The Protein Myth

[Erika]

Okay Okay, I know it's been like forever since I've been here to visit and I've missed all of you guys terribly but it was mainly due to school. Now that school is out and next semester is light I'll try to come back more often. Now that I've said that...

I have been debating with some people at work. It started with this girl that had started to work out got herself a personal trainer lol. She is talking all about her protein this and protein that. I told her that she doesn't need all of that protein and she doesn't want to listen to my raw food talk, she calls it "crap". I tried to explain that if you get enough amino acids from fresh fruits and veggies then you don't need to eat the protein, not even from nuts and seeds. She still said that I was wrong. This kind of ended in a yelling match lol. I didn't want to get physical with her so I dropped it. I thought that my friend would help me because he's a chemistry major and happens to be the chef where I work but even he said that I was wrong. He said that the protein and the amino acids don't work the same and you need both. I said "okay wise ass, tell me how Tim Van Orden can do it then". He said that he must be cheating because you will die without eating protein of some sort like almonds or something. I really want to prove my case but I don't know where to look. Can anyone identify with my feelings here? Can anyone help me to prove my case? This is driving me crazy!

Thank you guys for listening to me rant...

[RawSar]

Ya I'm curious too what people here will say about this. Something I always get confused about this esp. when arguing with friends about it lol! Somehow they always convince me that I am wrong and they are right :o
I do take master amino pills and lots of chlorella and spirulina because I worry that I don't get enough protein from fruits,veggies and nuts and seeds.

[Dimond]

Article and a great example of a raw bodybuilder with photo examples:
http://defiant-health.com/so-where-do-you-get-your-protein

She can kick the girl's butt for you. ;)

Another raw bodybuilder Mentions this very argument on home page:
http://www.charliesgym.info

Doctor:
http://www.naturodoc.com/library/nutrition/protein.htm

[Erika]

I would really like to see some photos of these raw athletes for myself. I'm familiar with running raw Tim van Orden and I love watching his videos but to see an Olympic athlete, now that would be awesome or even a raw body builder. Photos are hard to find. That information was pretty good. Of course I know that chemistry guy is going to want more than that. So the more the merrier... keep it coming ladies lol great work so far though, thanks so much, I really mean it.

[michigan roman]

ive been a vegan 15 years , raw 3 , athletic entire life .
and ive read alot on veganism / raw , and ive always
worked out . and ive arrived at the opinion that to keep
good sized muscle on we need proteins from nuts / seeds ,
plus good fats like avacado .

and its my opinion that because in my guesstimation more
women are raw vegan than men , and that alot of them
want to be thin the attitude that theres a protein myth
and that you really dont need alot of protein came about .
these said women arent worried about solid muscle mass
but rather about being thin so their logic gets clouded .
im sure that'll get me yelled at .. :p

yes you can get enough nutrients from mostly fruit / vegi ,
but i say long term that diet isnt gonna make for a real
sturdy solid body type . and that growing babies / kids and people
that want more muscular bodies need nuts and seeds .

im not saying im the smartest and i know thats correct ,
its just my observation and own experience .

[Revvell]

I was a meat-eating bodybuilder for 3 years. I was BIG but not cut. When I went vegan, I dropped all the fat and added about 15 pounds of muscles. I was cut to the point of guys asking me to partner with then in contests. Even my training partner, who didn't know me as a meat eater, was amazed at how I was built and said "Imagine what you could do if you ate meat protein!" I didn't have to imagine, I knew.

Read "The China Study"... best book around. Check out Alissa's photos and Dr. Doug Graham's My Space videos.

My question for you is ~ why do you have to prove yourself right by arguing to the point of wanting to commit violence?

Revvell (http://www.Revvellations.com/shopping)

[souldanzer]

Never mind, don't want to start a discussion...
Souldanzer

[Ilse W.]

It's really quite simple (in a nutshell for beginners from a beginner). The proteins we eat, whether from vegetable or animal sources, cannot be used by the body without being broken down into amino acids. So to say that your body needs protein is theoretically wrong. Your body needs and uses amino acids. There are a number of different amino acids (I can't remember the number, but it was somewhere in the 14-18 range). Not every protein from every food contains the same number and types of amino acids. Our bodies can manufacture the proteins WE need from the amino acids we get, and also reuse some we already have stored. It sort of redigests stuff inside the body all the time (reuse/recycle, what a body). There are just a few amino acids the body can't manufacture from others. Those are called the "essential amino acids". We HAVE to get them from our food. Because animal protein contains those few, some people claim that it is necessary for us to eat meat. Not so! All we have to do is eat a variety of vegetable matter, and we will get all the amino acids necessary for our own little protein manufacturing plant. And it's not necessary to get them all in one meal. We have sort of a storage warehouse of amino acids in our body, where the necessary supply is kept for future use. So keep eating lots of greens along with your fruit, and you'll be healthy! Remember: all fruits and vegetables contain (at least some) protein. The next time somebody tells you that you can't get your protein from vegetables, say: Really? Where does a cow get all the protein to turn out all that protein laden milk and meat?
Hope this makes sense and helps.:)

[freshlight]

what an answer! You are a genius, dear Emma! :) ((((hugs))))

[RawSar]

Anyone here ever tried the SunWarrior rice protein powder?

[Inca_faerie]

ive been a vegan 15 years , raw 3 , athletic entire life .
and ive read alot on veganism / raw , and ive always
worked out . and ive arrived at the opinion that to keep
good sized muscle on we need proteins from nuts / seeds ,
plus good fats like avacado .

and its my opinion that because in my guesstimation more
women are raw vegan than men , and that alot of them
want to be thin the attitude that theres a protein myth
and that you really dont need alot of protein came about .
these said women arent worried about solid muscle mass
but rather about being thin so their logic gets clouded .
im sure that'll get me yelled at .. :p

yes you can get enough nutrients from mostly fruit / vegi ,
but i say long term that diet isnt gonna make for a real
sturdy solid body type . and that growing babies / kids and people
that want more muscular bodies need nuts and seeds .

im not saying im the smartest and i know thats correct ,
its just my observation and own experience .

I agree with you 1000%. We DO need protein (at least I do) just not as much as is dictated by "mainstream" nutritionists. I felt and looked awful (tired, muscle cramps, hair falling out) till I increased my protein intake to 40-50 grams a day. In my opinion the idea that we need protein is not a myth. The idea that we need excessive amounts of protien is the real myth.

[Ilse W.]

Thank you, Eva. I'd love to teach this stuff. I get excited and feel pationate about it. LOL.

[jurence]

Sorry to butt in and seem rude, but why is he a chef and a chemistry major? What are you guys cookin? ^_-

edit: and 40-50 is pretty standard. For hardcore bodybuilders it is 1g/pound of body weight

[Erika]

okay to answer why I got mad enough to want to hit this girl... oh man, this wasn't the first thing she has done to me. I work on all of her shifts and she is constantly doing something to TICK me off. We'll leave it at that. I am not a violent person and I'm not going to really fight her, I'm going to obviously walk away but I love to laugh at her in my head at her ignorance. We are waitresses and she has done things to me to cost me hundreds of dollars in tips, trust me on that.

The other guy, he's just a college student. All of our cooks are real chefs, not just cooks. I don't know where he got his training or anything like that I don't care. I just know that he's supposed to be in college working toward being a chemical engineer. I really seems to know a lot about chemistry so I don't question his schooling, he's pretty smart.

I don't even really care anymore about proving this to them to be honest. It would take some pretty hardcore evidence to prove it to him and the girl, well screw her. I don't mean to be nasty and I love to spread the word of eating healthy but I'm not going to help her anymore. If she's happy going to her trainer that's going to pack her full of 130 grams of chicken and beef protein then by all means, let her eat it. I know that I'm not going to eat it and that's all that matters in the end.

There is something in each one of your posts that I have agreed with and I know that eating raw makes me feel better and that's the most important thing.

[Defiance]

Hi Erika,

This is Christy from Defiant Health. Thanks so much, GilmoreGirl, for the nice comments! It means a lot to me to be able to help people!

Good for you for standing up for yourself and trying to educate those around you. Some people just won't listen. There is none so blind as those who will not see. Don't be confrontational, or they will completely shut down and won't listen at all. Remember, living well is the best revenge. Be an example to them. Go about your healthy raw lifestyle and let them see how radiant, healthy, and beautiful you are. They will eventually want what you have.

Very few people challenge me on the protein thing now, simply because I am usually much more fit and muscular than they are. I walk the talk, and they know it. You can do the same! Be a light to the dark SAD world!

You DO need adequate protein, especially to build beautiful muscle tone. Greens and fruits provide a lot, and I am also a big fan of spirulina. Actually I am addicted to it! :D I did eat a lot of nuts, but have found that I need to cut back because my face breaks out big time when I have too many nuts. I still eat them, just not in huge quantities like I used to. Plus I am leaner on fewer nuts. Seeds don't seem to bother me. Each of us is different, and you have to find what works for you.

I do use and highly recommend the Sun Warrior Proteins (http://store.sunwarrior.com/?Click=1268), and I serve it to all my clients in my Living Well Cafe for their optimal post-workout nutritional smoothies. I am even getting people hooked on Green Smoothies! The Sun Warrior mixes beautifully with the greens.

Emma, Inca faerie, and Revvell all had excellent points. Just stick to your guns, do what you know is right for your body, and you will win! There is no victory without a challenge!

Wishing you a blessed and healthy 2009!

[cara4art]

Hi Christy!

You're an inspiration to all - and with a great attitude - I checked out your website too!
I've had a fairly long fitness history myself, and like many weight trainees in my earlier years, I did the whole increased animal protein thing and that's one of the reasons I backed out of going competitive because at the time, my trainer wanted me to eat a whole lot more animal protein than I could even imagine eating. Instinctively I backed away from that knowing that I would not feel my best. Anyway, that was many years ago now, and I do the whole gym thing for general health and fitness, not going for competition. However, I am interested in having an incredible body so that still involves muscle mass, especially important since I am 61! Anyhow, I have found that since I've been raw, after the initial transition of feeling tired and weaker at the gym for a few weeks, the benefits started kicking in. I became an instant fan of green smoothies and I can't think of a better food for athletes than these, especially powered up with the right stuff. I got into hemp protein pretty early on, but personally I noticed a big difference in strength and endurance when I added chia seeds to my green smoothies, which I consider to be the most amazing elixirs ever. Over the last few months, and with technically fewer grams of protein than what supposedly a weight-trainee needs, I have put on new muscle, and also some more definition is coming in, all impressive so that's proof that one can get into shape at any age. I attribute my progress to the fact that my body is getting what it needs from the easily assimilable stuff in the green smoothies. Actually, that's not all I eat - there's plenty of other food like raw veggie wraps, salads, dips, raw crackers, etc.
I totally agree with you - be defiant! Because there are all kinds of people in our culture who for some reason think it's such a radical idea to eat foods ONLY in their raw, unrefined form while they don't bat an eyelash about eating something that's processed and comes in a box!

[Erika]

Thank you Christy, you're an inspiration and let me add that you're body is amazing!

well I know that you guys and ladies here understand me like no one else can and that's why I chose to come here to vent my frustrations in the first place.

I didn't really mean that you don't need protein, I just mean that you can get protein from raw sources, and you can get protein from fruits and veggies. You don't have to really eat nuts and seeds. Sure nuts and seeds are probably beneficial to most of us to some degree but they aren't really life or death when it comes down to it. That was my main point in my argument. Fruits and veggies are loaded with amino acids and still have some proteins too. I know this, it's just that some other people are raised to believe that only meat has protein. That's okay. I'll live by example and I'm okay with that. You know even with myself, my diet does consist of nuts to supplement a higher amount of protein because it makes me feel better. I'm a very active person and I can't get by with such little calories. Like you said each person is different.

So I guess my point wasn't really trying to prove that you don't need protein so much as it was trying to prove that you don't need nuts and seeds, meat, milk, cheese etc. And that a person can SURVIVE on RAW veggies and fruits alone. Because even if they consume nothing more than raw veggies and fruits they will still consume some amount of protein. Does that makes sense?

Thank you all for you input, it has meant so much to me. Keep it coming if you have more to share. I'm also wishing you all health in the new year as well.


OH MY GOODNESS CARA, I just went and looked at your myspace page and saw your photos and I'm blown away. I mean it's one thing to have a nice body and things like that but honey, you can't possibly be 61, you look like you're in your early 40's. You're beautiful. I just wanted you to know that.

[Defiance]

OK--Mutual Admiration society! You guys are awesome too. I totally agree with you, Erika---Cara you are amazing! You are beautiful and your incredible art shows how beautiful you are on the inside as well.

You are absolutely right, Erika. Raw fruits and veggies have plenty of protein, especially for the average person. They have anywhere from 4-12% protein, and mother's milk has about 6-7%, I believe, (don't have that stat right in front of me but I have seen it in many articles). And nobody needs protein as much as a nursing, growing infant. So you don't need 30% or more of your diet from protein, if a growing baby doesn't.

I was on a high-protein diet for 15 years, on advice of doctors because of my blood sugar issues. I looked good, on the outside, but I paid a high price in sickness, tumors, and surgery. Since I went raw, the blood sugar issues have just disappeared, along with a host of other pains and illnesses. I also had a tonsil that was massively swollen for over 30 years, and that completely dissolved, opening up my throat that had been 50% blocked for so long I can't remember being any other way. It is so frustrating when you think you are doing the right thing, especially on the advice of allopathic physicians. Many of your acquaintances are in the same place I was, and they can't yet wrap their heads around the fact that all the conventional doctors, all the 'nutritional facts' from the FDA etc, and all the marketing they see are wrong. They can't see how you are right when all of these so-called 'experts' are saying that "meat is good, eat more meat, get more protein, drink your milk, eat your cheese, melamine isn't dangerous, BPA is OK, vitamins don't work, etc, etc". Have compassion for them, for they are still victims of our horribly flawed health care system. Love is the answer! Be their light at the end of the SAD tunnel.

You don't need nuts. I just, however, love them about as much as your average hungry squirrel! :D I could eat them all day long, every day, all kinds, and never get tired of them. But they don't like me as much. :( Unrequited love.

My parents have several big pecan trees on their farm--some are over 100 years old. And we had a bumper crop this year. We had over 100 lbs shelled just from one picking. And so from Thanksgiving to Christmas I made so many awesome raw recipes from these incredible fresh, lovely pecans: Pumpkin rolls, Apple Cobbler, Pecan Spice Cookies, Pecan pie, Sweet Potato Pie, pecan everything. We were in heaven. However, my fading abs and my facial skin showed it pretty quickly. :( I am doing a green smoothie cleanse starting tomorrow, and have eaten no nuts since the day after Christmas.

I did get in my black-eyed peas and collards today and stayed raw. I made black-eyed pea pate (or hummus, I guess) and rolled it in to the collard greens, which came fresh from my dear friend's garden. I just blended the sprouted peas, onion, garlic, lime juice, apple cider vinegar, Herbamare sea salt, and celery in a food processor. Yum! Hopefully that will still bring good luck and money in 2009! LOL!

Blessings, love, and light,

[Erika]

Wow that new years food you were talking about actually sounded really good. I know that I eat raw and everything but I have to sadly really sadly admit that when it comes to the holidays I don't eat raw because none of my and I mean none of my family does and when it comes to cooking for a huge family I already have so much going on that I go ahead and just eat with them on those days. So Thanksgiving day, Christmas day and new years day is a cooked meal for me. I don't stuff myself like many SAD diet americans do but I do sit down and eat with the family. I mean after I cooked it, I'm damn sure going to eat it lol. I pack the rest up and send it home with them and leave a little in the fridge for my man. The next day I go back to my raw diet. It's not so bad, but I would totally try out your little thing that you made if I didn't have to make all of this other stuff that I already make.

[Defiance]

I TOTALLY understand. I did the same thing on Christmas and Thanksgiving. I decided that family harmony and not hurting my mother's feelings was more important than one cooked meal. My family owns a beef cattle farm, for crying out loud! So I am seriously the black sheep of the family. Definitely no raw vegans anywhere to be found. My husband and I were home for New Year's so it was not a problem.

I am so lucky. My husband is awesomely supportive and loves most of the raw things I make. If I make it and put it in front of him, he will eat it. Left to his own devices, he will eat chicken or fish, so I just make sure that we have the highest quality organic meats available for him.

Definitely don't beat yourself up over a couple of meals. Your family is important, too. Don't you feel so much better when you get back to raw, though? I do. I look forward to a luscious green smoothie after eating the SAD cooked food.

[cara4art]

Waves to Erika and Christy here - thanks for the compliments! This makes my day and gives me MORE reinforcement for this path. Christy's comment about the art reflecting inner beauty touched my heart too. You see, I work very privately and not that many people in real life even see my art, although I have gone through periods where I have sold quite a bit. Now I'm in a very private period of reassessment on so many fronts and loving peace and quiet, even in the midst of a large city. Raw really helps too. The holidays, even though we didn't have family around were not the greatest for me in terms of food, but I intend to correct that by getting back into my raw routine and workouts - personally I NEED to exercise, and hard, 5 days out of 7 to feel my best and to look it too.
Christy, interesting that raw fixed your blood sugar issues - that is so encouraging to hear, because nearly 3 months ago I had a finger-prick blood test at a health van and they said I was "pre-diabetic" with a reading of 105 instead of the normal sugar reading of being under 100. I was also found to have high cholesterol at 220 which is a full 60 points over what I had prior to menopause. I never had blood sugar problems prior to menopause either. I hadn't had any readings for many years though, so it is quite possible that my readings might have been WORSE prior to going predominantly raw back last February, or maybe it takes a long time for sugar and cholesterol issues to improve on raw when one is my age? Anyhow, in doing the internet research, it seems that the mainstream medical people want diabetics and pre-diabetics to eat lots of protein at each meal, and not even much fruit at all. The latter would be really, really hard for me to give up, as that is nearly half my diet! However, I AM on a Chinese herbal formula that addresses menopause, blood sugar and cholesterol that is easy to take and has none of the bad side effects that Western drugs have. When I had that test, the default recommendation was "lose weight and increase physical activity" they didn't know that I'm already at the gym solidly and on a pretty clean diet.
I would love to see the protein myth dispelled in the blood sugar wars too, as well as the fitness arena.

[Defiance]

Waves to Erika and Christy here - thanks for the compliments! This makes my day and gives me MORE reinforcement for this path. Christy's comment about the art reflecting inner beauty touched my heart too. You see, I work very privately and not that many people in real life even see my art, although I have gone through periods where I have sold quite a bit. Now I'm in a very private period of reassessment on so many fronts and loving peace and quiet, even in the midst of a large city. Raw really helps too. The holidays, even though we didn't have family around were not the greatest for me in terms of food, but I intend to correct that by getting back into my raw routine and workouts - personally I NEED to exercise, and hard, 5 days out of 7 to feel my best and to look it too.
Christy, interesting that raw fixed your blood sugar issues - that is so encouraging to hear, because nearly 3 months ago I had a finger-prick blood test at a health van and they said I was "pre-diabetic" with a reading of 105 instead of the normal sugar reading of being under 100. I was also found to have high cholesterol at 220 which is a full 60 points over what I had prior to menopause. I never had blood sugar problems prior to menopause either. I hadn't had any readings for many years though, so it is quite possible that my readings might have been WORSE prior to going predominantly raw back last February, or maybe it takes a long time for sugar and cholesterol issues to improve on raw when one is my age? Anyhow, in doing the internet research, it seems that the mainstream medical people want diabetics and pre-diabetics to eat lots of protein at each meal, and not even much fruit at all. The latter would be really, really hard for me to give up, as that is nearly half my diet! However, I AM on a Chinese herbal formula that addresses menopause, blood sugar and cholesterol that is easy to take and has none of the bad side effects that Western drugs have. When I had that test, the default recommendation was "lose weight and increase physical activity" they didn't know that I'm already at the gym solidly and on a pretty clean diet.
I would love to see the protein myth dispelled in the blood sugar wars too, as well as the fitness arena.



Cara, check out this movie:

Reversing Diabetes in 30 Days (http://www.1shoppingcart.com/app/?af=898483)

My father in law is an insulin-dependent diabletic, but his diet is awful. He takes too much insulin, crashes, then grabs Oreos or chocolate glazed doughnuts to bring it back up, then has to take more insulin...........

When they came to stay at my house this fall, as long as he ate my food, he did NOT have to take an insulin shot for the 5 days he was here. (and I made things like raw Black Bottom Pecan Pie Cheesecake :-)) He did have to take shots when we ate out a couple of times. He saw the light!!!! Thank the Lord, he is eating way more raw. I made him green smoothies every morning and force fed him until he gave in and admitted he liked them!:cool:

105 is an OK reading. I think 115 to 120 is pre-diabetic, according to what my FIL says. When his is below 110, he is thrilled. You are doing just fine. Keep it up and you will just keep getting better. I was hypoglycemic and kept crashing badly. Now I never crash, even if I don't eat all day. That RAWks!!!

[cara4art]

"105 is an OK reading. I think 115 to 120 is pre-diabetic, according to what my FIL says. When his is below 110, he is thrilled. You are doing just fine. Keep it up and you will just keep getting better. I was hypoglycemic and kept crashing badly. Now I never crash, even if I don't eat all day. That RAWks!!!"

Waves again to Christy! You are awesome and such an encouraging help! I should clarify that my reading was a fasting reading - is my reading still OK as you say? Somewhere else I was reading that the cut-off between normal and pre-diabetic was 100. It used to be 110 and even longer a time ago 125, but they keep lowering the normal reading, and then I was reading that actually a fasting normal should be no more than 75 or 80 to be considered low enough.
That is so cool that your dad was able to do without his insulin on your raw food! I'm aware of the Reversing Diabetes in 30 Days DVD too.
When I was doing research on websites about pre-diabetes, they pretty much all seemed to think that it was dire and just like having full-blown diabetes and as I said before, either recommending tons of protein, or on the other hand, starchy carbs - yikes! Also those same websites assume that everyone who is pre-diabetic is overweight and inactive, and I'm neither, as I've mentioned. However, I've seen statistics that say that one out of every 5 full-blown diabetics is slim. I am so not going there, to full-blown diabetes - no way!
Thanks so much for the encouragement, especially since you have a full-blown diabetic in your family and you've had your own blood sugar challenges!
Oh, and my mouth is watering at the thought of your Black Bottom Pecan Pie Cheesecake!

[Defiance]

"Somewhere else I was reading that the cut-off between normal and pre-diabetic was 100. It used to be 110 and even longer a time ago 125, but they keep lowering the normal reading, and then I was reading that actually a fasting normal should be no more than 75 or 80 to be considered low enough.

Oh, and my mouth is watering at the thought of your Black Bottom Pecan Pie Cheesecake!


Hi Cara!

Yeah, and "They" keep lowering cholesterol numbers too. Makes for a lot more people to prescribe dangerous drugs to! That's an easy way to get new drug users----keep changing the 'normal' level of something to way below anything that you will ever find in nature, even in the healthiest person. And then, voila......Ooops! You need drugs! I had a client Friday say that his doctors wanted his total cholesterol at 80! Yikes! Do they not realize the vital role that cholesterol plays in cell structure, hormones and brain function? I found that appalling.


See this awesome article by Dr. Ron Rosedale (http://www.biblelife.org/rosedale.htm) for more info on insulin, specifically insuline resistance, and also the book Fight For Your Health. Dr. Rosedale is a true expert on the subject of diabetes--absolutely tremendous! You can also find his interview on www.Mercola.com, which is where I first heard him. He blew me away! Absolutely common sense, medically-based information from a completely different perspective.

I need to write up that recipe for the Black Bottom Pecan Pie Cheesecake. I made it up because I saw the original SAD recipe in Southern Living and it sounded so good that I had to figure out how to make it raw. My first try turned out awesome! I will do that and post it on my website for you when I get a chance.

You're doing great!

[cara4art]

Hi christy!

"Yeah, and "They" keep lowering cholesterol numbers too. Makes for a lot more people to prescribe dangerous drugs to! That's an easy way to get new drug users----keep changing the 'normal' level of something to way below anything that you will ever find in nature, even in the healthiest person. And then, voila......Ooops! You need drugs! I had a client Friday say that his doctors wanted his total cholesterol at 80! Yikes! Do they not realize the vital role that cholesterol plays in cell structure, hormones and brain function? I found that appalling."

Again, thanks for the serious encouragement! You are so-o helpful and supportive and I'm sure I'm not the only one who is glad to see someone seriously fitness-oriented and who has had blood sugar issues on the board!
I was just reading the other day that, say, 25 years ago doctors didn't consider cholesterol to be a problem unless someone had a total cholesterol reading of over 240. Then it was lowered to 220, and a few years ago, it was lowered to 200, and recently, down to 180. You're right, it's a great way to frighten people into taking stuff like Lipitor, etc. Not this gal, or my husband either(he's on red yeast rice and fish oil supps for his). Believe it or not, about 18 years ago when I had my cholesterol tested and it was 168, the practitioner thought that was high and wanted me to LOWER it further. I basically said thanks, but no thanks and walked out of that health van. I hadn't had it measured at all until 3 months ago, and it came out 220 and as I mentioned, I'm past menopause. Over on some other menopause sites, there are perfectly active, healthy eating women who are shocked to discover that despite their clean habits, their cholesterol went up sharply and they got sugar problems as well.
Anyhow, back to the protein thing. Over on some other sites, they say high-protein, and to hear them talk, you would think that fruit is the work of the devil. How could a perfectly wholesome, unadulterated food be THAT bad? What's a raw-fooder with blood sugar issues to do if fruit is an important part of the raw food diet and has lots of vitamins, etc. I already do my powered-up(hemp protein+chia seeds)green smoothies and eat a good bit of veggies, avocadoes, seeds and nuts(the latter two in smaller quantities though), plus I'm on that Chinese formula. Personally, I refuse to be scared into medications I don't need! Your credo - Be Defiant! - is so apt!
I just read that article that was linked - awesome, and stuff that so many people don't know!

[Defiance]

Hi Cara,

I eat a ton of fruit. Probably close to a bunch of bananas a day, plus mangos, apples, pears, peaches, cherries, strawberries, blueberries, pineapple, etc. etc. Mostly I eat it in green smoothies, so the sugar is being balanced by the alkaline greens. I don't find that it causes any blood sugar issues at all. Victoria Boutenko advises green smoothies for diabetics and has many testimonials from diabetics who reversed their diabetes, including her son.

But for someone else it may be a problem. Dr. Rosedale advocates keeping the fruit low. As the saying goes, 'one man's panacea is another man's poison.' Each person has to determine what works for their own body.

I agree with you. Fruit is not 'evil' and the sugars are totally natural and great fuel for the body. When I was on the atkins-type diet, I missed fruit so much. I feel like I get to eat dessert all the time now with the luscious sweet fruits. I am rather militant about the fruits being organic. I am lucky because my parents have a small orchard with apples, pears, and several types of peaches---awesome! If fruits do cause a problem, I would suspect maybe there are pesticides or other chemicals on them, or that they are nutritionally-void conventionally farmed GMO and not natural.

There are several schools of thought that advocate fruit as the ideal food for humans, and it is the main part of the diet. 80-10-10 is an example. I have done a fruit cleanse from Frederic Patenaude and did very well on it.

Hey, do you soak your Chias first, or just toss them in your GS?

Hugs,

Christy

[cara4art]

Wow - such great encouragement, again - you're a true gem! I hope other people are listening here too on this thread. It is so great to hear someone say that eating fruit is OK even with blood sugar issues and not to just load up on a bunch of protein or have to just eat veggies and water for the rest of my life - LOL! Many years ago, I did Atkins too, and I lost weight(as I had extra on me at the time), but like you, I missed fruit SO much, even worse than starch! Also, I swear, the minute I went OFF the Atkins diet, eating ANY starchy carbs made me put all the weight(a few pounds worth)back on plus a little bit more. Plus I binged on the wrong kind of carbs, not good! That's when I knew it was not for me. But back then I didn't know too much about food at all. Same thing happened with the traditional pre-contest bodybuilding diet - sure, it worked like a charm to get the body fat down, but afterwards, I ate ice-cream for 10 days straight, something I never did with regular non-restrictive eating - binge city! With the chia seeds, I do soak them. At first I was just tossing that tablespoon or two of them into my smoothies, but I think the effect is better with them pre-soaked. What I do is to put the dose into a glass of water before going to bed, so when I get up, I've got chia gel all set to blend up with the fruit, greens, and hemp protein. I can't say ENOUGH good things about chia seeds, as they have made a real difference for me with strength and endurance, plus digestion/elimination in the smoothies! I know a friend of mine who actually IS diabetic eats a couple of tablespoons of these each day too. He's not raw, but is starting to be interested. I referred him to that DVD too. Personally, I think the green smoothie is THE most amazing elixir ever, and this the gateway that I came into raw early last year that made it "click" for me after 15 years of being interested and trying and going on and off. Now, if I go off, it's for one or two meals only(usually something fairly healthy - not junk!), not days, weeks or months at a time, so that's progress!
My general eating pattern now is one good green smoothie per day, later usually some of my dehydrator crackers with a mashed avocado, or spread on them(home-made and raw)along with some more greens, tomatoes and maybe one other thing I have lying around. With the crackers and spread, I usually just eat the bowl of veggies undressed, or with some lime or lemon juice. Another meal may feature a couple of pieces of fruit with a handful of cashews. Another meal may feature a wrap(using a collard leaf)loaded up with veggies and home-made spread. A piece of fruit almost any time for a quick pick-up. Lately I've gotten into Delicata squash noodles with some olive oil, nutritional yeast, a bit of salt and some cayenne, for a "ramen noodle"-like treat without the guilt, trans-fats, and wrong kind of carbs! Very filling and satisfying too. Some cherry tomatoes with that, and some chopped sundried olives for garnish are great too. Lots of my meals are pretty simple. I'm getting a food processor soon, so that will expand my repertoire of things I get into too.

[Defiance]

With the chia seeds, I do soak them. At first I was just tossing that tablespoon or two of them into my smoothies, but I think the effect is better with them pre-soaked. What I do is to put the dose into a glass of water before going to bed, so when I get up, I've got chia gel all set to blend up with the fruit, greens, and hemp protein. I can't say ENOUGH good things about chia seeds, as they have made a real difference for me with strength and endurance, plus digestion/elimination in the smoothies!

Hi Cara!

You inspired me! I got my Chia seeds and have been adding them to my green smoothies. Can't tell anything yet, but I will keep doing it!

Love and light,

Christy
:)

[Raw Angel Mom]

I sadly cannot remember the name, but there was one person from the olympic that did the raw vegan diet. Perhaps visit the exercise from this board.

Typically, anyone doing training have studied that that this is a must to have so much protein etc... What we learn from school typically stay with us very strongly, but if we have an open mind and listen the common sense we will see for ourselves. More and more athletes are doing the raw vegan diet. Dr. Douglas Graham is an athlete and he specialize coaching athlete with their diet to gain optimal energy. And this is raw VEGAN.

If you watch dr. Phil and look of their main coach with exercise and also the coach of Oprah, they don't look young but their age, look at their skin. It demand extreme energy to digest a huge amount of animal protein. What help them to be healthy, is that they do exercise and probably has a good attitude with life which is number one to be healthy. Can you imagine, if they would do the raw vegan diet, they would look phenomenal.

Anyway, best wishes with your friend!

[greenfeline]

Protein and amino acids are not different. Amino acids make up protein. A classic work is Diet for a New America where he goes into this and so much more. I don't know of that many raw athletes other than the ones already mentioned, but there are plenty of vegan athletes including olympic medal winners. Even Arnold Swartz(whatever) said in an interview that body builders get too hung up on protein and it is in excess. Also excess animal protein is highly correlated with disease.

[jacsam]

Go to the protien section in Alissa's book and it's all there....while your there check out the section on calcium because that eventually comes up also.

[Veganforlife]

I agree with Tonya Kay

"Protein is a marketable myth"

Think about it. How many people are protein deficient? Way many more are Vitamin B12 deficient.

check her out here:

http://letstalkraw.com/guests/tonya-kay/call-with-tonya

[Revvell]

That link is for members only btw.

Revvell (http://letstalkraw.com)


I

Think about it. How many people are protein deficient? Way many more are Vitamin B12 deficient.

check her out here:

http://letstalkraw.com/guests/tonya-kay/call-with-tonya

[rawstrength]

Protein is destroyed and altered by heating, rendering it less useable to the body. The raw vegan diet is the best diet for athletes because of all the antioxidants. The antioxidants can clean up the free radicals produced by exercise.