Detox: what is the tipping point?

[futureboy]

I've been debating for a while if detox actually exists, although I know anyone who's been raw for a few months will attest to it. I'm proud of my current diet, which is 100% raw probably 25 days per month, and on probably 3 of those days where I violate, it's typically one meal. The rest of the time I'm drinking 1-2 kambuchas each day, either 2 or 4 oz of wheatgrass shots, eating fruits and veggies all the time, carrying nuts with me at all times, green smoothies after workouts and salads, etc. I'm even taking 400mg of Rhodiola rosea each day as well.

But I still have the headaches that never go away, that feel like there's a slight pressure on my forehead all the time. Permanently. I still often feel "stupid" even though I'm very smart, but I simply have problems grasping simple concepts sometimes. Being full-minded is rare.

I'll admit I feel better being raw, but it's nothing revolutionary like people seem to claim. I imagine my "detox" some day would be me waking up and feeling full of energy and clear-headed like a great mind fog had been lifted; the pressure on my forehead gone. No more tightness in my bite, and perhaps some crying and venting of some past suppressed emotions that had been triggering it all from the start.

But no...it's never happened. I've only been 30 days raw at most at any given point, including a 30 day juice feast, but still, I've been doing this 25 days/month raw thing for the last 3-4 months and I still don't feel as though anything that I would say is "detox" has occurred.

So of course I know people are going to say, you need to be raw for longer, not just 30 days, to give your body more time to heal. I'm going to do that soon--go 100% for 60 days, see if I can push it to 90 days. But what I do want to know from all you hard core raw foodists is: what does the emotional/physical detox feel like? Is it a definitive moment where you can point to it and say "oh god that was HUGE detox, I feel like Andy Dufresne in Shawshank Redemption when he broke out of prison" or is it gradual and some day you just say, "you know I feel great, I guess I have detoxed."

Does anyone understand what I'm saying? I sometimes feel that raw food is sadistic--being "mostly raw" doesn't really cut it, eating anything cooked immediately puts 10lbs back on the scale, and being 100% 6 days per week, well, might as well just eat SAD.

I have hope that when I go down the path of the 60 day raw vegan journey, my detox will arrive. Going back to Shawshank Redemption, Andy Dufresne said, "hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

[beckx]

i've read about major milestone detox moments... people getting what feels like the worst flu they've ever had and then feeling amazing immediately after, or tasting chemicals or medications they were exposed to at some point in their lives and being able to point to exactly where in their detox process they are... never had one myself, but i don't consider myself to be that toxic. i'm fairly young, ate a lot of crap my whole life but never felt it's effects until the last year or two, no huge health challenges. i'm fortunate. others will probably be able to attest to major detox though.

[cara4art]

"I sometimes feel that raw food is sadistic--being "mostly raw" doesn't really cut it, eating anything cooked immediately puts 10lbs back on the scale, and being 100% 6 days per week, well, might as well just eat SAD." - futureboy

Have to disagree somewhat here - being "mostly raw" is so far ahead of where the general population is as far as their eating habits, and no, eating something cooked DOESN'T automatically put 10lbs. back on you(unless you kept it up with cooked junk food that is), and there's a huge difference between being 100%raw 6 days a week, and being full-time SAD. Not too many people at all out there are "100% raw 6 days a week" - if they were, their health would be vastly improved over a period of time.
That said, I really think it depends on one's own system. If one is young, I think a detox might come quicker and a more dramatic improvement might be seen right away because a lot of junk got cleared out right away, because relatively speaking, there wasn't all THAT much to begin with, unless said young person had really horrible habits starting from toddlerhood and through their teens and early adulthood. But for an older person, again, depending on their prior diet and habits, it can take a LONG time to detox just simple because we've lived longer and have more accumulations, so of course it's not going to happen overnight, and it might happen a bunch of times as new layers of stuff get cleared out. I was reading somewhere that it can take at LEAST a couple of years for a person in middle age and beyond to detox sufficiently that they really do feel a lot better. I've had one big detox so far, and that was during May, about 3 and a half months after I shifted my diet upwards in the raw department(no I'm not 100% raw yet, if ever, but even one respected leader in the raw food movement says that significant benefits occur at 80% raw), and yes, it did feel like one of the worst flus ever. Lasted 10 days, I lost about 4 pounds(before that I hadn't really lost anything, but I'm post-menopausal so that has something to do with it), and I found that I wanted simpler foods afterward than prior to this detox episode. I imagine I'll probably have more, since I'm 61, too.
Just trust in the process, and don't stress out about the exact percentage of raw that you happen to be at right now, - just keep eating good raw food, exercise, find ways to relax, and find some enjoyment in life. Indeed, there may be people who just like that go 100% raw and never look back or cheat ever, but a far greater number have a journey where they have slips, or even returning to predominantly cooked for awhile until they realize they can't really do that anymore, and then the amount of raw food in the diet takes over in a period of time. This is why people here say it's a journey and that those slips are learning experiences. I'm still going through this as I don't eat perfect every single day. For some people, going high-raw is significant, and then others really do have to go 100% to notice anything at all. Just some thoughts here!

[rawstrength]

I felt really foggy-headed, dizzy, and confused for my first month 100% raw :( . Then the fog gradually lifted and now I feel amazing! Anyway, I went 100% raw for two months, spent 14 days in China eating cooked vegan Chinese food, came back to the U.S., fasted on water for 3 days, and have been 100% raw again for 4 months. When I came back from China, I worried that I would have to go through that foggy-headed, confused phase all over again. Not so! Either the fasting cleared out the toxins I had eaten in China, or I really didn't consume enough toxins in 14 days for it to set me that far back in my journey. I have to go to China and eat cooked vegan food again in a few weeks, so we'll see how it goes this time. Last time, I felt pretty bad for most of the trip :( . So this time I am bringing some raw snacks so I can at least eat a raw breakfast (fruit) and lunch (raw snacks).
Anyway, that's my experience with detox! I sincerely hope that you feel better soon.

P.S. I'm only 18 years old, and I was a vegan for 4 years before I went raw, so that may have speeded up the detox process for me.

[futureboy]

Was there a moment during this time that you felt a horrible flu followed by the euphoria of detox, or was it gradual?

[rawstrength]

Was there a moment during this time that you felt a horrible flu followed by the euphoria of detox, or was it gradual?

My detox was mostly gradual. However, the week after I started taking MSM, I had flu-like symptoms for 3-4 ish days, but I didn't feel euphoria after. It's like I just gradually started feeling better and better, with a few 3-4 day periods of low/not feeling good mixed in. The worst 3-4 day detox was after MSM. Also, as I mentioned before, all of the first month was like detox for me. I felt really confused/spacy. Drinking water, a lot of water, really helped me get through the first month.
I think that MSM really accelerates detox. MSM is normally found in rainwater and in all crops grown with rainwater. Sadly, most of our crops are grown using irrigation, with water that has been chemically treated and has no MSM in it. So taking MSM really helped me to detox and feel better. I forgot to mention the MSM in my last post. Maybe it would help you to take some?

[futureboy]

I forgot to mention the MSM in my last post. Maybe it would help you to take some?

Just the MSM pills one can obtain in GNC/Whole Foods, or is there some specific MSM powder I should be taking? What brand would you recommend?

[Thick]

I never had the horrible flu detox. But I did have the 15 year suppressed emotional detox. I wasn't 100% at that time. My emotional pain was just as fresh as it was 15 years ago. I had a freshly broken heart, but there was nothing that I needed to do about it in 2008, just listen to my emotions and let myself sort it out, this time without the huge amount of alchohol and drugs. I learned that I had left my self esteem at that place and not yet gotten it back. I was still there, needing help and my body remembered for me=)It started with a dream about him, the kind of dream you remember vividly.

I'm beginning to wonder just how long detox will take? I've heard that your cells renew every 7 years. So far, it seems that if I am being gentle with my body, detox is a slow barely noticeable process for me.

[lytlsprout]

I thin detox is usually gradual. Also remember it's not as important what you eat as what you don't eat. So if on your non-raw days you're eating pizza and ice cream and fast food you're doing a lot more damage than if you are eating some homemade veggie soup. i also think the stronger the detox... like if you get a really bad headache or really bad flu symptoms the better you feel after it because you got out more junk.

[futureboy]

Thanks everyone! I have ordered some MSM powder to help speed up the process more, hopefully, and I'm going to start into a pure stretch of raw vegan for the next three weeks when I have an annual lobster dinner I will not miss for the world, but then I'll be back on track for pretty much all of August and onward.

We'll see where it goes. At this point my weight is around 188-190 lbs and when I go 100% I start losing about 1 lb/day until I bottom out around 185, but then I'll try to intensify detox through more high intensity interval training, more wheatgrass shots, more MSM.

I guess on the bright side, being "mostly raw" for the last several months has made it easier to reset that baseline weight, which for me used to be 200-205 lbs. With that in mind, I should be closer and closer to a detox state. I'll put everything I've learned to the test starting tomorrow!

By the way, everyone should see WALL-E. Crazy social commentary on consumerism but most in particular, diet. Cute film!

[TaupeRawMan]

Hi FutureBoy -

I have been 100% raw for 5 years, never had a significant detox (was organic non-junk vegan for the proceeding 20 years), and deal with fatigue and brain fog. I am currently trying to eat more and do regular enemas. I have read (Gabriel Cousens) that not every diet works for everyone....that is why you hear a percentage of the people that do any diet have these wonderful transformations (especially those going from significantly overweight). I think raw is a great way to be...if it works for you.