View Full Version : The Full Monte
06-29-2005, 11:23 PM
Ha! Now that I have your attention, I kind of have a loaded question here...I've been thinking about it this past week.
I joined Overeaters Anoymous about a month ago and feel like I'm learning a lot of valuable information regarding the whole pkg: spiritual, physical, emotional, etc...
Anyhow, I know there's people in here raw or trying to be raw that are in OA or have been so maybe they can help me...but I'll throw this question out to anyone who can maybe help.
In your opinion, is it a better idea to just keep on striving to be raw, eating as much as I want, when I want (which is an OA NO NO!!!) and just focusing on eating healthy and then maybe later on, learning to curb my appetite...
Or, to try and get the compulsive eating under control first through OA and THEN focus on eating raw. Can they work hand in hand? Should I try it together? How? Help please, I'm really at my wits end here. I'm so sick of the merry-go-round I've been on for decades, I want off. I already feel that I'm pulled in so many directions and I can see that OA is a very involved program (albeit an excellent one from what I can tell) and I just don't feel that I have the time or the energy to devote my time to both learning to live raw and spending so much time working the program.
Maybe I'm just lazy. Or, maybe I'm just tired of the whole thing and need someone to tell me an easy way out. I know, there's no easy way out, right? K. Just point me in the right direction then. Thanks. :)
PS - Someone mentioned maybe candida or parasites having something to do with compulsive eating, but that's irrelevant to the information I'm looking for at the moment. (I'll look into that too though)
06-29-2005, 11:48 PM
Well, All I can do is give you my personal opinion on this, as I have no scientific fact to base any of this on.
I joined OA several years ago, twice, in two different locations, and what it did for me.
1. made me totally obsessed with what I put into my mouth
2. gave me countless reasons to feel sorry for myself
3. Allowed me to learn new and totally creative and destructive ways to abuse my body with food, after all, I was learning from other compulsive types
4. Kept me focused on the food, not on actual healing
5. Kept me totally feeling deprived, because we were the ONLY group not allowed to have any foods at our meetings.
Now, it's not that the program doesn't work, but the basis of most 12 step programs is that you abstain. and you can't abstain from foods.
In fact one person said people with an eating disorder truly have a challenge as it is like asking any other addict to take 3 to 6 doses a day (like we are supposed to eat), and to leave it at that.
ALL other programs say to stay totally away from your addictive substance, but with food, we are teasing and tantalizing ourselves with it, over and over and over again, that is why it just doesn't work.
Now, if you take Victoria Boutenko's Idea of a 12 step program where you "know" your addiction isn't the food, (and it isn't the food) but it is the way the food is prepared ie cooked, then you can abstain from the "cooked" food, which not only gives our obsessive addictive personality something to hold on to, but also allows us to eat all the good, food that there is out there.
If you read Alissa's book and others, it says that you DO NOT LIMIT YOUR FOOD INTAKE AT ALL, in the beginning, you eat as much as you want, whenever you want, and anything that you want, don't worry about food combining, or anything like that.
I have been on almost every diet imaginable, and the RAW diet is the ONLY one I could stick to for any length of time as I absolutely was not feeling deprived, or anything like it.
I truly feel that I can and do eat anything I want. The secret is I don't want cooked food.
Now it did take me a few weeks to get to that point. But I did get there, and as long as I kept cooked food out of my body, I felt fine.
The challenge I have is, when I allow just a little bit in, then I want to gorge.
So, It's not the food, that is our challenge, it is the way it is prepared. I don't fully understand why, but what I say is this.
Take a look at the people you are learning from, are the people in your OA group, well adjusted, thin lean, healthy people who are there to help you? Or are they over weight struggling dieting on meat and unbuttered popcorn, unhealthy purging people who are still having challenges with their food.
In other words are they people you want to become like? or are they what you are heading away from?
In psychology there is a saying, "You become like the 6 people you hang out with. Whethe it be family, friends, business associates or TV people. So choose your friends wisely. ONLY hang out with people who you want to become like."
Once I understood this, I change my group of friends drastically, and it changed my life too.
I know you have to make your own decisions, but if it were me, I'd find a group of raw foodists, who are happy with thier bodies, and love what they do in life, and get together to discuss fun things like the newest raw pizza recipe and have a pot luck every month, and hike on the beach, and spend my time with them. They are out there, you just have to find them.
Good luck in all your choices.
06-29-2005, 11:52 PM
Oh my , you asked the question that I was *scared* to ask , I HAVE had an eating disorder throughout my life , first it was overeating when I was little , then SEVERELY undereating ,and always being VERY hypersensitive to food in general.......
I have the problem (even with raw) of either not eating enough or BINGING BECAUSE OF STRESS , and I tell myself "its ok ,its RAW" - but at the end I feel VERY bloated and yucky with even MORE stress , just from too much at one time , so its hard to have the problem , eat till you feel bad -yet in the end be able to say "well ,it was raw" -----honestly (yall might disagree) I feel that if you feel bad after overeating (even raw) foods ,then its not that healthy , I think there is much more to this lifestyle than the lack of heat , its about respecting your body and NOT treating it like a trash can , not that raw food is "trash" ,but you get what I mean "extra" ,ok we'll say NOT treating our bodies like compost piles ;)
ya know ,the whole "eat as much as you want" works for many people ,but I need to tweak it to my needs and say "eat RESPONSIBLY RAW" :)
oh btw , Im not saying this b/c I am concerned about weight (Im on the thinner side) but because I FEEL bad , and my lack of a gallbladder makes the problem worse....
06-30-2005, 12:11 AM
My experience with raw food ( this may or may not apply to everyone!) has been that at first, I did eat alot! I mean huge meals and snacks all the time. It has taken about 9 months for my meals to be limited to 1 plate and my snacks to be limited to 1 or pieces of fruit or a handful of nuts. I have never joined OA, but, I very well could have qualified before. So, my body, has learned (somehow!) to eat less portions, and less often.
I do want to say that at potlucks, I tend to eat more than I would at home, but I can go home afterward and not eat that much quantity-wise afterwards. Before raw, I could pig out someplace and then hours later I would consume a full meal at home!
In my opinion, if people can stick with the raw food only, over a period of time, that they would eventually learn to listen to their body. Some of us, have never listened or forgotten to listen to our bodies. I really believe that raw food diet helps us to listen and respect or bodies.
Of course, that is my opinion!!
06-30-2005, 12:42 AM
Go Raw first! :)
If you're dealing with an eating disorder, how long will it take to get that under control or behind you? Weeks, months, years? Or will it be something you deal with all your life, similar to some other addicts? (Really, not trying to depress you here--I don't know the answer to that anyhow, just throwing it out).
So, lets say it's going to take a year to overcome eating issues... might as well be eating raw while you deal with those issues instead of cooked.
Another opionion...raw food is God-made (though too often man-altered) but OA and those programs are man-created. (Please, nobody get ruffled at that--I'm not saying there isn't benefit to the groups or that they don't help anyone, I'm just talking to WoW at a particular level of beliefs.)
I'll be the first to admit this is easier said than done, but the answers are in your Bible -- prayer, submission, more prayer, treating your temple properly, and so on (things I need to remember more myself!!) The answer to prayer and submission may even be an OA group, I don't know. I don't know the answers to my own eating issues, but I put these out to you for consideration.
Bottom line, you ought to try to be as healthy as you can right now. Overeating on raw foods is better than overeating on cooked junk, yes?
Welcome back, by the way! I'm pretty much on a return trip myself ;)
06-30-2005, 12:45 AM
Hey Shannon, I'm curious... what does your heart tell you is the answer? Deep down in the stillness, away from what people tell you, which feels right to you? OA or raw, if you had to choose one over the other?
06-30-2005, 01:19 AM
BTW ,one saying that has helped me is "eat like a king at breafast , a princess at lunch and a poper at dinner " - meaning Dont wait ALL day to eat then at night pig out .......
Oh and just so you know I feel that RAW is definatley more helpful than a program that revolves around portions ,grams ect... (hence the way I said "I FEEL bad when I overeat" or "Im trying to feed a never-ending emotional hole with food" or eating out of boredom not because you "FEEL hungry", instead of the OA's "I ate too much of this or that" )-its about how YOU feel ,not what others say is "overeating",
06-30-2005, 02:03 AM
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.
Eating raw gives you energy and less need for sleep -- and, so, right there is more time for your program. ;)
I have seen lives turned around, and some saved, by 12 step programs, including OA. And, I also am working a 12 step program, so I feel qualified to respond to this. I don't think anyone who hasn't experienced it can really tell you what it can or can't do for you.
My immediate thought upon reading your questions was to wonder what your sponsor had to say about your concerns. If you're writing them here, I'm figuring that she must not have addressed them to your satisfaction. If that's a pattern, perhaps you might consider finding a different sponsor who is more aligned with you. I have other questions, thoughts, and ideas, but I don't feel comfortable having a conversation with you about this in a public forum, so I'll email you privately.
Meanwhile - hang tough. You're beautiful and you're on the right path. Remember, just because you're feeling down doesn't mean that you are down. That's one of the beautiful things you can learn in a 12 step group -- to detach from the tyranny of feelings and exist happily in the present.
- - - -
SedonaSun -- I'm really not getting ruffled here, okay?
I just want to point out that while, technically, 12 step groups are "man-created", AA founder Bill W. created it as a direct result of his spiritual awakening. The basis of the entire program is a belief in and reliance on God. This is evident in the wording of the steps, which include: " ... turn our will and our lives over to the care of God" and "admitted to God ... the exact nature of our wrongs" and "humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings" and "sought through prayer ... to improve our conscious contact with God ... praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out." I think AA (from which all 12 step group sprang and on which they're strictly based) is as much divinely inspired as are any particular denominations or church groups and are certainly more unabashedly God-based than some churches I've attended (I'm thinking of the Unitarian church here).
06-30-2005, 10:07 AM
Hey, thanks for all the replies!
RP, you said " Take a look at the people you are learning from, are the people in your OA group, well adjusted, thin lean, healthy people who are there to help you? Or are they over weight struggling dieting on meat and unbuttered popcorn, unhealthy purging people who are still having challenges with their food.
Um...that made me think. There are three of us in the group, and the other two ladies have been involved with OA for literally decades. They are both still, very much struggling. When I joined, I was eager to meet people who had overcome, but then again in a group so small, what were the chances of that??? Thanks for the food for thought, you wrote lots to make me ponder on as I was trusting you would. :) I always look forward to your posts.
VeganVixen, you said "ya know ,the whole "eat as much as you want" works for many people ,but I need to tweak it to my needs and say "eat RESPONSIBLY RAW"
Thanks VV for your thoughts, maybe that's where they COULD work hand in hand.
tracyinfo, you said "In my opinion, if people can stick with the raw food only, over a period of time, that they would eventually learn to listen to their body. Some of us, have never listened or forgotten to listen to our bodies. I really believe that raw food diet helps us to listen and respect or bodies.
tracyinfo, thanks, what I do know is this. When I went raw for 21 days, other than my potassium going very low resulting in a hospital stay (DUE TO THE MEDS I WAS ON AND MY BODY DIDN'T NEED ANYMORE!!!) I felt excellent! Not weighted down trying to digest cooked mush food. Ya, it IS all about listening to your body, isn't it.
SedonaSun, you said "Go Raw first! So, lets say it's going to take a year to overcome eating issues... might as well be eating raw while you deal with those issues instead of cooked. Bottom line, you ought to try to be as healthy as you can right now. Overeating on raw foods is better than overeating on cooked junk, yes? "
SedonaSun, thank you. You got that right girl! And you asked what feels right for me right now? Well, I'm not sure so I guess I'm moving towards both at the same time with predominatly raw food as you suggested. I am so sick of feeling sick and I know that's the only route for me. Why not kill two birds with one stone? Well, not really cuz killing birds is mean but ya know?
RawTruth, you sweetheart, thanks for sending me the info. :) I emailed you back. :)
Thanks everyone, lots to think about, you're all so helpful, I love it!
06-30-2005, 11:25 AM
In business I have learned (then found that it translates well) to get around the people that I want to emulate.
If you want to catch a cold, get around sick people, if you want to catch success, get around successful people. If you want to increase your faith, get around people with a lot of faith and learn how they did that.
Your best bet is being right here with good people wanting to reach the same place: Complete Health.
Perhaps it's time you turned your OA meeting into a "Raw Potluck" and get the ladies that have been struggling for years in the know!
I know, probably not what you want to hear, but this is what I have to keep telling myself daily....sometimes I falter....so I have to keep hearing myself say it....or read myself typing it....the answer is here....with Alissa and this gang of super support.....all we have to do is make the decision to believe and follow and we will be where they are!! (or are headed)
Just my $0.02
06-30-2005, 11:57 AM
I am very new to raw but I have experience with both OA and FAA (Food Addicts Anonymous) I never lost one ounce and I was obsessed with my food all day every day and not thinking about it is was in a negative way. I CANT eat this, I cant eat that, I cant be in this or that situation on and on. What I have noticed with raw it is more positive I dont feel obsessed with the food I feel more like what can it eat, how can I make it yummier, how can I be creative and festive with the food
does this make sense what I am trying to say?
Those groups just feel so suppressive and I finally left, although I did gain a lot of spiritual guidance, inner peace and boy did I learn a lot about myself, so in a way I guess I did get something out of all those meetings.
06-30-2005, 12:56 PM
walkin', I approached AA the same way I approach this forum. I took what I could use and left the rest. Our best selves do know what is best for us. If OA helps you emotionally and spiritually you could keep attending meetings and eat the raw way. Even eating raw if you find yourself eating an entire jar of almond butter that isn't exactly eating Raw, you know what I mean?
Speaking only for myself, I question the wisdom of denying one's addiction to food and eating whatever whenever with one's head in the sand. The emotional needs and fears that led to overeating need to be addressed at some point or they will pop up in another ugly form. I'm not suggesting that eating whatever fruits and veggies you want is a bad thing at all, but that the addiction itself isn't really food based, but fear based.
I wish there were an easy answer for you. Addiction is so sticky, and complicated, and individual. The answer lies within you. Listen to your better self. It takes time to distinguish the difference between our addict voice and our genuine self voice, but I assure you it is well worth it!
06-30-2005, 02:38 PM
This is an amazing thread ! wow! it made me think a lot as I am in the same boat basically. One thing I have realized also is that the compulsive overeating issues are all fear based, and i know i have a lot of fear in my life! I have been to OA as well, i enjoyed the steps, it opened up a lot of spiritual issues as well! i did have a group of wonderful people, some of all sizes and some struggling, some not.
In my heart of hearts though, i want to eat what God put on this earth for us to eat, and that is why my path led me to this forum and this type of lifestyle. I am not 100% RAW yet, but i know this is my path... i know it is the right way to eat as it just feels right to me. Being a compulsive overeater kinda makes it a bit more complicated but i know it will happen one day . i have faith that this is what my Higher Power wants for me.
06-30-2005, 07:27 PM
walkin', I approached AA the same way I approach this forum. I took what I could use and left the rest.
Christa, I call that the Grocery Store approach.....you don't buy everything that's on the shelves, just what you need....same thing here and elsewhere.....if you don't like it, don't use it.
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