviously follow all the usual advice for dental hygiene, to minimise the proliferation of undesirable acid-producing bacteria beneath the gumline. An oral irrigator is an extremely useful tool to assist you in keeping gum disease under control. Do ensure that if you use one, you keep it on a relatively low setting, though, or you can damage your gums further.

6) Beware much of the, frankly harmful (in the longrun), dietary dogma with regard to dental health on a raw vegan diet. I can tell you from personal experience that the world is full of raw vegan authors who delude themselves (whether it be intentionally or unintentionally) and, unfortunately, others, on this topic, to the detriment of their dental health. Please note that I am not criticising raw-vaganism per se - There are those on the raw diet who are courageous enough to be honest and upfront about the issues involved, but many (even some well-known authors who call themseves 'Dr.') are more interested in adhering to a strict dietary philosophy than they are in actually facing some hard facts. Don't be afraid to look outside the box; it's YOUR health you're dealing with, not someone else's blinkered dietary idealisms.

7) Lastly, you might consider being tested for possible parasite issues, but I would first ensure the previous points are taken care of.


Arky.

[*RayRay*]

he said i have to do this or it would cause problems to my internal organs. The cleaning will cause me hundreds of dollars.

interesting that this 'dis-ease' has not been noticed by any previous dentist, and that the treatment involves you paying this guy lots of money every three months....supposedly forever....! Sounds fishy to me.....

[GreenJB5]

Thank you Arky. yes i was considering increasing my calcium intake. and i agree with you completely. Although i dont have plaque on my teeth since i went raw, i am having other issues. I am having problems with my wisdom teeth, cavitivies (sp?), bad breath, etc.

RayRay: yeap thought it was kind of fishy as well but since i have been having issues with my teeth then maybe it could be true.


Mstrish: do you think dr bonner will give me the same results. I hate buying stuff on line. i like to pay cash for my items and protect for id theft I called all health stores in my area and no one heard of toothsoap

[Colorawdo girl]

Hands down..soap for teeth.
Heres the link http://www.quantumbalancing.com/news/saveteeth.htm


Heres the reason


5) Reenamelization of the teeth occurs when they are clean. All toothpastes make a barrier of glycerine on the teeth which would require 20 rinses to get it off. A good solution for clean teeth, which I have used for 5 years, is bar soap. Wet the brush, swipe the bar two or three times with it, then brush the teeth thoroughly and the gums gently. Rinse with water three or four times. All oils are washed off the teeth and the gums are disinfected. The bacteria are killed by the soap. The teeth are then ready for reenamelization with calcium and phosphate in the diet. The enzyme adenosine diphosphatase delivers phosphate to the enamel surface. Do not use liquid soaps. Their different composition is harmful to the protoplasm.

Reenamelization is necessary on a daily basis because the enamel leaches slightly with water as well as the bones over decades leading to holey bones and holey teeth even in the absence of acid attack. Without reenamelization, we could never have good teeth.

oh n I dont buy the hype.