5 year old NOT transitioning

[Zaphirah]

she is being incredibly difficult and exasperating. She will not try anything. Nothing at all. If she dares to, before it hits her tongue she shakes her head and shudders like she just at a worm, and runs to the trash and spits it out. The 3 boys LOVE what I make, esp the treats, so I know she is making it up or psyching herself out. She is living on celery, cashews, raisins, nutitional yeast, apples, and bananas. She's drivin' me up the wall. I make everything sweet for her. She even hates vanilla shakes-and vanilla is her FAVORITE flavor for everything. I have tried asking her to help me in the kitchen, but all I get is a "No thanks." I about ready to quit this whole project. I can't see me cooking for her, but making something totally different for the boys. I think it would seem unfair at this point in their early intro to raw (3 weeks). She doesn't like chocolate/cacao, or seed candy, or watermelon candy. She doesn't like fruit smoothies or seed/nut mylks. She refuses to eat at dinner time. Either I force her (which I hate) or she eats MORE of her 5 foods.

WWUD?

[Lady Green Jeans]

You could maybe transition her a little more slowly as you stated she is quite reluctant. Seems I read where some of the mothers had great success going this route with their children of various ages.

I adore dipping things. Maybe make carrot, celery, broccoli (or her favorites) in smallish pieces/strips with a raw or non-raw dipping sauce. A sweet and tangy or ranch-type works well. Does she like any of the nut butters? Could make her a raw almond butter sandwich on traditional multigrain with sliced strawberries or lined up blueberries or raspberries (make cute designs with the fruit or have her design her own). There was a carmel sauce posted here awhile back that would be fantastic with apple slices.

Good luck with your continued success in transitioning your family to a most healthy lifestyle.

[Crazy Healer Lady]

What were her favourite foods before this?? Can you get away with making them raw and not telling her? I know deception is not a good thing, especially for kids, but sometimes in extreme cases, I totally feel it's OK. My niece loves green smoothies, but since preschool, doesn't like them "green." I make raspberry shakes instead and put a few green leaves in.

Stick with it, hun! I wouldn't recommend forcing her to eat, but that's your call. Perhaps try making it "not a big deal" and just allowing her to observe what others are doing. By the way you put it across, it seems like she is spurred on by the attention and the conflict this gives, not enjoying it, but spurred on.

So that's my recommendation. Sneak other foods into what she already eats (i.e. some red pepper ground with cashews and nutritional yeast for a "cheese," which opens up a whole new realm of healthy additions) and shrugging it off. "You don't want to eat? OK. We'll eat." She'll associate the foods with family time rather than the anger of being forced into something.

But again that's your call. You know best for your child. These are just some suggestions and what has helped me in my experience.

[shashibala]

Well, I haven't been through this myself, but it seems that it has become a battle of wills. I would suggest that you let her eat her 5 foods and put out plenty of other raw foods for her to choose from on her own, but don't give this conflict any more energy. I would say that she needs to sit at the table with the family and have food in front of her, but if she chooses not to eat, then okay. Be cheerful and disinterested in what she chooses to eat. Perhaps build on what she already likes. Maybe she would try celery with almond butter and raisins, or banana, apple,pear, and grapes on a skewer or a toothpick like a shish kabob, nutritional yeast sprinkled on a raw cracker, or a cashew cream to dip her apple slices in. Does she have any ideas? I've seen kids really get stuck in the "I won't try anything" rut at daycare where I work. Eventually they won't try something even if they want to because they think everyone is staring at them and are uncomfortable with the attention. It usually is best to take the attention off them for a while. What did she like to eat before? Was she fairly picky? Are there textures that she avoids? Are you worried about her health? You've all worked so hard, I hope you can stick it out!!
If there is simply no way, I would compromise with just one or two foods. Something plain and boring like brown rice or oatmeal.
Good Luck!!!!

[OneBite@aTime]

The few things that you listed, that she is eating are healthy...you could just stick with that-and not pressure her to eat or try anything else...put a few new samples (small) on her plate each meal and leave it at that. She could be picking up on you stressing out about it.
I run a daycare during the school year for teachers out of my home, and the first few weeks back are always very...um...different, the kids have to get use to eating the healthier stuff at my house-and it takes a few weeks, but here it is October and they're all eating really well-No pressure, I just make sure there is something they like on their plate-and small samples of the other stuff-and eventually they taste it, and like it!

Hang in there!

[MiahTay]

I agree with Shashibala that it has become a battle of wills (ugh, I hate when that happens). You can try the Health Food Store Game in the produce section of the grocery store to expand her five foods. Also Fruit leather might be a way to get her eating more variety. Have you sat down with her and gone over the "whys" of what you are doing. I have recently realized that I tell my children what to do and they do it and they are getting old enough that they need to know WHY they do it. You could let her look through your raw cookbooks and pick some recipes she might want to try after you explain to her that this is "how it is" and you are willing to work with her but she is going to have to be willing to try some stuff. Tough situation.

Blessings,
Heather

[Zaphirah]

thank you everyone. she has herself locked into only 5 foods. I have offered other nut butters, but she is CONVINCED that she only like cashew butter, ya know? I was thinking of allowing steamed brown rice for her dinner while we chow down on lovely raw foods. I'm thinking that eventually she will get sick of it and want to try something else. She really LIVES on cashews. She did the same thing when we all went raw for 30 days 3 years ago. She ate so many cashews that her teeth turned YELLOW. She is a SAD eater to the EXTREME. I believe that she has deep seeded food issues. She will stop and pant and salivate at a commercial and say in a deep voice "Pizza! Pizza! I love pizza! I wsih I could have pizza right now!" She CRIES if I tell her no to a request for a candy bar at the check out even tho I have never ever bought her one!
When she is 100% for 3 days at a time I notice a huge difference in her behavior. She is much happier and energetic, but then she does to preschool and has their snack (juice and a cheese stick, or a muffin and a yogurt smoothie) and she's suddenly back to MISERABLE with our food. It's like trying to quit a drug for her, or something.

I'm not going to quite give up, but to top it off, my dh has been acting all gung-ho about being 100%. I noticed that he is barely eating here, yet his belly seems the same or slightly rounder. Finally I asked him if he was really sticking to it, or if he was having a hard time, to which he told me that his co-worker has been binging him a lunch everyday (meat and cheese sub, soda, chips). He's never eaten like that before, so he's apparently packing on the pounds. I've been working so hard to impress them, and it's only *really* working on the twins. They are dedicated. My 8 yo is eating out of his friends lunch boxes occasionally. I found out, when he went back to throwing temper tantrums, I asked if he had been snacking out of his friends lunches, to which he replied "yes". When he is all raw he is a real dream-child.
My twins are doing it, but they are having a hard time with peer pressure. One child called my ds a "f-g--t" because he does't eat meat. This was a child he had previously considered a friend and he came home crying about it. This is turning out to be much harder than I had first thought.

[shashibala]

Wow! You are in a tough position. Only you can decide what is best. If I were you I might be ready to compromise. I think maybe they aren't all quite ready. Maybe a really healthy whole foods diet would be a place to start. No junk food, gluten free. Raw might just make them want to rebel. Would your husband stick with that kind of plan? I wish you all the best! Keep in mind that the only person you can really control is yourself. Give yourself the best of raw so you can feel great!

[shine72]

I just wanted to add my two cents (just saw the post, and didn't read the replies). J was like that when he first went raw. But as he got tired of one or two of the foods, he would go down to only like 2 or 3 foods for a bit, and then later try other foods and have new favorites. I think it's part of their process in their transition and it works for them. HTH!:D

[saxmaam]

Was she your pickiest eater before raw?

[SmilingRawDancer]

I agree with all of the above - don't turn it into a battle, and try to ride it out. Put raw snacks and dips and chopped up things out all day, and act uninterested in her food choices. I know this first hand because my sister is the same exact way, and my mom went all routes in trying to figure out what to do, and we weren't even dealing with RAW food. If you "care" too much about what they're eating, the rebellious or maybe suspicious response kicks in them. The worst thing to do is to make eating food associated with a battle. Let her eat what she wants (raw) when she's hungry and stop when she's full...giving her celery, cashews, raisins, nutitional yeast, apples, and bananas is better than giving her pizza and candy, and depending on how long the phase lasts it shouldn't be too much of a nutritional emergency. Just keep a non-stressed happy environment about and around food from now on, because my sister has some still deep-seated issues with food because of the way my mom treated her (which wasn't bad, but my mom didn't know what to do at the time. If my mom had lightly eased off, said "No, we're not having anymore pizza or cheeseburgers" and just left out other foods instead, I'm sure that some of these things wouldn't still be an issue.)

[SmilingRawDancer]

Oh yeah, and a slower but still vegan transition with more cooked foods is HARDLY a bad idea - it's SO SO much better than other things kids are eating today. I would rather have my kids cooked vegan their whole lives than eating SAD. While raw is awesome, don't dis a well-rounded cooked vegan (WHOLE FOODS) diet. People can thrive on that as well.

[juliebove]

Your daughter sounds pretty typical for a 5 year old. For years my daughter would eat only cashews. Now she won't touch them. Unless perhaps they are mixed in something. The only raw vegetable she would eat was carrots. She would eat canned green beans. Those were her favorite food and she demanded them with dinner daily. She also demanded black olives. Her meals consisted of the same few things rotated every couple of days.

Now at age 10 she eats a much more varied diet. She is far less picky and much more willing to try new things.

As far as some things go, she may never like them. I didn't like most sweets as a child and I still don't like them. I never liked ice cream or anything with the texture of a milk shake or smoothie. I still don't.

[Jenifae]

I wrote a long dialog just to lose it.........argh!

Well, lemme see if I can write it again.

I started out by telling my story. Of course not Raw but, my story is about how the way we treat children will have a direct result on their future behavior with food.
As a child I was called "picky". The truth of the matter was that I really didn't like the same things the rest of my family liked (including my siblings). They all liked things like califlower, broccoli, and meat. I didn't like any of these. I liked peas, spinach, milk and cheese. Thank goodness my Mom allowed milk. I lived on it and as a result I was constipated my entire life.
My Mom had little to no patience or tolerance for my food "pickiness". Whatever she made is what I had to eat and when I say "HAD TO EAT!, I mean HAD TO EAT!. However, being who I was "rebellious and stubborn" (another phrase she liked to say to me) I had a need to try to defend myself and state my desire or lack there of. So, needless to say we ran into alot of power struggles. My Mom didn't deal with this well at all. She would become very angry and violent at times. Going from; telling me, to demanding me, to holding my mouth shut if I started gagging, to attempting to pry my mouth open, to resorting to physically hitting me upside my head or even face slapping. (Not to bad mouth my Mom in any way. I really think she just didn't have the right tools to cope with her issues and life with.) I don't remember lunches much and I think that is because, I had those at school and therefore, didn't have the conflict.
My Mother asked me several years back if she had anything to do with my Eating Disorder of Anorexia/Bulemia/and sometimes overeating now. I told her no because, I didn't want to hurt her. I think she was under alot of deress herself and she just couldn't contain it.
Now, as a Mother and a Grandmother I had a son and a granddaughter who are both picky like me and with my 2 sons I made 2 different meals for them if I needed to. My older son will eat anything almost and my younger son was picky like me and I didn't want him to have the same relationship with food that I did. So, I allowed him to decide what he felt like eating (hence, intuitive eating comes more natural to kids then us I do believe). His daugther seems to have the same thing now. She ate everything as a baby and is now picky. I don't force her and I let her tell me what she feels her body is needing.
As for being Raw now. I am choosing to be Raw but, don't require my other family members to be Raw. I think if I had small children and they had been Sad eaters previously with me and then I went Raw - I would encourage but, not force.
One thing David Wolfe says that I really LOVE is "ADD IN". Just keep trying to ADD IN more Raw and let them find their process.
But, of course as I said before, we all have to follow the beat of our own drums and follow our own paths.
I wish you much Intuition and Strength in finding what works best for you and your Family.
I hope my story finds you with more awareness and enlightenment in assisting you in finding what works best and not intended for any guilt or remorse. Just sharing my story to hopefully help you figure your path out. I know you will do what's right for ya'll. You are Good Mom!
Love and Light
Jen

[MiahTay]

Ugh - It's a really tough scenario you are navigating. You are at a point where if you want to implement the changes you feel passionate about drastic measures may be necessary.

Hubby - He's a big boy and as long as he is supportive at home and not being a bad influence in the household, I would let him make his own choices.

Kids - Well ... I personally don't see how you can battle SAD food when it is not in YOUR control for one meal a day. We are grown-ups and we know that being around SAD food is sometimes hard, how can we expect our children to make good choices when they don't have the same conviction and maturity we have? Our responsibility as parents is to raise our children according to our convictions ... SO, if it was me, I would remove the temptation until good habits are established or in this case remove the children from the temptation - (please don't get mad, I know this may not be popular) but I think if you homeschooled even for this school year you would have the opportunity to have a positive influence in your children's lives by teaching them about living food, vs allowing other children to call your children names, or have the school feed snacks that undermine what you are trying to teach your children as their parent. Again this is just MY opinion and I have no idea you can enforce your wishes while your kids are at school.

Again, this is a tough situation.

Blessings,
Heather

[shine72]

Zaphirah - I wanted to add a couple of things to what I've put before.

As for J, another thing is this, his top 5 favorite raw foods when we first started, didn't stay that way forever. Once his body got what it needed from them, he tapered down, then found new favorites. We've been through that cycle about 5-6 times in the past year and a half of being raw.

Another thing I did, was I let the kids have some cooked food after being exclusively raw for about 3 1/2-4 months, because they "thought" they wanted it. I'm glad I did. Let me repeat, I'm GLAD I DID! Wanna know why? Because after that, they realized that it wasn't what made their bodies feel good. Now J, my one with autism, will tell ANYBODY, "No thank you. I'm going to go home and have lettuce with olive oil and sea salt and pepper." (That's one of his new favorites.)

But when you already have kids with dietary issues, as much as it sucks to have to tough it out, it helps if you do. My kids weren't glad I did at first, but they sure were glad within less than 6 months of being raw. Let your daughter intuitively eat all she wants of her favorite raw things. Because once her body gets what she needs from it, she'll find new favorites (so she'll still have variety, just different variety than yours or mine). And as for the stuff at school, just talk to them about the importance of how good the food they're eating raw is for their bodies and tell them that if they eat something non-raw at school, to pay attention to how they think, act, and feel for the next hour, 6 hours, and 12-24 hours after. Their bodies will let them know soon enough what's doing good and what's doing harm.

HTH!:D

[Zaphirah]

thank you everyone. Homeschooling is out. I have 4 dc. 2 are autistic (PDD-NOS) and 1 is "selectively mute". I did try to homeschool, but with so many needs I was unable to meet them all, by myself.

We were healthy gluten free cooked vegans prior to this, for more than a year. So I didn't take them from microwaved TV dinners or pizza to raw. I allow dd to eat what she wants when she is out, but at home we are raw. The older dc know that we are going raw, for health reasons (to cure/lessen allergies and autism).

I think I am just going to allow dd to eat what she wants on raw. If we start heading into 2 months like this I may have to change something. Last night I added a little cooked rice to her raw "chinese food" and she still wouldn't eat. So now, even adding in a little cooked doesn't do the trick. :rolleyes:

[Zaphirah]

sunshine-i didn't see your post til after I posted the above. You basically said what I was thinking. Just let her eat and eat and eat her 5 favorites and forget it. Next school year it will get better because she will bring all of her own food to school. This year I asked her if she wanted to and she said no way.

D@MN! I JUST NOW (in mid posting) was talking to her and she agreed that the school food and cooked food makes her feel cranky. She asked if I could send a lunch box to school. Inside I was jumping for joy! Then she followed with "6 more day til I go to nana's and eat fluffernutters." WTH am I gonna do? :mad::mad::mad:

[Jenifae]

Zaphirah,

You sound to be very tuned into your babies :) That's so neat. I think RAW is the best for curing what your DC have going on. I agree just let her eat eat eat whatever she wants RAW!

I hope my share wasn't too much....................guess I'm processing stuff and releasing.

[Crazy Healer Lady]

Following her request for packed lunches with joy for eating SAD food at Nana's doesn't seem like a step back to me. Request for packed lunches is a GIANT step. Take that for what it is, and you'll see that eventually she won't like eating Nana's cooked food.

Congrats on this first of many important steps to health for your family :)

[Zella Juice]

This is really not about food. It's about control. Let her know this is how you eat now and there is no discussion about it. When she mentions how good cooked food is you say "yeah..I remember how good it 'tasted' too. But afterwards it didn't make us feel good"

Sometimes my son and I will talk about how good cooked food tasted and I will tell him...that I will try hard to make a raw version of whatever it is that we are craving.

Your daughter found a way to push your buttons. She doesn't want to change. She senses your hesitation and she thinks she might be able to win this one. When you are confident that this is the best thing for her and don't give her a choice, she will have to back down. But this involves making her part of the process by letting her help out making the food and letting her choose what raw foods she wants to try. We will sit down together and look at the pictures at goneraw.com and he will tell me what he wants to try.

When we first started, I didn't know how to make anything but cheesecake. He lived off that and I made him tons of green smoothies. I figured it was still better than what he was eating. I knew it was better because he didn't get sick anymore. He was sick all the time before.

He still only has about 4 things that he likes but they always change every 4 months or so. Right now he is on his salad kick. He wants salad for lunch and dinner. I think all the green smoothies make him crave the salad. We discovered Kimchee too. He loves that. I put it on his salad. And for extra fat..I put coconut butter and olive oil on the salad. He takes it to school everyday.

Don't give up on raw and don't let a 5 year old decide what YOU are going to feed her. You have the teenage years to look forward to. That's really when the battle begins. And tell nana and other people that she eats raw and to only feed her raw. Bring the food if you have to. I am used to packing him food where ever he goes. You get in the habit and know what foods to pack after awhile. And it DOES get easier.

[Zaphirah]

Thannk you everyone. Well, she changed her mind re: bringing a lunch and is hoping they serve string cheese today. :rolleyes:
BUT I do feel like we may have made a small breakthru. After venting here, when she got up yesterday I hugged her and told her that I don't want to argue about the food anymore. I told her that I am not going to cook food for her, because this is the way we are eating now because I love her and want her to be the healthiest, smartest, happiest girl she can be BUT she can eat whatever she wants on raw (namely her 5 foods). She seemed relieved and ASKED for a banana with agave for breakfast! Then a friend called and invited her over for a playdate. I cheerfully said "Okay! Let's pack you a lunch!" So we packed her favorite: cashews, with a banana and a clementine. I asked the mom to serve her water-no juice. The mom seemed fine with it. (I have personally seen this family eat choco-covered donuts and pepsi to their 4 and 8 year old for dinner). Addie went and had a great time and ate her lunch with no problem.
Then at dinner I made tacos. She "hates" the walnut taco meat, so I made hers with cashews and secretly cut it in half with macadamias. :cool: I also made mango pineapple "salsa". It was just mangos, pineapple, tomato and lime juice. She loved that on top and ate 2 tacos-lettuce leaves and all.

I felt VICTORIOUS! LOL!

[shine72]

Congrats on the victory!

I agree with Zella on the control aspect, but I had to approach it different with my kiddos (I really think it depends on the personality of the child). I did the "I don't care what you eat, so long as it's raw" approach, and it worked well for mine, and it's worked well for my clients as well. You're daughter is at the age where she can choose for herself. There are so many "have-to's" in the life of a child, and so many battles to pick and choose, that I choose (and have counseled my clients to do the same) to not make food a battle. Making food a battle has a serious potential for causing eating disorders down the line.

So, like I said before, give her her five foods, and as you're already starting to see, once she feels like the ball is in her court (and as her body gets its fill of those particular foods), she will expand her eating to more than just the 5 she has chosen for now. :D

[Jenifae]

Sounds to me like the Two of You are really working together as a team. Yes, you are the Mom and have the final word but, having her be part of the process and working in colaboration is just so Awesome!
I'm really impressed with how far you've both come in such a short time.
It's a process and you'll have your moments again that's for sure. You know you are the Mom and so does she and that you have the Final Say.......But, working with her and allowing her to find her acceptance and joy with it. Well, Zaphirah...........That's Priceless!!

RAWR! You go Girl!

[Aleesha Sattva]

i haven't read this thread but i'd love to add something if i may.

my daughter is not raw and only eats 5 things LOL hey kids do this. doesn't make them wrong... just makes them ... well... them.

forcing is never a good thing as that just creates issues... so let her do what she wants, once you are not forcing, making an issue out of it etc... she'll be free to do what she pleases and you may be pleasantly surprised. either way... your stress level goes down! :)

my daughter is 9 and has just in the last year started trying a few new things... i don't sweat it at all... i just let her be her.

[Zaphirah]

she loves the fudgie wudies, even tho he dislikes chocolate. There are macadamias, walnuts, and almonds in there. tee-hee! :cool:

[Zella Juice]

In my case I had to force. He was sick all the time and it had to change. But I always try and give him raw choices to make him feel like he is part of the process. But yeah..it does depend on the kid whether you will get resistance. My child goes along with everything I say and is never defiant. Actually he will be secretly defiant. Like the day he stole candy from the bulk bin at the store. The next day he was coughing and feeling sick. And I found the wrapper and confronted him about it. I asked him to notice how he feels after eating it and he agreed that it wasn't worth it to eat the candy because it made him feel like crap. I told him we would make our own raw candy that will taste just as good and not make him feel bad. He then said that the candy didn't even taste that good and raw candy actually tastes better. But he needed that reminder by eating the bad stuff to make him realize. Just like when we mess up and have cooked food.

[Crazy Healer Lady]

Congratulations on your victory! What a HUGE step! You must be elated!

[coco]

i force too, my little doesn't defy me very much. he has no idea that he can do that, i am the mama and have always set very clear rules and boundaries. don't get me wrong, he is involved in many decision making processes and his autonomy encouraged but when it comes to what is healthy and good for him i make the rules. he has to try something before he says he doesn't like it and only if he absolutely hates it will i exclude it from the menu. but i still often put those items into dishes and he must eat them, i just won't serve them independantly. he doesn't give me a hard time about it but he will sometimes negotiate eating only a portion of it (i'm wise to this and give him more so he ends up eating as much of it as i want him to anyhow).

kids are all unique and what works for one will not work for all. i have a friend who's son refuses to eat all kinds of things, he is exceedingly willful and he would rather go hungry. but she is a much more lenient parent than i am to begin with so i assume that is at least in part learned behavior in him, he is willful and disobedient in most other ways as well while my son mostly toes the line.

my parents were too easy and then too strict about only certain things. i remember resenting their parenting and i have tried to do things differently with my kids while still maintaining some control. so far he's pretty darn happy, considerate and well adjusted. we'll see how it goes with his little sister, maybe she'll be different.

[Zella Juice]

You really can sneak stuff into food. My son absolutely hates Avocados. I made him some Chocolate Pudding made with Carob, Avocado, Dates, Honey, and a bit of seasalt. He loves it. He wanted to help me make it and I didn't let him because I thought he would not like it if he knew. Finally I told him and he is fine with it. He likes the stuff so much he says..."well, I normally hate avocado but I like it in the pudding"