Sister on raw food diet - please help me understand

[Autumn_Wreath]

Hi all,

I registered on this board hoping to get a little more understanding of the raw food diet, because my younger sister is doing this and I have some grave concerns. My intention is not to criticize anybody who chooses this way of eating. My intention is to try and understand what's going on, and whether y'all think her situation is normal.

My 31-year-old sister is 5'6" and has over the past year has gone from a previously 130-lb curvy, luscious yoga body with muscle tone, breasts, hips - to a skeletal 96 pounds eating only raw foods. She is cold all the time, wearing a down vest and mukluk boots when the weather's in the 80's. She has zero energy. She is irritable and never smiles anymore. She admits she doesn't feel good, yet stubbornly says this is the most healthy she's been (!). She hasn't had a period in over a year. And most worrisome of all, she obsesses over the preparation of her raw foods, spending at least six to eight hours a day in the kitchen making something like ...almond cheese. Shredding vegetables and arranging them. She worries excessively about going out, going to a gathering or celebration, eating around the table with family - "What will there be for me to eat?"

I am seriously worried and have tried confronting her about this, resulting in her cutting me off. I want my beautiful, healthy, glowing sister back.

This cannot possibly be the outcome for most people on the raw food diet, or nobody would do it.

What has gone wrong here?

[Inca_faerie]

Sounds to me like your sister has orthorexia (extreme health obsession) and possibly might be anorexic. There is a right way and a wrong way to be raw. The right way is to make sure your body is getting enough calories and nutrients to ensure a stable weight. The wrong way is to completley disregard your body's caloric needs and eventually turn into a skeleton whilst telling yourself it's the right thing to do.

SHE NEEDS TO EAT MORE!! I'd recommend raw hemp protien, coconut oil/butter and honey to build/maintain a healthy weight plus some strength training. Also supplementing with L-Leucine would help her stablize her weight. It sounds very much like she's in denial. All you can do is be there for her. It's her choice wether or not she wants to be healthy or wether she want's to ignore the damage she's doing to her body. For your sake and her's I hope she get's better soon.

[Rawkinlocs]

Wow, my heart goes out to you and your sister and I commend you for researching this out on behalf of your sister.

Well, as Inca Faerie said, there are times when people do tend to take this thing to the extreme. I was expecting to hear you say that your sister avoids certain types of raw foods, fats, etc.

I DO know that STRESSING out over raw and worrying over every little minute detail can also affect people. There are a LOT of raw foodists who do not become underweight or unhealthy so it must be the factor that your sister has become somewhat obsessed over this thing. I NEVER advise people to obsess over raw and neither does Alissa Cohen, the owner of this forum and the author of Living on Live Food. She and I were in conversation just recently about this and how people can just really take this to a whole other level and it becomes another eating disorder for them.

This is why we try so very hard to keep this forum based upon Alissa's teachings from her book so that people will know that they can be raw, they can be healthy and they don't have to become obsessive about it.

If you've ever seen pictures of Alissa, some people question her level of "rawness" because she's not a frail, skinny woman. Neither am I nor a lot of others here on this forum.

Now, there IS a time of "shedding one's false body" which basically means, when you've eaten a certain way for the majority of your life, your body has developed fat pockets and fatty tissue that also stores toxins as well. Once you decide to eat a cleaner, healthier diet, then the body attempts to rid itself of all of that "old stuff"...the old fat and toxins and tissue that was built on a foundation of unhealthy foods. BUT...overtime the body SHOULD begin to rebuild itself on the healthier stuff. In my first, probably 3-6 months or so of being raw, I had lost a lot of weight and my family members commented on it a lot. But, as I mentioned before, my body began to rebuild and I began to put weight back on. I didn't go back to my pre-raw weight, but my body stabilized at a weight that I came to terms with as being my TRUE ideal weight range.

But, it sounds as though your sister has been raw for at least a year now? So I'd say that by now, she should have began to rebuild.

Also, does your sister do any exercising at all...any weight training or yoga?

Another thing too...have you ever heard it said that when one is attempting to lose weight that they should eat many small meals per day in order to boost the metabolism? Well, for her, perhaps she needs to do the opposite and just eat a few larger meals per day rather than "grazing" here and there.

The meal prep-thing is something a lot of us do...that's part of our whole thing. Now, I realize you're probably exaggerating a bit about her spending 8 hours straight in the kitchen to make nut cheese...that takes like a few minutes to make, honestly. But I do know that some things take a while but the preparation part usually does not...it's usually if something needs dehydrating or needs to be sprouted...so she really shouldn't be spending hours upon hours in the kitchen making food unless she is just in there preparing a LOT of food at once. But that's not an issue here, just fyi.

But I do hope that she gets better.

[Raene]

My first thought was orthorexia too, but I'm a very thin person, always was, but now have looked deathly skinny for a while. Actually I've gained about 10 lbs since September, but that's after having been raw for 10 months now. Good luck...I'm sure you'll receive many helpful answers.

Not all of us are sickly...many of us started out sick and have now been healed.

[Asian Pear]

Does she eat any fruit? I ask as there was a news story done on orthorexia, the gentlemen looked like a skeleton with a blanked of skin, very weak and barely hanging on, I noticed he ate practically no fruit, and a lot of oils and vegetables. That may work for some, but it's a recipe for disaster for others.

There's a school of thought within the raw food community which totally shuns fruit, especially sweet, seedless and "hybridized" fruit. So they get all their calories through veggies, nuts, seeds, seaweeds and oils.

That might be something to look into or ask about.

[MiahTay]

If it was my sister I would take an interest in her interest, have her teach you about what she is doing, tell her up front that you're not interested in being 100% raw but you want to learn more so you can understand her more and be able to relate better, and possibly pick up some healthier habits (everyone can use some more fruits and veggies in thier diet, right?). You will be able to observe what she is doing and possibly by asking questions (you probably want to do a bit of research on the side, like you are doing here) maybe get to the root of the problem if there is one (which it sounds like there could be).

Blessings,
Heather

[souldanzer]

With the information you have given in your post I would say that your sister is ill and has anorexia. While raw food alone is not an eating disordered way of feeding yourself it can very well be (ab)used to do so. Her contextual habits like arranging food, spending extraordinary amounts of time preparing foods, obsessing over food, withdrawing socially due to food - they all indicate an eating disorder.
I would advise you to seek some professional help and information on how to deal with this situation best. Talk to a eating disorder counselor/therapist, call a local treatment center and go to an information meeting, read books on how to best identify, approach and deal with eating disordered loved ones.

My best wishes to you and your sister.

Souldanzer

Edit: And no, it is not "normal" to spend 6 hours on preparing food everyday on a raw food diet.

[Vaclare79]

I am having a problem similar to that as well. I'm tired all the time, obsessed with it eating only the same foods over and over etc.. I need to break out of the routine.

[gingincal]

Welcome, Autumn Wreath. Hope you find all the info you need to understand and help your sister, and soon. There is some good, practical advice to be found here. Alissa Cohen's book is the best I've come across for the nuts and bolts of eating raw food. Perhaps if your sis hasn't read this book, she should. :)

[Matches]

I agree with the others.

Raw food can be easily used to disguise an eating disorder.

You might want to watch your sister a bit to see if shes using it to hide an ED(eating disorder). If she says she ate something in the fridge and its not there check the garbage cans and try to see if she is possibly hiding food in her room. I know this might be invasive on her privacy but I'm sure helping your sister and her health is more important.

Try feeding her raw food too and actually watch her eat, and then stick around for another few hours after she ate( if she has to go to the bathroom wait for her directly outside the door, if the tap is running too long then knock).

Habits like spending 6-8hours to make 'almond cheese' is ridiculous. In the summer to make that(I think it's the same recipe, or close) it wouldnt have taken me even close to 1hour. Raw food recipes arent supposed to take so long as I know :'/

I suggest talking to your sister and finding out whats up. My heart goes out to your sister and family, goodluck. I hope things will improve *hug* :)

[Aleesha Sattva]

Matches, I can't imagine that she'd have access to her bedroom or fridge... since her sister is 31 years old and probably not living with her. Although I could be wrong.

My heart goes out to you Autumn. What a beautifully caring sister you are to come here and research. You have received some great advice and I just wanted to hug you... (((hug))) and thank you for caring!

[Revvell]

"I am seriously worried and have tried confronting her about this, resulting in her cutting me off."



You might want to watch your sister a bit to see if shes using it to hide an ED(eating disorder). If she says she ate something in the fridge and its not there check the garbage cans and try to see if she is possibly hiding food in her room. I know this might be invasive on her privacy but I'm sure helping your sister and her health is more important.

Try feeding her raw food too and actually watch her eat, and then stick around for another few hours after she ate( if she has to go to the bathroom wait for her directly outside the door, if the tap is running too long then knock).

I suggest talking to your sister and finding out whats up. My heart goes out to your sister and family, goodluck. I hope things will improve *hug* :)

[Eva]

All "raw diet" means is that food is in it uncooked state. Some people eat huge amounts of nuts, seeds and avocados. Some are on a low-fat diet. It ranges, depending on the person.

Many, like me, just live in total freedom from sickness and rules and just eat what we desire when we desire, as long as it's raw vegan. I spend no more or less time with my food now, but I sure do spend less money going to the doctor and pharmacy.

We cannot possibly know all of the details of what is happening with your sister beyond what you told us. And it sounds like, if the manifestation of your "worry" has caused you to be cut off too, you likely don't know many of the real details of what is happening with her. Man, that's tough!

All people need support, love, and understanding -- not judgment. I hope that you are able to give her that and to be a part of her life in whatever way gives her that.

I wish you both the best!

[mongodelight]

The general advice is:

1. major calorie source: fruit(at least 1200 calories (carbohydrates and sugar is very similar, but u need to eat more pieces of fruit because it is stored for only 2-4 hours /or u use fats(avocado, cacao) - when the sugar is released slowlier)

2. secondary calory source(600calories): fat (avocado, olives, coconut,raw cacao, any kind of nut, seeds like hemp seed, sunflower seeds and many more

3. last calory source: Veggies, espially green leafy vegetables: its a good stable of protein and most important minerals. Make sure she gets the best dark green veggies there are. Salt is a good idea too, natural salt like sea salt!
dark green Vegetables are really important. Much different dark green veggies and salt can make sure she dont get a mineral deficiency, which happens within 2 months on a close to 100% fruit diet without dark green veggies, without salt(i ve been there!, Dark green veggies and salt answered the problem)

4. Make sure there is a big variety of every of these
food groups: Fruit(f.e. berries,tropical fruits) ; Veggies(f.e.cale, dark green leafy veggies, cuhcumber(less important than leafy veggies));
fats(f.e. avocado, olives, nuts and seeds)

The best advice i can give to you:

Donate the book "The sunfood diet" by David Wolfe to her. Lead authority on the subject of raw food, he gives seminars all over the world, eats raw food for 14 years, great book!

edit: haha i wondered that america is the lead country in the raw food movement. Now i know: You have no insurance^^ No insurance, we cant imagine that, no insurance ... we associate that with living in an african village

[Revvell]

Kind of makes people start taking responsibility for their own health rather than running to doctors for every little thing ~ although they still do.

Personally, I choose NOT to have "sick" insurance ~ it doesn't insure a darn thing other than one has to be sick in order to use it.

So, by "we" you mean everyone in Germany?



edit: haha i wondered that america is the lead country in the raw food movement. Now i know: You have no insurance^^ No insurance, we cant imagine that, no insurance ... we associate that with living in an african village

[RawHeaven]

AutumnWreath, did your sister exhibit any tendencies towards eating disorders prior to going raw? Did something major happen in her life in the last year or two? Break up with someone special - experienced a loss of some kind? That's what I'm picking up. There must be a trigger. She may have been carrying false body image pictures of herself for years or other challenges, emotional etc long before this occurred. Or again perhaps it's a response to something else that's going on in her life. Food and her body may be the only thing she thinks she can "control" at this time. Understand this and I think then you can help her. Don't go in with judgement or worry, but reconnect with her and ask her what's up without talking about her diet or food. Find out what's going on with her really. She may need to get professional help too. You're a beautiful person and I'm sure your sister is too. Big hugs to you.

[RawHeaven]

I want to reply with another thought since you are gathering information about the rawfood lifestyle. My own (younger) sister thought I had an eating disorder after I began eating 100% raw foods. About six months into it for me she confronted me and told me I looked ill - she was very worried. The reason being is because I dropped a lot of weight quickly and to her I looked too skinny. You have already received great information about this from everyone who's commented, but it could be that she's shedding her old body. There is a rebuilding period that takes place thereafter as Rawkinlocs talked about. I was fine and I did rebuild my body with raw foods - actually I'm still in the process. But I was not sick, I was just releasing everything that was "sick" in my body if this makes any sense.

I also spent a lot of time preparing gourmet meals when I first went raw. Not because I was obsessing, but because I enjoyed experimenting and also to stock up on the raw goodies. It doesn't sound like she's eating enough - but just thought I'd share this.

The other thing is the social aspect of being raw which is why this board is so helpful for many. It can be socially isolating when you first start out because you may not find too many people who understand what you're doing. On top of this, they may throw a lot of negative energy at you. Even those who love and care about you can project their fears and own issues about food onto you. It can create stress as there are many social & emotional connections to food in our society. You really see this when you become a raw foodist. Even if you didn't recognize how central food is to almost everything we do in our culture previously, it really becomes evident when you begin to change and choose to eat raw foods. When you change and begin focusing on your health, it can make others in your life uncomfortable whether they realize it or not.

To recap:

1) Eating raw food can look like an eating disorder to non-raw fooders who aren't educated about the lifestyle.

2) You can experiment with foods in the beginning and it can appear that you're obsesssing over it.

3) It can take some time to find your way again socially after beginning. Cutting people off may be a part of this. There is something called emotional detox that she may be experiencing.


I do have a feeling she has an eating disorder from what you've described, but just in case she does not have an eating disorder and is perhaps simply transitioning I wanted to share this as well.

Be well and strong.

Love,
Crystal

[souldanzer]

Kind of makes people start taking responsibility for their own health rather than running to doctors for every little thing ~ although they still do.

Personally, I choose NOT to have "sick" insurance ~ it doesn't insure a darn thing other than one has to be sick in order to use it.

So, by "we" you mean everyone in Germany?

Yes, as far as I know from when I lived in Germany at some point, it is illegal to not have health insurance - yet this is not necessarily so that German people can run to the doctor for every little aui and have all their ailments treated with pharmacology. It is rather from the perspective that it would be unethical that any one person would have to carry those unimaginably impressive costs *in the rare case* of a serious illness or accident(!) that eating healthy alone will not take care of.

And I don't have "sick" insurance anymore either - for the reason that I did, in fact, *USE* it once for a major illness and now I am *too much of a risk* for any insurance company, apparently (meaning: I didn't just pay THEM but made them actually pay for my medical costs...go figure!). Well, the treatment I got didn't help, raw did, so I don't need them anyways :D:cool:

Souldanzer:)

[Raw Angel Mom]

Autumn, i am so proud of you for posting and being so loving and taking the time to do research.

I have been 100% raw for almost two years now and i am nursing my child.

I am the same height as your sister. I went down to 104 lb and finally started to gain healthy fat, i am back up to 124 lb and i have been stable. I don't know the back ground of your sister. But let's say that she does everything right, it is normal to loose all the bad fat at first because your body wants to store the good fat. Now, if she has some problem OR afraid to eat, then this is something else. Many has shared great insight and wisdom already with you. Raw food wasn't that popular but is much ancien then we think. It is becoming more and more popular and it seems to heal our body especially if you eat fresher, alive food and pure (no chimecal).

For being cold, this is so normal. I was freezing on july and couldn't stand any air conditioning. Now, i can tolerate so much more the winter or heat, it is like my body adapt so much better. When you loose weight, anyone will be more chill for your are losing your "coat made of fat". Also detoxing could do this.

If she is feeling good, then this is great news. If not, she may want to do research and find a naturopath or homeopath doctor that do eat raw. Don't ask me why, but when they get their education they are being taught that raw food is bad, the one that do raw can see for themself that there is magic with raw food and it really heal your body.

My experience has been a wonderful journey. My skin problem is cleared, i got energy and work full time and still nurse my child that is about to be three years old (i pump my milk and she drinks from a bottle).

Because she seem to be a veta, she should try to eat food at room temperature and avoid cold food. Trick for that, she can warm her food with her dehydrator, or warm water bath. She can take her food out of the fridge for one hour before to preparre it. If she eats icream on summer, she should do this very slow.

Eating raw food, mean that your food is preparre in a different way in order to preserve the enzyme. You can have pizza, pasta, pates, soups, desert, mash potatoes, crakers, chips, vegan cheese and you name it. If you eat an apple, you got all the necessary enzyme in it, to help your body to digest it. That way, your body doesn't have to use its own reserve of enzyme to disgest this food. The less energy your body use to digest, the more you preserve your youth. It is truly just a different way to preparre your food to preserve the enzyme and nutriments.

For most people, they look greater and greater as they do raw. I personally did look beat up even though i was feeling great on raw food at first, now, you bet that i caught up, lol...

I went raw in the past then went back to healthy cook food, but i never could have the energy that i had at that time. Two years after, i went back to this diet and never looking back. I do make room for more nice sprouts, greens smoothies and fresh vegetable juice on top of my raw gourmet meal.

Raw rock and heal

Perhaps, you can make research on good DVD about raw food to help your sister to educate herself. I am still learning about raw food and most of all, i am trying to find the voice of my body and let my body tell me what it wants. I recommend that you go also visit the raw family website www.rawfamily.com They all reverse their health problem and they aren't skinny.

Best wishes!