Constant daytime fatigue, gone at night, can't fall asleep

[Veronica01]

I have had the same problem my whole life with not being able to drag myself out of bed until after snoozing for 20-30 minutes more. When I was a kid in school I used to fall asleep in my morning classes until after lunch. Now at a job, almost every day I feel so tired that I could pass out at any moment all the way up to 3-4pm. I have always eaten breakfast, lunch and dinner and used to eat mostly fruits and veggies anyways before being raw. I attempt to go to bed every night at 10:30 but I am just not tired at all until midnight, it usually takes me about 45 minutes to fall asleep because my brain won't shut off and i get distracted and think about things and forget im trying to sleep. I can't help it. Even if I get 8 hours of sleep every weekday, I need about 12 hours on the weekend to get over my exhaustion.

At work I do sit and read and type, but i am always getting up to get some water, wash some fruit or go to the bathroom, but I honestly can't keep my brain awake and i almost pass out numerous times that i have to pinch myself.

I have not noticed a difference yet being on raw, I am still extremely tired. I don't feel more tired after eating, I'm just always tired until 3 or 4 pm, at 5 when i go home i am completely alert and not tired again until midnight. I never nap ever, even at night, i wouldn't be able to. Is there something wrong with me? Even as a baby my mom said I slept all the time, i was never awake and never woke up because i was hungry, i just slept until she woke me up. Does anyone else have this problem? Sometimes I even have a hard time staying awake when i'm driving for long periods as well.

[mattshor]

have you been evaluated for narcolepsy? You might want to have a full sleep study done.

[Veronica01]

No... because I don't actually fall asleep all the time. And it's only during the early morning of the day and mid afternoon. It's just that foggy feeling that you can't concentrate and your eyes unfocus and you have to try to stay awake.

[mattshor]

Sounds like something is interrupting your sleep, a nocturnal EEG would help clarify. If you share a bed with someone ask them if you snore or wake up gasping (sleap apnea) or if you kick in your sleep (restless leg syndrome)

[rawlight]

Do you have this kind of fatigue on the weekends or on holidays?

[Veronica01]

Hmm well i have gotten to the point where I can lay on my back and sleep the entire night without waking up. When I'm stressed i "fall out of sleep" but that hasn't happened for a long time now. I sleep in a completely black room, on my back under lots of covers and always have very long dreams, so I know I'm not waking up, and I don't even move during sleep. As for snoring, i was told it's only sometimes if i look really asleep.

And no I am never exhausted on weekends and don't have trouble staying awake. The only time it might be a problem is if i am driving longer than an hour it makes me tired.

[Stephen28]

I've been having the opposite problem. I'm usually a night owl and do all my work at night. However, it's 9pm and I'm fighting the urge to sleep. I've been going to bed early, and waking up at 6am bright and fresh and energetic. I work hard during the day now and then want to sleep early again. It's very strange and is stopping me doing all of my late night work!!!

[sak12344]

I can empathize with you. At almost 40 years old, I've always been a night owl. I'm just not tired at 9:00pm when I should be falling asleep. I'm tired at 5:00am when I need to be getting up for work (my shift if from 6:30 - 3:00pm). Some days I can hit the snooze bar for 30 minutes. Other days I'd like to throw the clock into the wall. :) Did I mention that I am NOT a morning person...? :rolleyes: I set THREE alarm clocks. One with a double alarm feature next to my bed. And a travel alarm clock that sits on a dresser on the other side of the room. I've often gotten up, walked across the room, shut off the travel clock, crawled back into bed, and woke up an hour later having no recollection of ever getting up to shut the thing off.

You are not alone. :)

[Veronica01]

I'm definitely not a morning person, if i could i would sleep from midnight to 8am every day as i am always tired between those hours, but since i have to be at work for 8 and can't fall asleep before midnight i am tired.

Also I don't snack very often before bed, now that im having raw salad or pasta for dinner with nuts or oil i am totally full up until bed. I used to be starving after eating fish and rice or chicken and veggies. I wonder why.

[Raw To Live]

I don't have any advice to offer but I feel like I could have wrote this myself. I wake up exhausted, today is no different. It's all I can do to stay awake and alert to do my job. Sometimes I feel like I never really wake up. Then, I'll get home still feeling groggy until around 6:00pm or so and then I'm ready to go! It's like that second wind that I'd been waiting for all day FINALLY kicked in! Unfortunately, I'm ready to go back to sleep around 10:00-10:30 0r so. I feel like MY natural time to wake up is around 7:30 or 8:00 but alas I have to be AT work at 7:30. My weekends are no different except that I do get to sleep in until I feel like getting up. Sadly, I've wasted weekends by going back to bed and sleeping until the afternoon because I've been so tired. :(

I sleep in a black, cool room with slight white noise so I'm good there.

I've been drinking green smoothies for over a year and was 100% raw for about a month. I was so excited to read about all the energy people found after converting to raw foods but I never found it. :( My husband did great, requiring less sleep but not me.

Just wanted to say, I understand and I'm interested in what others have to say.

[juliebove]

I just found out that I have sleep apnea. I never would have known. I stop breathing every 4 minutes when I am sleeping! I started using a Cpap machine and that really helps.

A thyroid condition is another thing that comes to mind. So does anemia. At any rate, you need to mention this to your Dr.

[Veronica01]

Raw To Live - That's how I feel, the second i don't have to sit at work i am wide awake and have all this energy, but last night again I wasn't tired even at 11 when i went to bed. So I sat up and did some reiki for a bit until i felt groggy. I find that hels because sometimes i can pass out when I'm doing it, but i have to be sitting up, i can't seem to concentrate when im lying down i get distracted? lol I really don't think i have sleep apnea or anemia. My sister is a "conventional doctor" but she's really against natural remedies and such. I had to twist her arm to let me do reiki and reflexology on me before she believed it worked. She does research for asthma medication too, so the FDA is like her best friend. She's terrified of anything that doesn't comply to their rules, when i'm the opposite. I don't touch OTC or prescription drugs anymore. I don't want to beg to go through all those tests because no one really believes that it's a problem. It's just more annoying i'd say and i panic my boss would be upset because i work slow when i'm like that.

[kaybee]

hey veronica--im not sure whether my advice will be relevant, as it sounds like youve been like this your whole life(?) but the fact that you are fine on weekends or when you DONT have to be at work sounds vaguely similar to problems i was having with brain fog for the last 3 years. it was debilitating--like i couldnt think clearly, every day, almost without fail, since about an hour after i woke in the morning until about 3 EVERY afternoon. after 3 i was fine and had intense clarity about things. i went to a holistic dr who tried to put me on thyroid meds, which i refused, since i told him i wanted to be treated in a way that would heal my body, not in a way that would make me forever dependent upon drugs or animal by products, and natural hrt, which i refused to go on because i didnt percieve any problems with my female hormones. i continued to try to treat it as a thyroid problem but even iodine supps and herbal (non glandular) supps for thyroid didnt help me. it didnt matter what country i was in, where i was living etc etc etc what i ate, etc, NOTHING seemed to improve the condition. a friend who is a social worker/therapist and is trained to do biofeedback training did a basic brain scan on me and found that part of my brain that should be awake was actually sleeping during the day. now, my point is that the ONLY thing that really improved my symptoms and finally made them go away was that i finally struggled through getting my thesis and was able to get my thesis defense finished. this was what had been ruling my life for several years, and i had had a very difficult process of turning in material that got repeatedly rejected, etc and having to rework it. so my whole life was revolving around this thesis and i hated it because i couldnt seem to get the darned thing to completion. i noticed that when i would finally get something out of the way in regards to the degree, the condition would improve (i.e. passed latin exam, got final copies in etc etc etc). So i seriously think the stress of the thesis and the fact that I no longer wanted to work on it because i no longer felt able to submit whatever it was they REALLY wanted, seriously contributed to my brain fog thing. it wasnt the only factor, but i think it was a serious factor....so....my question: do you LIKE your job? do you like what youre doing? if not, is this problem serious enough for you to warrant you seeking out another job that you might like better? i dont know, its just that this might be an area worth looking at... its not an option for many of us, but i offer it just becuase i know that what i was doing (unhappily) with my life at the time was a huge contributor to how i was feeling. I KNEW this too..i knew this was the case but i didnt want to drop the degree after having already poured an additional previous 3 years of my life into it.

it MIGHT be worth looking into biofeedback training if you can afford it. using these sticky connector things they stick to your head (no you dont have to cut your hair or anything), an image of your brain waves for different regions appears on the screen and can be sort of compared to what is "normal" activity for most people for that region. treatment with biofeedback entails doing these "games" on a screen while hooked to the electrodes. sounds scary but its not and its not invasive or anything. apparently its like some kind of training or conditioning and it can help you "retrain your brain"

ALSO, i went to a second doctor, actually a few of them together, naturopaths. they said my thyroid was lower functioning, though not hypothyroid, but the bigger recognition was that my ADRENALS were way overtaxed, along with me having poor nutrient absorption. they put me on herbs and supplements that support the adrenals and thyroid, and i think the adrenal stuff--specifically siberian ginseng--helped. they recommended a sleep study but i was about to leave the country and didnt have medical coverage anyway. i still think this would be a good idea for me if i were in a position to do it though.

so i would look into thyroid and adrenal stuff, and maybe a sleep study if you can. that makes it really tricky to have a sister whos a conventional dr. though; i can see how you might be perceived as "making a big deal out of nothing," but if its affecting your life then it IS a big deal for you...
good luck
kaybee

[rawlight]

So i seriously think the stress of the thesis and the fact that I no longer wanted to work on it because i no longer felt able to submit whatever it was they REALLY wanted, seriously contributed to my brain fog thing. it wasnt the only factor, but i think it was a serious factor....so....my question: do you LIKE your job? do you like what youre doing? if not, is this problem serious enough for you to warrant you seeking out another job that you might like better? i dont know, its just that this might be an area worth looking at... its not an option for many of us, but i offer it just becuase i know that what i was doing (unhappily) with my life at the time was a huge contributor to how i was feeling. I KNEW this too..i knew this was the case but i didnt want to drop the degree after having already poured an additional previous 3 years of my life into it.

This is what I as getting at....!

(by the way congrats on completing your thesis, that is such an accomplishment)

[kaybee]

thanks rawlight. SO GLAD TO BE FINALLY DONE WITH THE DARNED THING!! every day now i find myself with more and more energy..i cant believe its finally "off my plate."...still hasnt really sunk in. may have more grad school to go, but nothing can be as bad as the process i just endured. that was like the mother of all bad thesis experiences :)

[Veronica01]

Hi Kaybee,

Thank you for taking the time to tell me your story. I appreciate it. You are right about the work/school thing. If I am not engaged and my brain is not entertained by the concentration it litterally falls asleep. When I'm sitting here plunking away at numbers and pulling up screen after screen of the same thing i almost pass out. When I was in class staring at the bored or reading from a book all class i didn't like i would almost pass out. My friends sometimes had to hit me before the teacher saw. When I am procrastinating and surfing the web, like i am now, at work, I am awake and do not pass out.
When i'm driving accross flat country with nothing to look at but snow or grass for as far as the eye can see i get extremely tired and almost pass out. I don't feel like I have ADD, where I'm figiting and constantly need to be entertained, but my mind gets very bored very easilly. The best solution I've found when I have to sit and get something done fast, is i listen to music in the background to keep myself entertained, or i get distracted and want to surf, or get up and walk around, if i don't i can get very tired.

I have honestly been thinking about what I can do to not fall asleep at work.. i did want to be a massage therapist but if i stand still for very long and it's quiet again i can pass out. I am thinking maybe after i get some more energy after detoxing i will work out a lot and see if i could handle doing intense training. Maybe I should do something physical like personal training where i am engaged and moving all day. A few years ago i was in sales and always standing, and then i went to mixed sales and admin and it was half and half and now im in marketing and sales and it's all sitting. So it's gotten the hardest. The thing is, I am paying off a huge amount of student loans for a program i mistakenly signed up for in university so I have a few years before i can save up again to go to school. I wish I knew what else I could do that was not sitting and still get paid $20/hour to start. Not likely.

Now I am not sure what that means. Sometimes when I am concentrating i breath really shallow and have to remember to take deep breaths or i notice my heart rate lowering.

I'm not sure about getting some of those tests. If i told a doctor what I just typed right now they would think i was lazy or crazy or something. But what makes our brain that way that it has to be engaged or it doesn't want to participate. Like I said when I try to lay down at night and be still i get distracted and think about every single thing i need to do tomorrow and i forget i am trying to sleep. Even when I do reiki, i'll get distracted and forget i am supposed to be thinking about bringing energy in and breathing deep. What can you do to make your brain listen to you? Lol

[kaybee]

hahaha. i am SO like that too... i have such a hard time doing stuff/concentrating on stuff that i dont want to do/not interested in/feel isnt benefitting me. id rather sleep. hence our problem for both of us. lol. i dont know how alot of other people do it. i dont know whether some of us just feel such a deep desire to do what nourishes us that we cant seem to tolerated doing other things...or whether we just have motivation problems and are supposed to suck it up and lift ourselves up by the bootstraps and just do it. people think that sounds easy, but i think it is more complicated than that. for me there was a definite physical element involved that was on a deeper level than just that. i couldnt "think myself out of it" and it doesnt sound like you can either. argh. i feel you on the desk job thing. i had a desk job full time one summer--entering magazine subscriptions for a small company...all i did was input addresses. sometimes i got to input addresses from prisoners (it was a religious magazine), and i had to look through their letters to get the addresses, so that was my highpoint of the day because it was always more interesting at least. LOL. i always tried to get those batches to input. rotfl :D ANYWAY, i think i made more trips to the water cooler and the bathroom that summer than i ever have in my life. and whenever anyone left junk food in the kitchen, i was all over it. your little "pleasures" become trips to the water cooler, trips to the bathroom, and trips to the kitchen to see if theres any snacks. hehehe. so yeah, i dont know but i have the same problem. im not stuck in a job i hate at the moment but im actually a bit desperate for work in general. like you i have loans, etc to pay off. no, i dont know where else you could match that starting rate for pay. argh. so frustrating, huh?

maybe dont be so quick to write-off the massage therapist thing.... it would be quiet but you would still be being very active, doing the massage. also, you could probably have music in the background and stuff. heres some crazy advice too, but something else i found helpful to quiet my mind--and the effects havent been long-lasting, but it DID give me a 6 week break, which ive NEVER had before, is that i just went on a 6 week hiking trip in spain, on a planned route, where there are places to stay along the way. the route was very well planned (its a pilgrimage route, camino santiago), and basically you have to get up and start walking every day. whether you want to or not, whether the weather is bad or not, you walk. for 5 or 6 or 10 hours. and you stop worrying about the stuff at home because you know theres nothign you can do about any of it at the moment. oh, you worry for a while, you might analyze and think about stuff for a few hours a day even. and then the next day too, and the next. but there is so much time, that eventually your mind quiets, and/or some new challenge presents itself, and you find yourself dealing with the necessities of life instead of the stuff you are used to worrying about. i know this isnt an option for you right now, and im not sure if there would be something similar to it (probably boundary waters, in minnesota, although there you have to drag all your own food along with you whereas in spain you are traveling through villages), but im mentioning it only because it was a really good break that helped to settle my mind for a while. then of course you come home and things havent always changed, but... anyway, i wouldnt NECESSARILY rule out massage school for fear of falling asleep, unless you really think you would be bored. seems to me that being a massage therapist is pretty active and that you are always using your brain along with your body to find the tightness, etc.

this that you said is really poignant though, it about hits the nail on the head:
But what makes our brain that way that it has to be engaged or it doesn't want to participate.

As for the nightime hyper-brain thing, maybe its worth looking into some relaxation herbs? this site is GREAT for that, with great herb info on the forums: www.susunweed.com

[Veronica01]

I have a hard time investing good time into things that aren't good for me, besides watching tv i guess because that's easy, but i don't like sitting here all day and doing very redundant things that a monkey could do i guess and i don't like doing things that hurt me either. I was never a fan of alcohol and usually drank a bit once or twice a year to pretend to be social and i've never touched cigarettes and drugs scare the crap out of me. There's so many things I have to live with that drive me crazy as it is i don't need more problems. It's really cold and dry in Calgary, so i always have dry skin and lips, dry scalp, oily face, i don't exercise enough because it's freezing outside until summer, so im not the size i want to be. I am trying to change things one at a time right now, first by eating only raw food i want to get rid of my false signals of hunger that have always plagued me, my inability to ever say no to dessert no matter how full i am, and be the size i want to be. I only want to lose about 15 pounds to be in really good shape, but i've lived my whole life like that and for what, so i could eat cake, or have second helpings because i could? I'm also working on connecting with people who have things in common with me, because my two best friends, one of which is my step sister have almost nothing in common with me, and hate doing what im doing and think im very "different" lets say. My boyfriend and I just broke up on sunday and we LIVE together and as soon as i started trying to get a life and find people like me and take care of myself, he got more lazy and set in his ways. He's a tall thin, junkfood eating smoker who doesn't find anything interesting except extreme sports, and while he's nice and i like being around him, he doesn't bring anything that i need into my life so i forced him to make a choice and it wasn't me. Once that is all sorted out I will work on the job thing. I just know I can't change everything all at once, and I want this to give me the confidence to not doubt that I can do whatever I want to do and maybe start my own business or find a way to take classes for an active career. It's like i woke up one day after months of winter and staying home and sitting around and snacking on his junk that he buys and playing video games and watching movies, i just said why am i just existing, why do i just watch everyone else do what they want to do. I want to experience things, and I was so tired all the time even eating the smallest amount of meat, steamed veggies and rice just didn't give me enough energy to want to do anything after work. So i decided to get rid of that because it was holding me back. I just don't have the luxury of walking away from my desk job right now because it bores me lol. I guess that's why i spend so much time surfing and reading, i am trying to figure out what I want and what to do and can never get enough. I too am hoping that with more raw i could sleep more. It's inconvenient having to get 8 hours of sleep every night or being behind in the week and exhausted. I get very unambitious.

[mstrish]

Talk to your doctor about a 4 collection Saliva test for Adrenal function. This will tell you and your doctor your cortisol levels. I use amino acids for am fatigue. L-tyrosine and DLPA are good when I wake up fatigued. To sleep I use L-Tryptophan when my mind races. Hope this helps, Trish:D

[Veronica01]

thank you for your advice. I am pretty clueless to what you just said tho, i know what aminos are but that's about it. lol