Deficiencies in Raw Vegan Children???

[Rinda]

I love Revvell's Rawkin Radio Show!!! It's so interesting and motivating to listen to these interviews.

Well, recently she interviewed Shazzie who made it sound like very few children make it successfully without growth problems or illnesses on a Raw Food Vegan diet . She says if a child is raw vegan then they need supplements. If a child is on a vegetarian diet then they don't really need supplements. And if a child is eating raw, dead animals then they don't have to supplement at all.

The deficiencies she stated are:
Vitamin D (especially in UK or where not much sunshine)
B-12
Choline (found in eggs)
Vitamin K
Iron (of course in meat and greens)
DHA

Now, I am feeling rather discouraged thinking that maybe my children will not thrive on the raw vegan diet. We have been using supplements for years anyway, so maybe no concern. But, it scares me. It's my responsibility to raise these 3 children properly.

Especially hearing that a person is getting some of the nutritional needs (not needing supplements) by eating dead animals (iron, etc), or eggs (choline), that they wouldn't so quickly otherwise, this concerns me. My husband is very confident in the raw vegan diet, so I guess I should trust that it's all okay. I tend to think about these things and worry. Shame on me!!!

Any encouragement out there? People on this forum who they themselves have been raising their children on the raw vegan diet for quite a number of years without them having growth problems or noticeable deficiencies.

Let me say I absolutely enjoyed the interview. This is just one part that posed questions in my mind.

[domestic goddess]

I questioned all of this myself.
I am not convinced a 100% raw vegan diet is the best choice for my* children.

I studied this quite a bit as I battled mold issues, and food allergies/sensitivities as well as other immune issues we had about 2 years ago. Last summer, I had my kids on a 95% raw vegan diet, plus a cup of org. homemade yogurt a day. My kids were not growing, had not gained weight in over a year, were sick constantly, had absorption problems, we were concerned one of our sons was on the Autism spectrum, my daughter had severe excema....then we started raw. By the end of the summer they were growing and gaining weight. Their moods improved. They weren't sick. I kept them on raw for about 6mo. until we moved. Now, mind you, we were very healthy vegetarians before that. No junk food, all whole foods, I made most of our food from scratch, we ate lots fruits and veggies, etc.

Now, the kids are about 50-75% raw. I do not personally believe a raw diet is ideal for kids over a long period of time. I feel that it is ideal for me, as an adult as I am 95% raw and have been for well over a year. My children understand the concept of raw, and why we/I do it. They are typically raw until dinner time at which point I will make a vegetarian/vegan meal for them and my husband.

Now, my kids are growing normally, have tons of energy, sleep well, daughter's excema is gone and not returned, allergies/sensitivities have disappeared and have been sick maybe once in the last year. I feel like right now this is the best choice for us, and it is working. We also do not feel it is ok for us to impose such a strict way of living on the kids. We have always told them they can chose how they want to live when they are older (being vegan/veg/carnivores)and understand the ramifications of their choices. But, in the same way, I really have to weigh what is the best for them right now. Last year 95% 'cured' them. Now, 50-75% is keeping them healthy. They are still eating 10x better than most kids we know.

Its tough. As moms we want to do the very best for our children. Inform yourself, then follow your gut/heart as to what is best for *your* children. :D




*I do not judge what others do, you do what works and what you are comfortable with. This is simply my opinion and choice.

[Eva]

I mean no disrespect to Shazzie -- but I take her views or David Wolfe's (or anyone else who SELLS supplements) with a grain of salt when it comes to the things from which they make their living.

[Revvell]

Eva,

I can understand what you're saying yet then, maybe they are like me ~ they only sell what they have found works for them?

I've had people tell me I shouldn't charge for the counseling I do and then my question is, how should I pay my bills? Where SHOULD our money come from if not from doing something we love and sharing what's worked/working for us?



Revvell

[Ariannah]

I listened to this interview. I don't mind listening to the views of those who differ greatly from my own.

I think Shazzie is very cool and is doing a great job answering some of the most frequently answered questions about raw.

(personal opinion, and I'm not a science enthusiast by any means):

I believe the raw body functions differently than the cooked body. What we've been taught all our lives about this or that nutrient are based on the needs of bodies that feed themselves cooked. I'm less about "nutrientism" than I am about just simply finding out what kind of foods are *naturally* meant for human consumption, and just eating them.

My children are not 100% raw, though, but they eat plenty of raw natural food in their diet, which differs quite starkly from the standard diet.

[Eva]

Eva,

I can understand what you're saying yet then, maybe they are like me ~ they only sell what they have found works for them?

I've had people tell me I shouldn't charge for the counseling I do and then my question is, how should I pay my bills? Where SHOULD our money come from if not from doing something we love and sharing what's worked/working for us?



Revvell

If you were saying "You can't have abundance unless you buy all my ebooks and attend my seminars" or "It is not likely that a person can be happy on the raw food diet unless they have Revvell's 'Revvellutionize Your Life in 30 Days' guidebook" -- then I would say... Hmmm, let's see who the messenger is!

(Which, by the way, I do have your "Revvellutionize Your Life" and have had great benefit from it! I also have a lot of respect for your business and think I have a lot to learn from you.)

There is a big difference between a fair exchange for someone's service and the payment -- and the person who sells supplements saying "Children usually don't do well without supplements" or the person who sells "superfoods" saying "Regular food's not good enough; that's why you need 'superfoods.'"

My comment was just to keep in mind who is sharing the information. Now, that does NOT mean that she is being dishonest or even that she is wrong. I am just saying to take it with a grain of salt.

[Revvell]

I gotcha, although, what you say in the first paragraph is absolutely true except you need to add my smoothie book in the mix. :p

Also, one thing I tried to get from her (think I did) was where she lives. Maybe things are better now with food but I have friends who went to the UK and they said the celery was almost white. Their soil is poor. Don't know where they get their produce now but, if it's shipped it's losing a LOT of nutrients compared to what we have here w/ farmers' markets all over the place. Definitely a different thing going on in UK and SoCal.

But then, I don't do products meself, especially isolated nutrients. If anything, I'm thinking home-grown sprouts would suffice but then, I don't have children so can't say what I would do.

Thanks for expanding conversation. :)



If you were saying "You can't have abundance unless you buy all my ebooks and attend my seminars" or "It is not likely that a person can be happy on the raw food diet unless they have Revvell's 'Revvellutionize Your Life in 30 Days' guidebook" -- then I would say... Hmmm, let's see who the messenger is!

(Which, by the way, I do have your "Revvellutionize Your Life" and have had great benefit from it! I also have a lot of respect for your business and think I have a lot to learn from you.)

There is a big difference between a fair exchange for someone's service and the payment -- and the person who sells supplements saying "Children usually don't do well without supplements" or the person who sells "superfoods" saying "Regular food's not good enough; that's why you need 'superfoods.'"

My comment was just to keep in mind who is sharing the information. Now, that does NOT mean that she is being dishonest or even that she is wrong. I am just saying to take it with a grain of salt.

[iamacranberry]

I love Revvell's Rawkin Radio Show!!! It's so interesting and motivating to listen to these interviews.

Well, recently she interviewed Shazzie who made it sound like very few children make it successfully without growth problems or illnesses on a Raw Food Vegan diet . She says if a child is raw vegan then they need supplements. If a child is on a vegetarian diet then they don't really need supplements. And if a child is eating raw, dead animals then they don't have to supplement at all.

The deficiencies she stated are:
Vitamin D (especially in UK or where not much sunshine)
B-12
Choline (found in eggs)
Vitamin K
Iron (of course in meat and greens)
DHA

Now, I am feeling rather discouraged thinking that maybe my children will not thrive on the raw vegan diet. We have been using supplements for years anyway, so maybe no concern. But, it scares me. It's my responsibility to raise these 3 children properly.

Especially hearing that a person is getting some of the nutritional needs (not needing supplements) by eating dead animals (iron, etc), or eggs (choline), that they wouldn't so quickly otherwise, this concerns me. My husband is very confident in the raw vegan diet, so I guess I should trust that it's all okay. I tend to think about these things and worry. Shame on me!!!

Any encouragement out there? People on this forum who they themselves have been raising their children on the raw vegan diet for quite a number of years without them having growth problems or noticeable deficiencies.

Let me say I absolutely enjoyed the interview. This is just one part that posed questions in my mind.

Rinda, not "shame on you". You want your children to be healthy, so you've spent some time thinking about their nutritional needs and not just accepting things blindly. Society needs more of that--and once you question and act as a skeptic, when your questions are answered and your suspicions are relieved, you will be even more grounded in the decision you make.

There is hardly anything worse than ignorance, so congratulations for "thinking about these things and worrying".

[cherries]

Most of those you really don't need to supplement with:

Vitamin D (especially in UK or where not much sunshine)

I had read that too much vitamin D can actually cause bone loss. I tried to find reference for that but I found other stuff, the most interesting was that an overdose causes anorexia!? You probably only need to be careful about vitamin D in the winter and ignore it the rest of the year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D#Overdose
Vitamin D toxicity is known to be a cause of high blood pressure.[42] Gastrointestinal symptoms of vitamin D toxicity can include anorexia, nausea, and vomiting. These symptoms are often followed by polyuria (excessive production of urine), polydipsia (increased thirst), weakness, nervousness, pruritus (itch), and eventually renal failure. Other signals of kidney disease including elevated protein levels in the urine, urinary casts, and a build up of wastes in the blood stream can also develop.[2] In one study, hypercalciuria and bone loss occurred in four patients with documented vitamin D toxicity.[43] Another study showed elevated risk of ischaemic heart disease when 25D was above 89 ng/mL.[44]

B-12 - I supplement with this, especially since I read that mercury affects vitamin B12, in a perfect world we wouldn't need B12 supplementation, but it's probably a good idea. I use the type that starts with "meth" rather than "cyan"

Choline is in some nuts (amount per 100g and percent of RDA)

Almond 52 mg 12 %
Cashews - none
Coconut - none
Flaxseeds - none
Hazelnuts/Filberts - 46 mg 10 %
Macadamia - none
Pecans - 40 mg 9 %
Pine Nuts - 56 mg 13 %
Sesame seeds - none
Sunflower seeds - none
English Walnuts - 39 mg 9 %

Vitamin K - This is in greens and nuts This is so easily obtained by greens I wonder why anyone would need to supplement. (amounts are per 100g sample with the percent of RDA met)

Pine Nuts 54 μg 59 %
Pumpikin 51 μg 57 %
Cahsews 34 μg 37 %
Flaxseeds 4 μg 4 %

Parsley 1,640 μg 1822 %
Swiss Chard 830 μg 922 %
Kale 817 μg 907 %
Spincah 483 μg 536 %

Iron I never felt the need to supplement this since I eat a good amount of dried fruit

Parsley 6,200 μg 34 %
Raisins 1,880 μg 10 %
Figs 2,030 μg 11 %


DHA I never really knew too much about this, I always thought that flax seeds provided all the omegas you need.
Small amounts are manufactured internally through the consumption of Alpha-Linolenic acid, an Ω-3 fatty acid found in chia, flax, and many other seeds and nuts. There are also vegetarian sources of Docosahexaenoic acid, which come from seaweed. (http://www.personaldietplanner.com/articles/nutrients/fatty_acids/docosahexaenoic_acid_dha.html)

[firefaery]

the important thing to realize here is that it's not simply a matter of taking it in. DHA can be synthesized from vegetarian sources, providing hte gut is working properly. Vitamin D absorption is dependent upon bioavailable vitamin A which is again dependent upon gut health and proper flora. The point being is if ou have too much D is generally because you are deficient in A. I could go on but I'm sure you see my point. The body is a symphony. It's not a matter of measuring nutrients and slapping labels on foods and assuming all will be well.

With any child on the autism spectrum there will be compromised gut function. While raw can help it is rare that they can recover without supplementation because they cannot access all the nutrients they are taking in. Now, everyone is different, but I just think it's important to know it's NOT a one size fits all approach. We are all individuals, so just because someone else raised a raw kid with no issues does not mean by definition you can as well. There is no substitute for intuition in this arena. Watch the child. That's all you can do. IF things are going well, great. IF they aren't, re-evaluate. You can solve just about any problem with the right tools, but sometimes you do need to find new tools.

Raw is healing, and it feels wonderful. But I have had to make many modification within the raw lifestyle to thrive, and for my kids as well. That doesn't mean raw isn't wonderful, it just means that like anything else we are on a journey. Consciousness is key.

[Raene]

I haven't listened to the interview yet but I think it's very strange that someone would be SOOO pro-raw but not for kids. Excuse me?? If it's good for us it's good for us. If it's optimal, it should be optimal for all humans. What, in nature we should cook our kids' foods but not our own? I don't buy it.

[Zella Juice]

I decided to get the vitamin K2 Shazzie suggests from Mercola. It is made from fermented soy which gives me a headache.

Casein is also listed in the ingredients, which someone from another site said was synthetic and not derived from milk. But still, I am trying to give my family whole foods and not synthetic anything.

I think Shazzie has her own garden. I certainly would if I lived there and the produce wasn't very good.

I would like to hope that Shazzie is just trying to help. But sometimes I wish the ones who are in the media would just avocate raw foods and that's it. And tell us what we can get from fruits and veggies that have those vitamins in them. We are not rich like they are. It's hard enough to afford the organic produce. That bottle of K2 was 50 bucks for a month. And that's just one person. I have three people in my family. All I can do is go nuts with the blended greens. Because we cannot go back to cooked..my son and I both get really sick from cooked foods.

[firefaery]

I agree with you in theory. But as I see it, the problem is not with raw foods, it is with the bodies that our children are grown in. We are what our grandmother's ate. The nutritional stores that go into creating and growing that child are NOT simply what you eat while you are trying to conceive. Our bodies are damaged. They are impaired. We have a long ways to go before we can be clear of the damage incurred in our childhood (I know I had vaccines, OTC meds and tons of antibiotics as well as cooked processed "food.") I have been raw for years but am still not what I would consider *there.* That being the case I feed my kids raw, but know that they started out with deficiencies EVEN THOUGH they were breastfed.

In a perfect world if we were raised perfectly as were our mothers I can see that this might work really well. In my book, raw is best, but when kids come into the world with issues then there is more to it than mere idealism.

We all do what is best for our kids and that's all we are looking at here. I know that 100% raw wasn't enough for mine, though I tried for years. Supplementation did make a world of difference and I am very clear as to why that is. For everyone that has kiddos that experience excellent health on raw by itself, that is wonderful! Mine did not. I made a conscious choice to do the best I could for them, and managed to stay raw doing it-though that might be disputed by the rawbies that dont' believe in supplementation.

Babies don't just need the food they are fed, they need nutritional stores. If they don't have that I am not sure that raw foods can reverse that. Again, just my perspective. I have 3 kids who are being raised naturally and none have ever had OTC drugs or vaccinations, none have ever tasted fast food. I am a huge believer in food as medicine, but not so much so that I will turn a blind eye to a child who isn't thriving.

I'm just saying there is more to this than eat a perfect diet....we dont' all have the same abilities to handle that and process it properly.

[Zella Juice]

Firefaery, What non-raw foods do you feed your kids? And what supplements?

I give my family a supplement for iodine but it's just kelp dried at low temperatures.

If I give my son cooked food he doesn't feel well afterwards and then his immune system gets low and he catches some virus and is sick for a week or more. He has been raw for a year now. It's just not worth it for me to give him cooked. And I wouldn't mind giving him a supplement if it were raw too, like the kelp. Oh and we started giving him spirulina too but that is also dried at low temps.

[firefaery]

We use iodoral which is an iodine supplement. We tried kelp for years (I had even used it long before raw) and when I was tested my levels were abysmal. My daughter and I also had almost all the signs for deficiency.

I also supplement with magnesium for all my children.

We personally do a few of the B vitamins because we have deficiencies (and a double marker for folate), as well as A and D. Dd had a severe zinc deficiency from birth as well. Ds was in need of supplemental A.

I know we are not iron or K deficient, so I don't worry about those. We do daily herbal infusions that take care of that and there are plenty of signs that tell me we are doing well on that front.

In terms of cooked food, my kids get eggs. We get them straight from the farm weekly. I decided to do this when, after another round of testing and things were still not right after being raw for a LONG time we found that my daughter is not able to properly produce cholesterol. An anomaly, yes, but it goes back to my point of watching the child, not just the food. Since I have very low cholesterol as does the rest of my family along with my kids we decided after much though to use eggs in our diet. Doing so has changed her voice (it was very hoarse and scratchy) as well as her mood. We need cholesterol to utilize seratonin (a neurotransmitter that in concert with others stabilizes moods) She stopped having major mood swings with the cholesterol being given dietarily.

I am in a unique position here. I work in nutrition and am in school working towards my doctorate in homeopathic medicine. I have access to a wide variety of tests. As I have stated before two of my children were diagnosed on the autism spectrum. My middle child was FTT until she was 16 months. Raw made a huge difference, but we all required a bit more. We had heavy metal toxicity and I had an undiagnosed autoimmune disease for years before I ever got pregnant that severely damaged my digestion. I also had vaccine reactions as a child and was on antibiotics for years at a clip. So, perhaps my situation is more severe than others, but the point is the same: you watch the child. Always. IF your child is doing well then you have nothing to worry about. If you think something may be amiss, do not assume that because you are raw all your bases are covered. Eventually they may be, but childhood is a time of immense dietary requirements. IF for any reason your child isn't able to access all the nutrients he/she is taking in the fact that they are raw isn't going to make much of a difference.

As adults our bodies are a bit more forgiving. We are not in the period of extreme and rapid growth that our children are. We can handle the see saw of balancing out our nutrients while we watch our bodies. I know I can. However seeing how quickly the changes implemented shifted things for my kids was astonishing. I am a huge advocate of raw, so this is NOT a scare tactic. Just a reminder since the question was raised that there are things to look at beyond just what you are taking in. Just because that handful of nuts had zinc and magnesium doesn't guarantee that your body knows how to use them.

[firefaery]

I haven't listened to the interview yet but I think it's very strange that someone would be SOOO pro-raw but not for kids. Excuse me?? If it's good for us it's good for us. If it's optimal, it should be optimal for all humans. What, in nature we should cook our kids' foods but not our own? I don't buy it.

I think it's also important to understand there is no one "optimal" diet. Even within raw there are different ideas as to what is healthiest. Lowfat raw, highfat raw, low sugar raw, mostly fruit, no nuts etc. Different people will always require different things where we are right now. Once we have leveled the playing field that may change. Right now we just need to be open to understanding that not all bodies respond equally to any given food. Ten different people can define raw in ten different ways...which is right? Which is best for our children? The only way to know is through experience and intuition. It is there for all of us, all of the time.

[Zella Juice]

Wow. Thanks for your response. I have not had any tests done for us. That makes sense though. To just have a test done to see where we are deficient.

My son is doing so much better. But I guess I am always thinking he could be doing better. If one tooth doesn't grow as fast as the others I wonder if he is deficient. But compared to how he was before..it's like night and day.

It's just a 'Mom' worry thing that won't go away. So testing seems like the right thing to do, so I can know for sure.

Thanks SO much for your input. I really appreciate it.

[Clare]

Firefaery - how interesting about the low cholesterol in your kids and the ASD. I was just reading about low cholesterol being a pattern in many autistic kids and how some are supplementing with capsules. Much more nutritious and humane to get it from a good farm. I give my kids a raw yolk every day and have from the beginning, especially since they are adopted and didn't get breast milk (raw goat until 12-15 mo).

Raene - I totally know what you're saying...how can one diet be optimal for adults and not for children? And yet, most cultures worldwide favor certain foods, especially those rich in fat-soluble nutrients, for children and pregnant women. One thing I recall from Diet for a New America and other veggie books is that a diet with animal protein/fat might cause the "best" growth and strength in a young child but a higher risk of diseases in adulthood like cancer and heart disease. As adults, eating growth-promoting foods is asking for cancer. I think of it as a balancing act for children between giving a little concentrated nutrition in the early years (maybe birth to 5?) and then backing that off. I think that a raw vegan or near-vegan diet promotes longevity versus growth.

[firefaery]

Honestly I go back and forth on this. There is NO reason to panic unless you are seeing troublesome signs, which we were from go. That said, it's a slippery slope because does the average person really *know* the signs? I'm not certain they do.

Delayed dentition is generally more a result of maternal nutrition during pregnancy, less of a reflection of babies intake post-natally. I understand what you mean though! It's difficult once your child has been in a tough spot to see everything in a *normal* light as the paradigm has shifted. It also goes to what I am saying....dd didn't get her first tooth until well after a year, and didn't have all of them until almost 3 years. It was a sign that all wasn't necessarily as it should have been....that and the fact that the teeth didn't have enamel on them when they DID come in! I'm not suggesting you are in that same camp...just saying that there is a reason for maternal instinct. It may be nothing in your case, but your attention to the matter doesn't let it slip by unnoticed. I don't know what is happening with your little one, or if testing is necessary. If you decide to go that route I would just encourage you to do your research so you don't waste your time with useless tests.

I do believe that anything can be healed, and we have healed SO much. For me it was a very big lesson. I was a bit of extremist when it came to diet. I was very rigid in my beliefs. This taught me quite a bit. I was humbled and as a result am a far better practitioner. I think I had to see it with my own kids because then there could be no doubt as to what was happening. With clients of friends there could always be an excuse.....maybe they weren't eating organically, didn't breastfeed long enough, not enough raw foods, too many grains, they were vaccinated etc. I knew everything that went into my kids mouths and everything that DIDN'T go into their bodies. I had no choice but to dig deeper.

[lane]

as a couple of you have mentioned- there is no substitute for intuition regarding what to include/exclude in your children's diet. i have 2 small children (1 and 3 years) who eat a plant based raw diet (youngest still nursing)- and i know myself and my intuitive "patterns and signals" well enough to know that when i recently began to receive strong feelings that i should be looking into raw butter and egg yolks for the oldest- there's no way i'm turning my head. definitely research, but above all else, trust the direction your gut points you in.

firefaery, i really love your posts in this thread- thank you.
cc

[tanishamarshall]

I don't have kids but I believe that with any diet for Adults or kids that we have to find what works best for us. There are so many people with so many ways to be raw but that is there way it's what work for them.

I think we all have to find what works for us and not be afraid to be different.

I think there is a starting point where you follow someone's method but then I believe you have to start following your own intuition.

I think it's best to go with what one feels is right for there child even if it seems to be against some of the well known raw foodist.

We have to find our own way, which can be scary at times but I think it will bring about more peace in our hearts and soul if we follow what we feel is right.

We are all so different and unique.

[Chickadee]

firefaery-
Besides the iodoral (a big THANK YOU! by the way for naming that), what companies do purchase your supplements from. I mean who do you trust to make quality supplements.

Thanks in advance. :)

[firefaery]

for magnesium I have had the best luck with NaturalCalm by Natural Vitality. I love it and it's quite pleasant to take. My kids like the raspberry, I love the lemon.

For B vites I do a broad spectrum. I tend to rotate, but right now I am taking B supreme by Designs for Health. I also get B's from nettle infusions.

For A and D I do use a non-vegan source. After all the research I did this was the best option for us for a variety of reasons. I use Blue Ice cod liver oil. This also gives us our DHA. With the damage to the digestive tracts in both dd and myself and the fact that ds even had some signs I don't count on our ability to convert ALA to DHA.

I will occasionally do zinc from Scientific Botanicals. Each drop is 5 mg which makes it really easy to dose kids and adults appropriately.

That is it in terms of supplementation-aside from the iodoral. I have in the past done extra biotin and folate, but we are past that now. I also used to do a liquid mineral supplement for the kiddos....frequensea is decent. Mostly though I like Professional Formulas collodial trace mineral complex. I have been thinking about going back to that.

Hope that helps!

[Dimples]

Thanks guys. I am enjoying this discussion and closely following it as I have an almost 5 yr old who has always been a POOR SAD eater but enjoys tremendously most of the raw dishes I make and eats them with gusto. Funny thing is after eating them for a while, she will then crave a SAD meal which I will usually give her. She was underweight when all SAD and bloaty, gassy, with her hair not growing. My husband was convinced she needed more dairy!!! It was a fight to ban milk and dairy products from the house but he's eventually seen the light, or atleast appreciated the fact that she's not gassy anymore :D
Best thing on around 60% raw is that her weight has normalized. She's no longer underweight and skinny looking and her hair is beginning to grow. She was obviously deficient in some things which raw seems to have solved. Unfortunately I have no idea what deficiencies she had. My goal is to up the raw to as high as she can take. I am always a proud mama when we are out with extended family and they go for their fast food and she proudly announces that that day she will skip the fries and ketchup and wait to eat at home.

[Zella Juice]

I dunno if I mentioned on this thread but my son was also underweight. He gained on raw too. And we ate the same food and lost weight.

[Pookietooth]

If you live far north, you will need to supplement vitamin D, because even in the summer you won't be able to make enough unless you are out at midday without any sunblock for at least thirty minutes (they will probaly be increasing the suggested minimum for D to 800 IUs instead of 400) several times per week. As far as vitamin K, don't greens have them in them? B12 should be supplemented -- a lack can cause major problems. DHA is important too, but not as big a deal as others make it out to be. It can be made from golden algae, but it's quite expensive.

[Rinda]

Thank you for all your comments!

I guess I've come to the place where I have to remind myself that a whole raw foods diet is so much more nourishing than the SAD.

Remembering that I've heard (you have too?!) more than once, a parent who is telling their toddler that they must eat their hot dog :eek: first before they can have some pudding. :eek: At this point, my fears about deficiencies in this raw lifestlye fade a bit.

It really is amazing that a child can grow big and strong like they do with what they are fed. So, I should just relax, just be aware, and I'll likely know if there is something lacking with my child. So far they are doing fantastic.....My oldest just misses the cooked sweet potatoes, rice, etc.

Thanks again for the conversation on this topic!!

[Arijel5]

I haven't listened to the interview yet but I think it's very strange that someone would be SOOO pro-raw but not for kids. Excuse me?? If it's good for us it's good for us. If it's optimal, it should be optimal for all humans. What, in nature we should cook our kids' foods but not our own? I don't buy it.


Raene you've made an excellent point!

Mind you, I'm no expert myself on nutrition issues, but my logics work like this, kids when growing need as much as nutrients (vitamins, minerals, enzymes) as they can get, so how can 100% raw be bad for them, how is that some people are pro-raw ('cause if you cook foods, it sufers loses in vitamins, minerals and enzymes) but when it comes to kids on 100% raw they're not so "pro", and not so sure, and suggest making an exception when it comes to kids and maybe cooking some percentage of their daily foods - but here's ow I see it, recommending some % of cooking would make sence only if, and only if, someone told and proved to me that vitamins, minerals and enzymes are not so good for you in rich amounts, so you have to cook your foods to lose that "extra" - it really doesn't make any sence! (but that's just my simple logic, and it doesn;t mean I'm right, but it really doesn't make that much sence)

As to deficiency's in some vitamins and minerals, they can be substituted with natural foods that are rich in specific nutrients like for example Iron, wheatgrass juice has in 100mg 230% of DRA.........and ect. but you have to have knowledge on how to meet your body's daily needs on any type of diet

But I have to add that I think that a perfect diet doesn;t egsist and we're all individuals so we have to "listen", every man fo r him self what works for "you" (us).

[iamacranberry]

Because people eating cooked foods already know which foods to feed their kids so that they get a balanced range of nutrients. However, raw dishes have different combinations of nutrients, and someone new to raw might not be sure which ones to feed the kids in order to get them a balanced range of nutrients. For example, eating fruit all the time with nothing else won't give them a balanced range, etc. You can eat a healthy raw diet or a really unhealthy one (eg dates and bananas all the time, no greens, etc.) Sure, in general the raw diet is more healthy than cooked, WHEN it's done correctly. And I'm sure the original poster of the question simply wants to make sure it's done correctly. Nothing wrong with that.

[Arijel5]

Because people eating cooked foods already know which foods to feed their kids so that they get a balanced range of nutrients. However, raw dishes have different combinations of nutrients, and someone new to raw might not be sure which ones to feed the kids in order to get them a balanced range of nutrients. For example, eating fruit all the time with nothing else won't give them a balanced range, etc. You can eat a healthy raw diet or a really unhealthy one (eg dates and bananas all the time, no greens, etc.) Sure, in general the raw diet is more healthy than cooked, WHEN it's done correctly. And I'm sure the original poster of the question simply wants to make sure it's done correctly. Nothing wrong with that.


You're right iamcranberry, eating raw by itself isn't gonna supply you with body's daily nutrient needs, just because you eat your foods raw, unless you have diversity in your foods and unless you educate yourself (keep an open mind) and eventually learn to listen and interpret your body's reactions and thirst for specific nutrients you lack

[Revvell]

Because people eating cooked foods already know which foods to feed their kids so that they get a balanced range of nutrients.

Is that true? If so, why are so many children starving? why do I see them giving their babies soda in their bottles? Why are they still giving them cow's milk or soy formula? If this were true, why is it that in the richest country in the world, we've got the fattest people and the highest disease rate?

Kids eating cooked foods are not EVEN getting a balanced range of nutrients. On the contrary, they are getting virtually none. It amazes me how humans are even alive. We must be like cockroaches. We can adjust survive pretty much anything ~ up to a point.

[Rinda]

Sure, in general the raw diet is more healthy than cooked, WHEN it's done correctly. And I'm sure the original poster of the question simply wants to make sure it's done correctly. Nothing wrong with that.


That's right, I do want to make sure it's done correctly. So, the question is, what is the correct way? :confused: Where's a handbook? ;)

[iamacranberry]

Is that true? If so, why are so many children starving? why do I see them giving their babies soda in their bottles? Why are they still giving them cow's milk or soy formula? If this were true, why is it that in the richest country in the world, we've got the fattest people and the highest disease rate?

Kids eating cooked foods are not EVEN getting a balanced range of nutrients. On the contrary, they are getting virtually none. It amazes me how humans are even alive. We must be like cockroaches. We can adjust survive pretty much anything ~ up to a point.

Some kids eating cooked food are not doing well, true. But many others eating cooked food do perfectly fine. As I already mentioned, you can do any eating plan well or poorly. You can be a healthy vegan or a junk food vegan, a healthy raw fooder or a dates-and-cashews raw fooder; you can be an omnivore who goes light on the meat and eats low-fat or one of those who eats nothing but processed food all the way.

And Rinda, I don't know what book to recommend for children, as I don't have kids, but the Talifero family (Storm and Jinjee) have a bunch of kids who are 100% raw. Don't know if they have anything about that. There's also a section on this forum about raising raw children, and there are other parents who post things like meal plans, ideas, etc. In fact....it is this one:
http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=16

Hope that helps; sorry that's a subject I really don't know much about!

[domestic goddess]

YES! Storm and Jinjee's site is great and they have some fantastic e-books, one of which is what they have done with their kids. I have to admit, their kids' diet is not one my kids would be ok with...unfortunately! Mine grew up on a healthy vegan/vegetarian diet, and know cooked food. I am hoping to change that but I REALLYadmire Jinjee for what she feeds her kids. And, they all look fantastic. I think the site is the gardendiet.com or something like that.

[coco]

i didn't see a link to the actual article in this thread.

http://www.shazzie.com/raw/articles/raw_vegan_children.shtml

it might be helpful to know what we're actually discussing here.

[Revvell]

i didn't see a link to the actual article in this thread.


It wasn't an article. It was an interview as stated in the op: http://rawkinradio.com/.

[coco]

i linked the article above if anyone wants to read it. it came up on another site i visit. i think it's pretty good, she's not trying to sell anything, she is just genuinely concerned for her own kid and sharing that info. good for her i say. getting advice out of people when i was pregnant with my first child and he was a baby was like pulling teeth! it's good that it's getting discussed more these days. little people do have different nutritional needs than big folk. i know raw is already miles beyond coke and cheesies for lunch but it can all still be improved on, right?