Can a child drink too much nut milk?

[Kris21]

I have searched the forum but was unable to find the answer to my problem. I am transitioning my 3 year old to raw foods, but he LOVES milk, and I have recently learned that cows milk isn't good for you! I have given my son nut milk and he seems to like it, so my real question is, how much nut milk is too much!? If I let him he would drink an entire gallon of cows milk in one day!! He loves loves loves it!!!

[Eva]

I don't know the answer to that -- but I do know that my stepkids love nut milk and would drink quite a bit when I made it. They LOVE nut milk with avocado pureed. Mmmm.

I think, as with anything else, you just have to keep a watchful eye and notice if your child doesn't find it as appealing. It doesn't have casein in it (the opiate-like substance in cow's milk nature created to make baby cows addicted but does the same to humans), so he probably won't act like he's addicted and wants it all the time. In fact, he may go through a bit of a detox as he's getting "off" the cow's milk.

I hope that helps. :)

[Zaphirah]

Personally, I would let him drink as much as he wants-unless you notice any adverse reactions (such as distended tummy, constipation, tummy ache, etc.) I will tell you , as a word of caution, that when my dd was 2 yo she LOVED cashews. She ate them constantly-so much that the cashews stained her teeth, altho she was brushing regularly. We took her off cashews for a few weeks and the yellow color went away eventually. Now she can eat them but not in very large portions. :cool:

[iamacranberry]

Well given the chance, my little 4-year-old cousin would probably eat chocolate all day...and have no side effects. I don't think that's a wise answer to the question. I'd use common sense and try to keep the nut milk consumption within reason...eg, don't go too far over the child's recommended intake of fat, calories, etc.

[souldanzer]

It doesn't have casein in it (the opiate-like substance in cow's milk nature created to make baby cows addicted but does the same to humans), :)

May I ask where you learned this? Just curious as this is the first time I hear that casein is addictive and the milk issue is something I'm interested in.

Souldanzer :)

[juliebove]

I'm thinking a gallon of anything liquid is too much for a child. Pediatricians used to recommend limiting fruit juice because the child would fill up on it and not get the fiber and other things they needed from the whole foods. But now I've read they no longer do recommend that. If I were you I would switch drinks between water, nut milk and fruit and or vegetable juice. I used to give my daughter carrot juice.

[juliebove]

May I ask where you learned this? Just curious as this is the first time I hear that casein is addictive and the milk issue is something I'm interested in.

Souldanzer :)


I don't believe that. I never liked milk. Milk does contain tryptophan and that can make you sleepy. That's why the warm milk at bed thing.

[Kris21]

Thanks for all the replies! He doesn't really drink a gallon of milk a day. He definetely would if I let him! lol! It's more like 30 oz. of organic skim milk a day. If he drank the same amount of nut milk, would that be too much fat in his diet? Thanks again for the responses! :D

[Eva]

May I ask where you learned this? Just curious as this is the first time I hear that casein is addictive and the milk issue is something I'm interested in.

Souldanzer :)
I think I first read about this in The China Study, but I'm not 100% sure. I looked for info in several books and online resources when my husband and I were discussing one of the kids having a cold ALL the time and the connection between that and dairy. If you do a quick web search for "casein" and "milk" or "casein" "addict", something like that, you'll find loads of information. Here is one article I quickly found (http://www.vegsource.com/articles2/barnard_food_seduction.htm).

[Eva]

Thanks for all the replies! He doesn't really drink a gallon of milk a day. He definetely would if I let him! lol! It's more like 30 oz. of organic skim milk a day. If he drank the same amount of nut milk, would that be too much fat in his diet? Thanks again for the responses! :D

Maybe it would -- but fat in diet varies from person to person. Fat is not just fat when it is in the form of raw, healthy foods. It's not going to clog his arteries or give him the same problems that animal fat would. I think if he's eating mostly raw food and not getting processed food, he will probably let you know if he doesn't want the nut milk or has had too much.

[souldanzer]

Thanks for the reference, Eva. I've started reading up on it.
I have read the China Study and don't remember the author mentioning anything about casein being addictive, though.

Souldanzer :)

[Eva]

I could be wrong about that and the book is in storage, so I can't grab it and have a look. I know I read it somewhere credible -- I usually expect that the things I read in books or on the internet are not always written in the spirit of truth.

But I do distinctly remember that I read it in a book where I trusted the author did not have foul motives -- that's why I figured The China Study! After I read it, I pored over the internet looking to see if I could find more information to understand the concept better. Pretty interesting stuff.

[Inca_faerie]

Well given the chance, my little 4-year-old cousin would probably eat chocolate all day...and have no side effects. I don't think that's a wise answer to the question. I'd use common sense and try to keep the nut milk consumption within reason...eg, don't go too far over the child's recommended intake of fat, calories, etc.

I agree. High calories (whether from juice or fats) in the form of liquids arent a good idea for a little one. Depending on how thick you make the nutmilk, man that stuff can pack a ton of fat. I know some people disagree but even if it's raw it can still pack on the pounds.

[Zaphirah]

I totally disagree. I think little bodies intuitively know what they want. I'm thinking of Segei craving and drinking sesame milk by the gallon after he broke his collar bone. You little one may just have a deficit that he needs to fulfill right now.

Maybe his body knows that it's about to go thru a growth spurt and needs lots of extra calories to do that. I don't know. Like I said-I wouldn't worry about it unless you see some adverse results.

and as far as the cow's milk goes...I don't know much but I DO KNOW that casein can act like an opiate. My ASD son drank a gallon of milk a day. He would STEAL milk/cheese when we weren't looking. His behavior was violent and irradict. I took him off milk and met with a DAN dr who explained that milk caisein and gluten act like an opiate in the brain. My ds was just trying to get his fix.

He is now 90-98% cured of ASD-as long as he remains gf/cf and takes his med. (we are going to have him go 100% and see if we can get him off his med in the next couple of weeks.)

[Raw Angel Mom]

I would let him drink the milk too but will BUY ONLY ORGANIC MILK. There are hormone and dangerous substance in dairy product. But i will try to introduce him to smoothies, hopping he will let go the dairy product.

My daughter soon to be 3, doesn't do well at all with dairy, it constipates her. I was supplementing her at first with organic formula because i wasn't producing enough milk, the sooner she didn't have to supplement the better she did. She is only a raw baby now and is doing very well and is way taller then most children. I still nurse her but she has about 3-4 oz of my milk only daily, she mainly get her nutriments from raw food.

Try this recipe with your son.

Get some hemps seeds, frozen ORGANIC strawberry, and filter water.

1/4 cup of hemp seeds
1 cup of frozen strawberry
1 1/4 cup of water
5 banana

Blend everything until smooth. This is rich in ommega 3, 6 and 9 and also contain the nutriments of the fruits. I now add one big table spoon of soaked chia seed in it, which add extra nutriment.

This taste yummy and it might do the trick for your child. Cow milk is addictive because it contains a natural substance in it to make the baby cow drink it. The same substance is present in a mother milk.

As soon as he lets go the cow milk, you will see an amazing improvement with his immune system and even digestion.

[Eva]

I totally disagree. I think little bodies intuitively know what they want. I'm thinking of Segei craving and drinking sesame milk by the gallon after he broke his collar bone. You little one may just have a deficit that he needs to fulfill right now.


On a side note, I also read about this in Raw Family.

When I broke my collarbone a few years back, I was on a lot of pain killers at the time (also had a lot of damage to my face, broken leg, broken arm, lots of bruising, etc.) and probably did not know when I should have felt pain. As a result, I moved around more than I should have and my collar bone is forever crooked.

If I had it to do over again, I would have not been on pain meds and listened to my body. I haven't taken ANY pain meds or anything since I went raw! :) :)

My point is -- I wholeheartedly believe that when we are 100% raw, our bodies will tell us what we need or don't need. It's when we stray, that opiates like casein and things like caffeine, hormones, etc. start influencing our cravings so that we really are too clouded to know what we NEED.

[Zaphirah]

high-five Eva! :cool:

[Eva]

Well given the chance, my little 4-year-old cousin would probably eat chocolate all day...and have no side effects. I don't think that's a wise answer to the question. I'd use common sense and try to keep the nut milk consumption within reason...eg, don't go too far over the child's recommended intake of fat, calories, etc.

Chocolate has addictive substances too, so this may not be the best comparison. There is even plenty of chatter out there that the cacao nibs we order -- even from "raw" vendors -- must be fermented/heated to the point they are not raw. A child's addiction to something like this is not like wanting nut milk or apples or bananas.

[Eva]

high-five Eva! :cool:

You're funny. Yeah! High fives all around. Go Raw! LOL.

[Raw Angel Mom]

I would like to add that in order for our body to create craving, it needs to have been exposed to that food first. For instance, if Sergei would never eat sesame seed or sesame milk before, his body wouldn't be able to generate the craving.

The more i read about the dairy, the more i absolutely don't want my daughter to drink that. I said i would let him drink the milk but in truth, i would do everything i can to find the food to provide him with more nutriment.

Perhaps trying to make a seed milk versus the nut one (hemp seed, sesame, sunflower or pumkin). I know if your child is up with the smoothies recipe that i gave you, he will be having a lot more nutriment then that milk.

See a place that i found on the internet.
http://www.gremlinproductions.ca/hempseed.htm

HEMP HEARTS (SHELLED HEMP SEED) IN COMPARISON WITH OTHER FOODS

*Contains more required amino acids (proteins) than milk, meat or eggs.
*Is a complete protein source--much more balanced & digestible than Soy products.
*Contains about 47% oil, 78% of which is omega 3 & 6--the essential fats.
*Contains all the essential or omega fats required for human health.
*Contains several times more omega 3 essential fat than any fish.
*Provides more energy than energy bars--without their sugar and with much less saturated fat.
*Is suitable for those unable to eat gluten, sugar, milk, nuts & meat.
*Is perfect for those troubled with constipation and for those avoiding carbohydrates.
*A 42 g serving (4 tbsp) contains 240 cal energy from 15 g protein, 15 g polyunsaturated fats ( 11.4 g omega 6 & 3.6 g omega 3), 2.7 g mono-unsaturated fats, 2.1 g saturated fats, 2.5 g fiber, 4.5 g carbohydrates, 2 mg iron, 31 mg calcium, 3.8 mg sodium, 3.8 mg vitamin E, 956 IU vitamin D, .42 mg vitamin C, .05 mg vitamin B6, .14 mg vitamin B2, .58 mg vitamin B1, 1.68 IU vitamin A.
*Every lot can be traced to its source and is laboratory tested to guarantee the absence of contaminants.

Beware of Hemp Protein and Hemp Flour. These competing products are made by grinding the wastes which remain after the valuable oil has been extracted from whole hemp seeds. They are mostly shells.

CLINICAL STUDIES SUPPORT THE USE OF HEMP HEARTS (SHELLED HEMP SEEDS)

[iamacranberry]

Chocolate has addictive substances too, so this may not be the best comparison. There is even plenty of chatter out there that the cacao nibs we order -- even from "raw" vendors -- must be fermented/heated to the point they are not raw. A child's addiction to something like this is not like wanting nut milk or apples or bananas.

I beg to differ. A number of raw foods contain equally addictive compounds. Not to mention that humans, which are nearly genetically identical to frugivorous apes, aren't meant to digest large quantities of nuts. You just wouldn't find that in nature.

[coco]

i think a good rule of thumb is to only consume the amount of nuts or seeds that you could harvest and shell yourself in one sitting. seems to me that they might be tedious to shell for a reason...
of course, there is a large jar of seed pate in my fridge right now so i am not too good to break that rule myself! ha ha.

[Eva]

Yeah I got it with the ideas about nuts iamacranberry and coco (I even blogged about it here http://readysethealthy.blogspot.com/2008/08/nuts-vs-fruits.html)
BUT the fact is that her child has 1/ Been exposed to large quantities of animal milk and 2/ Has not been eating natural food for life.

Sometimes, we crave things for different reasons. When a person has not been eating from the garden for their whole life, it takes different things to get back to square 1. You just can't perfectly compare a small child who has been drinking cow's milk to someone living in the jungle, grabbing and shelling their own nuts.

For me to get back to square 1, there have been times that I craved a LOT of fat and times that I craved NO fat and times that it has been in between. I'm still not at square 1. I still have detox sometimes and feel like a whole layer of crap is gone when I'm done.

It's a good thing I didn't avoid the temporary high-fat cleansing times because someone told me to trust something more than my body.

[iamacranberry]

I would disagree that consuming high fat foods would in any way aid in the body's process of detoxification.

[Eva]

I beg to differ. A number of raw foods contain equally addictive compounds. Not to mention that humans, which are nearly genetically identical to frugivorous apes, aren't meant to digest large quantities of nuts. You just wouldn't find that in nature.

I respect that we have differening opinions. I have never found any fruit or veggie without processing, however, that has been even 1/100 as addictive or damaging to some people as cacao. They don't have caffeine or theobromine or anything else that ends in -ine.

My comparison was in this way, so please don't forget what I actually suggested, which was:

A child's addiction to something like this is not like wanting nut milk or apples or bananas.

[Eva]

I would disagree that consuming high fat foods would in any way aid in the body's process of detoxification.

OK. You know what? Just, OK. I disagree. You disagree.

I stand by what Alissa promotes, which is to have what our intelligent bodies are requesting. I stand by that my body knows what I need better than you do. I don't think this is the place or the crowd to suggest that we better all keep it low fat, though.

[iamacranberry]

The question originally asked was whether or not excessive amounts of nut milk were a good idea. I assume the poster wanted a real answer. If the only thing we're allowed to say is, "Yes, of course!" why bother to ask the question? I don't disagree with Alissa's idea that when transitioning to raw foods overnight that temporary periods of eating high fat may help reduce cravings for cooked foods. However, to maintain scientific integrity, it would be unwise of me to ignore things such as these when giving my answer to the question:

http://www.jstor.org/pss/3702731
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=940CE5DB163AF932A1575AC0A962958260
http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/nutrition/348-141/348-141.html#L2
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21210466/
http://www.cancer.gov/clinicaltrials/results/low-fat-diet0505
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2007/October/Pages/Cancerandlowfatdiet.aspx
http://www.scientistlive.com/lab/?/Medical/2008/05/15/20397/Less_fat,_less_cancer/

These sorts of things combined with the biochemistry of our bodies lead me to believe that long-term consumption of too much fat is probably not optimal and is possibly even harmful as well.

[Rinda]

Perhaps trying to make a seed milk versus the nut one (hemp seed, sesame, sunflower or pumkin). I know if your child is up with the smoothies recipe that i gave you, he will be having a lot more nutriment then that milk.

See a place that i found on the internet.
http://www.gremlinproductions.ca/hempseed.htm

HEMP HEARTS (SHELLED HEMP SEED) IN COMPARISON WITH OTHER FOODS

*Contains more required amino acids (proteins) than milk, meat or eggs.
*Is a complete protein source--much more balanced & digestible than Soy products.
*Contains about 47% oil, 78% of which is omega 3 & 6--the essential fats.
*Contains all the essential or omega fats required for human health.
*Contains several times more omega 3 essential fat than any fish.
*Provides more energy than energy bars--without their sugar and with much less saturated fat.
*Is suitable for those unable to eat gluten, sugar, milk, nuts & meat.
*Is perfect for those troubled with constipation and for those avoiding carbohydrates.
*A 42 g serving (4 tbsp) contains 240 cal energy from 15 g protein, 15 g polyunsaturated fats ( 11.4 g omega 6 & 3.6 g omega 3), 2.7 g mono-unsaturated fats, 2.1 g saturated fats, 2.5 g fiber, 4.5 g carbohydrates, 2 mg iron, 31 mg calcium, 3.8 mg sodium, 3.8 mg vitamin E, 956 IU vitamin D, .42 mg vitamin C, .05 mg vitamin B6, .14 mg vitamin B2, .58 mg vitamin B1, 1.68 IU vitamin A.


Here's a little recipe that children seem to like:

Fortifying Banana Milk

Recipe Source : goneraw.com
Serving Size : 2



Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
2 cups Water
2 Bananas
1/2 cup Organic, Shelled Hemp Seeds
1 Tbs Raw Honey or Agave Nectar, if desired

1. Throw all ingredients in a blender until smooth! Enjoy with your
favourite cereal or it is also a great topping over fresh fruit! You may
choose not to include a sweetener, as it is naturally very sweet. Add more
hemp seeds if you need more of a boost ;)

Comments: I called this “Fortifying Banana Milk” because of the protein
filled hemp seeds. This is an excellent milk to have with raw cereal or
grawnola. A great morning boost and so quick & easy!


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[Rinda]

Yeah I got it with the ideas about nuts iamacranberry and coco (I even blogged about it here http://readysethealthy.blogspot.com/2008/08/nuts-vs-fruits.html)


Interesting.....your blog about that topic. My husband has mentioned this idea a number of times too. He still goes on eating his fair share of nuts though. He's very thin and I think he hopes to put weight on with them.

[rawstrength]

Overdoing nutmilk is better than overdoing dairy. I'd be willing to bet that a little too much nutmilk will be much better for your kids than small amounts of dairy.
In time I'm sure your son will want less nutmilk. Give him as much nutmilk as he wants and let the dairy craving run its course.

[kaleidoscopeeyes]

My general philosophy: you can have too much of ANYTHING.

[coco]

thanks for the recipe. i don't think i would add that extra sweetener to that myself though, the banana is sweet enough!

[Kris21]

Thanks for all the replies! Especially for the recipe for the banana milk, that definetely sounds like something my son would enjoy!
He hasn't had regular milk in 3 days! The first couple days was hard, he wouldn't even drink the nut milk and chose water instead! :D Still struggling but he seems to be forgetting about regular milk, atleast until he goes to school and all the other kids are drinking it, that's the hardest part of having your child go raw!
I wish I knew how bad dairy milk was before he was born! :eek:

[firefaery]

Thanks for the reference, Eva. I've started reading up on it.
I have read the China Study and don't remember the author mentioning anything about casein being addictive, though.

Souldanzer :)

It *can* be addictive if you are allergic to it. It is not inherently addictive. It binds to the opiode receptors in the brain *IF* it leaks through the gut. This is not the case for everyone.

Cows are not addicted to it. It is their biological norm. Just like breastmilk, which babies are not addicted to either. ;)

[coco]

Just like breastmilk, which babies are not addicted to either. ;)

are you sure? could you tell my little girl that?:D

[firefaery]

are you sure? could you tell my little girl that?:D

absolutely :p She's perfect and looking to get exactly what she needs!!

[coco]

absolutely :p She's perfect and looking to get exactly what she needs!!

and how! she booby crazy this girl.

[Eva]

and how! she booby crazy this girl.

LOL, you two are cracking me up. (Sorry but) this gave me a funny picture in my mind. Sheesh, I'm planning to conceive next year, so I guess it will be either more or less funny soon enough! ;)

[Kris21]

Can anyone give me a really good book or website to read about the harmful effects of milk/dairy? My son is now back on milk because his dad freaked out about it! Since I don't know very much information about it it was very hard to plea my case. He doesn't understand how his bones can grow without milk. Any suggestions would be great!!! ThX!

[firefaery]

Anything by Joel Fuhrman or Don't Drink Your Milk!

[Stina]

Also, please consider doing a variety of nut/seeds milks to minimize allergy risks.

[iamacranberry]

The American Heart Association, which is respected among even the medical community, approves a vegan diet for all stages of life--meaning from infancy to the elderly years.