MSM Powder Warning

[Yvette]

MSM is touted as a wonder supplement. It claims to make your skin clear and radiant, make your hair strong and thick, increase flexibility and relieve pain etc but this is not the full picture. I want to tell you my experience of msm because I have been mislead about this substance and I don’t want others to go through what I have.

My mom and I had heard such good stuff about msm so we were in no doubt about its safety when she stated taking it four months ago to grow her hair. However shortly after taking it she had some worrying side effects . She was taking one teaspoon each morning for two weeks, and then in the second week something strange happened with her sleep cycle and she started sleeping only once every two days, or in other words she would sleep one night and then the next night be awake all night. By the end of that week it dawned on her that it was the msm that had done this, so she stopped it immediately and thought in a few days or so she would go back to normal, but it has now been four months in all and she still cannot sleep!
It was definitely the MSM that disrupted her sleeping cycle as she is on no medication, healthy and was not taking any other supplements, the strange thing is that the MSM seems to have caused some kind of blockage in her body and nothing seems to cut through this blockage and make her better.


She has now spent hundreds of pounds trying every sleep remedy in the health shop and ayurveda and acupuncture and nothing worked at all. She has had to resign to sleeping pills from the doctor, the only thing that will allow her a few hours sleep a night.

We are so desperate to know how to reverse this side effect of the msm. Everywhere we look for information says msm is completely harmless and non toxic and yet it has caused this major side effect for my mom. We have emailed the raw food company we purchased it from (Detox your World) and called them about the situation and were very disheartened when they completely refused to know and kept declaring that msm is so wonderful and couldn’t possibly have caused my mom’s sleeping problem. But we know 100% that it did.

We have come to the realisation that even so called ‘harmless’ things are harmful to some individuals, and it really hurts when people refuse to believe you when you tell them that it has caused a problem. I am so sorry I ever found out about raw foods now, because if I hadn’t I would not have known about MSM, With raw food companies there is no comeback if you ever have any problems with their goods. Right now me and my mom feel so alone with this problem and we wish someone would help us.

I have watched her health go downhill, she is barely recognisable to the person she was before and it has been such a strain on the family. She is 60 years old and until now has been remarkably healthy and never had to take medication for any health problem. But since this has happened she has become suicidal and I’m worried if she doesn’t find a way to get better she will take her life. She often blames me for recommending the msm to her, but I never knew it could be harmful to anyone, everyday I live with the guilt that I have contributed to her distress, and if she doesn’t get better I will never forgive myself.

At the time she took it we were not aware msm is such a powerful liver detoxifier. She has spoken to a very qualified Harley Street Nutritionist whom she is going to see soon who told her over the phone that he believes the msm have upset her nervous system due to the liver (sulfation) pathway it detoxifies. As of now, we don’t know if this can be reversed but we are hoping it can be cured.

In my research on MSM I have also found on a particular forum that many people have terrible vivid nightmares when taking MSM. So bad, that many have had to discontinue use of it.

It is all too easy to get carried away with the good things to do with the raw food lifestyle, but by sharing the bad side it can help others. So if anyone has had a similar situation on MSM or any other side effect please share. If any one can help me with any suggestions on how to cure this problem I would be so grateful.

[Aleesha Sattva]

i am sending hugs your way... first and foremost! (((hugs)))

is your mom raw? i would recommend she becomes raw. perhaps even does a juice feast to assist with cleansing her body. if the msm was doing a detox on her liver and this happened i would guess that her liver was not the picture of health you both assumed it was. hence, why i would do a detox on it.

i know you said, "But we know 100% that it did." unfortunately the reality is, we have no way of knowing that. (we meaning the royal we) it may have been something that was coming and it happened at the same time. my mom's hubby is the same age and has stopped sleeping as well. they can't figure out why and nothing works to assist him. it's odd and we haven't been able to remedy the situation for him either.

again... sending you huge (((hugs)))

[Zella Juice]

"I am so sorry I ever found out about raw foods now, because if I hadn’t I would not have known about MSM"

Regarding this quote. Putting blame on the wrong thing does not help the situation. That is like your mother blaming you. You told her to take the supplement out of love..not because you wanted to hurt her. So get over feeling guilty. And if she tries to make you feel guilty...set her straight.

Now you just need to focus on getting better. And I agree that she should be eating more raw foods to get better so that she may cleanse it out. But, if she has not been a raw foodist..it might not be wise to go 100% right away. She needs lots of blended greens (ie green smoothies) and fresh juice..to flush out that stuff from her system. It's probably still hanging out in the bowels. I would suggest start her on a ton of fresh juice and green smoothies to get things back on track.

Being angry with raw foods is not going to help anything. They are still the foods that heal. And your mom needs to heal.

Be there to support her, and you both will get through this. And by telling others about your situation..you might save someone alot of trouble.

Thanks for your post. Hang in there. (((((hugs))))))

[Yvette]

Thanks Aleesha and zella juice for your replies. My mom is not raw but she is vegetarian and mostly avoids wheat and dairy and eats a fair amount of fruit and vegetables. She has never done any sort of specific detox before so I’m not sure if that is why the MSM had such a adverse affect on her body. In my opinion she was healthy before this happened but like you say , you just don’t know. I think the MSM shook up her system a bit and maybe it was too much too soon for her and caused a kind of healing crisis. I think she just regrets tampering with her body in the first place because she was happy with her level of health. In hindsight if she had known it was a powerful liver detox she would not have done it. I have suggested to her that we could do a detox together. We were considering doing the master cleanse, do you think this would be good?

[Zella Juice]

If she was a vegetarian..then yes..a detox would be helpful. As long as there are tons of blended greens. I have not been able to get to the point to do a juice fast..but just by having mostly juice and blended greens..and avacodo, red peppers and onions..my body is doing much MORE cleansing than after a year of green smoothies and mostly raw. I wasn't expecting this but it showed me that I was holding myself back by eating things that slowed down the digestion process. Even some raw things..like bananas ..were making it difficult to cleanse.

This is just my opinion and I wish I could say check with your doctor. But there aren't many doctors that are going to be helpful with this.

[Aleesha Sattva]

She has never done any sort of specific detox before so I’m not sure if that is why the MSM had such a adverse affect on her body.

I think any cleanse would be a good idea to be honest. 60 years of eating and drinking things which are processed or cooked... 60 years of possible medications... 60 years of breathing in pollution... 60 years of not cleansing your body once!

Think about that for just a moment and then realize... her body may be 'coping' well but it isn't necessarily healthy on the inside like she thought.

Any form of cleansing - master cleanse, juice feasting, green smoothie feast - will benefit her (and you) greatly. :) Do it together and make it fun!

We support you both! (((hugs)))

[raven]

I'm sorry for what you and your mom are going through. Are you sure you didn't buy synthetic MSM? I've found that products which are labeled raw MSM can be synthetic. It's hard to know what's genuinely effective and what isn't and what can be potentially harmful. I hope you find a way to help your mom.

Suzy

[queenfluff]

So sorry to hear about your mom. :(

Regarding the MSM, I am always recommending it to people myself for hair and nails etc. It is also good for arthitis and such. My mom starting using it for her knee after surgery for scar tissue and she said it was working great.

The thing is that 1 teaspoon is a very low MSM dosage for one day. I take a 1/2 tablespoon. David Wolfe takes up to 3 tablespoons a day! (not recommending anyone do that). MSM only stays in your body for 12 hour periods so if your mom was only taking 1 teaspoon in the morning - it was probably out of her body by the evening - it doesn't stay in there too linger about.

Yes, MSM is a detoxer not just for the liver but for your whole body- but that is a good thing. But honestly the 1 teaspoon your mom was taking probalby wasn't doing to much detoxing. Your mom isn't raw so she probably has some cleaning to do. When I was veg, I thought I was pretty healthy too - well, I ended coming hairs away from developing colon cancer - I was lucky I caught it in time. You might feel fine on the outside but there could be problems waiting on the inside.

Detox comes in many forms - insomnia can be one of them.

I would recommend doing the MC - it is great for cleansing out the colon and kidneys! And stop taking the MSM (obviously). But you might want to look into doing a liver and gallbladder cleanse if you are worried that the liver is detoxing out. When you cleanse you will be tried too because you don't eat anything so you will get sleepy. I just did an MC and I was pretty tried during some of it.

I know you are worried about your mom and it seem really easy to blame the MSM because this problem came when she was first taking it but I really think that there might be something else underlying that was stirred up at this time. Maybe the MSM released it?

If it were me I would keep cleansing and detoxing. I would stop taking the MSM while I was cleansing though (you aren't supposed to take supplements while you cleanse).

My personal belief is that sleeping pills make things worse.

It could be possiible that you got a some bad MSM? Although Detox your World being a raw site - I wouldn't think so. I would definatley not take any MSM that isn't pure - meaning no MSM with caking agents in it.

If you can get a chance, David Wolfe is the expert on MSM. If you can get to see him in person and maybe ask him that would be great!

Keep us posted on how your mom is doing. Hang in there! Sleep will come back when your body wants it - you just have to have a little faith - your body knows what it is doing. :)

[cherries]

How does one tell if it is synthetic or not? I have some MSM and the bottle says that it is methylsulfonlmathane? I read another post on MSM and it said that MSM comes from garlic. I read this site and it said that it is imposible to buy natural MSM, but that, on the other hand, MSM is identical in structure regardless of if it is natural or synthetic.

http://www.bulkmsm.com/research/msm/page33.htm
Hence, the only viable method for producing large commercial quantities of these life-giving sulfur compounds is by using chemical technology. Therefore, one can not buy "natural" MSM. It is not commercially possible. Instead, one must rely on chemical engineering and the skills of chemical engineers to produce commercial quantities of MSM. . . .

The process nature uses to produce MSM is rather similar to how humans produce it commercially. But MSM is not "natural," rather it is a synthetic product. The confusion in qualifying the source of MSM as "natural" or "synthetic" comes from the fact that MSM is identical in structure whether it comes from the factory or is found in nature.

[Anastazia]

{{{{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}
First of all, please, pelase please, talk it through & work it out to forgive yourself & let go of the blame, anger, regret....the past can't be changed, but the toxic emotions held onto will harm BOTH of you, & your relationship!
Ask her for her forgiveness, recieve it, & please agree together to let go of that part of it...
...have you looked into her taking melatonin to sleep? It's a hormone our brain naturally produces, but the levels lessen as we age (which could be the root of what she's experiencing, & it can hit suddenly) & it really works! You take as little as possible, some take 3-5 milligrams(?) but I found even 1 was enough for me...(too much can cause intense dreams, & if you take it every night, it can slow down your brain's own production of it, but if that's already happening anyways, it's extremely benficial!)

I'll be keeping you both in my prayers, I know from experience that going without enough sleep is extremely stressful...remind her to pace herself thru the day, rest/nap whenever she can, & keep searching for answers! "Seek & ye SHALL find!" {Suicide is not the solution!!!}

~Anastazia~

[carolg]

I am so sorry to hear about the MSM effect on your mom's sleep pattern. You meant well for your mom suggesting this just like I would have done for a friend. I am wondering if she had a severe allergic reaction to it that messed up her system? Since I am going through NAET, allergy elimination with acupuncture this comes to mind as a thought. What about Ion cleanses done with a machine that releases lots of toxins?

What part of town are you in?

I know there are alternative egroups you may consider posting this too with herbalists, etc. on it. Maybe some of them also has heard of this before. I haven't. I am part of AlternativeAnswers there. It's not a sudden post, then reply group however. I believe emails are screened and then posted which can be a day or two before responses come forth.

My prayers are with you and mom. Please keep us posted. What part of town are you in? What about holistic doctors in your area? Post your location and maybe we can figure out something to help you both here.

I know drfuhrman is a medical doctor. What about curezone.com for some additional help? Maybe you can find suggestions and very active.

carolg

[lioness]

I had a bad reaction to MSM too when I started to take it like 6 months ago. I noticed that I got really constipated when I took it. It made my stools hard and I think I was getting hemorrhoids something I've never had before. I stopped taking it and the problem went away. I think that some people myself included shouldn't take MSM especially if you have liver problems. I also did some research on MSM and on one website it says that you shouldn't take it if you have liver problems because it can cause a severe detox reaction and I think that's what happended to me. Maybe your mother needs to do a liver and bowel cleanse and that will help her to move that MSM out of her system and repair her liver. Because the liver is one of the major cleansing organs and if your liver is impaired then your bowel and other organs are too. If your mother eats meat I'm quite sure her liver has been compromised in some way because meat is heavy on the liver, kidneys and bowels as well as the lymph system. So maybe slowly converting her to a raw foods diet is the way to help her get well. But I wouldn't blame raw foods for her condition, I think that you just feel guilty because you introduced your mother to it and she is now sick. Guilt and feelings of resentment is not the way your mother is going to get well because that's negative energy and you can't heal on negative energy. So instead of her blaming you and you blaming yourself turn that into positive energy by encouraging her and getting more info on ways to help her. It will get better just hang in there and know that your mother will get better. I know how you feel my mother has diabetes and there was a time that she was in and out of the hospital every week, but I took her to a naturopathic doctor and now she's much better. She hasn't been to the hospital in months. So I know how you feel and how your mother is feeling. My mom was giving us the death speech when she was in the hospital, the you're going to have to learn how to get along without me speech. I told her that I wasn't going to accept that and as soon as she got out of the hospital I took her to the naturopathic doctor and now she's better, no more "death" talk. She now has hope and knows that it will be alright. You have to fight for what you love sometimes. Be encouraged.

[Harleybabe]

msm is great unless you have impaired sulfur oxidation.... which I JUST found out I have....

basically you cannot get rid of the sulfur, impaired sulfur oxidation..... I am still in the research phase ... sorry I cannot be of more help right now.

[Yvette]

Thanks for all your responses.

Harley babe did you take msm? and can you please give me more information about impaired sulfur oxidation. I posted the same topic on another raw foods forum yesterday and a guy gave me a link to a comprehensive website about msm and its side effects. I read something about how people with autism cannot metabolise sulfur and so msm is very bad for them. Is this what you meant?

Before I recommended the msm to my mom I was taking it my self on and off for varying periods of time. I did not get the problem with insomnia like she had, but looking back recently since my moms problems I have been really worried about the effect it may have had on me. There was a time when I suddenly started experiencing vivid bad dreams and nightmares, and looking back I realise that I was probably taking msm during the particularly bad times.

I have done some more research and while I do not have autism I have had an anxiety disorder since I was about 3 years old and anxiety is classed as an autism spectrum disorder. I’m worried I may have damaged my body by taking sulfur. They say people with autism spectrum disorders usually have high levels of mercury in their body. They recommended getting a hair test done to confirm this. I think I will have to do this. My anxiety disorder has been worse since the msm and if there is toxic metals in my body sulfur will only shift them around my body and make my symptoms worse.

When I told my mom that I remembered that msm had caused me to have nightmares she said how could you not have known it was the msm. But I told her that I always had it in mind that msm was completely harmless so never attributed it to that and I thought it was just caused by my anxiety disorder. At the time I was going through a lot of stress and trauma and I just thought there was something wrong with me, now in hindsight after all this research I realise it was the msm that had messed me up. I don’t know if I can reverse the damage, I am so scared.

[Zella Juice]

How long have you been on Raw Foods?

Raw foods have been known to reverse alot of things. Miracles have happened to many people on this site.

Think positively. Juice like crazy every day. Blend leafy greens with your juice. Just make it a regime and tell yourself you will get through this.

My husband is not even 100% raw but he started juicing a couple years ago. At 24 he thought he would have to have surgury on a hemmorid. He could not have a bowl movement without blood coming out ever since he was a child. At 24 he started juicing every day and having green smoothies and it went away on it's own. To me that is a miracle. He stopped eating meat and cheese and has a mostly raw diet. All from juicing. He was not going to go on a diet. He didn't want to change the way he ate. He didn't know how it was possible. But adding the fresh juice made him see it was possible.

Juice Juice Juice. You WILL get better.

[carolg]

Zella,
Great hubby testimony. You may want to find the link about constipation problems that was going on a while back and add this juicing part to help them. Thanks for sharing.

carolg

[Aleesha Sattva]

great post zella!!!

[firefaery]

msm is great unless you have impaired sulfur oxidation.... which I JUST found out I have....

basically you cannot get rid of the sulfur, impaired sulfur oxidation..... I am still in the research phase ... sorry I cannot be of more help right now.

all that means is that you have to open your sulfation pathways...no biggie.

[Yvette]

so how exactly do you open your sulfation pathways?

[firefaery]

There are many ways. You can google and get many hits. This is a common problem in autism spectrum disorders and food allergies. One way that seems to help many people is with epsom salt soaks. Magnesium sulfate literally widens the exit pathways so that the sulfites don't back up and cause neurological problems. There are some people that have discomfort doing this for several reasons (oxalate issues being one) so be sure to do your research before trying ANYTHING.

[Yvette]

My mum never got better. She sadly died in October.

[Dimond]

:( Hope you're okay, Yvette.

[RawKnitster]

I'm so sorry for your loss. I lost my Mother two years ago after a two year battle with cancer. It still makes me sad, but it gets easier.

At this point I hope you do not still blame yourself for introducing her to msm. A "well-qualified nutritionist" suggesting msm was to blame before even examining your Mother should be considered malpractice. Cause and effect had nothing to do with it. Sometimes things simply happen, we don't know why, and we have no control.

I spent a good portion of my adult life regretting that I did not do enough for the women in my family that passed before me. Let me tell you, it is a waste of time and life to have those regrets. If you are having problems with it you might consider getting some help from a therapist or grief counsler.

Our Mothers are in good hands. Best wishes to you moving forward.

[Sweet lips]

I am sorry for your loss.

[curlygirl82]

My heart goes out to you for your loss.

[shashibala]

I am so sorry to hear of this loss. I lost my dad not long ago and I know how it feels. I hope you will heal from the trauma of your Mom's illness and death.
Remember the love you shared. Sincerely, Kendra

[Yvette]

I still blame myself for what has happened; I wish I’d never heard of the raw food movement. I suffer anxiety and depression really bad since this happened. I don’t know how to carry on (me and my mum were so close, she was my best friend and all the family I have; it was just her and me). Life has been hard enough for me as it is because I suffer from social anxiety and my mum was the only person I wasn’t socially anxious around. Now I have no one; I am completely isolated and alone; you can not imagine how that feels. I can’t take anymore; I have decided I will kill myself very soon.

I just wanted to share my experiences as a warning; no one can help me now it is too late.

[Halo Aglow]

Yvette, please do not blame yourself.

It is not your time to go. Your mom wants you to live. She gave birth to you for you to LIVE. And even if she didn't birth you, she raised you to LIVE.

You need someone to talk to. PLEASE talk to someone in person. I am available to talk but I think someone needs to be there with you as well.

Please find support. I do believe there are greivance groups that you can go to for support.

I am sending you much love right now.

[Eva]

Oh my, Yvette. I am so sorry for your loss. I know there must be a reason for the things you've been through. Please feel free to send me a private message if you need someone to talk to. I'm sending some loving hugs and prayers to you.

You know, I have had various reasons to believe that my liver is in need of repair and am working on that at the moment. I have seen MSM recommended (along with cacao, which only works for me under certain limited conditions) soooo many times and never knew there was a problem with it. I am so thankful to have your information. Who knows if you've saved someone else's life or prevented struggles by sharing this.

[Yvette]

Just be careful of this raw food stuff; do not believe everything you are told by these raw food teachers or gurus. They try to build on our fears about health in order to sell us expensive supplements that have not had enough testing to be deemed safe. David Wolfe and Shazzie are notorious for this. When I approached shazzie about why there are no warnings about MSM on her website because it does have some quite serious side effects that I later discovered, she says that trading standards doesn't allow them and yet nowwhere on her website is this explained. I find this greatly misleading as they have lead the consumer to believe the supplement is perfectly safe.

I have come to the realisation that the raw movement is nothing more than a dangerous cult. What is a cult you may ask? A cult isn't all about extreme religious followings Webster also defines them as "A system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator. Great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work. Both of these can certainly refer to the raw food diet.

It is no different to a religious cult, it is full of dogmatism, rules and negative motivations. It sucks people into believing that raw food is the miracle answer to everything that is wrong in their lives when in fact I have found the reverse to be true.

The whole idea of eating raw is founded on fear by instillng in its followers the belief that anything cooked is toxic and destroys enzymes and will cause disease and shortened life. On the other hand they also exaggerate the benefits of raw food lifestyles including the cure of diseases such as cancer.

If you google the cult of raw food you will find information about the truth behind this movement and information that shows David Wolfe and Shazzie as the corrupt people they are. Did you know for instance that David Wolfe founded his entire career on the theft of someone else's work. David's first book, Nature's First Law is actually a plaigarised version of a book called Raw Eating that was written many years ago by an Iranian author called A T Hovannessian.

David Wolfe has set himself up as a self proclaimed messiah of the raw food world. He was taught by Anthony Robbins, and the techniques he uses to manipulate people into buying his expensive supplements by playing on people's fears and insecurities are similar to that of a cult leader.

All in all this raw food movement is highly corrupt and and dangerous and adherence to any cult can only lead to much unhappiness.

[Eva]

I can't say I agree with everything, but these are interesting thoughts. I do think that where there is a money trail, you can often also find greed at the source. I suspect that with all this superfood craze, there are people who did and do not have my best interests or that of you and your mother's best interests as a top priority.

That's a real shame and very sad.

I am so thankful that there are people like Alissa out there -- who even sells classes, food, supplements, etc. -- that are part of the face of what the public sees about raw food. Her philosophy? Just eat whatever suits your body's needs, as long as it's raw.

Mine is pretty similar to that, but I obviously have a brain of my own! I make decisions day to day, and almost always I end up raw. There have been occasions where I have chosen cooked food or "live" but not raw tamari or whatever. And the cool thing is... it's my life = my choices = my body = my health.

I'm not the only one out there with a brain of my own. Yes, there are the sheep who always will simply follow where they are herded. But there are many who simply exist on their own path.

Please, please email me if you want to talk to someone about anything. Someone with an open (enough!) mind and plenty of empathy.

[raweyes]

I also have had bad reactions to various substances. I have had chronic insomnia for about 15 years. It was so bad that I couldn't sleep for days at a time, and the only sleep I got was in the form of short naps now and then. This continued for about 12 years. What helped me was when I began to fast, and then eat raw foods. Foods high in glutamine like almonds, bananas, nuts, spinach, broccoli, walnuts, brown rice, oats, vegetables and citrus helps boost GABA which helps me. Foods high in B-vitamins like brewer's yeast and wheat germ helps. Foods high in tryptophan help like wheat germ, avocados and oats is also helpful. I found that melatonin helps, but I have to take more than the recommended dosage.

[RawPaw]

So sorry for your loss. Food is food. Some things are more important than that. But I'd caution you and say that a low fat fruit and vegetable diet has helped a lot of people regain their life on their own. Man shall not live on bread alone. And food is not the most important thing in life.

[Ebmin7b5]

Hi Yvette and all.

I went searching for anyone that has had side effects from MSM. I literally have chills reading your Mom's symptoms. Many of which I too have been experiencing for the past 5-6 years I've been taking the supplement, and it's increasingly become worse each year. Although, I always had problems sleeping, so I didn't really rule that as a factor, but I do have problems now with my thyroid. At first, I thought the symptoms I had that dr's couldn't diagnose were related merely to a small thyroid problem. However, I had other symptoms that are not related to thyroid. I think your Mom should also see an endocrinologist, as myself.

I too have had serious complications from taking MSM. I found out about this supplement years ago, and I loved how my skin and hair was responding to it. People would say I look far younger than my years. I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread. My joints also didn't hurt, as I have arthritis in my knees from previous sports injuries. I've always tried to look after myself and take care of myself.

I was taking at least a teaspoon a day, which came out to about 5000mcg's a day in one of the powder forms of MSM. Little did I know that the anxiety and neurological disorders I was experiencing and the further blockages and other serious symptoms (even siezures) could be related to my intake of this supplement.

Let me elaborate:

I was a singer and performer and a writing, working successfully behind the scenes in the record and film industry. Not just an amateur...a professional.

Over a period of time, I had suddenly developed a nervousness or muscle problem that made it difficult to speak. I went to do a gig for a producer, and suddenly I couldn't get a note out. I developed anxiety and had a very difficult time breathing. For a horn player/singer..that is the death-mill.

I also started experiencing depression, memory loss, a mysterious blockage on my right side, toe nail fungus, lowered immune system, and other neurological problems which inhibited my air supply and prevented me from talking. It was like I would try to say something, but couldn't produce the sound. At first I thought this was hormonal, like a nervousness, as I would feel better just two days before my menstrual cycle. But during the cycle, the symptoms would return with a vengeance. My personality and other things changed, due to the complications. I thought for years that it was something else.

Recently, I quit taking the MSM. After about two weeks, my voice started coming back and it suddenly became easier to talk and I have less anxiety. People were literally treating me like I was crazy. I also had problems with concentration, etc. I did notice that I would have bowel movements previously when I took the supplements. This has stopped and I have been going through a period of constipation, but started taking colonics (senna/cascada, psyllium, etc) to help me clean out my system.

I still have some type of nervousness or anxiety, but it is not to the extreme nature has it has been in the past. In fact, this is the first time in a long while I could speak and actually start vocalizing without feeling the "shaking." Also, I noticed I did have heart palpitations and other things related to my airways, have suddenly been relieved. At first, I thought this was related to other things.

I'm not 100 percent by any means. I'm not sure if I ever will be. I'm not a person that gets nervous, etc. I am believing this supplement was poisoning me slowly. I do believe that you can recover from some of the symptoms...or at least I notice vast improvements and I'm breathing better. I do have blockage like your Mom as well. and I've also experience blood thinning and bruising - there have been great improvements since quitting this supplement. I'm very confident it has been MSM that has really thrown a "monkey-wrench" into my life.

I would be glad to communicate with anyone that has had reactions to this supplement. I think there should be a warning about it. At least these companies owe it to their consumers to make them aware of possible side-effects that could potentially ruin their life.

Thanks for the forum. Yvette, I wish your Mom good health and I hope for her recovery. :-)

=======


MSM is touted as a wonder supplement. It claims to make your skin clear and radiant, make your hair strong and thick, increase flexibility and relieve pain etc but this is not the full picture. I want to tell you my experience of msm because I have been mislead about this substance and I don’t want others to go through what I have.

My mom and I had heard such good stuff about msm so we were in no doubt about its safety when she stated taking it four months ago to grow her hair. However shortly after taking it she had some worrying side effects . She was taking one teaspoon each morning for two weeks, and then in the second week something strange happened with her sleep cycle and she started sleeping only once every two days, or in other words she would sleep one night and then the next night be awake all night. By the end of that week it dawned on her that it was the msm that had done this, so she stopped it immediately and thought in a few days or so she would go back to normal, but it has now been four months in all and she still cannot sleep!
It was definitely the MSM that disrupted her sleeping cycle as she is on no medication, healthy and was not taking any other supplements, the strange thing is that the MSM seems to have caused some kind of blockage in her body and nothing seems to cut through this blockage and make her better.


She has now spent hundreds of pounds trying every sleep remedy in the health shop and ayurveda and acupuncture and nothing worked at all. She has had to resign to sleeping pills from the doctor, the only thing that will allow her a few hours sleep a night.

We are so desperate to know how to reverse this side effect of the msm. Everywhere we look for information says msm is completely harmless and non toxic and yet it has caused this major side effect for my mom. We have emailed the raw food company we purchased it from (Detox your World) and called them about the situation and were very disheartened when they completely refused to know and kept declaring that msm is so wonderful and couldn’t possibly have caused my mom’s sleeping problem. But we know 100% that it did.

We have come to the realisation that even so called ‘harmless’ things are harmful to some individuals, and it really hurts when people refuse to believe you when you tell them that it has caused a problem. I am so sorry I ever found out about raw foods now, because if I hadn’t I would not have known about MSM, With raw food companies there is no comeback if you ever have any problems with their goods. Right now me and my mom feel so alone with this problem and we wish someone would help us.

I have watched her health go downhill, she is barely recognisable to the person she was before and it has been such a strain on the family. She is 60 years old and until now has been remarkably healthy and never had to take medication for any health problem. But since this has happened she has become suicidal and I’m worried if she doesn’t find a way to get better she will take her life. She often blames me for recommending the msm to her, but I never knew it could be harmful to anyone, everyday I live with the guilt that I have contributed to her distress, and if she doesn’t get better I will never forgive myself.

At the time she took it we were not aware msm is such a powerful liver detoxifier. She has spoken to a very qualified Harley Street Nutritionist whom she is going to see soon who told her over the phone that he believes the msm have upset her nervous system due to the liver (sulfation) pathway it detoxifies. As of now, we don’t know if this can be reversed but we are hoping it can be cured.

In my research on MSM I have also found on a particular forum that many people have terrible vivid nightmares when taking MSM. So bad, that many have had to discontinue use of it.

It is all too easy to get carried away with the good things to do with the raw food lifestyle, but by sharing the bad side it can help others. So if anyone has had a similar situation on MSM or any other side effect please share. If any one can help me with any suggestions on how to cure this problem I would be so grateful.

[sport]

My bottle of MSM says that you should not exceed half a teaspoon per day. Perhaps people are taking too much.
I do think that it helps with my ostioarthritis and would hate to give it up but would reduce to a quarter teaspoon per day and see what happens.

[Dimond]

My mum never got better. She sadly died in October. Please note this comment by the original poster instead of asking still about her mom.

[Ebmin7b5]

Dear Yvette,

I didn't see this in earlier posts. I'm very, very sorry to hear about the loss of your Mom. You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers.



Please note this comment by the original poster instead of asking still about her mom.

[Raw Angel Mom]

Dear Yvette, i didn't see your early post either. I hope you are feeling better. Please reply here to say that you are ok.

I pray for you and thank you for taking the time to share your experience, as some already mentioned you could have saved someone else life. I was taking MSM too as supplement and i am definitely stopping until i find out more about it.

Again, i am so sorry for what happened to your mother, please don't blame yourself for there isn't any way you could have known.

[brydee]

MSM has given me headaches before but i figured that was just the detoxing.

I find that when i first detox i need lots and lots of sleep, but after a month or so, my sleep pattern gets messed up, especially if i am eating lots of supplements. im not qualified to give advice because i dont know enough, but i just thought that if the supplements were not full of caffine or anything bad, then my body was not needing as much sleep because i was eating better?

[maria84]

wow, this really makes me not want to take MSM

i have an anxiety thing too and i'm not about to soak my body in epsom salts everyday

yvette, it's not your fault. you had good intentions for your mom.

[trulyrawhuman]

WOW!.. I just came across this link somehow searching for Raw Food Scams!... I read each and every post carefully.. and it does not leave with a good feeling ....to say the least.... I registered here just to post a note to this topic. I had no idea that MSM can have such negative effects... i was considering taking this for CANDIDA .. as the other big SUPER water the ADYA CLARITY did not do anything .. after having spent 200 dollars.. hopefully it hasnt caused any damage that i am still unaware...

I agree that the Raw Food Movement although it may have began as something helpful for the body as slowly or rapidly .. who knows ...turned into a huge SCAM.. it has now become a Supplement and Super food money making machine....

here is my experience on it...

I was looking for reviews on 'Adya Clarity'.... when i say reviews i was looking for all 'Good', 'Neutral' or'Bad' reviews.. but was very curious that there was ONLY 'Good' reviews.....interesting.. I was wanting to heal from a medium case of diarrhea issues and a naturapath wondered if it could be candida related... i was following these rawfoodworld 'M and A' people at that time and found that they were selling this latest and greatest Adya Clarity for 200 dollars that they claimed HEALED A of candida... so i decided to spend my savings on it...reasoning it as my health is more important than money... i drank it... and it did not change anything for me... my case was 'neutral' hoping it has not caused any harm...

well recently i found that these same people 'Rawfoodworld' are selling it at half price 'At cost' specials ...the first thing that comes to mind is .. why is it being sold at 100% profit? the second is, is it really 'At cost' now or is it still marked up? Why is it so expensive when Black mica is found cheaply? It was pretty frustrating that there are people out there that show that they are interested in the health of people but are very similar to car salesmen just selling something different...the targeted group is people who are trying to heal...

Ofcourse posting this frustration on their youtube links only led to being deleted.. why would they keep it? wont it affect their sales and their life style depends on it.. M and A remind me of the characters in the movie 'the Jonses' if you havent seen it, worthwhile watching! just selling products thats about it... even when they are showing a recipe for a Smoothie... they are still selling products...it is unreal how people can get sucked into believing anything... it is no different than Fox News..


Thank you yvette for posting here and you very well may have helped a lot of us out there considering taking MSM..

Hoping you are Still Alive and if you are KNOW that you are helping others immensly.. I am no expert on LOVE but know that it can have its magical times...Try it on yourself!

[RoseGreen]

I work in pharmaceuticals, and was hoping to shed a tiny bit of light on this subject. For myself I have had great success with MSM, but I did research before selecting a brand.

In the United States, the FDA only very loosely (in my opinion) regulates herbal and dietary supplements. From the FDA website:

"As with most foods, there is no requirement for manufacturers of most dietary supplements to provide evidence of product safety to FDA prior to marketing. Accordingly, FDA regulates the safety of dietary supplements primarily through a post-market evaluation of whether the product is adulterated under one of the provisions of the FDC Act. The burden of proving lack of safety rests with the Federal government."

Prescription and over-the-counter medications as well as biologicals must pass rigorous clinical trials of safety, purity and efficacy before being allowed to be dispensed, and are subject to various levels of recalls after marketing. Even adverse events from vaccines can be reported to VAERS [Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System]. Why supplements are not held to similiar standards, I don't quite know. Very often, it is not the active ingredient itself which is dangerous, but the fillers in the product.

"There is a 75-day pre-market notification requirement for dietary supplements that contain certain dietary ingredients that were not marketed in the United States before October 15, 1994, or “new dietary ingredients.” Specifically, the manufacturer or distributor of a supplement that contains one or more new dietary ingredients must submit a pre-market notification to FDA unless all new dietary ingredients in the product have been present without chemical alteration in the food supplement as articles used for food. In its notification to FDA, the manufacturer or distributor of the supplement must submit information, including citation to published articles, that forms the basis for the firm’s conclusion that the dietary supplement containing the new dietary ingredient will reasonably be expected to be safe. Unless there is a history of use or other evidence of safety establishing that the new dietary ingredient will reasonably be expected to be safe when used as recommended or suggested in the labeling of the dietary supplement, the supplement is deemed adulterated."

Only a 75 day notification prior to marketing? But evaluations post-marketing? This is why I am careful about supplements and take nothing herbal, because herbals in particular can react badly with prescription and nonprescription medications with serious consequences unless listed as GRAS [Generally Regarded as Safe].


In conclusion: If you or someone you know has an adverse reaction to something, PLEASE make it known.! It will keep others safe and force manufacturers to raise their levels of quality/purity.

[Stina]

I'm wondering if there is a superior source. David Wolfe sells some that is incredibly expensive.

[rawbroccoli]

I was taking MSM for a week, and I started to have difficulty breathing. I want tight skin since I have a lot of weight to lose. But, I don't need it that badly. I had to stop taking it, it was really scary.

[Aleesha Sattva]

I took MSN for months... never had an issue with it (that I can remember)... other than weird dreams... but i was also fasting and since then I've discovered that I have weird dreams while fasting... so it was probably that.

Just thought I'd chime in... since everyone doesn't have a negative reaction to it.

[lovenlife]

I took it quite a while ago and had no problems. I just started taking it again. Not worried.

[kittykat76]

I just would like to share that I had a similar experience with msm powder...I took only twice a teaspoon in 2 days and it totally messed me up as if I had taken drugs. I wasnt able to sleep anymore and I hardly could work the next day as I felt extremly unwell and unrelaxed, my nervs were totally blunt...
I luckily had booked a colonic irrigation that day and somehow I felt newborn again after the treatment and the negative feelings from the msm had disappeared.
I find it very dangerous that these kind of side effects can happen from a so called harmless detoxing powder...be careful!!!!!

[Zipfelmuetze]

Hmm, this is indeed rather scary and unfortunate. I currently take the MSM from Trader Joe's (1000MG pills). I have not noticed anything weird or abnormal and I began taking it while on a SAD diet and still taking it now while 80% raw and a lot of green juicing. It makes my hair feel strong and thicker and is growing nicely. I typically have thin and limp hair. I even notice that my hair does not feel as thick if I forget to take an MSM pill. I was certainly of the impression that one could not go wrong with MSM. I'm starting to believe that one could go wrong with just about anything, and that every single person reacts differently to anything.

As much as I love green juices the idea that I may be receiving alkaloids from juicing too much of the same thing is also a scary thought. The concept: 'everything in moderation' certainly comes to mind.

[Raw Angel Mom]

I only take that in the morning, i already had sleeping disorder so it didn't seem to agravate it. I am actually sleeping better now since doing maca. Maca regulate your hormone.

[Arky]

I literally have chills reading your Mom's symptoms. Many of which I too have been experiencing for the past 5-6 years I've been taking the supplement, and it's increasingly become worse each year. Although, I always had problems sleeping, so I didn't really rule that as a factor, but I do have problems now with my thyroid.

I too have had serious complications from taking MSM.

Little did I know that the anxiety and neurological disorders I was experiencing and the further blockages and other serious symptoms (even siezures) could be related to my intake of this supplement.

Let me elaborate:

Over a period of time, I had suddenly developed a nervousness or muscle problem that made it difficult to speak. I went to do a gig for a producer, and suddenly I couldn't get a note out. I developed anxiety and had a very difficult time breathing.

I also started experiencing depression, memory loss, a mysterious blockage on my right side, toe nail fungus, lowered immune system, and other neurological problems which inhibited my air supply and prevented me from talking. It was like I would try to say something, but couldn't produce the sound. At first I thought this was hormonal, like a nervousness, as I would feel better just two days before my menstrual cycle. But during the cycle, the symptoms would return with a vengeance. My personality and other things changed, due to the complications.

Recently, I quit taking the MSM. After about two weeks, my voice started coming back and it suddenly became easier to talk and I have less anxiety. People were literally treating me like I was crazy. I also had problems with concentration, etc. I did notice that I would have bowel movements previously when I took the supplements. This has stopped and I have been going through a period of constipation, but started taking colonics (senna/cascada, psyllium, etc) to help me clean out my system.

I still have some type of nervousness or anxiety, but it is not to the extreme nature has it has been in the past. In fact, this is the first time in a long while I could speak and actually start vocalizing without feeling the "shaking." Also, I noticed I did have heart palpitations and other things related to my airways, have suddenly been relieved. At first, I thought this was related to other things.

=======



I had determined not to post on this board anymore, but I can't, with clear conscience, stand by and say nothing about the unfortunate experiences some people have related in this thread. In spite of my discontentment with moderation practices on this board, there's a lot of decent members here, trying to help each other, and, for my part, I like to help others, too...


Whilst there is invariably more than one possibility when investigating health problems, I feel there is one issue in particular which has not been discussed here, and which can specifically relate to disturbances in the function of sulphation pathways in the liver, and Ebmin7b5 - the symptoms you have specifically described correlate very strongly indeed with what I am about to suggest.

It's a curious thing that a couple of my most recent posts have covered the same topic - I've known about the topic for a long time (as a consequence of personal health experiences), but, just recently, there seem to have been a spate of posts on this board, from various people, which tally with it. Coincidence? Who can say...

Anyway, Ebmin7b5, I'll keep this brief - sulphation pathways in the liver can be disrupted by certain heavy metals such as mercury and arsenic. That's point 1.

Point 2 is that heavy metals such as mercury and lead are POTENT neurotoxins which mess not only with brain function but with the entire nervous system as a whole, giving rise to a wide spectrum of nervous disorders. Poor concentration (and impaired short term memory), for example, are absolutely classic textbook symptoms for mercury toxicity, as are shakes/tremors.

Point 3 is that mercury is also a potent endocrine disruptor - it'll happily disrupt adrenal and thyroid function, and you have mentioned thyroid issues. You also mentioned:

"changes in your personality" - lead, copper, mercury - all of these, owing to their potent neurotoxicity, can exert profound negative influences upon personality - e.g. depression, excessive procrastination, lethargy/lack of motivation, extreme mood swings (esp. rapid anger) - it's a very long list...

"a mysterious blockage in my right side" - if close to the ribcage, this could suggest biliary issues (heavy metals, for example, can impede production of bile and exhaust reserves of amino acids such as taurine and glycine, both of which are required in order to keep bile soluble - less solubility can thus lead to coagulation of bile and, potentially, formation of gallstones etc.). If lower down than the ribcage, perhaps near the appendix, then it is not unknown for heavy metals such as lead to cause 'phantom' appendix discomfort. Strange but true.

"toenail fungus & lowered immune system" (fungal and yeast issues are often a reflection of a suppressed immune system). Heavy metal toxicity is well-known to bring about immune suppression, for several bio-physiological reasons.

"heart palpitations" - as I mentioned in another recent post, heavy metals such as antimony can also produce symptoms such as heart palpitations (http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showthread.php?p=658956#post658956)

As far as the breathing goes - have you, at any point in your life, been around dust from the removal of old paint? (paint manufactured prior to 1978). This is high in lead and is known to absorb very well through the lungs. The following quote may or may not be relevant to your lung symptoms but I'll offer it to you in the hope that it'll pique your interest to investigate this whole heavy-metals issue further:

"Lungs - Prone to inflammatory response from mercury induced oxidation of cell membrane EFAs.

...Asthma may be induced directly by alterations in signaling molecule function or indirectly by allergy induction. Bronchial spasms may be due to low progesterone"
p.48, Amalgam Illness, Diagnosis and Treatment - Andrew Hall Cutler

Also:


"Mercury concentrates in and near...the hypothalamus. The hypothalamus is responsible for your memory, moods and emotions, and how your hormones, breathing and heartbeat work. It also concentrates in your liver, which is responsible for getting rid of natural and synthetic chemicals... Mercury is also absorbed by the immune system, and makes it attack innocent bystanders like pollen or your body parts instead of the bacteria and viruses it is supposed to fight."
p.30, Amalgam Illness, Diagnosis and Treatment - Andrew Hall Cutler


Since mercury can impair bile production (basically, it really punishes and disrupts the function of the entire hepato-biliary (liver-gallbladder) system), not enough bile means, amongst other things, not enough natural stimulation of the bowel, which means potential constipation. Such a scenario is also self-compounding because heavy metals such as mercury and copper are ordinarily excreted via the bile - if bile production/emission is compromised then so is excretion of these heavy metals, and so on, in a vicious-circle. This is a biggie for copper, and Andy Cutler often points out that the symptoms of copper poisoning can also be very similar, if not indistinguishable, from those of mercury poisoning.

Incidentally, if anyone reading this suffers from an inflammatory bowel condition, you might find relevant another recent post discussing related aspects of this: http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showthread.php?p=656114#post656114


...See where I'm going with all this?


I highly recommend you obtain 2 books by Andrew Hall Cutler. Details at www.NoAmalgam.com, and obtainable either directly from him, there, or via Amazon etc.

In addition to these 2 books, you'll need to seriously consider getting a Doctor's Data ('DDI') 'Hair Elements' Test (not the 'Toxic Elements' test). You can obtain this directly from DirectLabs.com, and it's very economical. Please note that interpreting hair analyses is NOT as simple as just looking at what readings are high or low - Andy Cutler's books will help you understand how to accurately interpret them. It's not rocket science but you need to follow some clearly-described statistical procedures. For example, one who is mercury toxic might nonetheless receive test results with a low mercury reading. This is to do with the fact that mercury can derange mineral transport in the cells in the body, thus the cells may be rendered incapable of excreting mercury via the hair follicles. Also note that low readings of various metals in the hair can also be due to the toxic exposure having happened years ago, leading to the metals being 'stashed away' in various cells of the body, rather than freely floating around. I'm describing this crudely for the sake of brevity, so please get the above books and learn the details for yourself.

Please listen to me very carefully - do NOT be tempted to follow the advice of some doctors or patients to use chlorella or cilantro/coriander! They can be extremely dangerous if you do, in fact, turn out to have heavy metal intoxication. This suggestion to avoid these substances is not my 'opinion'; it's simply based upon having learned why and how they can potentially represent a risk to heavy-metal-toxic individuals. Chelation is a very, very tricky business and must be done right or you can cause serious neurological damage.

(CONT. next Post, below...)

[Arky]

You may not have heavy metal toxicity, but, given the symptoms you have briefly described, and in addition to the possible liver sulphation-pathway issues, re' the MSM side-effects, you'd be daft not to get yourself tested, as described above, particularly considering how very cheap it is to do so. Heavy metal toxicity is a topic mainstream doctors have little or no training in, so they very frequently fail to recognise the symptoms. Several doctors and specialists failed to diagnose me, so I speak from personal experience here (note that MSM has never been an issue for me, but heavy metals affect different people in a wide spectrum of different ways).


It's notable that the symptoms you describe have, in your case, had a close association with your consumption of MSM, and have relented a little now that you've ceased consuming MSM.

...So why I am I still suggesting that you may have heavy metal toxicity? Doesn't it seem 'obvious' that it was all just caused by MSM?

Well... "NO".

Whilst is IS possible it was all just caused by your body reacting to MSM, consider this:

1) As I have described above, in moderate detail, many of your symptoms match those of heavy metal poisoning.

2) In heavy-metal-chelation circles, it is very frequently discussed that the biochemistry of sulphur-containing compounds is specifically-relevant with regard to heavy metals. It's all to do with sulfhydryl bonds (or 'thiols'), which most sulphur compounds only contain one of. They are thus able to free heavy metals from their locations in the body of a metal-poisoned person, BUT they do so by forming a relatively weak bond and the consequence of this is that they are prone to 'letting-go' of these metals before they can be safely excreted from the body. A major consequence of this is that metals can be temporarily 'freed-up' to cause more damage to the delicate cells of the body. This is why a person wishing to chelate heavy metals from their body must be EXTREMELY careful what substances they use and how they use them, but that is a topic in itself and lies outside the scope of this particular thread - (read Cutler's books for in-depth explanation on this - he's developed an innovative approach to chelation which is infinitely safer than anything that's gone before).

SO...bringing all of this back to the current topic, MSM is Methyl Sulfonyl Methane. It's a sulphur-containing compound!

Now, I should point out that I lack a chemistry doctorate and MSM is not conclusively acknowledged to fall foul of the above-described single-sulfhydryl-bond pitfalls, BUT, nonetheless, it is reported by some heavy-metal-poisoned individuals to cause problems. It is not unreasonable to suggest, in our discussion of MSM, here, then, that it may, instead of acting as a toxic substance in its own right, have in fact SEEMED toxic to you simply by virtue of possibly being responsible for freeing-up pre-existing heavy metal toxins within your body. Since your symptoms so closely resemble those of heavy metal toxicity, it is my contention that this is perhaps the more likely explanation in your particular case, Ebmin7b5. In addition, and until you have conclusively eliminated the possibility of heavy metal toxicity in your case, I suggest you avoid not only MSM, cilantro and chlorella, but also avoid Alpha-Lipoic Acid (ALA is a good chelator but is extremely dangerous to a metal-toxic individual unless taken in a highly-specific manner, again outlined in Cutler's books).

Take care, and good luck with your testing. Remember, if you go ahead with this, there are many labs that offer such a test, but I recommend DDI because it is one of the most comprehensive (remember, get the 'Hair Elements' test, NOT the 'Toxic Elements' test), and because the DDI is the specific one discussed in Cutler's books and is thus the easiest to interpret with the aid of his books.



@ Yvette - I hadn't realised how old this thread is, so, reading back through it, I am sorry for your loss.

There are many possible symptoms relating to heavy metal toxicity but one common symptom is disruption of circadian rhythms and insomnia (mercury interferes with melatonin metabolism, for example) as well as unusually frequent night-time urges to urinate. Whilst I understand that it is a sore subject for you, I hate to think of you feeling guilty about the effect the MSM seemed to have on your mother. I hope you can see, from the above discussion, that it is quite possible that the MSM may not necessarily have been 'toxic' to your mum, but that it perhaps did nothing more than highlight a pre-existing condition (e.g. did she have dental amalgams? Did she have annual flu shots? (these contain 'Thimerosal', a mercury-based preservative).


All the best.


Oh, and there's some related discussion on heavy metal issues in another recent thread:

http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showthread.php?p=658944#post658944

[Mary Kay]

Wow, Arky! Thanks for taking the time to write that "dissertation." Very nice of you!

So, to put it in "English" LOL ---you believe the sulfur compounds within the MSM may have triggered the release of some toxic heavy metals that may be stored in some people's bodies? Correct?

Very interesting.

I also have just started taking MSM. don't notice anything, but.... Blech. How do all of you take it? I assumed that because it comes in a powder, it wouldn't taste so bad. Yuck.

Thanks again!

Mary Kay

[Arky]

So, to put it in "English" LOL ---you believe the sulfur compounds within the MSM may have triggered the release of some toxic heavy metals that may be stored in some people's bodies? Correct?

Mary Kay

Sorry it was a bit long-winded - if I'd just written it as succinctly as you did, then no-one would take the hypothesis seriously (and, of course, they still might not! LOL ;) )

Yes, although please note that I'm not stating it as a fact; I'm merely discussing it as a reasonable hypothesis, on the basis of which to get a hair analysis done. It's cheap, easy and may turn out to be a rosetta stone for one or more of the people who've contributed to this thread with MSM-associated problems of their own.

I no longer use MSM but never had problems (at least that I was aware of) with it, even though I do have heavy metal issues. I only ever used it ad-hoc, though, never frequently. Everyone is different...

[Arky]

...just revisiting a portion of Ebmin7b5's post that I didn't fully address yesterday, I noticed something else intriguing.

As I mentioned yesterday. Mercury really messes with the endocrine system, and consequently progesterone is commonly suppressed by mercury.

Ebmin7b5 mentioned progesterone in her post, as follows:





...I also started experiencing depression, memory loss, a mysterious blockage on my right side, toe nail fungus, lowered immune system, and other neurological problems which inhibited my air supply and prevented me from talking. It was like I would try to say something, but couldn't produce the sound. At first I thought this was hormonal, like a nervousness, as I would feel better just two days before my menstrual cycle. But during the cycle, the symptoms would return with a vengeance. My personality and other things changed, due to the complications. I thought for years that it was something else.
=======

Now, I quoted Cutler's book yesterday, as follows:

"Lungs - Prone to inflammatory response from mercury induced oxidation of cell membrane EFAs.

...Asthma may be induced directly by alterations in signaling molecule function or indirectly by allergy induction. Bronchial spasms may be due to low progesterone"
p.48, Amalgam Illness, Diagnosis and Treatment - Andrew Hall Cutler


Taking a quick look at the female cycle on Wiki ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menstrual_cycle ), one can see that progesterone peaks just a few days prior to menses, and completely crashes to zero during menses.

This, too, appears to tally closely with Cutler's description of the effects of mercury upon progesterone and, as a consequence, upon the lungs. It is not unreasonable to suppose, then, that mercury may be suppressing progesterone (and thus increasing likelihood of bronchial spasms) for most of any given month, but that the endocrine system is, for a very short number of days, when it peaks during the monthly cycle, nonetheless succeeding in raising progesterone levels just sufficiently high enough to meet the healthy threshold where bronchial spasms are not generated.

If anyone knows Ebmin7b5 personally, would they please e-mail her, as I now notice she appears to be inactive on this board now. The discussion here might be of help to her. Thanks

[Mary Kay]

Oh, Arky,

Your long-winded description was ABSOLUTELY appreciated....I just wanted to make sure I got it right.

Also, very nice of you to try to contact that poster.

Thanks again,

Mary Kay

[MysticTree]

those are very interesting suggestions. I will look into it more - although I don't take any of the powders and pills that claim super-status, I am interested in the heavy metal aspect.

Thanks for posting the info.

Georgina

[Raw Angel Mom]

I am not sure why Arky you say to stay away from those importants ingredient to neutralize heavy metal.

I cannot denial my personal experience or neither i can use my personal experience to make the truth for other.

MSM neutralize mercury (Sulfure disolve mercury)
Cilantro does the same

Like i said, i cannot denial my personal experience and witness dramatic result after using this.

My daughter has heavy metal poisonning. After testing it on me first, i put some msm in her smoothie. I was able to see dramatic improvement. She would drink the smoothie through the day combined with my milk.

I only put a very small amount and continued to do that up to now.

Anyway, just sharing because it would be sad that others would go into fear to take MSM or to eat cilantro. I think people need to give it a try if it feels right to them.

Now, i know that green apple, apple cider vinager and other sour food neutralize the alluminium.

This is about doing what feels right and resonnate with you. I followed my guidance to help my little girl and she is doing so fantastic.

All the best!

p.s My daughter got re-tested again and she barely have trace of the condition she was diagnosed in 2008. I know that her food, herbs etc... had played a major big roll.

[Arky]

...I will look into it more - although I don't take any of the powders and pills that claim super-status, I am interested in the heavy metal aspect.

Yes, the whole heavy metal thing was a real eye-opener for me when I was forced to learn about it in depth for myself. I'd known about heavy metals, on a casual basis, for years, but when I delved deeply into it, a great many pieces of the health puzzle began to slot into place for me. What came as a surprise to me is the common substances in the natural health movement (which I've mentioned above) which can be a serious hazard for individuals with heavy metal poisoning - a key point regarding which is that, as I have discussed at length in this thread, many, many people with serious heavy metal toxicity issues are, for many months or years, completely unaware that they have heavy metal toxicity at all. I myself was one such person.

I never imagined that cilantro/coriander could be so hazardous to me because I had no idea I had metal toxicity, for example (KD Ironside has an unfortunate tale to tell about cilantro, and please note that parsley is apparently quite similar to cilantro: http://whatidontknow.net/blog/playing-with-fire/). Same goes for ALA - I've purchased Alpha Lipoic Acid in the past - thankfully only once and I somehow got away without any serious metal redistribution side-effects (same goes for a bottle of NDF I once purchased and thankfully never finished). ALA is very widely available in health food stores and at doses which, to a heavy metal poisoned individual, could (potentially) cause major neurological damage. That's a really sobering thought. I should add that I owe Andy Cutler a debt of gratitude, on so many levels, not least for his astute approach to chelation protocols, but also for his fantastic efforts in educating victims of heavy metal toxicity who are so often let down by the unfortunate ignorance of so many doctors and specialists with regard to heavy metal toxicity symptoms, testing, diagnosis, and treatment. I owe a significant amount of my understanding of heavy metal issues to his skilled efforts in collating and interpreting material from technically-complex scientific journal papers.

In short, I now appreciate that anyone who has unexplained symptoms matching those of heavy metal intoxication would be wise to at least avoid the above substances until heavy metals have been ruled out in their individual case. MSM would, perhaps, appear to be a similar risky substance, for reasons previously discussed, but rather than vilify MSM, it'd be wiser to recognise that if one has an undiagnosed root cause of physiological symptoms, even the most innocent of food substances (cilantro) can, potentially, pose a health risk. This is not intended to imply that one should become fearful or paranoid, but merely that it pays to doggedly and tenaciously research one's own health issues, in order to most quickly and accurately arrive at potential answers, and to understand the various pitfalls surrounding them. It took me much longer than I'd like, but I learned a great deal along the way (still am learning a great deal along the way) and had I not been so determined in my efforts to get to the bottom of my health issues, looking deeper than the mainstream surface explanations, I would probably be consuming coriander etc. as recommended by various 'natural health' websites, and even some professional doctors (e.g. Dr Klinghardt - tinyurl.com/64sxy5q ), with a less-than-rosy prognosis, as a consequence.

Caveat emptor.

[Arky]

I am not sure why Arky you say to stay away from those importants ingredient to neutralize heavy metal.

I cannot denial my personal experience or neither i can use my personal experience to make the truth for other.

MSM neutralize mercury (Sulfure disolve mercury)
Cilantro does the same

Like i said, i cannot denial my personal experience and witness dramatic result after using this.

My daughter has heavy metal poisonning. After testing it on me first, i put some msm in her smoothie. I was able to see dramatic improvement. She would drink the smoothie through the day combined with my milk.

I only put a very small amount and continued to do that up to now.

Anyway, just sharing because it would be sad that others would go into fear to take MSM or to eat cilantro. I think people need to give it a try if it feels right to them.

This is about doing what feels right and resonnate with you. I followed my guidance to help my little girl and she is doing so fantastic.

All the best!

p.s My daughter got re-tested again and she barely have trace of the condition she was diagnosed in 2008.


Hi Raw Angel Mom, just to answer your queries (which I know were said in good spirit), I said what I said because I've doggedly researched the topic & thus come to an appreciation of the reasons why certain natural substances can represent a potential risk to a heavy-metal-intoxicated individual. What follows, then, is meant in the spirit of friendly discussion; it's absolutely not meant negatively towards you personally in any way, ok? I'm merely addressing the issues you raised in your post.




...it would be sad that others would go into fear to take MSM or to eat cilantro. I think people need to give it a try if it feels right to them.

This is about doing what feels right and resonnate with you.


I agree with the spirit of what you said above, but unfortunately, the reality is that many heavy-metal-intoxicated people have experienced dramatic worsening of symptoms after consuming cilantro - this can involve actual damage which is difficult or, sometimes, impossible to heal. This is why it is, arguably, better to avoid a risky substance rather than 'try it', although, of course, it is every person's right to do as they please with their own health.




MSM neutralize mercury (Sulfure disolve mercury)
Cilantro does the same

Like i said, i cannot denial my personal experience and witness dramatic result after using this.

My daughter has heavy metal poisonning. After testing it on me first, i put some msm in her smoothie. I was able to see dramatic improvement.

There is a major difference between redistributing mercury to other parts of the body (e.g. the thyroid, liver, brain etc.) and successfully chelating it from the body. Redistribution might, in some cases, result in apparent remission of symptoms but it does not necessarily imply that the metal has actually left the body. Please understand that important distinction.

I don't dispute that you may have noticed subjective improvements in the symptoms of your daughter, and I'm happy for you both if that is the case, but I know of no test that can conclusively prove that no heavy metal burden remains. Remember that mercury has a specific affinity for the brain. When you test for heavy metals, you cannot test the brain itself - unless you're willing to undergo a neural biopsy which, of course, is an utterly impractical proposition.

You have not described what your daughter's health issue has been (i.e. her symptoms - are/were they mostly neurological or physiological?), but, if you do sufficient research, you will find reports of many individuals who, for example, used various natural substances in an attempt to chelate mercury from the body, some of whom experienced some early success, but then had major worsening of symptoms as time went on. It is vital to understand that removing mercury from the body is NOT the same as removing mercury from the brain. If one has symptoms of mercury toxicity in the organs, for example, these might be alleviated temporarily through the use of cilantro, only to find, weeks or months later, that many neurological symptoms may begin to manifest because the cilantro allowed mercury to exit the organs and travel across the blood-brain barrier.

Please note that sulphur and cilantro do not 'neutralise' mercury - no practical solution currently exists to accomplish neutralisation of mercury. Mercury remains hazardous to the human body, regardless of what substance someone injects, ingests or whatever. All one can currently do is inject/ingest one or more substances with the hopeful aim of successfully 'detaching' mercury (or other heavy metals) from their current locations within the various cells of the body, and (hopefully) successfully escorting them out of the body without inadvertently dropping them and/or causing further oxidative damage in the process. Substances such as DMSA, DMPS, and ALA apparently achieve a more reliable chemical bond with heavy metals than do substances such as sulphur, and are thus less likely to let go of them before they've been escorted from the body via the bile/bowel or the urinary system.

I'm not a chemist and I make no claims to such. However, Andy Cutler does have the necessary qualifications and if you read his books you'll attain a thorough understanding of the principles I am attempting to summarise here.

Please note that I am not personally decreeing that people must not consume MSM if they have heavy metal issues - as I stated earlier, some heavy metal intoxicated patients have experienced problems with MSM, not all. However, I am urging them to be 'safe rather than sorry' and at least avoid it until they've read up on the potential hazards and can then make a better-informed decision for themselves.Ebmin7b5's symptoms that I discussed in my original post do match those of mercury poisoning, and she additionally stated that these symptoms seem to worsen or reduce according to her consumption of MSM. I merely pointed out that there was a correlation which I offered a possible logical explanation for. I have nothing personally against MSM and I was fortunate that although I do have heavy metal intoxication, my usage of MSM left me unscathed :)

I'm happy for you that your daughter appears to have made some health improvement using natural substances. When I researched heavy metals for my own needs, I desperately wanted to heal myself using only natural substances (partly why I bought lots of chlorella and some NDF), but the more I read, the more I was forced to concede that this is not the safest way to go for anyone who does not want to unnecessarily risk their neurological health.

To reiterate: Redistribution is a major risk when ingesting substances which alter the chemical bonds of metals within body tissues, and this redistribution might, in some cases, result in apparent remission of symptoms but it does not necessarily imply that the metal has actually left the body. I know of no test that can conclusively prove that no heavy metal burden remains. ...Mercury has a specific affinity for the brain. When you test for heavy metals, you cannot test the brain itself - unless you're willing to undergo a neural biopsy. The link I posted in the previous answer (http://whatidontknow.net/blog/playing-with-fire/) discusses someone's personal experience of the potential dangers of using cilantro for chelation purposes.

As I said, I'm not trying to scare people, or to dictate to them what substances to ingest - I'm just discussing possible connections and alerting them to possible hazards to help people make more informed choices - their own choices. After all, isn't that what this whole thread has been about - unforeseen and regrettable symptoms arising from consumption of MSM? (irrespective of whether the mechanism underlying the symptoms was directly caused by MSM or only indirectly).

This thread started out as someone feeling frustrated with MSM and I have been at pains to point out that MSM might not necessarily have been directly responsible for what that person experienced - in that sense, I've indirectly reassured people about MSM, I suppose. The heavy metals connection only arose because of the experiences and symptoms Ebmin7b5 described :)

Nonetheless, I wish you and your daughter well. I hope all works out for you both.

[Arky]

Raw Angel Mom, I just wanted to add a little to what I typed yesterday. Unfortunately, I was at work when I typed the above reply, yesterday, so I was rushing, in between various other tasks, to type and post without getting into trouble.

What I said then still stands - namely, that there are very serious risks attached to the use of natural substances such as cilantro etc. with heavy metal issues.

That said, it wasn't my intention to imply that use of such substances does not do any good - it is quite possible that you have succeeded in removing some heavy metal burden from your daughter's body.

In a nutshell, then, my intention was to say that yes, natural substances can play a part in chelation, just as specialised synthetic substances can (e.g. DMSA, DMPS), but the critical point when making decisions regarding which options to use is their relative degrees of risk-vs-safety.


Again, there's a very, very brief overview of a few chelation approaches in the following blog entry (not mine):

tinyurl.com/64sxy5q



As I mentioned yesterday, I am a very 'natural health' oriented person, and was eager to use natural substances for my own chelation efforts, even buying a few hundred dollars worth of chlorella, NDF etc. However, it was only when I delved deeper into the topic (something experience has taught me the value; even necessity, of doing) that I began to learn the basics of the chemistry of chelation and the attendant risks of using non-specialised substances for chelation purposes.

Unfortunately, many people do not appreciate the value of deeper research into topic areas which affect their health and I myself was almost a victim of this - only hard experience of past mistakes relating to insufficient research in other health areas led me to the habit I now have of digging deeper these days. In my 'digging deeper' into the subject of heavy metals chelation, I will forever be thankful for the efforts of Andy Cutler, who has been a guiding light for me and thousands of others in this subject area. He's an unassuming man who personally experienced mercury poisoning and who, by good fortune, had the intelligence and requisite technical education and training to tackle the chemical complexities of the subject area. By further good fortune, he he's also a socially-responsible human being who has chosen to share his valuable meta-research and insights with others. On a theoretical level, chelation can be a very complex topic which relatively few people have the qualifications or training to understand (and which is why it is tempting to take shortcuts in the belief that anything truly natural 'must be safe'). I myself lack the qualifications and training to understand complex chemically-orientated research papers and textbooks - Cutler, though, has presented this information in a distilled, summarised, accessible format, which has allowed me sufficient understanding to understand the aforementioned potential risks/pitfalls and thus to make informed choices.


Consequently, I urge you (and anyone else reading this who suspects they may have heavy-metal-related health issues) to acquaint yourself with his writings (perhaps your local library might be willing to obtain them on your behalf?).

[Raw Angel Mom]

Aky, you make good points of course and thank you for sharing so much. I of course hear you and hear your point.

I also researched but mainly i had to discern and trust my guts. I think anyone can find statements to justify one side or the other. Perhaps the best approach is to see an homeopath or someone that really knows about herbs. It would be a safe approach in my humble opinion.

I have seen the precaustion about MSM. It is why i tried it on me first and only give a little bit to my child after experimenting with me. I cannot denial the result with her, it was noticeable like a connection was starting to establish.

She had heavy metal poisoning and she was diagnose with pdd-nos. I knew again from my guts, that it was something else then pdd-nos and suspected the heavy metal poisoning.

If you do an experiment and add sulfure to mercury, it will turn into a white powder.

What made me use msm was that i recalled reading someone saying that she had autism and since she was doing msm, it helped her tremendously. This hit home with me and it is why i used that.

I don't go with fear, i don't go either with being careless but i know that each time that i have followed my guidance, i have never been deceived.

All is well.

[Arky]

I never imagined that cilantro/coriander could be so hazardous to me because I had no idea I had metal toxicity, for example (KD Ironside has an unfortunate tale to tell about cilantro, and please note that parsley is apparently quite similar to cilantro: http://whatidontknow.net/blog/playing-with-fire/). Same goes for ALA - I've purchased Alpha Lipoic Acid in the past - thankfully only once and I somehow got away without any serious metal redistribution side-effects (same goes for a bottle of NDF I once purchased and thankfully never finished). ALA is very widely available in health food stores and at doses which, to a heavy metal poisoned individual, could (potentially) cause major neurological damage. That's a really sobering thought.

In short, I now appreciate that anyone who has unexplained symptoms matching those of heavy metal intoxication would be wise to at least avoid the above substances until heavy metals have been ruled out in their individual case. MSM would, perhaps, appear to be a similar risky substance, for reasons previously discussed, but rather than vilify MSM, it'd be wiser to recognise that if one has an undiagnosed root cause of physiological symptoms, even the most innocent of food substances (cilantro) can, potentially, pose a health risk. This is not intended to imply that one should become fearful or paranoid, but merely that it pays to doggedly and tenaciously research one's own health issues, in order to most quickly and accurately arrive at potential answers, and to understand the various pitfalls surrounding them. It took me much longer than I'd like, but I learned a great deal along the way (still am learning a great deal along the way) and had I not been so determined in my efforts to get to the bottom of my health issues, looking deeper than the mainstream surface explanations, I would probably be consuming coriander etc. as recommended by various 'natural health' websites, and even some professional doctors (e.g. Dr Klinghardt - tinyurl.com/64sxy5q ), with a less-than-rosy prognosis, as a consequence.

Caveat emptor.



Update: - quite by chance, I unwittingly discovered another possible problem substance last night. Again, I am fortunate that it does not appear to have caused any severe or novel neurological symptoms, but within 20 minutes it gave me a killer headache and worsened my mercury-related tinnitus (severity remains unabated since last night). The substance is Boswellic Acid (Frankincense) - this is a very powerful natural anti-inflammatory and analgesic - really did my inflammatory bowel pain the world of good...but it seemingly allowed passage of mercury across my blood-brain barrier - I say this because I recognise the symptoms as identical to those when I took NDF and when I consumed Cilantro.

Sure enough, I looked it up in more detail this morning and surprise surprise, Boswellic Acid does cross the blood-brain barrier. I'm not suggesting it is a chelation substance in any sense (though it might be), but it appears that the very fact that it is able to cross the blood-brain barrier seems, subjectively at least, to somehow allow mercury to hitch a ride.

Interestingly, I have never, in all my heavy metals research, seen a single person (be they professional, a parent or a patient) mention this possible blood-brain barrier correlation between mercury and Boswellia (and I know the main chelation forums etc. on the internet), but, as you pointed out, Raw Angel Mom, there is a place for following one's own guidance (even if we don't necessarily draw the same conclusions on specific substances ;) ). ...I confess I am now also curious about possible complications of the above nature with herbs such as Thyme and Rosemary (for example, Rosemary contains carnosic & rosmarinic acids), both herbs being capable of penetrating the blood-brain barrier, though I am, of course, unwilling to play Russian Roulette by trying them on my self deliberately. This area warrants more research. Of course, turmeric contains circuminoids, some of which are known to be capable of crossing the blood-brain barrier. Bit of a rabbit hole, this topic, then... but of potentially-enormous significance to people with high body burdens of mercury and thus a very real risk of this finding it's way across the blood-brain barrier into the fragile tissues of the brain, with potentially regrettable consequences.

Suffice to say, that Boswellia, at the very least, is another substance I'll definitely be avoiding for the next several years until DMSA and ALA, used on a very careful frequent-dosing-chelation protocol, chelate metals from my body and brain to negligible levels. The unfortunate irony is that by the time I've chelated the metals out of my body and brain, I may no longer require the services of an anti-inflammatory herb as excellent as Boswellia clearly is.

C'est la vie.


In the meantime, I'll continue to research this further.




further update: Cereal grass juice seems to be having a similar, though milder, effect on me to the coriander/cilantro and the boswellia. Weird. I do know that some claim cereal grass juice increases measured levels of excreted metals in stools. The problem is that, as with cilantro, insufficient hard scientific research has been undertaken with cereal grass juice in specific relation to chelation of brain/CNS-resident mercury. It's a highly specialised area.
.

[hyperchiller]

Check out food grade Diatomaceous Earth to detox mercury...

"MORE DIATOMACEOUS EARTH BENEFITS: Food grade diatomaceous earth has been reported in scientific literature to absorb methyl mercury, e-coli, endotoxins, viruses (including polio virus), organophosphate pesticide residues, drug resides, and protein, perhaps even the proteinaceous toxins produced by some intestinal infections. Food grade diatomaceous earth detoxes."
http://wolfcreekranch1.tripod.com/defaq.html


Also check out this link - http://www.diatomitecanada.com/fossil-shell-flour-diatomaceous-earth.htm
A heaping tablespoonful, as much as we recommend, in water before bed or first thing in the morning, if one doesn’t normally eat an early breakfast, will allow the Fossil Shell Flour DE time to move through and absorb toxins from one’s digestive tract without interference and without absorbing nutrients from foods or liquids.

[Arky]

Check out food grade Diatomaceous Earth to detox mercury...

"MORE DIATOMACEOUS EARTH BENEFITS: Food grade diatomaceous earth has been reported in scientific literature to absorb methyl mercury, e-coli, endotoxins, viruses (including polio virus), organophosphate pesticide residues, drug resides, and protein, perhaps even the proteinaceous toxins produced by some intestinal infections. Food grade diatomaceous earth detoxes."
http://wolfcreekranch1.tripod.com/defaq.html


Also check out this link - http://www.diatomitecanada.com/fossil-shell-flour-diatomaceous-earth.htm
A heaping tablespoonful, as much as we recommend, in water before bed or first thing in the morning, if one doesn’t normally eat an early breakfast, will allow the Fossil Shell Flour DE time to move through and absorb toxins from one’s digestive tract without interference and without absorbing nutrients from foods or liquids.

I've nothing against DE, and it might possibly aid excretion of mercury from the bowel, but, like zeolite, it is not absorbed systemically and is thus not a serious option for a mercury-intoxicated individual, because mercury in no way limits itself to the bowel - that's precisely the problem with mercury; it finds its way into many tissues and organs, including the brain.

[hyperchiller]

Then what do you suggest Arky?

Is there anything out there that helps you detox mercury systematically?? There's got to be something. Maybe a herb of some sort.

I've got the "Detox Miracle Sourcebook - the Complete Guide to Cellular Regeneration". It does into depth about various toxins, heavy metals and the sources of them in our environment. Although it doesn't go into depth about how to detox from mercury..

[Arky]

Then what do you suggest Arky?

Is there anything out there that helps you detox mercury systematically?? There's got to be something. Maybe a herb of some sort.

I've got the "Detox Miracle Sourcebook - the Complete Guide to Cellular Regeneration". It does into depth about various toxins, heavy metals and the sources of them in our environment. Although it doesn't go into depth about how to detox from mercury..


Well, from the research I've done, there's only one pragmatic option and that's the Cutler Protocol - he's the only authority I've encountered who recognises the vital importance of administering chelation substances on the basis of a strict frequent-dosing schedule, which takes account of the half-life of each chelation substance. If one ignores (or, in the case of cilantro, does not know) the half-life of a chelation substance, then, as its levels unfortunately decay in the body, over time, metals which were in the process of being chelated instead become redistributed to some extent, which leads to enormous oxidative stress on the body and, of course, failure to achieve the desired aim of safe and effective excretion.

If you read my posts on this forum (this thread included), regarding chelation, you'll see I go into quite a bit of detail on various practical options. In order to follow Cutler's protocol, one requires, at the minimum, Alpha Lipoic Acid for use as a chelator (particularly if mercury has reached the brain, which it invariably has), with the option of simultaneously using DMSA or DMPS if desired.

Within the present thread you will see I explain why, in the case of mercury chelation, it is unfortunately not ideal to use non-standardised, and insufficiently-researched chelation substances such as cilantro. One cannot accurately control dosage or blood levels (since the half-life has yet to be scientifically established), and thus redistribution is an ever-present hazard, and this can have fearful consequences if the redistribution occurs across the blood-brain barrier, into the delicate tissues of the brain.

All the best.

[rawamy]

http://www.holisticheal.com/media/downloads/john-doe-mpa-sample.pdf

http://planetthrive.com/2009/06/glutathione-depletion%E2%80%94methylation-cycle-block-hypothesis-the-simple-approach/
http://planetthrive.com/2009/06/glutathione-depletion%E2%80%94methylation-cycle-block-hypothesis-the-customized-approach/

I can't say if this is your answer or not~~~ I have been looking into this stuff recently and all I can say is it seems worth looking at in your case. Good luck.

[kevin1986]

I take LIQUID MSM,twice a day

[janatmsn]

When I first started taking msm I felt worse than ever but I realized I wasn't drinking enough water. If
msm will detox your body you must drink a lot of water to wash out what has been cleansed from the
liver. When I started drinking more water I felt better almost immediately-otherwise those impurities are creating havoc in your body. I don't particularly like plain water an have added lemon juice to the water I drink and that can be a good thing because lemon is good liver detoxifier as well.

[chanvanessa]

Firstly sorry about what happened to your Mother in regards to the MSM powder. I do think though that one teaspoon was waaay too much. The typical msm capsule has far less than a teaspoon in it...less than even half of a teaspoon. It seems both you and here were badly misinformed. I know many people that take the capsules and they are very much ok with regular sleeping habits. MSM really isnt bad...its just that tooo much of it isnt good.

[chanvanessa]

Also....instead of taking msm orally for the hair or the skin, you can disolve the powder in virgin coconut or olive oil over very low heat and apply to the scalp or the skin. its just as effective that way as well.

[guinea pig]

first of all my heart goes out to yvette and hope she is doing well. I have been researching for awhile now about MSM and every search result comes up contrary to what i was looking for: "MSM helped my negative reaction to..." I feel so fortunate to finally find something truthful on the internet that can confirm what i felt all along that MSM screwed up my body. I too fell for all of the positive hype out there that MSM is completely safe and is not known to have any side effects. I was downing the stuff in smoothies everyday and feeling great! I told all of my friends that i found a silever bullet to all of my health woes. Then strange things started happening. I was hit with the worst case of hemorrhoids (never had those before!) I also developed cold sores, as that started going away after treating those symptoms i started to get horrible arthritic like pain in my fingers. the only thing that i felt i was doing differently was the msm so i stopped taking it. the pain subsided to some degree and the hemorrhoids and cold sores completely disappeared. the pain in my hands comes and goes but i hope it can be completely reversed.

i have been adding raw cilantro to my smoothies as i read tha tit is natures antibiotic and can help the body defend itself against cold and flu etc. I never thought i had heavy metal toxicity but now after reading this i am scared to death. Which sucks because i love the exotic taste of cilantro / asian food. There has got to be a happy medium...right now i am trying to just eat fruits and veggies and alkaline water to detox and heal my digestive tract thinking that would reverse any auto immune response my body was having to the rapid detox i was experiencing form the msm.

i realize this post goes backa number of years but i hope we can become more vocal about the danger of MSM, as well as western doctors not being such down down stream healers instead of actually working with patients to find the underlying causes of pain and illness. They are the ones who have so many to find their own answers to health and cause their bodies harm. All they want to do is prescribe medications and not listen to what patients are teling them. Hopefully someday natural and western medicine can work together more closely and learn form eachother into more comprehensive healing strategies.

[tomakin]

First - hello, I'm new on this forum. I'm not raw if anyony wonders, I'm vegetarian/vegan since ages, all in alternative medicine, I'm prescribing raw food as a parf of healing protocol sometimes.

About MSM - alot of people have such reaction, including me (this is why I'm here - I'm trying to google some additional informations). What I've found already - sulfur compete with calcium and potassium, and very high doses of this element can aggravate calcium deficiency, insomnia and constipations are symptoms of low calcium.

Our skeleton is build with calcium, it contains around 1 000 000 mg of it. If there is deficiency in bloodstream there is also very high chance that the skeleton is compromised as well - simple medical test (bone densitometry) can rule it out. Food alone can't reverse advanced osteoporosis, calcium supplements are required - among many other things, like vitamin D, boron, magnesium etc of course.

So' if someone experience insomnia, constipations and other signals of low calcium after MSM supplement, maybe it's time to run vitamin D test to check, if calcium is absorbed? With vitamin D level below 30 ng/dl we can't absorb minerals properly, including calcium, magnesium, iron and zinc. Maybe it's time to calculate dietary intake of calcium, and correct it if needed?

@Arky - I was able to cure completely alot of people with so called "mercury poisoning". It was NEVER mercury poisoning, they have had other problems. Not even in single case it was mercury. Main problem was convicing them to drop this mercury madness and actually check for other possibilities. One dude got terrible vitamin D deficiency, he didn't left home for years, working at his PC, other had hypothyroidism caused by iodine deficiency, one woman had very bad case of milk intolerance - and so on.Whole mercury thing is just a big hoax, sure, it's toxic and so on, but regarding amalgams fillings - there's almost exactly same chance of developing "amalgam caused diseases", like sclerosis multiplex, Alzheimer etc with 15 amalgams, as with 0. People with 10+ fillings have elevated risk of some diseases, but it can be easily explained - they had very poor health to start with, there is a reason why they got these fillings, isn't?. There is one heavy metal related to serious health problem - lead, and you can get rid of it within months. Then there's fluoride, and you can clean your body off it within weeks. But mercury? Cmon....

(sorry for my english)

[shellyprincipe]

Yvette, is your mom allergic to sulfa drugs. I read an article on Dr Mercola's website that if you are allergic to sulfa drugs,
you may have trouble with MSM because it is a type of sulfur.

Additionally he states that you keep in mind that there may be side effects because MSM can detoxify you, and that may
initially aggravate any condition you have, so he suggests that you increase dosage slowly to allow your body to adjust.

He also states that as with most supplements, quality is a concern when it comes to MSM as well, and recommends using woodpulp or tree-derived MSM.

[truth4u]

Yvette - I know that this is many years later; and, you may already have found out that your mom may have a different problem or may have solved her problem. However, I would like to tell you that your mom's symptoms of hair loss and lack of sleep mimic my hypothyroidism exactly.