Poorly broken fast, restarting cleanse...

[SweetTangerine]

I just got done doing a ten day master cleanse and broke my fast very improperly. I started with juice for half a day and then just dove right into eating anything I wanted (yeah I knew it was a bad idea at the time. :( I just lost control) I went back on the cleanse after four days of eating and feeling sick and already am feel much much better. So with starting this new cleanse am I pretty much on day one again? Also is this a dangerous thing to do?

[Aleesha Sattva]

dangerous... no

a good idea... no

over time, you will break your fasts healthier. it's sooooo common for people to not break them well... i'm still learning and i do a lot of fasting. just remember to read up on breaking fasts and plan ahead. give yourself a set "i will drink this for this long, then add in this food and then drink this and then eat this..." it may help.

and above all... be kind to yourself... this is a learning process and your body will heal. it already is! (((hugs)))

[Raine]

I just got done doing a ten day master cleanse and broke my fast very improperly. I started with juice for half a day and then just dove right into eating anything I wanted (yeah I knew it was a bad idea at the time. :( I just lost control) I went back on the cleanse after four days of eating and feeling sick and already am feel much much better. So with starting this new cleanse am I pretty much on day one again? Also is this a dangerous thing to do?

Allison - chalk this up to a learning experience that most all of us have gone through at least once. The important thing is that you learned a very vital lesson about breaking a fast properly at the beginning of your adventures. Ideally, you should refeed with healthy and/or raw foods for the same time in which you fasted rather than jumping right back in.

Aleesha - I shall have to respectfully disagree with you. Yes, it can be dangerous to break a fast in this way. If someone were on a fast for several days and then delved right into high fat foods, junk foods, meats, etc., it can put the body into a very precarious situation with several organs going into shock.

The following post is from Chrisb1 who is an esteemed fasting expert on the water fasting board at www.CureZone.com:

Hygienic System Vol III......

"The care that must be exercised in breaking a fast is in proportion to the length of the fast and to the general condition of the fasting individual. The approved plan is to break the fast on liquid food, using for this purpose fruit juice, or tomato juice, or watermelon juice, or vegetable broths. Fruit juice--usually orange juice--is used most often.

Orange juice, grapefruit juice, or fresh tomato juice are excellent with which to break a fast. Watermelon juice or the juice of the fresh pineapple or of fresh grapes may also be used. A half a glass may be given at the start. After an hour, another half glass may be given. Juice may be given every hour the first day. The second day a whole glass of juice every two hours may be employed. On the third and fourth days give the whole orange or grapefruit and on the fifth day other foods may be added. Large meals should not be attempted in less than a week. These instructions are for the long fast. A short fast requires less care in breaking and is usually followed for several days by an eliminating diet."

This reference should also be extremely helpful in the correct way of breaking a fast.

http://www.soilandhealth.org/02/0201hyglibcat/020127shelton.III/020127.ch30.htm

[SweetTangerine]

Thanks to both of you for your advice, and yes definently a lesson well learned. I don't feel like I did any major damage and I am going to break properly this time. Raine: I'll check out the website... and Aleesha: you are right, setting up a schedule would be very helpful for me (and thanks for the hug ::hugs back::)

[Aleesha Sattva]

Raine,

You and I don't agree on a lot of things and I respect that... but to be honest... she's alive and well. Going back into a fast and cleansing her body is not a bad thing in my opinion... and that's what I'm sharing... my opinion.

Allison is welcome to do as she wishes... it's her body.

(((hugs))) Allison... (((hugs)))

[Raine]

Raine,

You and I don't agree on a lot of things and I respect that... but to be honest... she's alive and well. Going back into a fast and cleansing her body is not a bad thing in my opinion... and that's what I'm sharing... my opinion.

Allison is welcome to do as she wishes... it's her body.

Yes, Allison is ok this time and it's her body and if she wants to throw it off a bridge she can. My concern with your reply wasn't just for Allison's sake but for the many people that simply lurk on these boards and don't contribute to the postings.

If someone read that Allison broke her fast in a less than ideal way and then saw your posting stating it was NOT dangerous to do this, it is conceivable that a reader could justify breaking their fast by delving face first into a huge bowl of chocolate pudding and platter of fried chicken. That caffeine, sugar and grease - not to mention the additives to the chicken - could send a body into shock that had been on a multi-day fast.

This conversation was about those souls that are looking for options to improve their health. And with volumes of data from fasting experts going back decades proving how critical it is to properly break a fast, by giving out information that it's not dangerous to break one in a dangerous way is wrong on many levels.

Have you considered what might happen if someone breaks their fast in a really bad way, ends up in the hospital and then decides to come after you legally because of your advice saying "No" it wasn't dangerous to break a fast like this?

More ridiculous and frivolous lawsuits have happened and people have won their judgements. You are in a public forum and you're giving borderline medical advice. You may not see any cause for concern, but I do and even if we are never bosom buddies, I do have genuine concern for someone's well being on a health, spiritual and financial level.

The best advice my mother ever game me was: "Never underestimate the stupidity of the person you are dealing with." Now I am by no means saying the lurking readers of the fasting board are stupid - but, there are a lot of people out there looking to make a quick buck and see nothing wrong with using the legal system to do it. Do you really want to take that chance? I hope you don't because it sounds like you have a nice life going on.

[Aleesha Sattva]

Where exactly does Allison say she jumped into a bucket of fried chicken??? Honestly Raine... it's time for us to not respond to each other on this forum...

Please understand... I have nothing further to say to you. I'm here to support people... not instill fear about what they are doing. What you are doing (in my opinion) is making people fearful of asking questions and seeking advice in fear of the response they'll get. That doesn't assist people to share their process.

I've broken many fasts in a not-so-perfect way... and yet... I'm still here... and doing just fine. I'm not giving medical advice... just simply my opinion... and I don't subscribe to the whole "being sued" because of what I'm sharing mentality. Sorry but that's not the reality I live in. I'm here to share... my opinion, my experiences... not instill fear in those around me.

[roo]

I'm curious to know what "send the body into shock" means - exactly. I broke a 27 day juice feast in a pretty bad way and while my body might have been shocked to suddenly have all that (SAD) food to deal with, it managed it without me ever feeling sick. Bloated for a few days, but never sick. I know breaking the feasts/fast in the right way is best, but I've seen many people say they haven't managed to do it and never ended up with anything other than some mild discomfort. Mild enough that it has happened to the same people more than once. I'm hoping I'm not one of those because I REALLY want to learn how to break these fasts the best way! It seems to take an incredible amount of discipline. I know all the proper steps. I just need to learn how to make myself go through them.

Raine, could you be more specific when you say the body will go into shock? Thanks!

I'm on the 3rd day of my second juice feast. I'm here reading with interest! ;)

[Raine]

I'm curious to know what "send the body into shock" means - exactly. I broke a 27 day juice feast in a pretty bad way and while my body might have been shocked to suddenly have all that (SAD) food to deal with, it managed it without me ever feeling sick. Bloated for a few days, but never sick. I know breaking the feasts/fast in the right way is best, but I've seen many people say they haven't managed to do it and never ended up with anything other than some mild discomfort. Mild enough that it has happened to the same people more than once. I'm hoping I'm not one of those because I REALLY want to learn how to break these fasts the best way! It seems to take an incredible amount of discipline. I know all the proper steps. I just need to learn how to make myself go through them.

Raine, could you be more specific when you say the body will go into shock? Thanks!

I'm on the 3rd day of my second juice feast. I'm here reading with interest! ;)

Roo - congratulations on day 3 of feast 2. Please keep in mind that I do not "feast" but I do juice fasts and water fasts. I am not able to provide you with any knowledge on incorrectly breaking a feast.

IF, by chance you are thinking of a fast, there I am able to provide feedback on that issue:

What happens if you break your fast the wrong way? When you fast your digestive tract is resting; by completion of the fast it has become very sensitive. Breaking your fast incorrectly places stress on your now sensitive digestive system and ruins most benefits from the fast itself. It is because of this sensitivity that caution is advised and this is no different from certain cautionary measures doctors advise after surgery. It might be a good idea to wait to do a fast until you're ready to conduct a proper fast which includes breaking it correctly as well.

When we take shortcuts we lose the full benefits and end up complaining that fasting doesn't work when really the problem is us - not only we do lose the benefits from the fast but we might regain weight as rapidly as we lost it. Its really in our best interests to conduct a proper fast otherwise all the pain from detox during a fast would have really been in vain.

About 2 weeks ago, a gentleman that posts to a water fast forum was bemoaning how he couldn't properly empty his bowels. It seems he went on a 10-day water fast and broke it by eating a half-pound of baked salmon.

As for case examples as to what can happen if a fast is broken incorrectly (please note these are examples from fasting practitioners who have documented works dating back decades - with particular attention to Dr. Shelton):


A naturopath in New York City broke the fasts of a mother and daughter, who had been fasting sixteen and thirteen days respectively, on chocolate candy. The gastric and intestinal acidity resulting from this caused great distress throughout the body. Dr. Shelton was called in on these cases, and it required four to five days of fasting to get them back into a comfortable condition. Shelton stated that he hoped to never witness again a fast broken with chocolate.

A California woman fasted 17 days under the direction of a chiropractor and worked hard during the fast. She worked for the chiropractor and he would not permit her leave from work while fasting. He broke her fast with toast and acid fruit. This woman immediately developed a case of malnutritional edema.

Dr. Wm. F. Havard records the following cases: "A young man, 24, who had suffered from chronic constipation and indigestion, fasted 27 days after reading an article in a health publication. On the 28th day he ate a meal of steak, potatoes, bread and butter and coffee. He was seized with violent vomiting spells and could not tolerate even a teaspoonful of water on the stomach. When called on the case I discovered an intense soreness of the entire abdomen and every indication of acute gastritis."

"A young man, 30, who had fasted on his own initiative for 42 days attempted to break the fast on coarse bread with the result that vomiting occurred and the stomach became so irritable that nothing could be retained. There was marked emaciation and extreme weakness and every indication for immediate nourishment."


PLEASE NOTE: These documented case studies are not scare tactics. This post is simply drafted in response to the question posed asking for specifics.

[MOTH]

It seems like (from my own experience) there is much more suffering involved when you break a water fast improperly compared to a juice fast/feast. When I juice fast and break it badly by binging on fruit, I'm sick and don't feel well for a little while, maybe a day or so, then I bounce back, feeling great. When I break a water fast improperly, I pretty much go catatonic for three days, can't do anything other then lay in bed and cry from pain and depression. (and that was on fruit - when it happened)

[Raine]

Thank you for relating your experiences Moth.

I was quite worried about you a couple weeks ago when you were on your last water fast. When you stopped posting on CZ, I was glad you were posting here and ok. You know, some of us on CZ worry when someone disappears from posting! If you think you're fast breaking was bad, can you just imagine Mr. Magayakawhatever who broke his with that big hunk of baked salmon?! :rolleyes:

[RawHeaven]

This message is for you Allison. I say this as a disclaimer as although I also agree with Aleesha's comments regarding "listening to your body" I do not want to be embroiled in a debate. And I will not respond if I happen to be entered into one.

I'm merely responding to share my personal experience.

I gathered a lot of data before I delved into fasting in 2007. This included researching Herbert Shelton's work among others. I started with a 30 day master cleanse and have probably been on the MC 4 or 5 times with extensive time frames. I've also completed extensive water and juice fasts. So what has this got to do with properly breaking a fast? I do not think I've ever "properly" broken a fast and I faired just fine. What I mean by that is I sometimes ate solid food (in small amounts) on the first day post cleanse. I personally believe and this is based on my own body. What I believe is that the cleaner your system becomes and the longer you're Raw, well you begin to write your own script regarding your body and overall health. What I mean by this is I was not impacted whatsoever by eating some (healthy raw) fats and other non recommended food items during the post fast stages. No, it was not ideal to do this, but I think we start to move in different territory as raw foodists. Perhaps the fasting protocol of old has been partly based on SAD thinking as well and focuses on how someone who is very toxic and is not living consciously might respond to a fast. Just food for thought - no pun intended. I do however think the danger enters in when you get into a right or wrong mentality when it comes to your body and your health. Only you know what is absolutely the best route to take with your own body. Fear is not a way to get there. But merely trusting, having faith and paying attention to your body's signals. Again this is my opinion only.

In your case Allison, because you became ill breaking the fast the way that you did, perhaps it is your body's way of telling you maybe next time try to break it a different way? Maybe juicing and gently introducing solid, digestion friendly foods. The positive in your experience is now you know what it feels like to break it that way. You have experience and it's not a big deal. :) Give yourself a big hug. This is a process and there is a lot to learn. I read a lot of self criticism in your initial post. Breaking a fast is one of the most difficult aspects of fasting. Even veteran fasters joke about not being able to always stick to the game plan. I would encourage you again just to keep listening to your body. It will always lead you in the right direction. And it might also be helpful to read as much as you can about the fasting process, if you haven't already done so. I suggest this so that you can make your own informed choices going forward. Something that has helped me stay centered during this journey to optimal health is to remember that we are our thoughts. That is what you believe, you create and manifest. If you believe that you'll always be well as you heal yourself, then you will. Always focus on the positives, keep your faith and expect the best, even when you feel crappy and lose your faith. That's especially when you want to focus on your healing intentions and goals. Fasting is not easy -- if you were able to complete it that's huge. Positive #1. Check!

And no, I don't think it's a good idea to start with another cleanse so soon. I would recommend waiting 6 weeks minimum before you cleansed or fasted again. But that's just my opinion...listen to your own inner voice and more importantly what is your body telling you?

Best wishes & peace,

Crystal

[Raine]

It's interesting to observe how much energy is being placed on justifying why one breaks a fast improperly. It rather reminds one of an alcoholic justifying why they can handle just a casual glass of wine at dinner.

It's sad yet amusing that people think they can bring their digestive system to a complete rest for 10+ days and then justify that they can then go dash out and consume a SAD meal because, hey, their body can handle it.

Break a leg, have it in a cast for a few weeks, the muscles atrophy a bit because they aren't in use. Leg heals, pop off the cast and go run a marathon. Can it be done? Sure - but why would anyone want to subject their body to that abuse? This is what a faster does when they jump from a multi-day water fast into a poorly combined meal.

For those that actually wish to work on perfecting their fasting process, God bless you and I wish you the best. For those that email me privately asking for suggestions because they don't want to deal with some of the personalities on this board, I don't mind you emailing and your private comments go no further.

[Ilse W.]

Crystal,
I appreciate that you brought up what I know for myself to be true, namely that doing a fast coming from and going back to a raw purely vegetarian diet is not the same as doing a fast when eating the SAD way. The liver sucks in whatever you put into your body after a fast. It cannot get overwhelmed by a gs or salad, but certainly will object to steak and potatoes, washed down with a glass of wine. I have done a number of colon and liver cleansing fasts in the past and never had a negative reaction from going right back to eating raw salads and vegetables. Just my experience!:)

[Aleesha Sattva]

just a quick note in allison's defense:

http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showpost.php?p=448118&postcount=9

she never once said she ate SAD after fasting.

(((Hugs to you Allison)))

[roo]

Roo - congratulations on day 3 of feast 2. Please keep in mind that I do not "feast" but I do juice fasts and water fasts. I am not able to provide you with any knowledge on incorrectly breaking a feast.

IF, by chance you are thinking of a fast, there I am able to provide feedback on that issue:

What happens if you break your fast the wrong way? When you fast your digestive tract is resting; by completion of the fast it has become very sensitive. Breaking your fast incorrectly places stress on your now sensitive digestive system and ruins most benefits from the fast itself. It is because of this sensitivity that caution is advised and this is no different from certain cautionary measures doctors advise after surgery. It might be a good idea to wait to do a fast until you're ready to conduct a proper fast which includes breaking it correctly as well.

When we take shortcuts we lose the full benefits and end up complaining that fasting doesn't work when really the problem is us - not only we do lose the benefits from the fast but we might regain weight as rapidly as we lost it. Its really in our best interests to conduct a proper fast otherwise all the pain from detox during a fast would have really been in vain.

About 2 weeks ago, a gentleman that posts to a water fast forum was bemoaning how he couldn't properly empty his bowels. It seems he went on a 10-day water fast and broke it by eating a half-pound of baked salmon.

As for case examples as to what can happen if a fast is broken incorrectly (please note these are examples from fasting practitioners who have documented works dating back decades - with particular attention to Dr. Shelton):


A naturopath in New York City broke the fasts of a mother and daughter, who had been fasting sixteen and thirteen days respectively, on chocolate candy. The gastric and intestinal acidity resulting from this caused great distress throughout the body. Dr. Shelton was called in on these cases, and it required four to five days of fasting to get them back into a comfortable condition. Shelton stated that he hoped to never witness again a fast broken with chocolate.

A California woman fasted 17 days under the direction of a chiropractor and worked hard during the fast. She worked for the chiropractor and he would not permit her leave from work while fasting. He broke her fast with toast and acid fruit. This woman immediately developed a case of malnutritional edema.

Dr. Wm. F. Havard records the following cases: "A young man, 24, who had suffered from chronic constipation and indigestion, fasted 27 days after reading an article in a health publication. On the 28th day he ate a meal of steak, potatoes, bread and butter and coffee. He was seized with violent vomiting spells and could not tolerate even a teaspoonful of water on the stomach. When called on the case I discovered an intense soreness of the entire abdomen and every indication of acute gastritis."

"A young man, 30, who had fasted on his own initiative for 42 days attempted to break the fast on coarse bread with the result that vomiting occurred and the stomach became so irritable that nothing could be retained. There was marked emaciation and extreme weakness and every indication for immediate nourishment."


PLEASE NOTE: These documented case studies are not scare tactics. This post is simply drafted in response to the question posed asking for specifics.

Thank you Raine. That's interesting information. I'm assuming breaking a juice feast is somewhat easier and less traumatic than breaking a fast. As hard as it is breaking a feast, I think I'll skip the fasting. I don't trust myself enough yet. I also feel juice feasting is preferable to fasting in general (for me). I will keep your comments in mind if I ever do decide to fast. Thanks.

I'm sorry to see the personality clashes going on here. This should be an atmosphere of support and sharing information. It's inevitable people are going to disagree. I hope everyone makes a genuine effort to leave the snide comments at the door. We can learn from every one's opinions and experiences, whether we agree with them or not. :)

[Raine]

just a quick note in allison's defense:

http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showpost.php?p=448118&postcount=9

she never once said she ate SAD after fasting.

(((Hugs to you Allison)))

Why would Allison need a defense?

Aleesha is correct - in the posting Allison made on the beginning of this thread she stated: "...I started with juice for half a day and then just dove right into eating anything I wanted," but at no time did she mention what those foods were. She merely ended the posting with a question as to whether this was dangerous.

Aleesha and I agree to disagree over how fasts should be broken.

[Raine]

Thank you Raine. That's interesting information. I'm assuming breaking a juice feast is somewhat easier and less traumatic than breaking a fast. As hard as it is breaking a feast, I think I'll skip the fasting. I don't trust myself enough yet. I also feel juice feasting is preferable to fasting in general (for me). I will keep your comments in mind if I ever do decide to fast. Thanks.

I'm sorry to see the personality clashes going on here. This should be an atmosphere of support and sharing information. It's inevitable people are going to disagree. I hope everyone makes a genuine effort to leave the snide comments at the door. We can learn from every one's opinions and experiences, whether we agree with them or not. :)

Roo - it's all good. If you decide to fast, your body will let you know.

As far as the personality clashes - dayum girl, we Texans are used to everyone in the world being mad at us for something. I think that diplomacy skill got blown away at the Alamo... ;)

[roo]

Roo - it's all good. If you decide to fast, your body will let you know.

As far as the personality clashes - dayum girl, we Texans are used to everyone in the world being mad at us for something. I think that diplomacy skill got blown away at the Alamo... ;)

:p I'm glad we're moving on from the dust up!! :D We need as many people sharing ideas and information as possible so we can all travel this feasting/fasting road with less bumps and bruises! I need all the help I can get!

Thanks again for sharing your insights!

[Rawkinlocs]

This thread needs a cooling off period, so it will be closed for a day or so and then I'll reopen it and see how things go from there.