vegan vixen - please reply!

[ANIMLOVER]

Hi Vixen!

I read your post in my thread about Fat in the raw food diet.

I am VERY curious, please SHARE!

I read that you are not good consuming fat and that you MUST keep your intake VERY low if not obsolete.

Please let me know what you eat in a few typical days?
Do you ever crave FAt (nuts/avo's)
How do you make a good tasting/textured salad dressing?
What about desserts? (please don't just say fresh fruit)

Do you have a favorite cookbook where you can eat the meals with no problem (no fat)

I've been trying to eat VERy simply - you can check out my journal, BUT I cannot stop eating and am consuming LOTS LOTS LOTS of food!
I am constantly fighting my cravings for NUTS!

I do make recipes at times, although since I'm TRYING to cut out grains my "diet" has become MORE simple!
When I make a recipe I try to use 1/2 the fats it suggests, this worked well with "breads"

I LOVe flax crackers and read somewhere that was cannot digest the seed. How do you do eating FLAX crackers (whole)?
WE do soak our crackers so I'm wondering if we digest them and assimilate the Fat?

PLEASE SHARE!!
__________________

[Alissa]

Hi Animlover, obviously im not vegan vixan but i have to butt in here because we have this whole thread going on about fats and some other ones addressing this issue.

I just want to tell you that veganvixan does not have a gallbladder so that is why she really has to limit fats, but ill let her get into that.
I just need to ask you what is the obsession with fats?

BUT I cannot stop eating and am consuming LOTS LOTS LOTS of food!
This should be a clue to you that you need to eat fats. Fats are what fill you up. If your not eating any your going to get hungry.
Why do you think plant fats are going to make you fat?
When you limit fats in your diet to the point of zero or very low it does not mean you will lose weight. You could however cause some serious problems while raw and having such a low fat intake. Why is this such an issue?
Best,
Alissa

[angelandarose]

I have also been told a balance of fats in the diet helps shut of that censor in the brain that says EAT EAT EAT. Without fats we just don't know when to stop.

Don't fear the Fat, it is not the enemy. ;)


Love,
Angie

[VeganVixen]

I dont have a gallbladder ,so I have trouble with fats but Ill tell you how I handle it

hey LOL I your pm's -its funny WERE BOTH picking each others brains at the same time!!!!

right now I eat A LOT like 3 medium salads (if not 4 :D ) for a typical meal , I DO splash a bit of olive oil on my salads (like a tbs) with rice wine vinegar and balsalmic vinegar -but you could do more ,youre an athlete! NOW sometimes I do have cravings ,then a just cut up some avocado and put it on top of my salads -but RARELY,again avos SHOULD be fine for an athlete like yourself! the last time I had nuts was a month ago at whole foods (a palmfull of raw pistachios -the only reason I had them was b/c they were so green ,and that small amount didnt hurt me ,but I was FULL) and before that was in december .......I eat salads ,nori wraps ,miso (which has a little fat in it ,but its cultured and SUCH a small amount) and FRUIT -I LOVE FRUIT!!!

Flaxseeds arent as bad (Ive had them 2 time this year) ,they seem to be like fiber and dont digest ,but they taste strange so I prefer not to eat them.....AND for dessert -you guessed it-fruit (sorry) , and raw fruit ice cream!!!!!

I also eat dates/dried figs every now and then -but when I do I eat them as lunch ,and thats the only meal I have ,lol I eat up to 15 dates!!!!!!!!!

hmmm ,I have 3 raw food books -alissa's(I loaned it to a freind a while ago) , rhio's and julianno's - they are all great ,but I find myself not using them or when I do I make the low fat dips for raw veggies and I convert the recipes to low or no fat -it works for me ,I have some of the recipes on this site ,Ill find them ,but wqith these you could add more oil and/or avo -your an athlete!!!

ALSO ,you said you had problems with nuts , are you combining them with fruit -THAT can sometimes cause indegestion....

Its been said b4 , I will say it again - for newbies , heavier dishes are comon , but as you get more raw your body wants lighter foods !

[VeganVixen]

lol ,I tried to write fast so I bet I made too many typos to count

btw Ill probably do the 10 DAY MC!!!

[VeganVixen]

yes I agree with everyone above -I am a special case!!!!

REALLY low fat diets can CREATE gallstones ,NOTHING you want to go through!!!

and raw fats are different than cooked fats ,you seem to be really thin - I really wouldnt worry about it ,trust me you dont want to put yourself through the HELL of 2-3% fat intake -being RAW is fine ,and maybe you should try eating ONE type of fat and ditching the nuts -try avo's they are a GREAT source of fat ,nuts (too me) are a type of food that would normally NOT be unshelled lying in piles ,unlike avo's -so try that ? seems like nuts are your problem ,JUST STOP BUYING NUTS IF THATS YOUR PROBLEM-replace them with avo's .IMO its just WAY too easy to not keep track of all these nuts when there in front of you so reserve them for "outings" like when you go to the store ,buy a little bag as a treat (and raw pistachios are my favorite type of nuts ,theyre GREEN -which IMO makes them more valuable in terms of nutrients)


like I said try avo's as your soul fat source ,they are a WHOLE good fat ,and even though I cant go bonkers on them ,when I do eat a little they dont effect my energy or metabolism the way nuts do ...BUT if I was to eat them often I would have my returning med. problems -and I DONT WANT THOSE :eek:

lol ,if your wondering why I told you about "my typical day" is b/c I just LOVE giving info ,maybe you can take *some* things from my way of eating and blend them into your lifesyle , I wouldnt follow my diet to a ''Tee '' -and if you think that eating such LITTLE fat makes you super skinny ,well Im NOT -you (while eating all these fats ) are less than Ill ever be ,lol! not that Im overeweight or anything....

[Rawkinlocs]

...and...to add to what Alissa said, this really could/should have been a PM to VeganVixen.

[VeganVixen]

lol rawkinlocs , sorry I guess this thread messed up the forum "feng shui" - animlover was having a bit of trouble with her p'ming......Animlover ,do you have Alissa's book ? It has GREAT information in it! Also ANYONE out there who DOES NOT have trouble digesting/metabolizing/whatever bodily function with fat (like I do , since AGAIN I have no gallbladder -and am a SPECIAL CASE), DONT give it up - it IS a part of a balanced diet ,and great for hair and skin ;)

[VeganVixen]

Also ,I want to stress to you (once again) the importance of plant fats ........I will give you (and anybody else out there with the same q's) an example -horses!

Okay , my horse (is not being ridden ,and is as round as a barrel) he is eating hay , LOTS of grass and low protein oats ,a scoop a day.....he is overweigt and out of shape (I NEED to get working with him -but its INSANELY hot) however when he is getting worked ,he gets a grain with a higher plant fat and protein percentage grain ,because he needs it! He becomes very muscular ,has MUCH less fat and has a better luster -you (once again )are an athlete ,and although nuts from what I can tell is the majority of your fat source and are making you feel bad) might not be great for YOUR body type ,you work out alot ,and need fats like my horse ,especially when in a training program(I need fats ,and work them in where I can) so (once again) why not have GREEN ,alive fats (rich in helpful oils) like from AVOCADOS ;)

[VeganVixen]

lol ,I feel like Im just repeating myself over ,and over ,and.......


I need sleep! :p

[Sweet lips]

From Sweet lips - I do not have a gall bladder nor do I have appendix and yes, I can eat fat sooo I say this to say EVERYONE , I repeat, EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT IN HOW THEIR BODIES PERFORM.

To You Animlover - I applaud your desire to research the topic of fat in the raw lifestyle, however, this is thread number 3, and unfortunatley, you are begining to sound a tad bit obessive. Now, I could be wrong, and clearly do not intend to offend you, but I am offended - because as a member of this very supportive board, there are people who are just getting by, trying to hang in there, wanting to find something that will allow them to eat as needed until their bodies become charged in this lifelstyle and they no longer have the desire, and have obtained the knowledge to necessary to plan effectively for their body types and lifestyle, and this constant barange of one topic does not assist them in their journey. ( And Vegan Vixan - save your comment -okay :rolleyes: ) Please be mindful as to how, and only to me, you are sounding. Be mindful, that actually you have found a place that addresses these very well, and even you mentioned it - Dr. Doug Graham's site, and they too have a message board.

Let me share a couple of things from you so that you can clearly understand where I am coming from:

I had the privilege of meeting Doug Graham here in Maryland in Feb. He did a workshop for us, and spent quite a bit of time in my African American Community. As you may research, you will find that my community has the highest incidents of the deadlies, diabetes, heart disease and stroke, and 2nd in cancers. It is thought that our diet is responsible for this among other factors. Him, being informed and sensitive to our community, did not start his discourse on eating an 80-10-10, but describe how to transition to a plant based diet, eating as one's body needed - he understood, that yes, cooked fat we consumed is killing us, but wisley decided as to how we needed to move forward to plant based, and then ultimatley to raw.

My second comment deals with my first attempt to go 100% raw, I had a very healthy cooked food diet - with some things that needed to be removed, nevertheless, it was okay. However, I went raw, and I was a member of another board, having a daily accountability - saw remarkable results and for the first time in 11 years, my blood sugar on raw normalized, as diabetes is a disease of too much fat in the body - and cooked fat is the culprit, swelling in my feet was gone, I was able to rest - and I suffer from hypothyroidism, having cancer in my 20's and having to have my galnd removed, and also having my gall bladder removed, which is a double whammy in life according to those who practice traditional medicine and nutrition, and a host of wonderful things were happening, until the day, and "expert", called me out on the board and told me that I WAS EATING WAY TOO MUCH FAT, and that avocado's were just FAT, FAT, FAT. Now, I am new to this, and she was an expert and I got discouraged by trying to follow her advice, and guess what I gave up, it all of the sudden got hard for me, and then guess what, my blood sugar went back up, my feet started swelling again, all because of an expert. Be mindful Sweetie, as we all are so different, and you have more knowledge than some, and therefore, you may be viewed as an expert, and thus this contining discussion, especially have Alissa so graciously provided you with wonderful information, could cause your sister or brother on this board in the same place I was to stumble. Be mindful of others.

[Veganmama]

Can i just quietly add that i too am starting to feel real uncomfortable with all the talk of Fat being bad. I come to this board as it's usually a safe haven from that kind of talk. I totally understand the points you are making about fats but i in no way believe raw fats are bad and am really feeling alot of old "issues" coming up hearing Fat being discussed in such a negetive way so often now on this board.

[Revvell]

I have no issues with fat and I still agree with Rawkinlocs about 3 threads concerning it.

Animlver ~ you say you enjoy being controversial. That sounds to me as though you are coming from ego. Please refrain. That's not what this board is about or needs. Opinions are great and sometimes they do raise some controversy yet, this board is about support and the exchange of information.

btw ~ a friend and I were discussing this the other day and in one of your threads you say you wish to get down to 118. You are a runner and bodybuilder if I remember correctly? When I lifted, I went from 120 to 135 AS a vegetarian and I was CUT at 5'6". Muscle weighs more than fat.

Please consider focusing your energies on how good you feel; how good you look and enjoy your food.

Revvell

[angelandarose]

When I lifted, I went from 120 to 135 AS a vegetarian and I was CUT at 5'6". Muscle weighs more than fat.

Please consider focusing your energies on how good you feel; how good you look and enjoy your food.

Revvell


YES I agree! I was taught to use the old faithful *pants-O-meter* to gage my progress and not the scale. While lifting weights you WILL gain muscle mass and muscle always weighs more than fat.

So I say listen to your body more do what FEELS GOOD to you on a 'personal level'. Test, try, play and tweak your program till it FEELS GOOD to you!

Most importantly HAVE FUN WITH ALL THIS. There are no strict rules anywhere to eating RAW! :D


Love,
Angie

[ANIMLOVER]

Wow
Great replies
I wanted to PM Vixen, but did not know how, Sorry
Alisssa, I e-mailed you, hope you take some of your busy time to respond.
Vixen, thank you for the advice, I am actually eating about 1/2 an avo daily for the past 4 days!
If some of you remember my first few posts, you'll see that I had issues when I tried 100% RAW a few months ago, this is why I am concerned. My active lifestyle has not changed in years, from vegan to raw, but my muscle to fat ratio did.
I understand this is supposed to be a supportive and safe site for us, but I hope that doesn't mean we cannot question?
Revvel, I think it was you who said this seems like its coming from ego not confusion. What does that mean?
This is a new lifestyle for me, I have spend months researching it B4 buying into it. I HAVE QUESTIONS OK?
In my research I stumbled across ALissa's book and DVD, they were the first ones I bought. I have also been reading other minds of RAW and how to proceed.
I know nothing is perfect and there is no perfect raw diet (lifestyle if you want to argue semantics). I just want to do it the best for ME from the start.
I now know that many here are coming from a SAD background. That MUST be hard. I was wrong in my assumption that most, if not all of us were cooked vegans B4. It just seems like a natural progression
vegetarian
vegan
raw
I was wrong. I come from this progression. 100% raw is difficult for me with all the temptation, I cannot imagine how difficult the temptation is for SAD eaters.
My last question is:
Where can someone go to learn more and question more. Once we are all past the transition stage and we want to refine the "lifestyle" where do we go?
Alissa - maybe a new book!?
Please don't get me wrong I LOVE this forum.
(this forum just may not love me!! lol)
I love how active and supportive it is. I love the fact that Alissa personally responds to the questions and controversies!
PEACE

[Revvell]

Wow

Revvel, I think it was you who said this seems like its coming from ego not confusion. What does that mean?
PEACE


Where did I say that and in what context?

You say in one of your posts you enjoy creating controversy. (paraphrasing) THAT is coming from ego. Not the same as gathering information for health reasons.

For me, as far as needing more info ~ this is sooooo simple and you seem to be making it complicated. Alissa's book pretty much says all one needs to know about the raw food lifestyle. (and yes, I understand your referral to "semantics". At one time, whatever someone ate was considered their diet. Recently, the word has be ab-used to mean to lose weight). If you feel the need for more info, might I suggest ~ if you don't already have them, the eBooks from Storm and Jinjee. There are a ton of other books out there also with wide ranging information. For me, after the first few weeks, I just eat simple and a wide range of foods.

Oh, just thought of something ~ at one time, I use to read books on meditation. A LOT of books on meditation. I had all KINDS of information on meditation. I could tell you everything ABOUT meditation yet, I didn't know anything about meditation. Why? I wasn't meditating.

One can read all they want about raw foods, the raw food lifestyle, etc. yet, until they eat raw they really KNOW nothing. Gathering information isn't the same as having the experience.

One can read about the Grand Canyon yet, until one has been there and experienced it .....

Revvell

[RawTruth]

Animlover, I am joining in to strongly agree with SweetLip's wonderfully worded post. I am glad some of the "elders" on the board have taken the time to try to help you so that your posts can start becoming more grounded in the culture that exists here.

She was very careful to take the time to compose an informative, supportive post explaining to you that what you say here has impact on other people. Yet, your reply focused just on yourself. That is an example of ego.

One of the obligations we have in belonging to a support group (which this is) is that we must think of our impact on others before we speak. This doesn't mean we can't ask for others' experience and knowledge; it's just being aware that there are literally hundreds of people of vastly varying circumstances reading what we write.

You say that you are just trying to get some information and that you don't know where else to get it, but, as Revvell has said, there are so very many sources out there. Many of us have used them and you can, too. Since you are so obsessed about fat and so enamored of Doug Graham, why don't you just go to his board for information ... or just email him directly. Then, perhaps, when you're on this forum, you might back away from being controversial (which you say you love -- and which draws attention to you = ego).

Disagreements of opinion naturally arise between people, and mature people can handle that with respect and communication. However, stirring up controversy detracts from the effectiveness of this board and drains the positive energy that many people (including the owner) have worked hard to create here. I hope that you start thinking of the others here before any one else's time and effort gets put into what is your own personal journey and obligation.

Revvell's last post had terrific advice implicit in it, but I'll add on a bit more explicitly -- just do it Alissa's way 100% for 6 months, consciously erase the fat/protein/carb/food group mentality from your brain, focus on the long-term rather than the short, throw away your scales -- stop weighing yourself (!!) since focusing on your weight can be a sure path to obsession, and try to accept yourself as a whole person, a whole entire package who is so much more than numbers on a scale!!

[Sweet lips]

Well said all

VeganMama - thank you for you candid post. I do so hope we have aligned your fears and that you will continue on. I am in midst of my journey, by no means am I an expert, but I got some time under my belt, so if you are unsure of something, please ask it - and please close this day down with a postive from all this - we are all on this journey, together.

It is nothing wrong at all by seeking advice and doing research, nothing in the least, but to anyone exercise caution to avoid confusion - actually, ask the question, will what I do today, what I say today, what I am today, make an impact on someone's life within the next 5 years -ummmm, even I must close the lips and think about that one :D Have fun on me today y'all - and of course as usual and I mean it - be blessed!

[RawTruth]

ask the question, will what I do today, what I say today, what I am today, make an impact on someone's life within the next 5 yearsWhat you didn't add (being the tactful woman you are) is -- if not, then close your mouth an get busy! :D

Thank you, this is just perfect for me today. Thanks, SL

[Sweet lips]

Raw Truth - you make me smile and this time I am rotflmbo. Yes, you are so right.

[VeganVixen]

"( And Vegan Vixan - save your comment -okay ) "


huh?