I never feel full...

[Emma-Liza]

Hi, all, I hope you won't find this to gross a subject. I mean stomach contents, etc. But...

I'm still having trouble with what "full" (meaning satisfied, not stuffed) feels like without all the starchy cooked foods I used to shove down my gob. I can feel that there's food in my stomach, but the sensation is sooo different.

Before, when I finished eating, the food in my stomach felt heavy and thick, solid. I guess it's what is meant by "stick to your ribs." I really liked that feeling.

Now I feel like even though I've probably got a similar volume of stuff in there, it's light and kind of rattling around. I even spend extra time chewing to counteract that "airy" sensation.

Is this crazy?

In all the reading about raw that I'm doing, I find a message along the lines of "as you eat more nutrient-dense foods, you'll need less of it." So,
I'm thinking it's a feeling of energy (?) and I'm thinking I need to get used to it.

But what do you all think? If you liked feeling "full" (and I know some don't!) how did you learn to live with the different feeling? And be happy with it? Because I think in the long run, I'll have to be happy with it or I won't be able to do it. And, I really want to do it.

Thanks for listening,
Emma-Liza (just about to finish my first raw week)

[Revvell]

What are you eating?

I know for me, when I was starting, I'd need things like Alissa's chili or her burger on a bun, etc. It felt so good to put that burger in, chew it up! Full!

After awhile you don't need that. In the meantime, make some recipes that are filling! If you don't have a dehydrator, make various nut burgers and wrap them in collard greens. Make nut pates and eat the with lots of veggies. Make Alissa's chili. Make lasagna... there are quite a few out there that don't need dehydration.

Revvell

[MOTH]

You will definitely adjust over time...

...make sure you are eating enough. You have to eat A LOT of fruit and veg to come close to the calories you were eating on a SAD diet. I can eat 7 bananas in a sitting and then thirty minutes later devour a HUGE salad. That is usually how dinner goes for me. My meals are huge. It's OKAY to eat a lot of RAW food. I used to get hung up with guilt on how much food I was consuming in order to feel satisfied - but the more I eat to total fullness and satisfaction with RAW, the better I feel and the healthier my body looks.

If I don't eat enough, I feel dizzy, lightheaded, cranky and craving cooked foods.

In the beginning, 7 months ago, when I went raw I felt like you did: like I just was never full. It was hard to stay satisfied. But I definitely wasn't eating enough.

So go ahead and dig in. Keep eating RAW at meals until you are full and satisfied. Your body will appreciate you for it.

[phedre]

I don't have a lot of advice except to say that I'm really about in the same place right now! I finish with a HUGE lunch of salad and other veggies and except for being exhausted from all that chewing, I don't feel like I've eaten a thing! Recently, the one thing that I've found that helps me out are green smoothies. I'm allowing myself to drink them until I feel full, which for now is a lot of smoothie, lol, but I do get there. And I figure while I do, I'm getting a ton of good nutrients in. I'm hoping that eventually my body will adjust to the different feelings too though!

[srsarri]

I FEEL THE SAME WAY!!

I have been 100% for 3 days and I am eating NON STOP! it never ends, I was eating a banana in bed last night! I was like "oh my, what am I doing" but then I remembered that I ate 100% raw all day and it was ok!

Just EAT EAT EAT!

[brownies]

It's hard but its going to take time. You need to find foods that your body responds best to so experiment. Try eating more fatty foods like avocado & nuts. It helps me to blend it up with spices and kind of trick my self into thinking I'm eating a more "normal" meal. I just started experimenting with the "walnut taco meat" and I love it. I get nice & full. Also try: nut butters, coconut meat/milk/cream, avocado based desserts/meals/dips, & nutritional yeast

Also you need to keep in mind that the transitional period where your body is getting used to these new foods is going to be a bit uncomfortable. You will feel hungry & you might even have strange sensations all over your body. (I feel my skin tingling as though full of energy)

If it helps you shouldn't feel like you cant ease into the raw diet. Not everyone can go into it full force right at the beginning. I am starting by eating all my nuts, fruits & vegis raw and everything else is normal food (basically just rice, quinoa, beans & breads). I plan on slowly replacing my "normal" foods with raw ones as my body adjust. Perhaps this will work for you too.

[raweater]

I'm very physically active since I do weight lifting so I need a lot of calories to do what I do.

Since fruits and veggies are about 90% water and have next to no calories at all, I eat tons of nuts, without nuts I could not be raw, it would be impossible as I'd be eating non stop. I know the high fat of nuts can be unhealthy (I get about 60-75% of my calories from fat which is extremely high) but when you're very active most of the fat gets burned for energy so it's not dangerous like if you were eating that much fat without being active.

So if you're eating just fruits and veggies it would take an absurd amount to get the calories you need, so I'd recommend eating nuts and seeds.

To compare, one cup of fruits/veggies is normally 10-80 calories, one cup of nuts is about 600-1000 calories, that's up to 100 times more energy density than fruits and veggies, that's why nuts are a huge part of my diet.

[Emma-Liza]

I just saw a similar thread (http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showthread.php?t=37206&highlight=fullness) from earlier started by rawerin. I had searched a day or so ago, in case this topic was covered. I didn't mean to do a thread on the same subject. Sorry! Hope it's okay....

[meinleben]

raw eater

have you looked into doug graham? he is really geared towards active people like yourself....it is the only way i am able to be raw and active...

[cherries]

Having an empty stomach can be annoying! But eventually you'll get used to light eating, I know that that feeling goes away eventually and then people start talking about feeling uncomfortably heavy and full when they go back to cooked! You would probably like "grazing" - eating small meals throughout the day. I eat handfuls of dried fruit throughout the day too, like dates and raisins. I keep them on the counter (like cookies in a cookie jar).

I also looked through your journal and if I could make a few suggestions, about breakfast, here is how I would eat your breakfast:

I don't start eatting until I'm trully hungry; sometimes early, sometimes midmorning.

B--
Huge green smoothie: (I know everyone eats green smoothies in the morning but I don't eat greens the first thing, fruit is the ideal thing to eat in the morning, it gives you energy without taking energy to digest. I have the rest of the day to eat greens, why would I eat them in the morning? I would save this until later when I was really hungry. I think that it's natural to eat greens later in the day, because if you were to pick them fresh, they would be at their most nutritious after they had been in the sun for awhile. Not at dawn.)
6 oz blueberries (great!)
2 bananas (great! I would probably eat these an hour after the blueberries)
handful of baby red leaf lettuce (all that would fit in the cup) (I would eat this in the afternoon)
1 mug 1/2 decaf coffee w/ff cream (I would save this until after you think that the fruit has digested, fruit digests in 20 min. If you eat it with the fruit you might get indigestion)

Good Luck! :)

[Aleesha Sattva]

raw food digests to easily and quickly that you are often left to feel hungry. fortunately with raw foods, it's okay to just eat more.

rev suggested you eat more nut burgers and such... i totally agree with her. those items will give you that full feeling... as nuts take longer to digest!

green smoothies are another great suggestion.

don't worry, you'll get your groove on! just listen to your body and go with the flow.

[raweater]

raw eater

have you looked into doug graham? he is really geared towards active people like yourself....it is the only way i am able to be raw and active...

I wasn't sure I heard of him but searched his name and found he's the 80/10/10 doctor and I had heard of him.

I highly doubt I'd be able to follow his 80/10/10 plan, I'm more like 60% fat, 25% carbs, 15% protein. I see no way how I'd get enough calories without eating all the fat I eat, I'd have to eat 2 bathtubs full of food per day!

[meinleben]

raweater

the 801010ers are in good shape....they are fit....how are you able to be active eating that much fat...it just slows me down so much....

a day may look like this

cardio 60 minutes
8 am 40oz orange juice
12 noon 8 bananas/head romain
yoga 90 minutes
6pm 4 mangos
huge salad...greens tomato cucumber red pepper, lemon dressing

i was skinny on high fat raw...i am super active...his program works...it takes some time...his program has the most active fit people...really...check it out...at least read the book...i was a skeptic once too...where do you live

[raweater]

I'm not a skeptic, I just don't see how I'd possibly get my 3500-4000 calories a day with so little fat, the volume I'd have to eat would be completely absurd, that's why I eat nuts which are close to 1000 calories per cup compared to 20-100 calories per cup for fruits/veggies.

How do you eat 8 bananas in a row, and especially do that day after day?

[rawbutterfly]

I agree with everyone. When I first went raw, I would eat tons of the heavier stuff-chili, avocados, breads etc. After a while I realized that I don't eat them very often at all. I would much rather have a salad or fruit or a smoothie. I think I could live on smoothies.

[Dimond]

I would much rather have a salad or fruit or a smoothie. I think I could live on smoothies. And I can live on salads. :p I'm already craving one for breakfast.

I've cut way back on heavier foods. My body likes it better. Though I do still eat a lot at times. I try to fill up without too much fats. And drinking lots of water helps.

To get full, adding heavier ingredients to smoothies, soups, salads, etc. will help. I use to add an avocado & olive oil to my soups and that really helped and was quite satisfying. I add much more ingredients now to my salad-adding a whole apple, tomato and/or avocado can make it more filling or using a heavy dressing.

[iamacranberry]

I'm not a skeptic, I just don't see how I'd possibly get my 3500-4000 calories a day with so little fat, the volume I'd have to eat would be completely absurd, that's why I eat nuts which are close to 1000 calories per cup compared to 20-100 calories per cup for fruits/veggies.

How do you eat 8 bananas in a row, and especially do that day after day?

Oh g-d, not the calorie counting again....

[cara4art]

This varies so much between people, and depending on how heavy a diet you ate before getting into raw is also a factor. I think going raw would be a more difficult transition if one was accustomed to large meals of predominantly heavier cooked foods. In this case, including heavier raw foods can help in the beginning, like the recipes for dehydrator breads and crackers, pates, desserts, heavier dips and spreads, plus just plain old eating ENOUGH of the high-water containing foods.
However, the preference for just how "full" one likes to feel is a personal one - for me, I HATE the feeling of feeling in the least bit too full, ever since I was a child(was force-fed at one point because I went on a short hunger strike had something to do with it). So even before I shifted over to a higher percentage of raw, I tended to choose the lighter foods to begin with, and much smaller amounts of heavier foods. Then other people often don't feel "full" until they're stuffed. This can change however as one becomes more attuned to one's body though, IMO.

[Thick]

You will get used to that feeling. I know exactly what you are talking about. Very soon, the thick, heavy full feeling will feel very bad to you. Like you swallowed a tire and it feels like you might never digest it. I still can get that way with too many nuts or entirely too much watermelon. So I suggest those two, if you want to feel too full=)

I think I used to use food as a mood altering substance-and that full feeling would anesthetize me to stress, give me a *reason* to lay about and be lazy, give me the impetus to eat desserts and coffee to "perk back up"... For me , its a rollercoaster I am so glad I am off.

With raw food, we chew so much and throughly that our stomach truly has that "20 minutes until your brain realizes its full" to tell our brain that we are full..With sad food, you can wolf down a lot of food in 20 minutes..but with the slower chewing time we never eat until we are bursting full on raw. It's a good thing=) To be perfectly satisfied, you can feel you have food in your stomach as you said, not want another bite--and still have the energy to do the dishes or go out and play!!

[Emma-Liza]

Thanks so much to you all for your thoughtful and thorough replies.

Per your encouragement, I did make a very large and probably "heavier" meal last night than I had done since I started. No greens in this salad, just chopped up veggies and lots of them, including raw corn, avocado, and walnut taco mix. And dressing. Decadent!!

I don't know how much of it was psychological :) but I actually wasn't hungry again until late this morning--almost noon.:D

I spend 2 nights a week with my newborn niece (to give the new parents a good night's sleep) and the way my stomach feels at 4:00 am is usually almost too much to bear. Last night, I didn't even think about it.

I feel like I've gotten past a particular obstacle--part fear and part physical. I've read and reread all your posts. Thank you again!

[meinleben]

raweater

i can eat 8 bananas for lunch easy...on a day where i have engaged in a good workout...if no workout, maybe 4 or 5...

i have found the serious athletes / fitness people...do not do high fat...
again...it is just not healthy...

distance runners...cardio fitness...people thrive on high fruit...i hope you look into it...your fitness, energy and workouts will be awesome...

at least read the 801010 book by graham...if you really think its crazy....then i will go away...

[raweater]

I mean I could easily eat 10-20 bananas in a row calorie wise, I meant I'd probably go crazy eating so many of the same thing.

I know high fat is unhealthy, I just don't see how I'd get my 3500-4000 calories/day with low fat.

I did hear an interview by Dr Graham on the 80/10/10 plan, and I don't at all think it's crazy, it's far healthier than the way I eat now, as I said I just don't see how I'd possibly get enough calories without fat. Are you eating 80/10/10 and if how how many calories a day do you eat and what does your diet look like?

I'd love to eat 80/10/10, I just think it would be hard and expensive getting that many calories from fruits and veggies which are 90% water.

[meinleben]

its possible...i am doing it...i have been doing 801010 for 2 years in august...1 year transitioning....then 1 year pretty close to it (look, not perfect)....i have gone through some awesome changes...

at the beginning i did drop some weight cause i did not get the calories i needed for my activity level....i row (indoor rowing) 90 minutes about 4 times a week...do yoga 90 minute classes about 3-4 times a week...i play all the time..hike, boggie board...ride my bike, lift weights....i teach pe...i move my body alot...but after some time by body demanded more food...and i was able to accommodate it...i feel really good...

i eat 3 meals a day...it changes as fruit seasons change....bananas are my daily lunch staple....hopefully not forever...but for now and it works....

today was awesome (i am in Kauai)

7am 5 papayas
then hiked the napali coast
12 noon 12 apple bananas (they are about 1/2 - 3/4 of reg banana)
1 head romaine
6 2 magoes
6 small tomatoes & romain

what is your email...maybe i can email you

[meinleben]

raweater

in kauai just for vacation

live in california

[raw_danceruk]

My two cents..this is Alissa's site.. Advocating HER way of eating

thats that bit done

Eat raw. thats all

I dont think you will feel that cooked food "full" feeling.. its just you get used to the new feeling.

Now when I eat nuts it feels like cooked food..and I dont like that feeling..its heavier and denser..

Try making some breads and dips..having some richer, heavier foods to try and satisfy. Dont worry too much your doing great...just keep going and play with some recipies in the book..theres plenty to get your teeth into :D

[raweater]

Having as much fat in your diet as I do is very dangerous and causes heart attacks (even on 100% raw vegans), eating raw doesn't mean you can eat just bananas and dates (you'd get diabetes), and doesn't mean you can eat 60-80% fat (you'd get heart attacks). There are many ways to get severe diseases on raw food if it's not done right, that's why I want to reduce my fat intake as it's dangerously high.

[iamacranberry]

This is true, however, it is unwise for anyone to advocate that a certain percentage of nutrients is the perfect profile for everyone. This is because we all have different metabolic types.

If you are not feeling full when eating, you are definitely not listening to your body. If you stop monitoring calories and use the way you FEEL as your guide, you will learn to listen to your body and give it what it needs.

[raweater]

I'm not sure I believe the metabolic type thing, I've seen more evidence against it then for... in fact I saw no evidence to support it.

[Clare]

Raweater, if a person is 100% raw, I do not believe they can eat themselves into diabetes or heart disease raw. Your body would tell you to "stop!" eating as much ---- and you would crave more greens, etc. That is the beauty of eating naturally. Besides, fruit doesn't cause diabetes and nuts don't cause heart attacks. They can cause some minor imbalances but not deadly diseases. Heart disease and diabetes are so prevalent today because of sodas, processed garbage, nutrient deficiencies, etc. Not fruit and nuts.

[Rawkinlocs]

Ummm...yeah, PLEASE let's not start dragging in other styles of eating raw into this equation...by now I'm SURE yall know the rules and if ya don't, have a look at 'em!

Raweater, please tell us who you know that has gotten diabetes or a heart attack from eating raw foods. Please don't do that whole "scare-tactic" thing. The only people who have issues with diabetes and blood sugar, etc. from eating dates and bananas are those who had pre-existing issues before having even gone raw.

It's been proven over and over and over again that when a person first goes raw that sometimes you NEED (yes, NEED) to eat more fat and more dried fruit and recipes, etc. and as you eat more and more raw and get more and more cleaned out, you will mellow out and just naturally begin to desire...DEE-ZIE-ER...less of that...your body won't be able to tolerate it much without feeling kinda "off" so you'll know when it's time to give it a rest for a while. HOWEVER...there may be times even once you've slowed down on the nut/fat consumption that perhaps your body may go through a season...a period...where it craves/needs more fat for a time...then once it's gotten it's fill, you will no longer desire so much of it.

But as it's been said, regarding feeling "full", even with raw recipes and the like, you never get the same kind of heavy, wanna-go-to-sleep fullness you get with a cooked meal, especially meat. You can become satiated, but it won't be that heavy kind of fullness we've all been accustomed to at one time or another. But after a while, you will adjust/get used to that lighter feeling and even come to appreciate it, believe it or not. In fact, overtime your stomach is going to shrink back down to it's normal size and then you won't even be able to fit a boat-load of food into it...I'm talking the actual stomach and not the outer abdominal area although that's gonna get smaller too!

But just follow Alissa's plan (speaking to the OP here) and eat raw...if you feel you need to eat more, eat more...things WILL balance out!

Did you happen to listen to the interview Revvell did with the guy who lost 200 lbs. in 2 years time? He had some AWESOME stuff to say about how he did NOT deprive himself and listen to rules and regulations...he did what he had to do to stick to eating raw and as it's been said nearly "to death", he eventually naturally gravitated to wanting less and less of the heavy stuff and noticed his salads that were at one time HUGE, began to get smaller and smaller and now he is really into greens.

So, trust your body, do what you need to do right now to stay satiated so you don't end up going back to the other stuff and eat as much as you feel you need to eat to feel as you think you need to feel. It won't be the exact same feeling...but close enough.

Also, learn to do other things to take your mind off of eating if need be. Take up a hobby or go for a walk or something and see if that helps. As long as you know you're not starving, you'll be fine. Take snacks with you when you're out, raw bars, nut/seed trail mix, fruit, etc. so if you get that strong urge to eat something even when out and about.

[iamacranberry]

Raweater, if a person is 100% raw, I do not believe they can eat themselves into diabetes or heart disease raw. Your body would tell you to "stop!" eating as much ---- and you would crave more greens, etc. That is the beauty of eating naturally. Besides, fruit doesn't cause diabetes and nuts don't cause heart attacks. They can cause some minor imbalances but not deadly diseases. Heart disease and diabetes are so prevalent today because of sodas, processed garbage, nutrient deficiencies, etc. Not fruit and nuts.

They could theoretically eat themselves into disease, but the only way they could do it is by NOT listening to their body. Eg, without the healthy mindset that is needed.

[raweater]

>"Raweater, please tell us who you know that has gotten diabetes or a heart attack from eating raw foods."

Diabetes I don't know, but Dr Graham I think his name is said he saw many raw foodist die of heart attack due to having 60-80% of calories from fat (which is exactly my case and worries me). In another forum I also talked to a person with Crohn's disease, which I used to have, which couldn't get cured of it on raw food. I asked if she was eating a lot of sweet fruits like bananas and dates, she said yes, I recommended that she lower or stop her intake and only then did her Crohn's disease vanish. I'm not saying bananas and dates are bad, but they should be taken in moderation unless you're physically active to burn off the sugar.

[cherries]

What do rawfoodists die from? I've never seen any statistics. One thing to think about though is that 99% of rawfoodists were not raw their whole life or cheat on the diet. If you add that to the fact that, for a lot of people, raw is a ticket out of serious problems caused by SAD, i.e. the raw community is probably less sturdy/previously-sicker than the average population, it would be hard to pin down the exact cause of death.

It's not like we are living on a island somewhere isolated from the rest of the world and have never eaten a cooked morsel or never heard of cooking. Since the prevailing cause of death for the average person IS heart problems and most raw folk have eaten a significant amount of SAD, we probably do have a significant number of people dying of heart problems.

The statistics, if they exist, are contaminated!

[Rawkinlocs]

>"Raweater, please tell us who you know that has gotten diabetes or a heart attack from eating raw foods."

Diabetes I don't know, but Dr Graham I think his name is said he saw many raw foodist die of heart attack due to having 60-80% of calories from fat (which is exactly my case and worries me). In another forum I also talked to a person with Crohn's disease, which I used to have, which couldn't get cured of it on raw food. I asked if she was eating a lot of sweet fruits like bananas and dates, she said yes, I recommended that she lower or stop her intake and only then did her Crohn's disease vanish. I'm not saying bananas and dates are bad, but they should be taken in moderation unless you're physically active to burn off the sugar.

Oh okay, well that settles it. If Dr. Graham said it, then it MUST be true!

Tell me, did he provide actual case studies and have you seen them? If not, why are you stressing and worrying and taking it as "gospel" truth?

See, for 4 years, I've seen story after story after story...I'm talking PERSONAL accounts of people no longer needing high blood pressure or heart medicine or no longer needing insulin and this was NOT from eating Graham's way...it was from following the simple plan of eating raw and not worrying or stressing about rules and regulations and numbers and percentages and calories. I don't buy it (what Graham said) because I don't hear of too many raw foodists dying and when they have, it was because of an accident OR, it was people who were eating restrictive raw diets such as the one you're touting. I've seen people come here and say that they tried "that way" of eating raw and did not feel well, they felt "spacey" and ended up with deficiencies - perhaps they mistook something else for what they thought to be deficiencies, I don't know, but I'm just telling you the PERSONAL accounts I've heard. See, you're going on what someone else said of "many". I'm going on what I have heard of people, personally.

Also, I have not met not ONE raw fooder who goes raw and eats high amounts of fat and does not, at some point, start tapering off on that NATURALLY without forcing it.

See, any risks posed to you, Raweater, would not be because of you eating high amounts of fat in your diet IF that were what your body needed...but it would be because you are forcing yourself to consume high amounts of fat because you want to take in a certain amount of calories because you feel you "should" be a certain size. IMHO, that is wherein the problem lies. Even with cooked food eaters, the body still sends off signals for example: "STOP EATING, I'm FULL!", the body may be signaling to the person, but the eating goes on and on because the food tastes so good. And it goes on until a person gorges themselves and feels sick.

So, I don't recall ever reading anywhere that you mentioned how eating the high fats make you feel, but it just seems you "might" (and I could be wrong and if I am, I'm sorry) be forcing your body to continue to eat high amounts of fat out of a desire to change your physical appearance when that might not even be what your body wants or needs at this time.

My whole point is, people need to be more intune with their bodies and stop listening to rules and regulations concerning how much to eat, what to and what not to eat in terms of their raw diet. As I've said many times before, sometimes you may be eating less fat because that is simply what feels right to you and where your body needs to be for the moment, but at some point, your body may actually need more fat for a season, not necessarily forever, but just for a time. So, will the person follow suite or will they (if following a certain plan) deprive the body of that because it's going over the "recommended amount". I mean, I thought we tossed RDA figures out the window with cooked food and now they're being (somewhat) dragged back into the raw diet?

Even IF that "certain percentage" of fats was "normal", I still contend that the body needs to get there on it's own, naturally and even still, IF that time comes when the body just might need more fat for whatever purpose, it should be obliged.

[Emma-Liza]

Well said, Rawkinlocs!

If I were trying to get myself to an unnaturally low weight, and I kept saying how concerned I was about the diet that I myself had chosen, I wouldn't hear the end of it.

Oh, you'd be gentle, because you're nice that way :) but I'd be operating under a desire to be someone I'm not, and I'd need to be encouraged to think for myself and find out what size I need to be.

Maybe you'd tell me to stop comparing myself to other people, to respect my individual beauty. Maybe you'd tell me to explore the feelings I have about wanting to achieve something in such a way that it risks my health.

Or maybe it doesn't risk my health and I just think it does. Isn't that disconnect enough? To reassess?

In Alissa's book, one of the before & after people (I'm sorry I can't remember her name) talks about how it's the mark of an addiction how much risk you'll take to medicate cravings.

If damaging the heart is the true concern, why not have a few tests run? It would be foolish to be in such terror of the medical community that you're not willing to find out some objective truth about your own body. They don't require you to check your autonomy or mind at the door to do lab work.

A basic blood panel (includes cholesterol) and maybe an EKG are quick and easy. And then you'll have your reason to worry, or not. Most likely, things are fine.

Maybe that's the scary part.

[raweater]

>"Oh okay, well that settles it. If Dr. Graham said it, then it MUST be true![/I]"

lol I didn't mean that it was absolutely true because he said it, but it did concern me due to my high fat intake.

>"Tell me, did he provide actual case studies and have you seen them? If not, why are you stressing and worrying and taking it as "gospel" truth?"

I only heard him talk about it in an interview, I don't know if he has science to support it.

>"Also, I have not met not ONE raw fooder who goes raw and eats high amounts of fat and does not, at some point, start tapering off on that NATURALLY without forcing it."

Well maybe I'm the first, but at least since I started working out again, I need high amounts of fat or I starve to death (I have never, ever forced myself to eat more than my body wants, my body wants a lot because I spend a lot of energy).

>"See, any risks posed to you, Raweater, would not be because of you eating high amounts of fat in your diet IF that were what your body needed...but it would be because you are forcing yourself to consume high amounts of fat because you want to take in a certain amount of calories because you feel you "should" be a certain size. IMHO, that is wherein the problem lies. Even with cooked food eaters, the body still sends off signals for example: "STOP EATING, I'm FULL!", the body may be signaling to the person, but the eating goes on and on because the food tastes so good. And it goes on until a person gorges themselves and feels sick."

I always listen to my body so I'm not worried about that, I've never forced myself to eat more than my body wanted.

>"So, I don't recall ever reading anywhere that you mentioned how eating the high fats make you feel, but it just seems you "might" (and I could be wrong and if I am, I'm sorry) be forcing your body to continue to eat high amounts of fat out of a desire to change your physical appearance when that might not even be what your body wants or needs at this time."

I really don't think I'm forcing my body to eat high fats, I think it's more my body that's forcing me to eat high fats as if I don't I'm absolutely starving to death (I guess eating tons of bananas would also do, but I find it easier to eat more nuts than more fruits).

[raweater]

If damaging the heart is the true concern, why not have a few tests run? It would be foolish to be in such terror of the medical community that you're not willing to find out some objective truth about your own body. They don't require you to check your autonomy or mind at the door to do lab work.

A basic blood panel (includes cholesterol) and maybe an EKG are quick and easy. And then you'll have your reason to worry, or not. Most likely, things are fine.

Maybe that's the scary part.

The modern medical blood tests are used to sell drugs, they do not evaluate true health risk. For example they say high cholesterol is a risk of heart attacks, yet science has shown it is *low* cholesterol that's the real risk (people with high cholesterol have LESS heart attacks than people with low cholesterol), that's why cholesterol lowering drugs *increase* death rate of heart attacks by 10% compared to no treatment at all, they also increase death rate even more than 10% as they also cause cancer, alzheimers, and a fatal illness where your muscles dissolve into your blood which kill the patients before they would have died with no treatment. So the result of a modern blood test is worthless other than to sell drugs to gullible people.

One test that is supported by science though is blood pressure test (which modern medicine hates because you can do those at home without paying them a dime) so I guess I could get one of those (not in a hospital of course).

[Rawkinlocs]

>"Oh okay, well that settles it. If Dr. Graham said it, then it MUST be true![/I]"

lol I didn't mean that it was absolutely true because he said it, but it did concern me due to my high fat intake.

>"Tell me, did he provide actual case studies and have you seen them? If not, why are you stressing and worrying and taking it as "gospel" truth?"

I only heard him talk about it in an interview, I don't know if he has science to support it.

>"Also, I have not met not ONE raw fooder who goes raw and eats high amounts of fat and does not, at some point, start tapering off on that NATURALLY without forcing it."

Well maybe I'm the first, but at least since I started working out again, I need high amounts of fat or I starve to death (I have never, ever forced myself to eat more than my body wants, my body wants a lot because I spend a lot of energy).

>"See, any risks posed to you, Raweater, would not be because of you eating high amounts of fat in your diet IF that were what your body needed...but it would be because you are forcing yourself to consume high amounts of fat because you want to take in a certain amount of calories because you feel you "should" be a certain size. IMHO, that is wherein the problem lies. Even with cooked food eaters, the body still sends off signals for example: "STOP EATING, I'm FULL!", the body may be signaling to the person, but the eating goes on and on because the food tastes so good. And it goes on until a person gorges themselves and feels sick."

I always listen to my body so I'm not worried about that, I've never forced myself to eat more than my body wanted.

>"So, I don't recall ever reading anywhere that you mentioned how eating the high fats make you feel, but it just seems you "might" (and I could be wrong and if I am, I'm sorry) be forcing your body to continue to eat high amounts of fat out of a desire to change your physical appearance when that might not even be what your body wants or needs at this time."

I really don't think I'm forcing my body to eat high fats, I think it's more my body that's forcing me to eat high fats as if I don't I'm absolutely starving to death (I guess eating tons of bananas would also do, but I find it easier to eat more nuts than more fruits).

Hey Raweater!

Okay then, if you are intune with and listening to your body...please don't feed into fears of developing health issues. If you truly feel this is what your body needs at this time (and again, it could be just for a season and one day you'll look up...all buff and stuff and find you are eating very low fat and it's natural and feels right) then go with that. Release those fears and take all that other stuff with a grain of salt (sea salt, that is).

You seem to be doing well, but you're allowing something or someone to cause you to doubt what your body is ultimately "telling" you to do.

[agumble]

I'll be the first one to admit that I've previously tried to cut back on my fat intake because I thought it was what I "should" do. Within two days, I was tired and cranky and all I wanted to do was start chowing down on avocados. As Rawkinlocs said, it's so important to just listen to your body! What one person's body may need at the time may be completely different from someone else's.

I'm working on my master's thesis right now on weight loss and obesity, and I've had to research the dietary recommendations provided by our government agencies. What's interesting is that we're always hearing about lowering our fat intake, but if you really read the recommendations closely, they say to reduce fat intake in order to reduce trans and saturated fat intake. There is nothing included about reducing the good fats. It seems that those recommendations were made with the assumption that the fats people consume will be from meat, dairy, etc. I just thought that was an interesting observation to note.....

[Eva]

I'll be the first one to admit that I've previously tried to cut back on my fat intake because I thought it was what I "should" do. Within two days, I was tired and cranky and all I wanted to do was start chowing down on avocados. As Rawkinlocs said, it's so important to just listen to your body! What one person's body may need at the time may be completely different from someone else's.

I'm working on my master's thesis right now on weight loss and obesity, and I've had to research the dietary recommendations provided by our government agencies. What's interesting is that we're always hearing about lowering our fat intake, but if you really read the recommendations closely, they say to reduce fat intake in order to reduce trans and saturated fat intake. There is nothing included about reducing the good fats. It seems that those recommendations were made with the assumption that the fats people consume will be from meat, dairy, etc. I just thought that was an interesting observation to note.....

Same with me on not having much fat. And yes, that is a very interesting observation! Thanks for sharing. :)

[Emma-Liza]

raweater--

I only suggested tests because I have noticed that you express a lot of fear about your fat intake. Sometimes when one is fearful, it is reassuring to put some quantifiable information into the discussion.

I'm have noticed that you use words like worried and concerned in relation to your fat intake, or that you wish you could do something different, and I was responding to that. Perhaps these are just expressions, and not true reflections of what you feel.

I like analyzing things and always want "one more piece of information" for my process. I never put too much credence on any one thing. My cholesterol has been high in the past and my doctor did not try to force me to take drugs for it. She offered, I said no, and she was fine with that. I refuse to feel pressured--I just want my information! :)

[rawstrength]

Wow. This thread has seen quite a digression from the original topic.
Bringing it back to not feeling full:
I always find ground flax seed to be very filling. You can incorporate it into smoothies, breads, salads and other raw recipes. Also, after some time you will feel very satisfied with light raw foods (at least in my experience).

[cherries]

Raweater: The raw food diet fights heart disease in two way, and actually uses the fatty foods that you are worried about to fight it!

1) If you are worried about your cholesterol then fill up on sat fats from coconut. Coconut oil is 47% lauric acid, the lauric acid protects apolipoprotein D from degraded by proteases. The role of apolipoprotein D is to protect and transport the HDL (good) cholesterol, the good cholesterol binds with the bad cholesterol LDL and eliminates it from your blood.

2) Or you can check out the awesome role of vitamin c in cleansing the arteries!
http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showthread.php?t=34173&highlight=cleanse+arteries
Vitamin C activates the amino acids lysine and proline, they fight the bad cholestrol! Raw food diets have lots of vitamin c and those nuts that you are eating are loaded with these amino acids which will then be activated by vitamin C to protect your arteries!
Quote from: http://www.diagnose-me.com/treat/T110125.html
"Linus Pauling discovered that supplemental L-lysine reduces the binding of lipoprotein-a, also known as Lp(a), in its binding to the walls of arteries. By preventing this action, plaque buildup is discouraged since plaque is made up primarily of Lp(a). The naturally occurring amino acids lysine and proline assist Lp(a) in its deposition and binding to stressed or injured vascular wall sites. However, when there is an extra quantity of lysine and proline in the blood stream, the Lp(a) attachment sites get blocked by these amino acids creating a "Teflon-like" layer around the lipoprotein particles. This prevents the Lp(a) from binding to artery walls, as well as helps detach Lp(a) plaque from preexisting sites in the vascular wall. This supplemental use of these amino acids can prevent plaque build-up and initiate the reversal of plaque deposits. The amount will vary between individuals. Seriously ill heart patients require 5-6 grams (5,000 to 6,000mg) of lysine daily. This strategy may be useful for treating type 2 plaque."