Raw Vegans and Honey?

[Stephen28]

I keep seeing people saying they are raw vegans talk about eating honey. As far as I have always been aware, honey is definitely not vegan because of the cruelty behind the honey farming industry. Can somebody shed some light on this please? Thank you.

[nellie]

What someone calls themselves is up to them. Honey isn't vegan but a lot of people who don't eat other animal products may feel honey is ok or they may not feel it is ok. I'm vegan and don't eat honey because I see no reason to eat an animal product. Agave is a good alternative.

If someone is vegan for health, they may look at the health benefits of honey over the fact that it is an animal product and choose to eat it. Other animal products aren't beneficial to your health in any way.

When I first went vegan, I turned a blind eye to honey in certain things like bread. It wasn't that I chose honey but that the options were often honey or dairy so I went with honey.

[RawKnitster]

I have no problem calling myself a vegan just beecause I use honey. In my mind they are an insect, not in the same class as animals. I only buy honey from sources I trust, preferably direct from a beekeeper I know and trust. He has a relationship with the bees, he loves the bees and would never harm them. I would rather do without than buy a commercially produced honey, and would never buy honey produced in another country.

Perhaps there should be another word for vegans like me. Vegetarian doesn't work, most people think that might include eggs and dairy. When I say I'm vegan everyone understands I only eat plant food.

I hope that sheds some light on my point of view. I believe it is shared by many on this forum and elsewhere.

I would like to make another point though. Your question is one I've heard before. I would like to ask you and others who share it....What about leather? How many of the vegans concerned about other vegans using honey are carrying leather purses and wallets, and wearing leather shoes? Even Birkenstocks have leather straps? I should confess I still have all those, but now that I'm vegan will not be buying anymore.

[rawstrength]

Honey bees are necessary to pollinate our crops. 85% of plant food wouldn't exist without the bee industry. If honey is not vegan, then how can you eat food produced by honey bees and call yourself a vegan?
How can you drive a car and crush hundreds of insects and call yourself a vegan?
**********************************************
Personally, I use honey for its taste and health benefits. I get my honey from a local bee keeper who takes incredible care of his bees. His bees are healthy and not abused unlike on some large apiaries where all of the bees' honey is taken and the bees live off of high fructose corn syrup. Honey is only as cruel as the source. And bee products are very healthy. The longest lived people in the world are bee keepers.

Agave is produced by people that I don't know in a place far away from where I live. I would rather get local honey and save the environment from unneccesary shipping while supporting a local farmer.

I call myself a raw beegan!

[MiahTay]

Also, as this IS Alissa Cohen's website and she uses honey in recipes in her cookbook - I'm not going to sweat it. BTW - I don't like to call myself any label.

Blessings,
Heather

[MiahTay]

Oh, and if you don't have Living on Live Food by Alissa Cohen, it is a FANTASTIC resource.

Blessings,
Heather

[RawKnitster]

Honey bees are necessary to pollinate our crops. 85% of plant food wouldn't exist without the bee industry. If honey is not vegan, then how can you eat food produced by honey bees and call yourself a vegan?

I call myself a raw beegan!

I loved all your post, especially the quotes above. I will remember that next time I have to defend my honey loving rights.

[Colorawdo girl]

raw beegan.....tooo fun.I love bees,I love the hunny they give us.....I dont call myself nothing...except mostly I eat raw and living foods..and thats only if someone wants to know.

[Infinitus]

the bees' honey is taken and the bees live off of high fructose corn syrup.

High fructose corn syrup is a cheap and inferior substance. It is not a natural food for bees. Bees need honey, which is why they toil to produce it.

"Why Honey is Not Vegan:"

http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm

[pixie_333]

i consider it abuse.

it's what bee's live for is to make their hive and work for their queen. i feel humans have no right to eat their goods. they have stingers for a reason... it's to protect what is rightfuly theirs, themselves and friends. we all should just be thankful enough for their pollinating and leave it with that, in my opnion rather than being selfish for a taste bud. and these nutrients can be found in other foods. they aren't even native to america. also i've seen only 5bees or less in the past 4 years in ohio and illinois.

let them bee.

[freshlight]

I agree with pixie_333
BUT
I think it's not allowed to talk about honey here: read the forum rules.

[pixie_333]

Honey bees are necessary to pollinate our crops. 85% of plant food wouldn't exist without the bee industry. If honey is not vegan, then how can you eat food produced by honey bees and call yourself a vegan?
How can you drive a car and crush hundreds of insects and call yourself a vegan?
**********************************************


besides what i already shared in my post earlier...

everything in nature works together.

just because worms help the soil for our food to grow doesn't mean we are worm eaters.

just because i plow an area or rake my yard and robin birds flock around waiting for me to leave and hoping to get a worm doesn't mean birds want to eat humans.

the driving and crushing insects..walking even... who can avoid it? there's a differance between deliberatly killing something to mistakeningly. and it's impossiable to not kill insects and eat them. equel exchange if i have you.. we have shit loads of insects on our skin eating off of us.

[selina_k]

maybe i lose raw vegan street cred if i don't object to being served honey or take gelcaps or wear leather shoes (there is not an if, I do those things, but I'm reevaluating the shoe thing for future purchases)

the label is mostly useful explaining what i'm doing to SAD eaters anyway, so they aren't concerned with my misuse of the term. they get that dairy is out and that is the most important thing to get across, in a 'let's grab a bite" context.

i work with people that call themselves vegetarians when what they are are people who don't eat red meat. Fish and chicken are a go.

i just mock them behind their backs. ;)

[klomasius]

Just posted a long reply and somehow deleted it!


Honey is not vegan, regardless if it is an ethical food or not. The man who coined 'vegan' (composed of the first two and last two letters of 'vegetarian') Donald Watson specifically stated that honey is not vegan in the defining sentences. I believe it is located in the third edition of the UK society's newsletter way back in 1944.

I think it's best for people who eat honey to call themselves 'beegan' or some other term to differentiate between honey and non honey eaters.

As for whether it's ethical or not, I'm defintiely on of those who do not think it is and dont eat it. I prefer to leave the bees to have the honey they have worked so hard to make.

Yes, bees pollinate many of the food crops we grow, however there are thousands of species of bees that also do this, and apis mellifera (the common Eaurpoean honey bee we breed en masse just like cows) is outcompeting many of these species of bees (many native) and driving their populations to the brink.

Even if the bees are treated extremely well, they are still having negative effects on other species of wild bees.

We rely too much on one species of bee (itself fragile as their populations are in decline due to a number of diseases and environmental factors) to prop up our fragile food monocultures. This is not a good situation as any fragile system is far more prone to collapse.

This is why biodynamic food production is far better for us and the environment, no sinlge organism relied upon to do a single precarious job.

I do respect the right of everyone to choose whether or not they eat honey. But I urge everyone to think about the consicous use of any kind of animal (insect or not) for the sake of taste or convenience or supposed health benefits.

The spirit of veganism is not to take advantage, to not exploit our fellow creatures and to cultivate a gentle, compasionate way of living. I choose to take a gentle and compassionate approach to this debate as well, I wish you all the best not matter what you choose to do.

[jannahskye]

Is agave nectar raw? In Alissa's book she uses raw honey, but I would prefer to use agave nectar if it is actually raw. Does anyone know?

[pixie_333]

Is agave nectar raw? In Alissa's book she uses raw honey, but I would prefer to use agave nectar if it is actually raw. Does anyone know?


there's both a raw version and a cooked one.

[RawKnitster]

Vegan isn't even in my Webster's. I'm not calling myself a beegan. Vegans, make some room. We are here to stay.

[bowie]

do us all a favor and type in a search for something like "is honey vegan" or just "honey" and read up on the many discussions we've had on the subject. Alissa doesn't want huge honey debates and so we're not going to debate honey here, it's accepted here whether it's vegan or not or whether people here accept it or not.