Day Two

[RawVegRon]

I've been trying to do this now for over a year. At age 65, I've read books that warn me that a 65 y/o male who has been eating SAD his entire life should be treated as someone with heart disease. That scares me quite a bit, because I know it's true. So I've tried to get off SAD by eating unlimited quantities of fruits and veggies--and nothing else--no pizza, ice cream, chocolate brownies, coffee, junk food. . . everything that I have come to crave over the years.

Well, I stopped drinking almost two years ago, and I find that the withdrawals from comfort food are worse than the withdrawals from alcohol! I can't seem to go longer than a few weeks! Of course, I'm taking the black and white, all or nothing approach of AA; which says, "It's like being pregnant. You either are, or you are not, entirely abstinent from comfort foods."

With that approach, one single cup of coffee (with cream and sugar and flavorings) throws me off so bad that I wind up in a binge soon after the coffee. Coffee seems to really knock me for a loop when I've been on a low-fat diet for a few days.

I can't understand the people who don't have any problem with eating a few SAD meals and then getting back on a raw food plan for a day or two, then eating a "moderate amount" of SAD for a while, etc.

I'm sure the problem is the way that I'm thinking about it. I think like an alcoholic. I feel that I must abstain "entirely." I seem to be an obsessive-compulsive person who apparently cannot eat just one potato chip without finishing the whole bag!

I know there must be other people out there like me--because I can pick them out when I walk down the street. . . they are obese, diabetic, and addicted to SAD to the point that they suffer obesity-related chronic, degenerative diseases. There's lots of that in our society, so I know I'm not the only one!

So why is it so easy for everyone else, and so difficult for me? Actually, I already know the answer to that. . . it must have something to do with the way I think.

Ron

[curlygirl82]

Hiya Ron,
I've been struggling with this, myself. Wondering why I can't have just a nibble of this or that - after all, if I'm eating the majority of my diet raw, isn't it ok for me to have a taste of whatever?
Well, for me, at least right now, as a beginner, it seems like it isn't. And this is really hard for me to wrap my head around. I felt so wonderful the first week I was 100% raw, but whenever I indulge in just a bit of bread or taste of soup, then I start feeling bad again, and it's not all mental, it's a synergistic thing, mental and physical. I was trying to tell myself that cooked food isn't like smoking - you can still have a little bit here and there and be OK... but for me right now, I've realized, it actually IS like smoking, and the desire for cooked food is engendered by each bite - it's a self-perpetuating chain. I don't know if it will always be this way, but it sure is right now.
I've read - perhaps on this board? - that one of the best things about going raw is that you start to communicate better with your body, and instinctively KNOW what food it wants... but this doesn't start right away, you have to build up some time on 100% raw first before it starts - because when your body is full of toxins and cooked food, it's gonna have unhealthy cravings - so you really can't listen to it, because it's like a raving addict, asking for things that aren't good for it. So I keep this in mind now whenever I start rationalizing that I can have just a little bit of ____ cooked. Give me a solid 30 days at 100%, and then if I feel like I really want something, maybe. But chances are, I won't.
Hope that helps.
We're tough, we can do this. And welcome to the board.

[spicyfull]

I wish you everything you need to Stay RAW..............Welcome to MY World.

[shashibala]

I'm just like you! I react very poorly to cooked food now that I'm raw. I do best when I just stay raw. I used to be grumpy because I can't be like other people and do things in moderation. Now I just face it and do what works for me. I wish you all the best!!!:)

[jacsam]

I too have been an all or nothing girl.......when it comes to being totally raw. I could easily do raw 50 - 80 percent but 100 was something different but I would just keep learning and trying new recipes and trying and one time it just clicked and happened. I hope it does for you too. Good Luck!

[Dogma23]

Ron -

I am also one of those all or nothing people... I cannot just eat one potato chip... So I know how you feel... I have found for me that staying 100% raw is much easier... I decided on Oct 1 no more cooked food, diet cokes, and anything that was not healthy for me... I basically look at it that I have replaced unhealthy addictions with a healthy addiction...

I have however found with raw that I am finally able to stop eating when I am full...

[Frugal Raw]

Welcome!! I wish you the best of rawesome health!!

[RawVegRon]

Yesterday turned out to be a fairly good day. I posted in the a.m., then came back later and read the replies to my posts at a time when I needed support. In the evening, when my compulsions for night eating started to come on, I went back and wrote emails to all the people who had responded to my post (I found out that some people do not accept emails). So I made it through Day Two, and learned something as well.

I learned that I'm not the only one who has trouble with moderation; eating "just one," or "just a little bit," or "now I need a coffee, with cream and sugar and flavoring--but tomorrow I'll get back on my diet and never slip again"!

I think I need more input from raw vegans, like myself (wanna-bees), and less input from "normal people" who tell me I can have one potato chip, or who argue, "aren't you over-doing this crazy thing if you can't even have a chocolate chip cookie. . . . just one"? The replies to my post yesterday convinced me that the easy way to do this is to be 100% raw and not tinker around with all kinds of ways to sabotage myself.

The problem is that, here in Seattle, I feel like I'm the only one doing this. I know there are other raw vegans and lots of potlucks here in Seattle. In fact, I've been to one of the potlucks. It seemed that everybody there was on a pride and ego trip to see who could come up with the tastiest recipe, containing the most seeds, nuts, avocados, olives and vegetable oils like olive oil. There was even a "raw chocolate candy" made with blended cashews, chocolate and guava nectar! They replaced a 30% animal fat diet with a 30% vegetable fat diet!

But my reason for doing this thing is that I am 65 y/o and a prime candidate for heart disease, because I've been eating SAD for 65 years. According to Dr. Dean Ornish, M.D., in his book, "Reversing Heart Disease;" and Dr. Carrell Esselstyn, M.D., in his book, "Preventing and Reversing Heart Disease," I need not die from heart disease! I can begin reversing it and getting better--starting today (or at least the reversal will become evident within 5 weeks). However, in order to reverse heart disease, I need to avoid all sources of cholesterol and saturated fat--such as animal products, seeds, nuts, avocados, olives, and vegetable oils.

So I mentioned this at the raw food potluck and some of the people who were proud of their good-tasting raw food with lots of nuts and oils and avocados were a little "non-plussed." I mentioned it on the Raw Washington web site and my post was censored and deleted. I became confused.

I began to feel that I'm an outcast among "normal people" for eating RAW; and I'm an outcast among raw vegans for attempting to reverse heart disease. I felt like a pariah among pariahs. I said that on the Raw Washington web site and was again censored and deleted. I quit the Raw Washington web site, and I haven't been back to the Seattle raw potlucks.

So now I'm trying to use the world-wide-web to find someone who might be supportive, or at least sympathetic, to my attempts to reverse heart disease and other obesity-related chronic, degenerative diseases. I'm hoping that if I cannot find such a contact in Seattle, that I can find such a person somewhere in the world, on the world-wide-web! In fact, I have a wireless phone. I could actually call such a person and talk, if s/he were in the USA.

Today I'm hoping to go 100% raw. I have some cabbage in my refrigerator, and I can't think of anything to do with it except use it to make saurkraut. Can you eat raw cabbage? Eventually, however, I hope to get away from salt because it causes hypertension. Jesus! It seems like everything that's fun is fattening, dangerous or illegal! I might put some shredded rutabegas and yams in the saurkraut because I really don't like those veggies raw either. I bought them some time ago, and I can't eat them raw, and I don't want to bake them at 300 degrees because that destroys the enzymes and living qualities of the food.

I think I'm going to have to go back to the cave, or live on a mountain top to reverse heart disease, and I'm having a self-pity party about it today. Fact is, however, that I would rather eat raw cabbage and rutabegas than to live or die with cancer, diabetes, cardiovascular disease(s), or any of the other obesity-related chronic, degenerative diseases!

Ron

[Veganforlife]

Hey Ron - hang in there. You'll get through it. Read, read, read. And post here. You WILL get massive support. Soon you'll be saying, it's month three, then it's year three...

Cabbage? Oh yes, it can be eaten raw. Do you have Alissa's book? She's got some gr8 recipes in there...

Hang in there. You WILL be fine.

[freshlight]

Hey Ron,

you will manage it, don't worry!

You don't have to be that special to be able to become a raw foodist.......or the other way round: all of us are very special, and that's why we managed. Ha ha, just tryin' to confuse you :-)

It is worth it. Try to do it as long as possible and you'll notice there is no way back to cooked, because you start getting addicted to feelin SO amazingly good with raw.

The paradise is yours, just enjoy it.

Take care,

Eva

[freshlight]

It becomes easy when you change your attutude: you don't abstain from anything good, no! You just decided to eat differently because you want to, bacause it's better for you and is more FUN, believe me!

If you manage to change your thoughts and become as positive as possible in whatever you do, then it becomes VERY easy indeed.

Enjoy!

[spicyfull]

Way to G0000oooooo.

[adelai]

Hey Ron,

Here's a raw cabbage coleslaw recipe I just made yesterday that was delicious! You could fudge it however you wanted to use the ingredients you have.

1.5 cups cabbage (shredded, I used a spiralizer)
.5 cups carrots (shredded or sliced thin)
.5 cups radish (shredded or sliced thin) (optional)

sauce: combine all in blender
1tbsp apple cider vinegar
1tbsp nama shoyu (raw soy sauce)
2 cloves garlic
1-inch piece of ginger (could use powder)
1 tbsp olive oil

Pour sauce over veggies and eat!

This is slightly modified from a recipe in Rawvolution, I highly recommend that book for recipes, along with Alissa's of course!

[Dogma23]

Ron -

Again read read read everything raw you can get your hands on... books from the library, this board, etc. If you have questions post on this board, if you need recipe ideas come to the board...

There is a raw restaurant in Seattle called Chaco Canyon but I have not tried it.

My diet is pretty simple green smoothie for breakfast, salad for lunch, and fruit for dinner.... Raw can be whatever you make of it. I do make more time intensive dishes once a week to give them a shot.

Hang in there it will get easier.

If you want to get in touch with me I can give you some easier recipe sections... However if my email is not working just post something..,

[RawVegRon]

Can you believe I've messed up already? I wasn't going to admit it, but then I realized that I will feel like a hypocrite if I don't come clean.

I had a coffee last night; then another, and another, and another. . . . They had cream and sugar in them. . . and flavoring. . . and it seemed to get me started! Then I had cookies and milk. . . . then. . . . Does anybody know the story?

I come here knowing that I probably have heart disease: a build-up of plaque in my arteries after 65 years of eating pizza, pancakes and butter, chocolate brownies and peppermint ice cream--and now I can't stay off coffee, cookies and milk--even if I know my life depends on it!!! I can't seem to eat green smoothies and salads--even if my life depends on it. . . which it does!!!

That's insanity!!!

Ron

[freshlight]

don't be so hard on yourself. remember that the cooked food is an addiction and you can break it by creating new and healthy habits.

You are not insane: you are a beginner. Just read some new books about rawfoodism and start your new adventure :-)

you can do it if you really want to.

[RawVegRon]

Curlygirl82,

I relate so much to your reply that I tried to respond to it in an email a couple of days ago, only to discover that you don't accept emails from 65 y/o men. Well, I don't blame you one damned bit.

But you sure did describe just how it is with me. I haven't figured out how to do that stuff with the quotes yet, but I could quote your whole response. It is right out of my own journal!

Why can't I seem to moderate, manage and control my food or my life? If I eat a few salads and drink a green smoothie, what difference should it make if I have a coffee, or two, or three. . . with cream and sugar, and flavorings. . . and some whipped cream. . . and a few cookies, brownies, cupcakes and. . . .? Why not? Why can't I seem to control myself at certain times? How can I do so good for 2 or 3 days and then mess up so miserably?

How could such an educated, intelligent man as I develop incipient cancer, diabetes, cardiovascular disease(s) or other obesity-related chronic, degenerative diseases that put other people--less intelligent than me--in nursing homes? Once I know that MY LIFE DEPENDS ON IT, why can't I eat raw broccoli? Is raw squash, spinach or sugar beets such a horrible food that I can't eat it TO SAVE MY LIFE?

Well, I just can't understand it. I can do it for a few days. I can do it long enough to convince myself that I can do it. But once I've convinced myself that I can do it--that's when I'm off guard so badly that I walk into a coffee shop and get a coffee and a cookie! From that time on, I seem to be a different person watching myself eat all the things I convinced myself I should not eat three days ago!!

It's baffling. But you understand what I'm talking about, don't you? Is that the way it starts with you? How are you doing today? You probably think you're different than me today, don't you?

Ron

[islesgirl]

I'm just like you! I react very poorly to cooked food now that I'm raw. I do best when I just stay raw. I used to be grumpy because I can't be like other people and do things in moderation. Now I just face it and do what works for me. I wish you all the best!!!:)

Ron - Welcome, welcome. I know this is the place to be for encouragement. What shashibala said above is so true of me too. I can't be like other people and do things in moderation. I have to face it. Lets do what works best for us.

[RawVegRon]

Ron - Welcome, welcome. I know this is the place to be for encouragement. What shashibala said above is so true of me too. I can't be like other people and do things in moderation. I have to face it. Lets do what works best for us.

:)I cannot moderate either. I know that. It's just that living in a society of people who believe in diet mentality and moderation gets confusing sometimes. I think I probably belong here, not there. I wish I could get away from those people and live in my own raw food utopia, but that is probably not a reality.

Oh, well.

Ron

[lsadeseyens]

Ron,

I wrote Islesgirl in another thread that I had just bought Victoria's book 12 steps to raw. I haven't finished it yet, am only halfway through. From what someone else said, it sounds as though she doesn't give a lot of advice on how to go about doing it. I don't know because I haven't finished the book. I know that she said when her family went raw, she had to take a big garbage bag and just throw out everything and have nothing but raw in the house. I know that she also stated that for craving up the greens like green smoothies. You get so much more nutrition when you mulch the greens than just eating a salad. She said she was constantly grazing on raw food and still didn't seem satisfied. That's when she started the green smoothies~~many times a gallon a day! "when blended well, most of the cell walls in greens and fruits are ruptured, making the valuable nutrients easy for the body to assimilate. They are a complete food" she says most people do not consume enough greens even those that stay on a raw diet.

You mention how can someone as intelligent as you not stay on this diet? Victoria volunteered at the Creative Health Institute and there were 132 people who had cancer. All the people were placed on a strict raw food diet. Most felt better and tumors started to shrink. When they returned home, they continued diet for a while, however all slipped off of the diet when the holidays came around. One person, couldn't stay on the raw food diet and her cancer came back. She sent her a thank you note before she died. I am not writing this to scare you, I am writing it because she says that it shows that a dependency on cooked food is often stronger than the fear of death. That is a strong addiction. Overcoming addiction is taking one step at a time. I have a very difficult time staying on the diet, because my husband is not raw. Neither are my two children who come to visit now and again and so there is always non raw food in the house. I take it a day at a time and find that once I am doing raw for a while, it gets easier. Once I finish this juice fast, I am going to up the green smoothies. Best of luck and hope this helped.:)
Linda

[GlimR]

Hi Ron~
I know you might feel frantic to get things done, to "be" raw in a hurry. But each change you make will build you up and lay the foundation for the next one.
Read, read, read as much as you can get your hands on about raw food. Try recipes that sound good. Try to find replacements for things that you are now eating that aren't good for you with a raw substitute that you like. The raw food way of eating is NOT about deprivation, it is about abundance. So much of what we each do is a mindset...stop making yourself crazy with what you can't do and praise yourself for what you can.
Add smoothies and salads and even raw desserts and nut based foods. Raw fats are not processed in the body like animal based ones and are much more beneficial to the heart. Make the raw switch, get firmly settled in that and then worry about cutting down your fats if you feel that is necessary for your health. First see what changes happen in your body and health with just raw and go from there. No, if you want to see real changes you can't eat the crap food. I tell me daughter all the time, yes, I love the taste of "whatever" but it does not love me. Wishing you the very best. It's a learning journey...and the truth is you learn as you go and find what works for you and what doesn't...be kind to yourself.

[saxmaam]

Hey Ron,


seeds, nuts, avocados, olives, and vegetable oils.

I'd have a problem, too, eliminating all that. If I eat just fruits and vegetables, I never feel satisfied, even though I may feel "full". I guess I question whether it's really needed to avoid all of that. One thing I read is that some of the research that proved the evils of saturated fat was based on a categorization that put trans-fats into the general "saturated fats" category.

I do understand that a therapeutic diet (to heal cancer/diabetes/heart disease, for example) is much more limiting than what a young and healthy new raw foodist can get away with.

There are "trigger foods" that will just lead to me going crazy with them, so I do better avoiding those altogether.

I guess that in your shoes I'd (1) try to add some of the quoted items above to my diet and figure out which ones I can eat in moderation. That is, which ones aren't triggers for me, but will help me feel a bit more full, and (2) research the recipes used at Tree of Life and Hippocrates Institutes, where they treat and counsel people with the health crises mentioned above. (3) I'd take supplemental enzymes (see Karen DeFelice's book). And (4) if I had the folding cabbage, I'd go to Hippocrates or Tree of Life and let them help me out.

[DharmaGirl]

Hi Ron (and others)!

So after reading this thread, I'm wondering how you're doing, Ron? It's been 3 months since your original post. Have you managed to stay focused and eat mostly raw?

I've just jumped back on the RAWbandwagon myself and this is Day 7 for me..... I was inspired by all the support offered to Ron in this thread, and it has truly helped me believe that 1) - I am NOT alone;, 2) Just about ALL raw foodists eat this way to stay healthy and feel better; 3) ALL raw foodists LOVE eachother and really reach out to others who are trying to eat raw!!!

It's all about LOVE - of others who are trying to stay on the RAW path and of out great maker who provides us with this BEAUTIFUL DELICIOUS food to strengthen and nourish our bodies, minds and spirits!!!

Hang in there, folks and just take it ONE DAY AT A TIME!!!

Sending you all love and raw blessings!!!!!